Silence around menstruation

Vojera

I came across this little game today called Tampon Run. It's a simple game that two women wrote for a programme they were part of, and it involves running and throwing tampons at people :pac:

The blurb at the start interested me, though, where they say that there is a culture of not speaking about menstruation, despite the fact that half the population do it for a significant portion of their lives, and things like violence seem to be much less taboo than what is, after all, a perfectly normal bodily function.

This also brought me back to a conversation I had with a friend a few weeks ago about the dreadful sex conversation we had with our respective parents (just one conversation to cover your whole life and the rest was done at school), and learning a tiny amount about periods from our mothers. We recalled filling in some details from our collective experience during girls-only huddles on the school yard and the realisation that at other times of the month there might be different types of mucus and not knowing if that was normal but not really knowing if it was okay to ask.

Even now, as an almost-thirty year old who feels fairly open about that sort of thing, I'm aware that not all my friends are comfortable or able to talk about things their sexual organs do and who would even be embarrassed if someone saw a sanitary towel or tampon in their handbag.

I was wondering what your experiences are and if you encounter the same things in your life. Maybe you feel it's just something that shouldn't be spoken about, maybe it's no big deal to you at all, but I think it would be interesting to hear each others thoughts on it.

miamee

It's not something I'd talk about to anyone very often just because it doesn't come up in the conversation unless I am feeling like crap/incredibly tired/not drinking when out because of having my period, then I might mention it. It is something that I might talk to friends or my sister or mother about though and have done in the past. In fact my mother was asking me do I get painful periods the other day as my two sisters have started to get them worse than they used to (how that would effect me I don't know ). So we do talk about it (just not in front of my dad or brother!).

At my age (36) there is little I'd want to be asking advice about unless something was going awry - in which case I'd be off to the docs really

Sauve

I don't talk about it the same way as I don't have conversations with my friends about our toilet habits. There's no need for it.
If I'm doubled over with cramps or cranky with pmt I might mention it in passing, but that's it really.

Ectoplasm

Vojera wrote: »

The blurb at the start interested me, though, where they say that there is a culture of not speaking about menstruation, despite the fact that half the population do it for a significant portion of their lives, and things like violence seem to be much less taboo than what is, after all, a perfectly normal bodily function.

I think there is a kind of false premise at work here. Violence is discussed because it is extraordinary - having periods isn't. I started around age 12, I'm 35 now so that is 20+ years of the same thing happening every month. It is boring and routine and as such there isn't much to talk about.

As others said, if I am feeling particularly moody or crampy I might mention it to whomever I'm with at the time, or if something out of the ordinary did happen then I'd be talking about that, but it would be because it is out of the ordinary.

DuchessduJour

From the perspective of someone with crippling endometriosis, which affects my life in an extremely negative way, I definitely agree that there's a slightly bizarre silence around menstruation. I often find myself feeling self conscious and embarrassed when I try to explain to friends what endometriosis is, how it affects me and impacts on my life, and what I can do about it. And that is in no small part because I personally feel like it isn't really considered acceptable to talk about periods, ovulation and all related things. Even though it's so normal, even though so many people have periods and cramps and bleed every so often. So yeah, I definitely think there's something to it! That said, I remember being so nervous telling my best friend about it because I was worried he would think it was gross somehow and I knew even then that it was mostly in my head (plus he reacted so well and has been an invaluable source of support and love, both before and after I told him). But I guess it was in my head for a reason. And I certainly have had negative reactions to talking about menstruation with people, even in the context of a conversation about sex that was quite detailed and graphic, so I found that a little surprising.


Also, I love the game :pac: My high score is 431, if anyone wants to take me on

chuckles30

As someone else mentioned here...it's a bit like talking about going to the toilet...there's no need to talk about it. Maybe I've been reasonably lucky that I don't suffer particularly badly so therefore I don't feel the need to discuss it widely.

Ambersky

Ah yes how to talk about the silence. If there is silence around an issue you will usually get a lot of "What silence, I dont hear any silence !" kind of thing but of course silence doesn't necessarily mean there is an issue, so how to find out if there is one.

Once again I think shame is one of the key markers for there being something people dont want to or are conditioned not to look at.
So where do we see any evidence of shame around periods, we see it in the hiding of pads or tampons, the code words used about it, the idea that men are not to hear talk about it, the secrecy around the reason we are sometimes in pain at work or in public, the designation of women as being unclean and untouchable in some cultures, the feelings of disgust of menstrual blood over blood coming from a wound from any other part of the body and regarding periods as something dirty. There is a lot of evidence for shame and silence and thats not saying everyone acts in these ways around periods but there is evidence for these attitudes in many cultures.

Im having some difficulty posting images but some feminist artists have been doing work on this issue. Artists often like to work on issues or with images, articles, substances that others like to hide because whats not said, silenced or hidden often contains much power and can reveal more about ourselves and our inner spaces than the image considered fit for public display.

For her current exhibition at the Center of Culture and Health in Quillota, Chile, entitled "Cloths," the artist put 90 used sanitary rags on display, each embroidered with words like "destroyed" and "production." Each embroidered rag is placed in an embroidery hoop and hung up, surrounded by dangling rotten apples symbolizing ovulation.

While some were disgusted by Úbeda's choice of material, others saw poignancy in the medium. "Male blood is celebrated for being brave while ours is a shame," one visitor told the Daily Mail. "This won't change until we release our body as the first stage of political struggle."

