City and Guilds; Testing and Verification

zombiekiller

I will be starting this course soon and the instructor told us that the course has a 70 percent failure rate. Has anyone done the course and what problems if any did they run into.

2011

zombiekiller wrote: »

I will be starting this course soon and the instructor told us that the course has a 70 percent failure rate.

I would find that hard to that figure hard to believe. I think the instructor is just trying to scare you.

Has anyone done the course and what problems if any did they run into.

I haven't done it, but the syllabus is easy to work out & there is nothing very complicated.

zombiekiller

He seemed serious enough he said he was shocked at how little some of the people know about testing.He told us that numerous people walk out on the first day.
I think he said at the end there is twelve written questions and 12/12 is needed. Then there is a job and the full relevant testing and inspection forms have to be filled out with not even a full stop missing from it. Then a job has deliberate faults put in and 10/12 have to be found.

2011

zombiekiller wrote: »

He seemed serious enough he said he was shocked at how little some of the people know about testing.

I have noticed that many good and experienced electricians have little or no testing understanding and/or experience. However the whole point of a "Testing & Verification" course is that participants get a chance to learn exactly what is required.

A qualified electrician that has a reasonable grasp of the regulations should not have a problem once they are prepared to ask questions when something is not understood. The problem that I see is that people are afraid to ask question for fear that they will look "stupid". The time to ask is during the course. Fairure to do so when not 100% clear can result failure of the exam!

He told us that numerous people walk out on the first day.

That says more to me about the way the course is run than the ability of the students.

I think he said at the end there is twelve written questions and 12/12 is needed. Then there is a job and the full relevant testing and inspection forms have to be filled out with not even a full stop missing from it. Then a job has deliberate faults put in and 10/12 have to be found.

Ask him for some sample questions & ask anything here if you like.

brightspark

are you doing it in Baldoyle? The marking is very strict, i did it in January, only 2 out of 8 passed on the first attempt, the others had to repeat the final module.

frankmul

I heard today that the reci course is no longer good enough. Is that correct?

solargain

Incorrect , the Reci course is now advertised as accredited

2011

solargain wrote: »

Incorrect , the Reci course is now advertised as accredited

I did both the old RECI and the ECSSA testing courses several years ago.
Neither of these courses meet the required criteria.

This might be what frankmul is referring to.

17larsson

That sounds like the course in Baldoyle you're describing. He started the course off with those scary sounding stats with us as well. All the class passed that week though.

RECI are doing a proper accredited course now as well

zombiekiller

brightspark wrote: »

are you doing it in Baldoyle? The marking is very strict, i did it in January, only 2 out of 8 passed on the first attempt, the others had to repeat the final module.

Yes Baldoyle was the final module fault finding.

17Larson; hopefully my class will be the same.

2011; Its only a six day course and the final two days are tests i think. So theres not a lot of time to learn.

Someone asked how to prepare for the test and was told to read the regs and reci books back to front.

2011

zombiekiller wrote: »

Yes Baldoyle was the final module fault finding.

This part should not be difficult for an electrician.
Most faults can be found by carrying out continuity tests (belling out) and by visual inspection.
I would expect there will be issues with a neutral or two connected to the wrong neutral bar causing the RCD to trip.

The usual suspects.

2011; Its only a six day course and the final two days are tests i think. So theres not a lot of time to learn.

Yes, but you already know what the tests will be.

Regarding the following:
1) Earth fault loop impedance
2) Insulation resistance test
3) RCD test
Do you understand the principle of these tests?

In terms of study, it should be possible to get your hands on test record sheets and ETCI completion certificates. Once you know how to fill these out it is half the battle.

There must be someone at your work that carries out the testing normally. Why not have a chat with them?

Someone asked how to prepare for the test and was told to read the regs and reci books back to front.

Not a very helpful reply!
However most electricians know more about the regulations than they think they do just from doing the work.

It does not take very long to read the section on testing in ET101, so my advice would be to read it.

Here is some good reading material that should help you:
http://eleceng.dit.ie/kkelly/ESE/ETCI%20Rules%20-%20Earthing.pdf

brightspark

To clarify the final module which had most fails was a board which had a consumer unit, a few sockets, lamp holders etc mounted on it and you had to identify breaches of the regulations.

Fault finding was included in the periodic testing form completion section.

From what I recall the instructor mentioned nearly all of the breaches included on the test during the week.

The written test where you have to get 12 out of 12 is "open book" so no excuses for getting failing that!

Any competent electrician should have no problem finding the faults for the periodic testing module, (will be an open circuit, short circuit, short to earth, reverse polarity, or high resistance connection).

