**Spoilers** Series 8, Episode 4 - "Listen"

martingriff

The smile when he said everyone has the same nightmare was a bit psycho. Good episode

Mr.Saturn

I'm unsure how I feel as to Clara essentially creating The Doctor. Then again, Clara merely served as conduit, so, in essence, The Doctor created himself.

The_Valeyard

Mr.Saturn wrote: »

I'm unsure how I feel as to Clara essentially creating The Doctor. Then again, Clara merely served as conduit, so, in essence, The Doctor created himself.

That explains the ego.

Lord TSC

BuffyBot wrote: »

I get the funny feeling we might see the restaurant scene again, possibly from another POV. We have the unseen waiter talking about the water. Normally TV shows don't have extras speak..and we never got to see the head. Plus we have the breaking glass (perhaps the jug being dropped!)

Or it could be nothing...

Or it could be....

Angron

*an old friend >_>

That did pop into my head at one point too though :P

martingriff

I wazs listening to Clara's speech again and the bit where she says

"And one day you’re gonna come back to this barn and on that day you’re going to be very afraid indeed. But that’s okay, because if you’re very wise and very strong fear doesn’t have to make you cruel or cowardly. Fear can make you kind".

Was she talking about them landing now or the

3 doctors in the barn in The Day of the Doctor

.

Also if Clara now knows that Orson is her great gandson or grandson is this not damaging the timeline and maybe causing it to change

Angron

martingriff wrote: »

I wazs listening to Clara's speech again and the bit where she says

"And one day you’re gonna come back to this barn and on that day you’re going to be very afraid indeed. But that’s okay, because if you’re very wise and very strong fear doesn’t have to make you cruel or cowardly. Fear can make you kind".

Was she talking about them landing now or the

3 doctors in the barn in The Day of the Doctor

.

Also if Clara now knows that Orson is her great gandson or grandson is this not damaging the timeline and maybe causing it to change

I think it was from them landing at that time. While it did show the War Doctor, I don't think she knew the barn was specifically the same one from DOTD, and that showing the War Doc was just for us.

martingriff

Angron wrote: »

I think it was from them landing at that time. While it did show the War Doctor, I don't think she knew the barn was specifically the same one from DOTD, and that showing the War Doc was just for us.

But did she not say he will come back here the time he will most afraid that could not have been now but during DOTD

The_Valeyard

More importantly am I going to appear in season 8 at all!!!

Angron

martingriff wrote: »

But did she not say he will come back here the time he will most afraid that could not have been now but during DOTD

The whole point of the episode was fear though, the Doctor was going a bit crazy trying to find this "bogeyman", nearly killing himself in the attempt on the station at the end of the Universe. Besides, she was never in the barn in DOTD (that I remember), nor even saw it.

Angron

Actually, I think in a way she was referencing what was going on with the Doctor at that moment, and was inadvertently drawing a parallel with the Doctor and The Moment.

The One Doctor

A very poor episode. The 12th Doctor really isn't showing much form.Clara seems to be taking over as the hero while the Doctor makes wisecracks in the background. It's so far removed from the previous series as to be a joke. Even my girlfriend, a massive longtime Doctor Who fan, hasn't seen anything really 'wow' about this series.

On this episode, I'd expected some scary stuff. Instead, it's a loose pile of stupid cliches. It ended up being as scary as Peppa Pig and not nearly as well plotted.

martingriff

I have only just realised we do not know what was under pinks sheet. Will that be a thread for the series

NyOmnishambles

Angron wrote: »

The whole point of the episode was fear though, the Doctor was going a bit crazy trying to find this "bogeyman", nearly killing himself in the attempt on the station at the end of the Universe. Besides, she was never in the barn in DOTD (that I remember), nor even saw it.

She was in the barn in DOTD, if she wasn't there the three doctors would have pushed the big red button on The Moment and killed everyone on Gallifrey

It was her intervention that prompted Smith's doctor to be all clever and come up with the pocket universe option

Angron

Ah right, it's been a while since I've watched the episode so I didn't remember her being in there.

Sonics2k

I kinda find Mr Pink a bit annoying. Can't see the charm or even the chemistry between him and Clara.

Capaldi was brilliant, so great to see him finally setp up into the role.

The waiter with the water will have go play into it again.

scream

The One Doctor wrote: »

[...]Clara seems to be taking over as the hero while the Doctor makes wisecracks in the background[...]

I felt the say way to be honest. I hope to see him throw his weight around a bit more soon enough. The show is called 'Doctor Who' after all, not 'Doctor Who's Companion'.

scream

scream wrote: »

I felt the say way to be honest. I hope to see him throw his weight around a bit more soon enough. The show is called 'Doctor Who' after all, not 'Doctor Who's Companion'.

She won't be around for long. The impossible girl really is becoming impossible. She created a fixed point in time (imo) by hiding under Doctor Jnr's bed.

martingriff

scream wrote: »

I felt the say way to be honest. I hope to see him throw his weight around a bit more soon enough. The show is called 'Doctor Who' after all, not 'Doctor Who's Companion'.