It's been over 40 years since Judy Chicago introduced "Menstruation Bathroom" (1972), a piece where used tampons were displayed inside a trash can, and 38 years since Carolee Schneemann read from a long sheet of paper she pulled out of her vagina in the feminist performance piece, "Interior Scroll," but a woman's blood can still shake up the gallery scene even today.

http://http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/26/menstrual-blood-art-carina-ubeda_n_3499027.html

Jack B. Badd

Vojera wrote: »

I came across this little game today called Tampon Run. It's a simple game that two women wrote for a programme they were part of, and it involves running and throwing tampons at people :pac:

Both myself & the boyfriend are playing this now

indigo twist

I really don't feel that there's an issue regarding silence about it.

Countless times, I've been asked by random girls in the loo, or by colleagues or acquaintances that I don't know very well, if I have a spare tampon. No embarrassment or awkwardness on either side.

If something odd was going on with my periods, I'd certainly have no problem with chatting with my friends about it, maybe see if they'd ever experienced similar. We often chat about methods of contraception etc.

But as for directly talking about menstruation - so long as my periods arrive on time and without unusual pain, why bother talking about it? It's just normal. I don't talk about how I breathe, or how fast my toenails grow, or about my bowel motions ... similarly, so long as my periods are normal, I feel no need to chat about them.

Raminahobbin

It annoys me when I feel like I can't talk about something with my close friends, so I tend to discuss most things with them. I studied in an area when menstruation and all associated symptoms are important topics, so my friends are well used to me talking about the nitty gritty (clots and all :P ) and I like to think I've made it something we're comfortable discussing.

We might not talk about it unless something had changed in terms of symptoms but we tend to always tell each other when we've started ours. We like when we're in sync if there was anything even slightly off with them in terms of mood/quality of blood etc, they will tell me and I will tell them.

The furthest I would discuss it with someone I wasnt particularly close to would be to mention I have them though! No need for more info, but I'd happily engage a full discussion if they were interested.

kylith

Ambersky wrote: »

Ah yes how to talk about the silence. If there is silence around an issue you will usually get a lot of "What silence, I dont hear any silence !" kind of thing but of course silence doesn't necessarily mean there is an issue, so how to find out if there is one.

Once again I think shame is one of the key markers for there being something people dont want to or are conditioned not to look at.
So where do we see any evidence of shame around periods, we see it in the hiding of pads or tampons, the code words used about it, the idea that men are not to hear talk about it, the secrecy around the reason we are sometimes in pain at work or in public, the designation of women as being unclean and untouchable in some cultures, the feelings of disgust of menstrual blood over blood coming from a wound from any other part of the body and regarding periods as something dirty. There is a lot of evidence for shame and silence and thats not saying everyone acts in these ways around periods but there is evidence for these attitudes in many cultures.

Im having some difficulty posting images but some feminist artists have been doing work on this issue. Artists often like to work on issues or with images, articles, substances that others like to hide because whats not said, silenced or hidden often contains much power and can reveal more about ourselves and our inner spaces than the image considered fit for public display.


http://http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/26/menstrual-blood-art-carina-ubeda_n_3499027.html

I agree with you that it's ridiculous that some women won't go to a male cashier to buy pads, and that some men refuse to buy them for their partners.

That exhibition just sounds revolting, not because of periods, but because it's unsanitary. I wouldn't want to go to an exhibition of bloody bandages either, for the same reason.

Morag

Yes there can be a lot of silence about it, something I have tried to change with my own teens.
51% of the worlds population are women and for as along as there have been women over millinea there has bee menstruation.

Vojera

EMF2010 wrote: »

I think there is a kind of false premise at work here. Violence is discussed because it is extraordinary - having periods isn't. I started around age 12, I'm 35 now so that is 20+ years of the same thing happening every month. It is boring and routine and as such there isn't much to talk about.

I agree with you that violence is extraordinary while having periods is not, but I'd be of the opinion that in fact it is so ordinary that there's no reason for such a taboo around it.

And it's not like I'm suggesting we all sit around with our journals detailing all our cramps and and draw charts together detailing our cycles, or that it's something we should talk about every day, or even every period, but I think it's sad that there are women who would be too ashamed to say to a friend "Hey, the brand of sanitary towel I'm using doesn't seem to suit me, do you have a recommendation?" or to use any vocabulary other than "women's troubles" or, as mentioned above, to go to a male cashier to buy a completely ordinary and mundane product.

I remember a Tampax ad years ago where they had introduced a brightly coloured wrapper and the gist of the ad was that a woman and her male friend were eating sweets from similar wrappers, a tampon rolled out of the woman's bag and there was a bit of an "Oh ho ho, he nearly opened that thinking it was a sweet and saw that you had a tampon in your bag!" I know that's going back a fair while, but the message I got from that was that this was something to be hidden - no one should know you're having your period, nor should they find any related paraphernalia in your possession. Ads are definitely improving in that respect but I would also hope that with our generation becoming parents, the next crop of kids won't feel the same stigmas that a lot of women in previous generations have felt and still feel.

sullivlo

Sauve wrote: »

I don't talk about it the same way as I don't have conversations with my friends about our toilet habits. There's no need for it.
If I'm doubled over with cramps or cranky with pmt I might mention it in passing, but that's it really.

I talk about poo to my friends. Now I feel weird :pac:

In all seriousness though - I don't see the need to talk to people about my period, in the same way I don't feel the need to talk to people about breathing, coughing, farting, sneezing or any other normal bodily function. Unless they don't work or malfunction - then I will ask for advice from friends or doctors.

If I try a new brand / type of sanitary wear and like it, I'll tell my friends. If I need advice on something related to tampons, I'll ask my friends. In the same way that I would discuss if I had a chesty cough and was wondering which cough bottle they had used. I don't avoid going to male cashiers to buy tampons.

diveout

It's not just menstruation, western culture is neurotic when it comes to talking about the body.

Never understood the taboos myself but...

worded

A distant male aquantance of mine said he doesn't trust women. Anything that bleeds for 4-6'days every month and doesn't die isn't to be trusted.

Also I've heard there are two schools of thought as to the way women tend to argue and both are wrong.

Oh relax, I'm only bloody joking ....

Grabs jacket and runs to the hills

Ambersky

Kylith says
That exhibition just sounds revolting, not because of periods, but because it's unsanitary. I wouldn't want to go to an exhibition of bloody bandages either, for the same reason.

I think your reaction is simular to that of many people and is something artists are interested in. Of course art is not always trying to be pretty or decorative or even pleasant to look at, there is a long history of unpleasantness in art. Again artists are often interested in looking at and indeed exposing things we dont like to look at, things we hide, things we are disgusted by or are ashamed of. One idea can be that we are sometimes unaware of our feelings around hidden things untill we have them put up in front of us and then our first reaction can be to want to put it away again, irritation at it being there in the first place and maybe even anger at the person who exposed it. In this case we are looking not only at the art work we are looking even more at the reactions to the art, we are looking at ourselves.

There is also a long history of blood in art.

Blood in art can be associated with many feelings besides disgust it be associated with feelings of fear of pity and of admiration. Looking at our differing reactions to blood in different situations and in different presentations is also interesting.

Here on forums like this we are often trying to work out ideas in words in our heads and in print here on screen. Art or even just visual images can stimulate more of our senses and sometimes we can have a physical reaction to something that our intellect does not anticipate it can literally shake up what we thought we knew about ourselves or how we think of the world.

Here are a couple of images of blood that I would imagine stimulate differing responses and its the why of that that is interesting. I hope I can post them.
Nope seem to be having problems in that area and have tried for ages will try again later

indigo twist

Isn't that going a little bit off-topic ...?

Many of us who are perfectly comfortable talking about periods simply have zero interest in seeing menstrual blood (or any blood) as part of art. In fact, many of us have no interest whatsoever in what is considered "art" by some.

I don't need to look at another woman's used pads to be comfortable with the concept of menstruation.

Ectoplasm

Vojera wrote: »

I agree with you that violence is extraordinary while having periods is not, but I'd be of the opinion that in fact it is so ordinary that there's no reason for such a taboo around it.

And it's not like I'm suggesting we all sit around with our journals detailing all our cramps and and draw charts together detailing our cycles, or that it's something we should talk about every day, or even every period, but I think it's sad that there are women who would be too ashamed to say to a friend "Hey, the brand of sanitary towel I'm using doesn't seem to suit me, do you have a recommendation?" or to use any vocabulary other than "women's troubles" or, as mentioned above, to go to a male cashier to buy a completely ordinary and mundane product.

I remember a Tampax ad years ago where they had introduced a brightly coloured wrapper and the gist of the ad was that a woman and her male friend were eating sweets from similar wrappers, a tampon rolled out of the woman's bag and there was a bit of an "Oh ho ho, he nearly opened that thinking it was a sweet and saw that you had a tampon in your bag!" I know that's going back a fair while, but the message I got from that was that this was something to be hidden - no one should know you're having your period, nor should they find any related paraphernalia in your possession. Ads are definitely improving in that respect but I would also hope that with our generation becoming parents, the next crop of kids won't feel the same stigmas that a lot of women in previous generations have felt and still feel.

I guess I just don't agree that there is that much of a taboo about it. Just because something isn't talked about doesn't necessarily mean it is taboo. I for one have never felt stigmatised because of my period, which I call a period btw. I have no issues talking about it, or purchasing sanitary towels or tampons from a male cashier and nor do any of my friends, previous boyfriends included.

As for the Tampax ad, I genuinely think that it has more to do with trying to come up with some kind of unique selling point! Lets be honest, there isn't a whole lot to say about them.

I'm sure there are some people who are uncomfortable with talking about periods alright but I really don't feel like it is a societal taboo.

Tarzana

I guess I don't see why someone would discuss it. Periods are truly gross and I just endure them, I have no wish to discuss them. They're an unsavoury bodily function like a few others that don't get talked about too much. But this is just me, maybe others do want to talk about 'em?

EDIT: And yeah, I would get embarrassed if someone spotted an ST or tampon in my bag, it's like carrying loo roll around, I do carry them but they are well hidden!

EDIT II: But I freely mentioned period-related stuff to friends, just not in any detail. Nobody wants to hear about that.