And if you can't fill the ETCI form flawlessly on the day of the test, when will you?

zombiekiller

That doesnt sound too bad at all.

brightspark

This covers a lot of it

http://www.ecollege.ie/site/liu/electrical_notes/LL227.pdf

the final module is the first section in that PDF "visual inspection" pages 5-8, obviously the test situation cannot include everything mentioned, but with that you should have no problem finding all the visual defects, not just the 10 required to pass.

The testing will be easy if you are comfortable using a meter, especially a MFT (multi function tester) know when to use the ohm ranges or mega ohms, set it to impedance etc. and know what it means if you get "wrong" readings due to the deliberate faults.




The instructor also would appear to be just "waffling" (sorry can't think of a better word) discussing various aspects of the regulations with the group and then would say what he had just said was important for the exam, so pay attention.

Don't worry it's not a complete disaster if you fail, you will probably get an opportunity to repeat the failed module a week or two later.

zombiekiller

Just passed it there. only 3 out of 8 of us passed. And the instructor said this was the last course as solas are trying to take phases 4 and 6 back from the colleges.

2011

zombiekiller wrote: »

Just passed it there. only 3 out of 8 of us passed. And the instructor said this was the last course as solas are trying to take phases 4 and 6 back from the colleges.

Congratulations.

Was my previous post accurate?
Have you any advice or tips for others?

brightspark

Congrats

Par1

zombiekiller wrote: »

Yes Baldoyle was the final module fault finding.

17Larson; hopefully my class will be the same.

2011; Its only a six day course and the final two days are tests i think. So theres not a lot of time to learn.

Someone asked how to prepare for the test and was told to read the regs and reci books back to front.

A 6 day course with 2 days of tests?...what accreditation do you receive upon completion? what is the course used for and why do you need it?.

2011

Par1 wrote: »

A 6 day course with 2 days of tests?...what accreditation do you receive upon completion? what is the course used for and why do you need it?.

It is mandatory that all RECs have at least one tester.

Par1

2011 wrote: »

It is mandatory that all RECs have at least one tester.

Yes i agree but i just don't see why it takes 6 days with 2 days of tests, was the test free or how much does it cost?

Well done on passing it by the way

Par1

Par1 wrote: »

Yes i agree but i just don't see why it takes 6 days with 2 days of tests, was the test free or how much does it cost?

Well done on passing it by the way

Apologies 2011 that previous post was aimed @ Zombiekiller

brightspark

Course takes four days. Two days a week.

Testing takes most of a day, split into two groups, so two days are allocated for the test.

Think the cost is over €600, free to those on social welfare etc.

Par1

brightspark wrote: »

Course takes four days. Two days a week.

Testing takes most of a day, split into two groups, so two days are allocated for the test.

Think the cost is over €600, free to those on social welfare etc.

Oh right..sounds a bit long for my liking, id rather do a 2 day course with RECI its only €350. €600 is a bit OTT if i do say so myself.

zombiekiller

2011 wrote: »

Congratulations.

Was my previous post accurate?
Have you any advice or tips for others?

I found it handy enough but some of the other lads failed on the visual test which was a mock board with 12 faults on it and 10 faults had to be found. Wrong type and size of breakers and cables, no sleeving on t-e earth, stuff like that. There was a written test with 12 questions all found in the regs except for one which was your own common sense. And the pratical was handy aswel as it is a three cubicle job to be tested.
Although i passed Id say it would a challenge to be landed on a multi-story factory or officeblock and test the whole lot.

17larsson

Five out of eight qualified electricians failed after a six day course? I would understand a few failing after the two day course as there is not much time to get your head into it if you haven't done much testing before. But I thought the whole point of the six day version was to make sure you had enough time to understand everything

brightspark

17larsson wrote: »

Five out of eight qualified electricians failed after a six day course? I would understand a few failing after the two day course as there is not much time to get your head into it if you haven't done much testing before. But I thought the whole point of the six day version was to make sure you had enough time to understand everything

Some "qualified" electricians I've met don't know what range to set a MFT for the various tests. i.e. Didn't know when to use the ohms scale or the megger ohms!

But I think most failures are on the visual checks, probably due to lack of observation. Perhaps the real world, where maybe things like insulation stripped back too far are commonplace, leads some to become "blind" to breaches of regulations?

Or else they simply don't know the regs :eek:

zombiekiller

Yeah most of the failures were on the visual. Everyone was comfortable using the meters.

el diablo

Did that course a couple of years ago. Not sure why it's got such a high failure rate. .

2011

Lets use the sticky.
Thanks.