Areas in Ireland doing well

Rightwing

zulutango wrote: »

Yes, the motorway network has brought the regional cities 'closer' to Dublin but not as close as it's brought Dundalk.

According to google maps, it's 55 mins to the centre of Dublin from Dundalk, and it's 2 hours 6 mins from Limerick. There's a big difference.

I don't know why I'm even arguing with you now, so you won't get any further replies on this issue from me. Good luck!

Let's just say, that doesn't suprise me , the hole you digging for yourself keeps getting deeper.

zulutango

Godge wrote: »

We may already be too late to create a counterweight to Dublin. The recovery over the next few years may very well be an urban-only recovery. I would hope that Limerick and Cork will be part of that but they need to growing twice as fast as dublin, putting in public transport infrastructure and housing as well as jobs in order to match Dublin. Can't really see it happening and Dublin's dominance will continue.

It'll take political bravery and vision to bring that about. Unfortunately, our electoral system means that at both a political and administrative level, all the regions are effectively pulling against each other rather than seeing the big picture. The politicians of Clare and Tipperary would be aghast if Limerick got major investment ahead of them even though it would be good for them too. They just can't see it. I really think the Dublin political heavyweights can be our allies in this because they tend to be a higher calibre of politician and are likely to understand the issue. It's simply beyond the grasp of most rural politicians.

On a side note, the amalgamation of Limerick City and County Councils could be a step in the right direction as it has created a region (with a distinct urban entity within it) of 200,000 people and that should have clout on a national level. However, the downside is that the urban entity is on the very edge of the region when it really should be in the middle of it. An amalgamation of Limerick City, County Limerick and County Clare would therefore have made a lot more sense. As it stands, the breakdown of power in the newly merged authority seems to be with the rural politicians and that's not a good thing.

Godge

zulutango wrote: »

It'll take political bravery and vision to bring that about. Unfortunately, our electoral system means that at both a political and administrative level, all the regions are effectively pulling against each other rather than seeing the big picture. The politicians of Clare and Tipperary would be aghast if Limerick got major investment ahead of them even though it would be good for them too. They just can't see it. I really think the Dublin political heavyweights can be our allies in this because they tend to be a higher calibre of politician and are likely to understand the issue. It's simply beyond the grasp of most rural politicians.

On a side note, the amalgamation of Limerick City and County Councils could be a step in the right direction as it has created a region (with a distinct urban entity within it) of 200,000 people and that should have clout on a national level. However, the downside is that the urban entity is on the very edge of the region when it really should be in the middle of it. An amalgamation of Limerick City, County Limerick and County Clare would therefore have made a lot more sense. As it stands, the breakdown of power in the newly merged authority seems to be with the rural politicians and that's not a good thing.

I agree. Limerick is the city that has most disappointed. Shannon Airport, Foynes Port, three or four rail lines, it had some of the basic infrastructure needed for a big city and never capitalised on it.

Rightwing

Simple reason being politics. Willie O Dea was a lightweight when FF were in cabinet from 1997-2013, hence Limerick practically got no jobs. The gullible and naive believed that 'the companies didn't want to go there'

Change of Government, Noonan has more weight, jobs come in. Today alone I see 140 new ones. It's all about politicians.

http://www.rte.ie/aertel/desktopxhtml/119-1.html

Godge

Rightwing wrote: »

Simple reason being politics. Willie O Dea was a lightweight when FF were in cabinet from 1997-2013, hence Limerick practically got no jobs. The gullible and naive believed that 'the companies didn't want to go there'

Change of Government, Noonan has more weight, jobs come in. Today alone I see 140 new ones. It's all about politicians.

http://www.rte.ie/aertel/desktopxhtml/119-1.html

It goes back further than that. The proper investment in Limerick was needed in the 1970s.

zulutango

Godge wrote: »

I agree. Limerick is the city that has most disappointed. Shannon Airport, Foynes Port, three or four rail lines, it had some of the basic infrastructure needed for a big city and never capitalised on it.

There's very clear reasons as to why it's disappointed and few of them are to do with the city itself. The administration of the city, in real terms, was done by four local authorities until recenty, all pulling against each other, all trying to compete for investment. Total madness, yet few could see it (and that remains the case). It led to haphazard development, incoherent planning, and ultimately the growth of the city and Midwest region was seriously curbed in spite of its excellent potential. By contrast, Cork and Galway never had this issue.