Ambersky

Our comfort levels and our feelings about menstruation are not only expressed or measured by our ability to speak about the issue it is also expressed by our feelings about how hidden or visible we think it should be.
The OP linked to a game that involved throwing tampons around and having fun doing something I would argue is taboo by making menstruation visible in public. I take it that part of the fun of the game is an acknowledgement of a revulsion people often feel about period blood. I would argue that there is a different reaction to period blood than to blood coming out from other parts of the body.

Blood is given different attributes in different situations. Often menstrual blood is connected with cleanliness or dirtyness. In some cultures this connection to the dirtyness of menstrual blood makes women unclean while they are having their period. We may think that we are very far removed from this idea but if you look at ads for "sanitary" napkins or tampons they often reveal much about a discomfort about the reality of periods reference needing to feel fresh, clean, free, and avoid referencing blood or even the colour red.

I dont seem to be able to upload images so I will link to some as talking about reactions to different kinds of blood and menstrual blood in particular only goes so far.

Below is a link to two different kinds of blood stained material. Do you notice any differences in the feelings you have viewing them and would you think of both of them as dirty or do you have any other associations to the images.

http://https://dueseasonchildbirth.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/1eighth.jpg

http://http://www.xconomy.com/wordpress/wp-content/images/2011/10/Bandaged-Wound.jpg

Blood on hands
http://http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-voIjD5A2_9U/Tb3x3-2xC2I/AAAAAAAAABg/4gBtuUFvWLI/s1600/Wounded+Hands.jpg

http://http://www.transart.org/wilsona/files/2012/07/549124_10150925794976927_1313478735_n.jpg

Blood and sex
http://http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/sexy-vampire-portrait-female-over-black-background-35901772.jpg

http://http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc377/QuintonRoane/red_wings_blood_men_man_real_funny_period_demotivational_poster_1219295185_RE_Unsexiest_Things_About_Sex-s640x544-68901.jpg

SHARK WEEK

Dolbert

When-sa your Dolmio day?

:pac:

Roselm

Ambersky wrote: »

Our comfort levels and our feelings about menstruation are not only expressed or measured by our ability to speak about the issue it is also expressed by our feelings about how hidden or visible we think it should be.
The OP linked to a game that involved throwing tampons around and having fun doing something I would argue is taboo by making menstruation visible in public. I take it that part of the fun of the game is an acknowledgement of a revulsion people often feel about period blood. I would argue that there is a different reaction to period blood than to blood coming out from other parts of the body.

Blood is given different attributes in different situations. Often menstrual blood is connected with cleanliness or dirtyness. In some cultures this connection to the dirtyness of menstrual blood makes women unclean while they are having their period. We may think that we are very far removed from this idea but if you look at ads for "sanitary" napkins or tampons they often reveal much about a discomfort about the reality of periods reference needing to feel fresh, clean, free, and avoid referencing blood or even the colour red.

I dont seem to be able to upload images so I will link to some as talking about reactions to different kinds of blood and menstrual blood in particular only goes so far.

Below is a link to two different kinds of blood stained material. Do you notice any differences in the feelings you have viewing them and would you think of both of them as dirty or do you have any other associations to the images.

http://https://dueseasonchildbirth.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/1eighth.jpg

http://http://www.xconomy.com/wordpress/wp-content/images/2011/10/Bandaged-Wound.jpg

Blood on hands
http://http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-voIjD5A2_9U/Tb3x3-2xC2I/AAAAAAAAABg/4gBtuUFvWLI/s1600/Wounded+Hands.jpg

http://http://www.transart.org/wilsona/files/2012/07/549124_10150925794976927_1313478735_n.jpg

Blood and sex
http://http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/sexy-vampire-portrait-female-over-black-background-35901772.jpg

http://http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc377/QuintonRoane/red_wings_blood_men_man_real_funny_period_demotivational_poster_1219295185_RE_Unsexiest_Things_About_Sex-s640x544-68901.jpg

Don't know if it's just me but those pics won't open...

eviltwin

I have no problem discussing my periods but just never really have much cause to do so. I don't really see an issue where it would come up as its not something that is really that big a deal to me. I have a period, I bleed once a month, its no big deal.

I don't like blood at all but menstrual blood is not very pleasant maybe something to do with the clots in it. Its okay to say its gross - it is gross!! I hate cleaning up vomit or picking up my dogs poo too but admitting that isn't seen as a bad thing. I don't buy into the whole conspiracy of silence around periods thing, I just think its not something many women feel the need to discuss.

Morag

This site always amuses me, it's collation of the history of menstrual products, from pads to cup going back over 100 years.
http://www.mum.org/paddir.htm

UpCork

I have no problem talking about it if it comes up in conversation - it doesn't embarrass me. After all, it's a natural function. However, I probably wouldn't be the first person to bring it up in conversation, unless I was talking to a close friend and I mentioned I was feeling under the weather etc for that very reason.

I am not the of person (and believe me I know these kind of people) who feel it necessary to announce it on a Monday morning when they walk into the office.

Vojera

I'm really glad to hear there are so many people who don't have an issue with talking about periods. That isn't my experience, but it has been interesting hearing all your points of view.

fussyonion

I haven't got an issue talking about it but only if the person I'm talking to is also comfortable talking about it.

I talk easily about it with my mother and, maybe strangely for some, my partner.

If I'm having cramps or feeling down, he'll ask if it's that time of the month but he'll say "Is it your period?" and he'll leg it down the shops for chocolate for me, heh.

He has no issue going to the shop to buy tampons either and has done in the past.

