Mustang 2015

Voodoomelon

My V8 does 27MPG at 120km/h. For the Ecoboost to do 28MPG is pretty rubbish.

bear1

I just checked and it's coming back as having a combined mpg of 34.. Which is very respectful

mylittlepony

Saw a mustang car in Kerry over the rose of tralee festival week.
It was silver with blue stripes.

Idbatterim

Would many people spending €67k on the V8 really be put off by the motor tax? It's a bit like being concerned about the mpg figures. Might as well offer a 2.0 TDCi version for people concerned about those things.

I dont think 67k is a lot of money to spend on a car, if you are going to have E2300 motor tax. Bear in mind that they tax also hugely influences depreciation...

I mean someone spending 200-300k on a car, the tax is probably a total irrelevance, at 67k, a lot of people on average enough money would spend in that ballpark...

The new 7 series is going to have a 321 bhp 0-100 in 5.8 straight 6 petrol engine with E390 motor tax! and the 730D is going to be E200 LOL

So while luxury cars have been annihilated on old system, the people who can afford to buy them now are laughing and when they filter down to many of us, who couldnt currently afford them, so will we... *Assuming prices fall as currently, with the low motor tax, they may well hold their values better...

bear1

OSI wrote: »

That's not the figure the dealers are giving.

Took it from autocar:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/first-drives/2015-ford-mustang-convertible-23-ecoboost-review

At the bottom it mentions it's combined mpg.

Idbatterim

the 428 bmw coupe from 2013 0-100 in 5.8, did the same 0-100 in a 2L twin turbocharged engine... 154g/km...

ION08

Tigger wrote: »

us or uk gallon?

UK, i converted at the time. (worked out at about 13l /100km)

iirc it was around the 18mpg (US) mark on the OBC

Eric Cartman

tax and fuel economy aside , and no matter what kind of power you get out of town turbo 4 bangers etc..

Nothing will compete with the satisfaction of how a V8 drives. I eagerly await the depreciation so that I can purchase a V8 one of these for half nothing.

ION08

Eric Cartman wrote: »

tax and fuel economy aside , and no matter what kind of power you get out of town turbo 4 bangers etc..

Nothing will compete with the satisfaction of how a V8 drives. I eagerly await the depreciation so that I can purchase a V8 one of these for half nothing.

I somehow doubt they will cost half nothing. Which such a cult following and not many of them about, I'd say they'll hold their value quite well.

Eric Cartman

ION08 wrote: »

I somehow doubt they will cost half nothing. Which such a cult following and not many of them about, I'd say they'll hold their value quite well.

after 3 year id be surprised if the V8 was holding above 25k in tax land. after 5 id say 15-18k would take it easily and then ill strike.

ION08

Eric Cartman wrote: »

after 3 year id be surprised if the V8 was holding above 25k in tax land. after 5 id say 15-18k would take it easily and then ill strike.

I dunno, 15-18k for a 5yr old GT seems a bit unlikely to me.

That being said, I sure hope you're right cos I'd be eyeing one up myself at that price :cool:

Eric Cartman

ION08 wrote: »

I dunno, 15-18k for a 5yr old GT seems a bit unlikely to me.

That being said, I sure hope you're right cos I'd be eyeing one up myself at that price :cool:

if it was the only option id say it would hold, but sure look at say the s class, desirable car , the s320cdi holds infinitely better than the s500 . People in this country just want to drive what a car looks like, not the whole package . aslong as the ecoboost sells well there'll be plenty of those to keep price conscious buyers eyes away from the v8. I think it'll have a holding point similar to M cars / AMG models where getting one below 10k will take a long wait, but the fall to sub 20k will be quick enough.

Third_Echelon

I'm moving to California in November, and ordering one of these will be the first thing that i do!

Having looked around various reviews online and articles etc, I'm leaning towards to the 2.3T ecoboost. It is really catching on in the states as a very good engine in the Mustang and an alternative to the V8.

You can't get the performance pack or finish on the V6, so that only leaves the 2.3 vs the V8. The price on the 2.3 over there is very good and obviously i'll do a test drive on both, but i think it'll be the 2.3 for me....

Now, just need to look into shipping it back to Ireland in a few years when I come home :-)

ba_barabus

I see literally no reason why you'd want a 2.3T over a V8 in the states.....

ION08

ba_barabus wrote: »

I see literally no reason why you'd want a 2.3T over a V8 in the states.....

exactly! When in Rome!