It would take a political decision at a national level (ministerial order) to fix the management of Limerick and the Midwest region but there has been only limited appetite for this as most people down here don't even see the problem (and bizarrely would actively oppose it for their own parochial reasons).

zulutango

Rightwing wrote: »

Simple reason being politics. Willie O Dea was a lightweight when FF were in cabinet from 1997-2013, hence Limerick practically got no jobs. The gullible and naive believed that 'the companies didn't want to go there'

Change of Government, Noonan has more weight, jobs come in. Today alone I see 140 new ones. It's all about politicians.

http://www.rte.ie/aertel/desktopxhtml/119-1.html

It's a bit of both really. Senior politicians can swing an investment for an area, but the companies do get a say too. Sometimes they are set on being located in a particular place, and they are likely to have good reasons for that. Government can do a lot to make other places attractive to foreign multinationals though. I'd argue that they don't do half enough.

Rightwing

zulutango wrote: »

It's a bit of both really. Senior politicians can swing an investment for an area, but the companies do get a say too. Sometimes they are set on being located in a particular place, and they are likely to have good reasons for that. Government can do a lot to make other places attractive to foreign multinationals though. I'd argue that they don't do half enough.

Correct.

There's a post on another thread (the FT - Apple one), and it highlights the reasons why Ireland is attractive, most are correct. Anyone who thinks cities like Limerick/Galway/Cork aren't attractive to companies is living on cloud cuckoo land. For other places like Castlebar, some companies certainly may not want to go there. Limerick was failed for no reason other than political ones.

chopper6

Rightwing wrote: »

Correct.

Anyone who thinks cities like Limerick/Galway/Cork aren't attractive to companies is living on cloud cuckoo land.

Why arent these "companies" going there then?

Or are you going to say it's all the fault of FF?

fricatus

chopper6 wrote: »

Why arent these "companies" going there then?

Ha?!

What about Apple in Cork, Johnson and Johnson (Vistakon) in Limerick, HP and Cisco in Galway, Genzyme and Honeywell in Waterford, eBay in Dundalk?

There are plenty more - that's just off the top of my head!

Silentcorner

chopper6 wrote: »

Why arent these "companies" going there then?

Or are you going to say it's all the fault of FF?

There are currently over half a dozen FDIs (Regeneron, Ethicon,Optel Vision, An unnamed global car manufacturer, are all new and potentially could hire 1,500 between them) recruiting in the city. I am also aware of at least 3 others who are adding significantly to their head count.

The city has made a pretty impressive FDI comeback over the last 3 years. This is because it was recognised at cabinet level that Shannon Dev were not performing. Shannon Dev were charged with attracting FDI and tourism to the mid west region. Since they were moved aside the city has experienced growth in both these sectors.

If there is a will at cabinet level to implement changes to the local government infrastructure it can have a massive impact. I believe they haven't gone far enough in Limerick, but they have moved in the right direction. Waterford and Cork cities both need boundary extensions, Limerick still needs a boundary extension...in the case of Limerick and Waterford it requires encroaching into another GAA teams realm...which is incredibly problematic for local politicians...

There is no reason why FDI cannot be more evenly disbursed between the regions, what has happened in Limerick over the last 3 years is proof.

zulutango

Silentcorner wrote: »

...in the case of Limerick and Waterford it requires encroaching into another GAA teams realm...which is incredibly problematic for local politicians...

I don't understand why they cant leave the county boundaries alone but change the jurisdiction of the local authorities. Why must local authority areas be aligned with county boundaries?

Silentcorner

zulutango wrote: »

I don't understand why they cant leave the county boundaries alone but change the jurisdiction of the local authorities. Why must local authority areas be aligned with county boundaries?

No idea, the gardai manage ok on that basis. I would be more palatable to the locals but maybe the county line has a greater purpose that I can't see.

fricatus

zulutango wrote: »

I don't understand why they cant leave the county boundaries alone but change the jurisdiction of the local authorities. Why must local authority areas be aligned with county boundaries?

You've hit the nail on the head there. A few years ago, Waterford City Council wanted to extend its boundary to take in the suburbs in south Co. Kilkenny, which is the sort of administrative change which passes without a peep anywhere else.

However the local papers kicked up an almighty fuss. Check this sickening crap out.

At the time, the GAA also came out against the proposal, and my reaction was to ask what the hell it had to do with them... after all, the local government boundaries in Northern Ireland have changed multiple times, but the six counties there maintain the old traditional boundaries for sporting purposes.

Maybe the problem is that any changes like that are perceived as one county swallowing part of another, because they're so rare and so piecemeal. If we had 30-40 district councils centred on the main local town in each area, it would make more sense, and be so different from county boundaries that nobody (or everybody!) could object to the changes.