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Spiders!!!
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Deleted User wrote: »Keeping spiders is a slippery slope also, first spiders, butterflies cats, dogs, then humans.
Kidnapper in the making.
Just after i posted this, i saw my cat go into hunt mode, and he just killed a monster spider. I have another one in my living room.
I'm thinking to borrow the neighbours cat for a few weeks
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Ok, but in their way they still feel it. Just because it's different from our way, it doesn't mean it's less relevant. To me it's akin to saying that simply because someone speaks a different language what they say isn't as important as what we do.
No it's not. Like I said it is widely believed that spiders and other invertebrates do not feel pain at all. Of course this is a theory. But so is evolution
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Just reading this thread is making me feel a bit woozy, I am absolutely terrified of spiders, a stupid fear that was passed on to me from my Mum.
I know they can't hurt me but they just scare the bloody life out of me.
However...
I WOULD NEVER, EVER, EVER KILL A SPIDER!!
I can't believe so many of you do! What an awful thing to do, to kill a completely harmless creature who is just going about his daily business
Very cruel and completely unecessary.
I just put a big glass vase over them until someone can come over and rehome them at the bottom of the garden for me.
Please don't kill them, it's so mean0 -
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salamanca22 wrote: »No it's not. Like I said it is widely believed that spiders and other invertebrates do not feel pain at all. Of course this is a theory. But so is evolution
Well... That's not really true. Fair enough, in times past it was assumed that invertebrates feel no pain (probably back at the same time that evolution was still only a theory, which if course, it no longer is) but that has been majorly brought into question thanks to research over the past decade or so.
So much so that the Irish and UK (all jurisdictions) welfare acts have left room for invertebrates to be included if and when the research is complete enough to indicate that invertebrates require protection because of a higher pain perception that has historically been assumed.
My emphasis is on the word "assumed" because that's all it was... It's not too long ago that it was assumed that higher animals felt no pain, leading to grossly torturous things being done to dogs, horses etc. Indeed, it's not that long ago either that it was assumed that children felt no pain due to having undeveloped nervous systems! Again, this led to terrible things being done to them.
But all of that has changed due to research, evidence, and enlightenment. As it stands, there is nobody that can definitively say that invertebrates feel no pain... Indeed, Queen's University in Belfast are leading the field in research into pain perception in invertebrates, their work means that it's only a matter of time before lobsters join the only current protected invertebrate, the octopus. Once lobsters are there, it's potentially only a matter of time before they're joined by other arthropods and invertebrates.
Even if they do feel pain "differently" to us, how can that possibly excuse causing them unnecessary pain? I'm brought back to that utterly insightful and welfare-world changing quote by the grandfather of animal welfare, Jeremy Bentham:
"The question is not, Can they reason? nor Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?"0 -
Well... That's not really true. Fair enough, in times past it was assumed that invertebrates feel no pain (probably back at the same time that evolution was still only a theory, which if course, it no longer is) but that has been majorly brought into question thanks to research over the past decade or so.
So much so that the Irish and UK (all jurisdictions) welfare acts have left room for invertebrates to be included if and when the research is complete enough to indicate that invertebrates require protection because of a higher pain perception that has historically been assumed.
My emphasis is on the word "assumed" because that's all it was... It's not too long ago that it was assumed that higher animals felt no pain, leading to grossly torturous things being done to dogs, horses etc. Indeed, it's not that long ago either that it was assumed that children felt no pain due to having undeveloped nervous systems! Again, this led to terrible things being done to them.
But all of that has changed due to research, evidence, and enlightenment. As it stands, there is nobody that can definitively say that invertebrates feel no pain... Indeed, Queen's University in Belfast are leading the field in research into pain perception in invertebrates, their work means that it's only a matter of time before lobsters join the only current protected invertebrate, the octopus. Once lobsters are there, it's potentially only a matter of time before they're joined by other arthropods and invertebrates.
Even if they do feel pain "differently" to us, how can that possibly excuse causing them unnecessary pain? I'm brought back to that utterly insightful and welfare-world changing quote by the grandfather of animal welfare, Jeremy Bentham:
"The question is not, Can they reason? nor Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?"
Fair enough, I need to brush up on my invertebrate biology :P0 -
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![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
This discussion has been closed.
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