Third_Echelon

ba_barabus wrote: »

I see literally no reason why you'd want a 2.3T over a V8 in the states.....

price.... once you start adding all the bells and whistles (using the when in Rome approach), the price goes up very quickly on the GT 5.0 v8....

td2008

Eric Cartman wrote: »

after 3 year id be surprised if the V8 was holding above 25k in tax land. after 5 id say 15-18k would take it easily and then ill strike.

Not a chance unfortunately - be just shipped out to the uk for the rebate?

ba_barabus

Third_Echelon wrote: »

price.... once you start adding all the bells and whistles (using the when in Rome approach), the price goes up very quickly on the GT 5.0 v8....

The problem will be compounded by the fact you'll be shipping LHD car to Ireland without the engine that would make people want it.

Price is a good argument alright but I'd wait and see what days you're being offered in the states on the V8

Third_Echelon

ba_barabus wrote: »

The problem will be compounded by the fact you'll be shipping LHD car to Ireland without the engine that would make people want it.

Price is a good argument alright but I'd wait and see what days you're being offered in the states on the V8

Well I wouldn't be selling it in Ireland. I'd be driving it, and the 2.3 would be a lot easier to run in Ireland compared to the V8.

I'll be doing test drives in a few models and see what the craic is, but the technology in the 2.3 interests me. The caveman might come out when i hear the v8 though!

ba_barabus

OSI wrote: »

Not even the Americans think like that anymore. The large majority of Mustangs being sold in the states now are with the EcoBoost engine.

Am I not mistaken in saying that the 2.3T gives the same fuel economy returns on test as the v8 and isn't particularly clean emissions wise.

That's from memory so could be wrong

Marcusm

OSI wrote: »

Not even the Americans think like that anymore. The large majority of Mustangs being sold in the states now are with the EcoBoost engine.

I'd be interested to see if the split between fleet/hire and owner/driver sales was the same as the overall split. I did 1,000 miles in a Mustang 2.3T in May and found it plenty powerful and responsive. Not the greatest interior. My usual driving is fairly evenly split between a turbo 4 and a v8.

Oafley Jones

OSI wrote: »

Not even the Americans think like that anymore. The large majority of Mustangs being sold in the states now are with the EcoBoost engine.

I'd love to see the breakdown of that. I'm guessing that If you're stuck in a red neck area they'll still be all about the v8. Anywhere else, the younger population in particular will not look fondly on the larger engine.

Brasso

http://www.mocgb.net/forums/showthread.php?69575-MOCGB-Show-meet-Dunton-27-09-15
Looks likes there's at least one RHD in the UK now. A yellow convertible V8.

ION08

Brasso wrote: »

http://www.mocgb.net/forums/showthread.php?69575-MOCGB-Show-meet-Dunton-27-09-15
Looks likes there's at least one RHD in the UK now. A yellow convertible V8.

Would seem to be a demo model as it's not plated up.

Wouldn't be my favorite colour but at least it will match the rear UK reg plate

Leonard Hofstadter

OSI wrote: »

Not even the Americans think like that anymore. The large majority of Mustangs being sold in the states now are with the EcoBoost engine.

No that's very much untrue, the Americans fortunately haven't completely lost it just yet, 52% of current model Mustangs have an engine worthy of the Mustang badge over there.

More interesting though is the fact that the percentage of proper Mustangs bound for the UK rises to 70%, no doubt once the new VED rules come into play in 2017 (and all Mustangs will only have to pay £140 or about €190 in VED after year 1 - even those with the proper engine) that percentage will rise even higher.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-ford-mustang-v8-is-more-popular-among-mustang-buyers-in-europe-than-it-is-in-the-us-2015-8?r=US&IR=T

As for fuel consumption, I think it was What Car? that found in the real world the V8 only does 5 mpg less than the Ecoboost, despite the official gap being almost 15 mpg (and that's a big gap considering that the proper engine is claimed to do only 21 mpg!).

Jesus.

captainspeed wrote: »

No that's very much untrue, the Americans fortunately haven't completely lost it just yet, 52% of current model Mustangs have an engine worthy of the Mustang badge over there.

So only around half? Around half have the smaller engines so. That is a big departure for Americans to be fair

Henry Ford III

2.3T is very much a proper engine. This V8 snobbery is very odd indeed.

Jesus.

Well said Henry. 100% agree

ION08

Henry Ford III wrote: »

2.3T is very much a proper engine. This V8 snobbery is very odd indeed.

Yes it is a proper engine but it's not a muscle car engine and the point is it doesn't fit in with the muscle car ethos!

ION08

OSI wrote: »

But the Mustang is not a muscle car. It is a pony car.