I would NEVER talk about periods with my father or any other male, I don't think...I think they'd feel embarrassed.

LegacyUser

I don't mind mentioning I have my period if I have bad cramps or something or if it was unusually heavy. My friends and I have often in the past asked each other for a tampon or pad or painkillers if caught short during a period. Don't mind buying from a male cashier either. I wouldn't really discuss it regularly though unless there was something worth mentioning.

Your links are not working for me Ambersky which is a pity because I'm interested in what you are saying.

I don't mind my own but I would be more grossed out my someone else's menstrual blood moreso than I would be from blood coming from them in a wound like a bleeding finger.

I'm not entirely sure why that is. Maybe because although not initiating from the same areas obviously, it exits the body in the same general lower region as other waste products from the body like urine and faeces. I think humans are naturally hardwired to find poop and waste disgusting because of the risk of bacteria causing sickness.

I know menstrual blood is not the same, but maybe in my head I see it as a kinda icky waste product that's not needed, whereas blood coming from a wound in a different area of the body I would not be grossed out by, but concerned about because it is vital blood that is needed and shouldn't be exiting the body.
This just applies to other people's blood though cos like I mentioned I'm not grossed out or bothered by my own at all.

The reason I'm going anonymous is because of the following story. If my friend read this coming from my username she might on the off chance guess it was her.

Myself and my boyfriend were housesitting for a friend with our new puppy. She's a dog lover so puppy was allowed run about the house no problem. My boyfriend went to the shop so just me and puppy left. I notice the puppy has been out of the room for a few minutes so go to see what he's up to. Find him in the downstairs bathroom rummaging through the little bin. Gets all excited when he sees me and picks up something in his mouth. Next thing I know he's coming towards me with a used tampon dangling from his mouth.
I was disgusted by the sight. A sort of battle ensued with me trying to grab the string part and him thinking it was a game and tugging it away from me. The more vigorously he was happily chewing on the bloody part the sicker I was getting.

I eventually managed to get it off him, returned it to the bin and tidied the bin up. This was followed by extensive heaving and disinfecting of my hands.

The reason I'm telling this story though is because it is the only time I ever felt grossed out or embarrassed by period blood. So like Ambersky was saying, these grossed out feelings were there somewhere in me at the sight of another lady's blood.

I was desperate to get the tampon removed and bin tidied before my boyfriend came back, for the sole purpose of saving my good friend embarrassment. I felt like this was something that would mortify her if my boyfriend saw, so I tidied up and said nothing.
If it had been my own tampon I wouldn't have been embarrassed at all with my boyfriend seeing what happened as he would probably laugh. We've had sex on my period before so he's not grossed out by blood.

What's maybe strange though is I would have been embarrassed if another male apart from my partner, or even a female who I didn't know well saw that if it happened to me. And I wanted to also save my friend from embarrassment when this happened by hiding it occurred.

I would not have any of these feelings if it had been a bloody plaster the pup pulled out of the bin, so I think you raise some interesting points Ambersky.

I never told anyone about that, even my friend in question, but I couldn't let the pup lick me for nearly 2 days afterwards....

TheBeardedLady

I'm not a squeamish person about stuff like this so would have no problem talking about it in theory. I don't find periods or anything associated with them particularly disgusting but that's just me and I'm aware of that.


I suppose when I think about the idea of talking about periods, it'd be more how you're feeling coming up to them and perhaps commenting on whether you've pains or not and how you're not feeling completely yourself.


I teach adults English here in Spain and I have a new class. On Monday, one of my new students came in before everyone else and I asked her how she was. She told me she was fine but she'd her period and had pains this morning and had to take a few ibuprofen before coming to work and she was exhausted now. That happens to me monthly, so I just commented on the fact that I knew how she felt and that was that.


She was also wearing (very) red trousers and I was just about to say, "Well lucky you're wearing red trousers anyway!" and told myself to shut up just in time. :pac::pac: A step too far, perhaps.

I think a conversation like that is fine. Discussing it without going into gory details like you would about anything else that's making your day uncomfortable seems normal to me.

LynnGrace

eviltwin wrote: »

I have no problem discussing my periods but just never really have much cause to do so. I don't really see an issue where it would come up as its not something that is really that big a deal to me. I have a period, I bleed once a month, its no big deal.

I don't buy into the whole conspiracy of silence around periods thing, I just think its not something many women feel the need to discuss.

UpCork wrote: »

I have no problem talking about it if it comes up in conversation - it doesn't embarrass me. After all, it's a natural function. However, I probably wouldn't be the first person to bring it up in conversation, unless I was talking to a close friend and I mentioned I was feeling under the weather etc for that very reason.
I am not the of person (and believe me I know these kind of people) who feel it necessary to announce it on a Monday morning when they walk into the office.

Same here. It is what is, a natural bodily function. I don't feel the need to discuss my periods with anyone except as others have said, mentioning why I wasn't feeling great, if talking to a close friend.
Or with my doctor, if there was a problem of some sort.

Ambersky

Thanks for that story Tug a war tampon I felt a bit out there on a limb describing reactions no one else seemed to be having. Also what a good friend you are putting yourself to so much trouble to save your friend from embarrassment, really kind and really funny all at the same time. I dont know why the images wont open and I did try to sort it out but dont seem to be able to and now cant find the images again, sigh!

I think you are being very honest in your observations of youself Tug of war tampon being grossed out by blood in different situations and looking at the different reactions you have to bodily fluids coming from different parts of the body and from different people. I do think we observe the truth of this in ourselves by looking at our own reactions to menstrual blood rather than by purely analysing how we mentally think about it.
Human blood can be seen as heroic, scary, repulsive, pitiful, interesting, horrifying, etc depending on situations and how it is presented. For example the image of a warrior wearing bandages with some blood seeping through could be very simular in appearance to menstrual blood seeping through trousers and yet both blood soaked materials would probably be reacted to differently.

One of the ways we come up against our own physical reaction to menstrual blood is in how we react to either ourselves or our partner bleeding during sex. Some people wont have sex while bleeding or wont have certain kinds of sex.

Three different quotes on menstruation illustrating some of our relationships to blood women and sex,
Germain Greer says "“If you think you are emancipated, you might consider the idea of tasting your own menstrual blood - if it makes you sick, you've got a long way to go, baby.”
Mokokoma Mokhonoana says “Periods are a period when nature forces prostitutes to go on leave.”
Janette Winterson says "“When she bleeds the smells I know change colour. There is iron in her soul on those days. She smells like a gun.”

In the feminist theory of the 70s and 80s there was quite a bit of work done on looking at attitudes to menstrual blood and associations with it ranging from womens uncleanliness, unreliability, mood swings, hysteria etc on the one hand and then looking at ideas about womens power as well as links with lunar cylces, water, the earth and fertility. Some of the early menstrual conceptual art and actions comes from the 70s and 80s.
If I key in Menstruation into Amazon I come up with 1,647 books on the subject ranging from books aimed at explaining menstruation to children, to women as a target market and how business both shapes and creates attitudes to menstruation, menstruation from a feminist spiritual perspective, New Age medicine and Mainstream medical advice and lots of womens analysis and research . So its not like no one talks about menstruation or that the subject does not have sufficient material within it to be the subject of conversation writing studies or research in fact its the very way we talk about it, or dont thats a real interesting part of issue. Its also interesting the attitudes to women and that women have of themselves when they stop bleeding but thats a connected but other issue I suppose.

The book called The Wise Wound was first published in the 70s and has been through several printings http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Wise-Wound-Penelope-Shuttle/dp/0714534056
A more recent publication on the subject is New Blood: Third-Wave Feminism and the Politics of Menstruation published in 2010 http://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Blood-Third-wave-Feminism-Menstruation/dp/0813547547/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1411662944&sr=1-1&keywords=new+blood+third+wave+feminism

"New Blood" offers a fresh interdisciplinary look at feminism-in-flux. For over three decades, menstrual activists have questioned the safety and necessity of feminine care products while contesting menstruation as a deeply entrenched taboo. Chris Bobel shows how a little-known yet enduring force in the feminist health, environmental, and consumer rights movements lays bare tensions between second- and third-wave feminisms and reveals a complicated story of continuity and change within the women's movement. Through her critical ethnographic lens, Bobel focuses on debates central to feminist thought (including the utility of the category 'gender') and challenges to building an inclusive feminist movement. Filled with personal narratives, playful visuals, and original humor, "New Blood" reveals middle-aged progressives communing in Red Tents, urban punks and artists 'culture jamming' commercial menstrual products in their zines and sketch comedy, queer anarchists practicing DIY health care, African American health educators espousing 'holistic womb health', and hopeful mothers refusing to pass on the shame to their pubescent daughters.

Here is a playful little link to make up for some of the images I couldnt post
http://www.tamponcrafts.com/heart.html

indigo twist

Ambersky wrote:

Germain Greer says "“If you think you are emancipated, you might consider the idea of tasting your own menstrual blood - if it makes you sick, you've got a long way to go, baby

Yeah ... No.

I absolutely do not need to taste my own period in order to feel emancipated (serious wtf?!?!)

Should men need to taste their own semen in order to feel free ...?

Ambersky

Ambersky wrote: »

Here is a playful little link to make up for some of the images I couldnt post
http://www.tamponcrafts.com/heart.html

Bloody tampon earrings! I can imagine showing up to work with those little danglers

I'm not chatty about periods in the same way I'm not chatty about any other bodily functions unless I've something particular going on, but I've never felt disgust at them. The blood doesn't disgust me, the other changes to my functions don't disgust me and I'm not ashamed or embarrassed to buy products from male cashiers. I generally don't give them a second thought other than to curse the gods for the first day or so if I'm having a bad month and I'm low on solpadeine

I went to a girls boarding school, and being in close proximity to one another 24/7 meant a great deal of synchronicity of cycles in our house. The attitudes of most were pragmatic and practical, with a few real sufferers. There was anything BUT silence about menstruation in that environment, and periods were happily referred to by every name under the sun, the more graphic the better .

There were two girls I remember who would hide a tampon up their sleeve to go to the bathroom, as if it's very existence, never mind it's function, was shameful. They never spoke or joked about it. It struck me even then how uptight, repressed and vaguely shamed those girls were about a normal bodily function, even in an environment where literally everyone else had periods and it wasn't a big taboo.

Even though I've no real interest in talking about menstruation - it's just not that interesting tbh - that kind of thing strikes me as a tragedy, to find disgust and/or shame in your own body for one week in four. Hopefully they grew out of it.