But do not forget the doctor should be dead this is a new set of regenerations. He is scared and not knowing what is going on. Remember Smith ringing Clara at the end of EP. 1 to help him until he is ready

pixelburp

"why do you have 3 mirrors? Why don't you just turn your head?"

With 6 pages of chat, I figured that episode must have earned it, and I was right; that was easily the strongest Dr. Who episode in a good few years. Series 8 has arrived, and not a moment too soon.

Chilling, funny, touching, thoughtful, it really showed that while Moffat's propensity for complex, puzzlebox plotting infuriates many - some of the vitriol has been a bit OTT - he can write scenes and moments so genuinely emotional it's hard to feel annoyed with him too long. Maybe it was laid on a bit thick here and there, but the two standout scenes in the children's home and the barn were gripping. Plus, while Moffat doesn't always provide answers on a plate, when he does - such as the little moment revealing why the War Doctor chose that particular barn - he nails it.

Does it lessen the notion of the Doctor, that his formation was in part due to Clara's accidental journey to his boyhood? I don't think so, all she does really is give a scared young boy some comforting words, albeit while inadvertently giving him nightmares about the dark. Frankly I think it enriches the Doctor, giving him far more layers than 'OMG I killed the Time Lords!'. It's long overdue that the Doctor got some more interesting characterisation beyond the melodramatic survivor's guilt.

It was also the episode that may have finally sold the 12th Doctor to me. Again, one of Moffat's strengths has always been the comedic writing and with an acerbic wit like Capaldi, the 'gentle' barbs between himself and Clara are golden. He's still a bit of a dick, but more thoughtless than the slightly callous version we saw in 'Into the Dalek'. I'm also suspecting this Doctor's actually insane. Not goofy or a self-styling madman, but genuinely a bit unhinged.

"What's wrong with your face? It's all eyes; why are you all eyes? Get them under control."


I also loved Capaldi's speech about fear being a superpower, it's such a Doctor'esque speech and a fantastic sentiment really.

aunt aggie

WomanSkirtFan8 wrote: »

i think so. Makes perfect sense when you consider the events of "Day of the doctor" when the doctor is there with "The Moment"

But if the barns on gallifrey, i thought everything on gallifrey was time locked and/or in a pocket universe.. im confused.. Any explanations?

Frank Lee Midere

scream wrote: »

I felt the say way to be honest. I hope to see him throw his weight around a bit more soon enough. The show is called 'Doctor Who' after all, not 'Doctor Who's Companion'.

The thing is, though, as far as I understand it she has always saved him.

pixelburp

aunt aggie wrote: »

But if the barns on gallifrey, i thought everything on gallifrey was time locked and/or in a pocket universe.. im confused.. Any explanations?

It's not that explicit where the barn is: sure it's possibly Gallifrey, but I'm sure the Time Lords had a well-populated Home system; who's to say the Doctor didn't grow up off Gallifrey? Given the War Doctor leaves the final siege to visit that barn, located in what seemed to be a barren, deserted world, my guess is that it was another planet, a casualty of the war.

Wibbs

At this stage she's making Bad Wolf Rose look awfully lazy.

flazio

pixelburp wrote: »

It's not that explicit where the barn is: sure it's possibly Gallifrey, but I'm sure the Time Lords had a well-populated Home system; who's to say the Doctor didn't grow up off Gallifrey? Given the War Doctor leaves the final siege to visit that barn, located in what seemed to be a barren, deserted world, my guess is that it was another planet, a casualty of the war.

But surely you'd have to be on Gallifrey to destroy Gallifrey?

Frank Lee Midere

flazio wrote: »

But surely you'd have to be on Gallifrey to destroy Gallifrey?

I personally thought that barn didn't really exist. I mean it's a barn with a button which can destroy the world. Why keep that kinda thing in a barn?

scream

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

I personally thought that barn didn't really exist. I mean it's a barn with a button which can destroy the world. Why keep that kinda thing in a barn?

Why haven't I thought of that until now? What was that button doing in a barn in the middle of nowhere? Did I miss something?

pixelburp

flazio wrote: »

But surely you'd have to be on Gallifrey to destroy Gallifrey?

Well it was a sentient world-eater superweapon; I had presumed it didn't matter where you fired it from, so long as you gave it the right target. Otherwise, the Doctor himself would have been unlikely to escape Gallifrey in time.

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

I personally thought that barn didn't really exist. I mean it's a barn with a button which can destroy the world. Why keep that kinda thing in a barn?

No, the Doctor stole the Moment from Gallirey's vaults and took it to the barn. iirc, you see him carrying the weapon in a sack, and just places the McGuffin on the floor. There's a whole scene where the Time Lords visit the vaults to find an empty plinth on which the Moment once sat.

Das Kitty

He stole the button from the armoury on Gallifrey and brought it to the barn.

Question is, if the barn was originally next to the boarding house, where'd the boarding house go?

Maybe Moffat is making Lungbarrow canon...

martingriff

scream wrote: »

Why haven't I thought of that until now? What was that button doing in a barn in the middle of nowhere? Did I miss something?

The war doctor brought it there after he stole it from the citadel in gallifrey. The moment is a sentient weapon and can be in the form of what the person wants it to be in.