It is if it's an entry level model with a 2.3 under the bonnet!

It's the 5.0 V8 that makes it a muscle car, which most the term most people will want associated with their pride and joy despite not having the actual "muscle" engine.

Henry Ford III

ION08 wrote: »

It is if it's an entry level model with a 2.3 under the bonnet!

It's the 5.0 V8 that makes it a muscle car, which most the term most people will want associated with their pride and joy despite not having the actual "muscle" engine.

V8 snobbery again.

2.3T has over 300bhp - which is plenty. The V8 gives a bit more power, and obviously sounds better, but costs more to buy and run.

Not too many classic V8 Mustangs came with 300+bhp from the factory.

Uno my Uno.

Drove the 5.0 V8 briefly this summer and really liked it. It handles well but not spectacularly and the interior is nice but not luxurious. However the noise and the power when you put your foot down was phenomenal and is what the mustang is all about and that was what impressed me. If you wanted something that drives excellently, is speedy and well appointed and comfortable you'd be better off with a golf gti.

I don't know if the Eco boost can provide the same experience as the V8 but I wouldn't buy one if it couldn't.

ION08

Uno my Uno. wrote: »

Drove the 5.0 V8 briefly this summer and really liked it. It handles well but not spectacularly and the interior is nice but not luxurious. However the noise and the power when you put your foot down was phenomenal and is what the mustang is all about and that was what impressed me. If you wanted something that drives excellently, is speedy and well appointed and comfortable you'd be better off with a golf gti.

I don't know if the Eco boost can provide the same experience as the V8 but I wouldn't buy one if it couldn't.

It also looks absolutely stunning!

hi5

No sequential indicators for Europe though:(

ION08

hi5 wrote: »

No sequential indicators for Europe though:(

No tri-bar LED DRLs either

Im sure these can be hacked/retrofitted which would be first on my "to do" list

MTBD

Henry Ford III wrote: »

V8 snobbery again.

2.3T has over 300bhp - which is plenty. The V8 gives a bit more power, and obviously sounds better, but costs more to buy and run.

Not too many classic V8 Mustangs came with 300+bhp from the factory.

LIGHTNING wrote: »

The only reason American muscle cars went with V8's originally was due to the fact that smaller engines couldn't produce the power. That is no longer the case.. but that said I'd only get a Mustang with the V8 :pac:

I don't get this. It's not snobbery. As far as I'm concerned the engine is the most important part of the car. And not just the amount of power it produces but how it produces it. I'd much prefer have a loud, rumbly, thirsty 280bhp V6 than a quiet and characterless 2.3T 4 pot with 300bhp.

There's more to a driving experience than pure power, especially in cars like these. They're about the noise and the look as much as anything. A big loud V8 will make you smile every single time you put your foot on the throttle. A 2.3 Ecoboost will not. It's as simple as that, not snobbery. If you take that away from the car you are taking a massive part of its appeal away imho.

Uno my Uno.

+1

I hadn't experienced it before but V8 left an impression! You can feel it right through the car!

jimgoose

Uno my Uno. wrote: »

+1

I hadn't experienced it before but V8 left an impression! You can feel it right through the car!

The last Mustang I drove was a 1965 4.6l V8. It had about half the power of my own car but burble-burble-burble! Oooh yeah!

Skylinehead

Pretty astonishing how the Americans got so little power out of so much displacement.

hi5

They got plenty of power when they wanted, the 1959 Chevy Impala family car had 315 BHP from a 5.7 litre v8, and that's before you start looking at the muscle cars from the 60s.
But that's not why they had large engines.
Americans traditionally think nothing of driving huge distances and for this you need reliability and comfort. A large car with a large simple engine gives you this as you can drive all day long at 70 mph with the engine barely ticking over and completely unstressed.

Big Nasty

That's it. Wasn't until '72 I think that the whole emissions thing kicked in. Went from 350cu blocks with 300bhp + to the same blocks with half that. The previous 72 blocks had power and torque. Post 72 just had the torque.

Henry Ford III

MTBD wrote: »

I don't get this. It's not snobbery. As far as I'm concerned the engine is the most important part of the car. And not just the amount of power it produces but how it produces it. I'd much prefer have a loud, rumbly, thirsty 280bhp V6 than a quiet and characterless 2.3T 4 pot with 300bhp.

There's more to a driving experience than pure power, especially in cars like these. They're about the noise and the look as much as anything. A big loud V8 will make you smile every single time you put your foot on the throttle. A 2.3 Ecoboost will not. It's as simple as that, not snobbery. If you take that away from the car you are taking a massive part of its appeal away imho.