Malari

I don't think disgust is the same as shame, although some people are using them interchangeably. I'm not grossed out by my period but I do not see the point of waving about used tampons like it's something to be proud about either! I don't need to wear used toilet paper jewellery to prove I'm not ashamed of defecating. I don't fart in front of everyone same as I don't wave a tampon around when I go into a public bathroom. Discretion is nothing to be ashamed of.

Malari

Malari wrote: »

I don't think disgust is the same as shame, although some people are using them interchangeably. I'm not grossed out by my period but I do not see the point of waving about used tampons like it's something to be proud about either! I don't need to wear used toilet paper jewellery to prove I'm not ashamed of defecating. I don't fart in front of everyone same as I don't wave a tampon around when I go into a public bathroom. Discretion is nothing to be ashamed of.

I don't know that many women feel either disgust or shame anymore - and they shouldn't. I think the perceived silence is just manners and discretion about a private matter.

The only person I know who reacts to those Always adverts is a man over 65, and he's a victim of his time when it comes to matters like that.

I think mothers should try make sure their girls have no problem with their feelings about their menstruating bodies, and I think they should promote the normality of it to their sons too. Especially boys with no sisters whose first experience of dealing with periods might be with an intimate partner. It doesn't all have to be lived publicly to be seen as normal.

eviltwin

Why oh why oh why would anyone want to wear a pair of tampon earrings? :eek:

I don't get this extreme feminism where to say you don't like periods is seen as an offence against the sisterhood. Its just one of those things we do, I don't see the big deal. Men don't have conversations about having to shave everyday and yet that's not seen as shame or fear or anything negative, why should women feel that way about periods.

Ambersky

Vogera says
I'm really glad to hear there are so many people who don't have an issue with talking about periods.

Im really glad too so Ill say a bit more.
First a question, do men not know the taste of their own semen. Honest question. I do know the taste of blood, dont most people know the taste of blood, even if its just from a bit of bleeding after brushing your teeth or sucking a wound and do women not know the taste of semen, Id guess lots do. Is it just your own blood or semen that's not to be tasted. Were getting into what goes on in sex and how people react to bodily fluids, if you cant taste your own bodily fluids how could you expect someone else to? Maybe its an advantage to be gay being faced with someone whos body has simular fluids to your own not that gay or bi women dont sometimes have issues around this too but maybe we are faced with it a bit more directly. Do heterosexuals keep it that separate, women taste sperm and men taste blood, or do they? I think they are valid questions.

You do all know that was not blood on those ear ring tampons, it showed pictures of how to apply the paint and all, the earrings were made of cotton on a string with red paint. Again the site was poking fun at and inviting us to look at our reactions in a fun way similar to the game in the OP. Guess not everyone gets the joke or sees the fun in it, but lots of people do.

I thought this was the most questionable quote Mokokoma Mokhonoana a male philosopher saying that “Periods are a period when nature forces prostitutes to go on leave.”
But so far thats not the quote people feel so strongly about or even show enough interest in that they post their reactions to it. Theres more reaction to tasting menstrual blood and the idea that that may be liberating or to wearing cotton earings soaked in red paint that look like tampons.

And nobody is saying you have to like periods extreme feminists or not . Well maybe the advertising industry but again thats another story.

Malari

Ambersky wrote: »

Im really glad too so Ill say a bit more.
First a question, do men not know the taste of their own semen. Honest question. I do know the taste of blood, dont most people know the taste of blood, even if its just from a bit of bleeding after brushing your teeth or sucking a wound and do women not know the taste of semen, Id guess lots do. Is it just your own blood or semen that's not to be tasted. Were getting into what goes on in sex and how people react to bodily fluids, if you cant taste your own bodily fluids how could you expect someone else to? Maybe its an advantage to be gay being faced with someone whos body has simular fluids to your own not that gay or bi women dont sometimes have issues around this too but maybe we are faced with it a bit more directly. Do heterosexuals keep it that separate, women taste sperm and men taste blood, or do they? I think they are valid questions.

No man I've ever been with has tasted blood in the way you mean. And I certainly don't expect boyfriends to taste their own semen just so I feel equal.

Ambersky wrote: »

You do all know that was not blood on those ear ring tampons, it showed pictures of how to apply the paint and all, the earrings were made of cotton on a string with red paint. Again the site was poking fun at and inviting us to look at our reactions in a fun way similar to the game in the OP. Guess not everyone gets the joke or sees the fun in it, but lots of people do.

Guess not. I certainly don't find it amusing. Just a bit distasteful. What's the point?

Ambersky wrote: »

I thought this was the most questionable quote Mokokoma Mokhonoana a male philosopher saying that “Periods are a period when nature forces prostitutes to go on leave.”
But so far thats not the quote people feel so strongly about or even show enough interest in that they post their reactions to it. Theres more reaction to tasting menstrual blood and the idea that that may be liberating or to wearing cotton earings soaked in red paint that look like tampons.

And nobody is saying you have to like periods extreme feminists or not . Well maybe the advertising industry but again thats another story.

I don't really understand the point you are trying to make here. What is it about that quote that you think deserves a reaction? I didn't comment because I didn't find it interesting, profound or particularly insightful.

meeeeh

Not to be embarrassed by periods it doesn't mean you have to be obsessed with them. Period is actually fairly disgusting looking and it stinks. I don't have any desire discussing other bodily functions so I don't know why I should this one.

Period art is for me in the same category as art involving urine and poo. Art doesn't have to be plesant, it is there to provoke a reaction and make us think. However our reaction doesn't have to be positive.

Ambersky

I think a couple of people are protesting about how comfortable they are on the subject of menstruation a little too much. If you dont like talking about it, or posting about it or reading about it, then dont, you dont have to.
I do like talking about it obviously but I think maybe I should stop now, Ive said quite a bit and given a few links or suggestions for other area to look to if you want to explore the issue further.

meeeeh

Ambersky wrote: »

I think a couple of people are protesting about how comfortable they are on the subject of menstruation a little too much. Maybe I should stop talking about it.

I am not comfortable in the same way as I am not comfortable discussing poo. I have no problem buying toilet paper or tampons but I have also no desire running around waving used toilet paper, I would be embarrassed by smell of sweat so I really don't know why menstruation should be any different.

Ambersky

Yes I can see that. Theres no difficulty or silencing here and nothing to discuss.

meeeeh

Ambersky wrote: »

Yes I can see that. Theres no difficulty here and nothing to discuss.

Actually there is plenty to discuss when something doesn't feel right, to inform yourself about differtent problems, about pregnancy, not to be embarrassed to go to the doctor when needed. But I am not a woman because I have menstruation so l really don't know why it should be some bloody badge of honour.

mariaalice

I have a matter of fact attitude to my body and body functions, The thing that bothered my about periods would be why is it lasting more than 7 days when all the information I was given said they lasted a week ( admittedly this was from a free book my mother sent off for from a packet of sanitary towels ). That was a very long time ago now
How come sanitary towels and tampons are not better, how come they sometimes leak no matter how you use them, why hasn't someone invented a better product. I have never discussed these things with anyone because well its not the sort of issue you would bring up in conversation.

mariaalice

mariaalice wrote: »

I have a matter of fact attitude to my body and body functions, The thing that bothered my about periods would be why is it lasting more than 7 days when all the information I was given said they lasted a week ( admittedly this was from a free book my mother sent off for from a packet of sanitary towels ). That was a very long time ago now
How come sanitary towels and tampons are not better, how come they sometimes leak no matter how you use them, why hasn't someone invented a better product. I have never discussed these things with anyone because well its not the sort of issue you would bring up in conversation.

Mooncup. Available in Boots.

http://www.mooncup.co.uk/

Ambersky

mariaalice said
I have never discussed these things with anyone because well its not the sort of issue you would bring up in conversation.

Thats exactly the point. All the rest of the stuff is just raising the issue, getting people to look at their own feelings, get past some stuff, bring it out into the open make it a topic and maybe even learn a little.
Menstruation is not a comfortable topic, it does get relegated to the doctors surgery and kept safely medicalised, not that health isnt a very important factor but its not the only one.

How comfortable you are or not will have its most obvious impact and expression in how you feel having sex while having a period and in how you have sex at that time .
Its an issue most women have had to deal with often privately in her own head perhaps, not feeling comfortable bringing it up in conversation.

Theres no dictate that you have to be fully comfortable with anything or that you have to like everything just being open enough to listen to people who are comfortable is enough.

http://www.womenshealthmag.com/sex-and-relationships/sex-while-menstruating
Theres some more ideas and perspectives here

We've learned that our periods should be private.

But even if you're nervous about it, your guy is likely unfazed by the idea of having sex during your period. According to a survey on MensHealth.com, it's women, not men, who close up shop during that time of the month. More than three-quarters of the guys polled said they'd love to have period sex, although 54 percent would do it only with a serious girlfriend or wife

http://www.xojane.com/sex/6-very-real-concerns-about-period-sex-how-to-deal

Like I said, I was thoroughly skeeved out by the idea of period sex because, you know, we live in a culture of bodily shame that makes us all believe that our periods render us toxic waste plants of vile putridity. But this is not the case! Periods are kind of not really that gross! They are just things our bodies do!

And if we’re being perfectly honest, sex is kind of gross when you think about how it’s two sweaty bodies bumping into each other until they both emit fluids. So…if you’re OK with sex, you should probably be OK with sex plus periods.

meeeeh

I will openly admit sex during periods is not for me, except maybe the last day. I hate dirt on sheets, I have to wash myself after any sex anyway because I can smell sperm or sweat and I think periods are really smelly. I'm uncomfortable around people with incontinence issues. And while I have no problem changing nappies, I prefer if my partner changes bandages and deals with any kind of skin or teeth issues on our kids or dogs. I would find a sex with previously sweaty man complete turn off. I got a bit less anal over the years because I can actually fall asleep without having shower in the evening. And I must be absolutely exhausted for not to remove make up before going to bed.

So yes I can freely admit I have issues with sex during periods but it's not just periods.

Malari

Sex during periods is not for me either. I actually just remembered having this conversation with a bunch of girlfriends when I was about 20, so it's not something I'm only comfortable talking about later in life.

I brought it up with my boyfriend and he'd prefer not to have sex during my period either. We talked about the details! Like Meeeeh, I dislike the mess and the smell.

strobe

Tbh I find it weird that people find it weird that girls don't talk much about their periods. What's there to talk about? Don't tend to talk much about bowel movements or ear wax or runny noses in detail either from what I can tell...