Who said the 2.3T is quiet and characterless? If you've owned both the 4il and the V8 fair enough, but you can't have.

Henry Ford III

An interesting review......

http://jalopnik.com/2015-ford-mustang-ecoboost-the-jalopnik-review-1695429065

Voodoomelon

"It’s an illuminated horse on the ground — what’s not to like about that? If it’s too frivolous for you I suppose you could swap out the scrim and have it project a metric-to-English conversion chart or something."

ba_barabus

I can't listen to it right now but I'm sure it's like a lifetime of deep Guinness farts placed together in sweet but brutal symphony

TBi

LIGHTNING wrote: »

That is the reason why you go for the V8. Word's dont do it justice.

You could get a similar sound from a 4 cylinder if they used a cross plane crank shaft. But that would really eat into the sales of the v8.

Leonard Hofstadter

MTBD wrote: »

I don't get this. It's not snobbery. As far as I'm concerned the engine is the most important part of the car. And not just the amount of power it produces but how it produces it. I'd much prefer have a loud, rumbly, thirsty 280bhp V6 than a quiet and characterless 2.3T 4 pot with 300bhp.

There's more to a driving experience than pure power, especially in cars like these. They're about the noise and the look as much as anything. A big loud V8 will make you smile every single time you put your foot on the throttle. A 2.3 Ecoboost will not. It's as simple as that, not snobbery. If you take that away from the car you are taking a massive part of its appeal away imho.

+1 million.

You've explained it far better than I possibly could have. It is absolute complete and utter drivel to say that the Ecoboost with its piddly little four cylinder engine is appropriate for a Mustang. It could have a million horsepower for all I care, wrong is wrong is wrong.

Sure by the logic that the Ecoboost is worthy of a Mustang by virtue of its 305 bhp you might as well stick a bloody six pot diesel into it because they can get over 300 bhp these days as well:rolleyes: or a three cylinder engine or any old yoke into it. It's like saying there is no difference between a 130 bhp petrol and a 130 bhp diesel - on paper it is the same but the difference is night and day, it's a completely different driving experience.

The V8 is what makes a Mustang a Mustang. With a four cylinder it could be any other (relatively) affordable fast coupé. The V8 is the centrepiece of the car, that loud, shouty, bellowing, burbling V8 is what makes it special. V8s have real character that four cylinder engines simply do not have (and never will have). Precious few cars have V8 engines (sadly) and even fewer V8s sound that good. It is to a Mustang what a straight six is to a BMW, it's just right and nothing else will do. The V8 is what gives it the soul and character, it's what makes it stand out from virtually every other car on the road. You don't buy a Mustang because of the handling or the interior plastics, you buy it because of its legendary reputation and that shouty V8. The Ecoboost is mutton dressed as lamb.

I can only assume that those who think a piddly little four cylinder is OK in a Mustang have never had the pleasure of driving a car with a V8 under the bonnet.

And anyway, the buyers have spoken, even in these more eco-conscious times the majority are still buying the proper engine, which incidentally is getting a power boost to 500 bhp next year (as if the 412 bhp it currently produces wasn't enough:D).

MTBD

TBi wrote: »

You could get a similar sound from a 4 cylinder if they used a cross plane crank shaft. But that would really eat into the sales of the v8.

No, you cannot. You simply cannot replicate that sound with a 4 cylinder under any circumstances. It will sound loud and farty at best. You have TBi as your username, and engine which im sorry to say despite Alfas best efforts in the 4C sounds nothing as good as the old V6. Its abrasive and extremely loud but not particularly pleasant. And that is probably as good as any 4 cylinder will sound.

Here is Roush's effort at making it sound good. (It sounds pathetic stock btw)

Here is their V8

You'd have to be very tone deaf to say that they sound anything alike. Look at the smile on that guys face as he drives away in the v8. That is the effect of a V8 engine sound! It makes you smile all the time and its not just the sound, its the way the power goes through the entire car smoothly and powerfully. You will not have that with the ECOboost. That's all I am saying. I'm not saying its a bad car or that people can't like it for what it is but it will not satisfy someone who has been stung by the V8 bug.

Pugzilla

MTBD wrote: »

No, you cannot. You simply cannot replicate that sound with a 4 cylinder under any circumstances. It will sound loud and farty at best.

You sure about that?

jimgoose

Pugzilla wrote: »

You sure about that?

Yes, the crossplane R1 sounds fantastic. But by no stretch of the imagination does it evoke anything like a big-block pushrod V8. Alack and alas, these days are gone. One more time, with feeling: