Dog is allergic to something, we can't figure out what

Frog Song

Our terrier itches a lot, his ears and eyes are sometimes red and itchy. More so though he itches all over and he has lost hair.

He's been dosed for fleas (regularly), rarely washed with dog shampoo and when he is it's a natural one that the vet recommended, we've cut out all treats bar a bit of oily fish (recommended by the vet), his food was changed to the Prescription Allergy z/d (again recommended by vet), he's outside during the day and in from 5pm on, I no longer use chemical cleaning products, vacuum regularly, wash his bed regularly and he has a plastic kennel (told they're better for allergies).

Allergy test came back inconclusive really, he said it could still be a number of things. When he's very bad we have steroids that the vet gave us but he's rarely that bad (when he is his ears drive him crazy). But that's not something I want to have to do for the rest of his life, it can't be good for him.

This has been on and off since we've had him so 5 years, at times it's worse than others. The only thing I can think of is that it's stress. He's very attached to me and doesn't like when I leave but I have to work. My parents live next door and often pop in to say hello to him, they say he rarely barks or cries during the day and is always happy when they see him so he isn't that out of sorts. Possibly it's something outside like grass but we've tried keeping him in all day too and there was no change.

Anyone able to share their ideas on what it could be? The vet seems to think it's just something he'll have to live with but it's obviously bothering him so I'd really like to get to the bottom of it. Are there better foods out there perhaps? We were told the Prescription Diet allergy food is the best by the vet but it isn't helping so I'm open to other foods (he was on Select Gold first and James Wellbeloved over the years). Or if anyone has been in a similar situation with their dog and has any advice that would be great, thank you.

Hooked

I take it the food is Hills?

Some vets, not all - have an agenda and push a particular brand.

My fiancées parents have a terrier that was scratching herself raw. My advice (and this is certainly not a 'catch all' solution) was to try a better kibble and feed some raw, as we do.

A month later and she's almost back to her best.

We have 2 raw fed (with Markus Muehle kibble morning feed) huskies that are thriving on a fresh, varied diet of raw chicken, red meat, fish and vegetables / rice. We supplement with salmon oil and natural yoghurt with raw bones every few weeks for healthy teeth and gums.

If it were me, I'd look at the food first.

jgarry28

I would first tackle his diet and see if this helps.

I would say firstly cut out the oily fish for a couple of days. I added some cod liver oil to my dogs diet but it was making him ill. I think he was taking in too much oil as the food he had already probably had enough of what he needed. Perhaps your guys might be the same and the extra oil in the food is making him itchy.

If there is no change then I would say cut out feeding him his current food & fish altogether and try him for a couple of days on plain brown rice mixed with plain chicken. If he is still scratching after this at least you can discount diet as a factor.

Apart from that I would say brush his coat regularly with a good brush as his hairs might have pollen trapped in there.

Finally avoid washing him too much maybe only once every 3-4 weeks and only if you think he needs it.


Dogs scratch normally anyhow but I think this year has been particularly bad. My guy was very itchy and I know a couple of the neighbours dogs were the same.

A few times he was particularly bad and I gave him half of a human antihistamine tablet as a last resort and this did the trick. I did some research on the net first and found loads of people had given antihistamines to their dogs with no ill effects however its up to you whether you want to try this with your dog as I wouldn't have thought your local vet would recommend it.

aonb

Our JRT X had an allergy that flared up every now and then randomly, with no trend/reason we ever found. Brought him to multiple vets. ALL tests, skin scrapes etc came back inconclusive. Incredibly frustrating. He used to be really fed up when the itching was bad. All the vets muttered at some stage about wheat/grain allergy.

We tried EVERYTHING - special washes/dips/diets/lotions & potions.

Im not saying this was the solution, but it HUGELY made a difference - his itching was really effectively gone - we started to feed him ONLY home cooked food. Twice a week I would cook up a big pot of brown rice into which I put chicken thighs and some carrots or sweet potato and topped with water. Boiled. Stripped the chicken off the bone, chopped it up small and put the pot in the fridge. All my dogs moved over to this diet, and definately Pepper stopped itching, farting was a thing of the past, and poohs were definately smaller/less stinky! I varied the chicken to mince (lean) or fish (frozen whiting Tesco) alternative weeks.

OP I would really really really recommend to you that you start immediatly with diet. SO MANY dogs on here are allergic/affected by their kibble. Take a month or 6 weeks, try the rice/chicken (or something else chemical/additives/grain free that people on here recommend) and see if that helps. I hope it does - its so easy to fix when you find a diet that isnt causing allergies. Good luck!
(p.s. unless he is rolling in something nasty, he shouldnt be washed very often/much - let natural oils on his skin/coat)

Outkast_IRE

Diet is the usual place to start. I cant expand anymore on what the two previous posters have said but with my own dog diet made a big difference to her skin condition.

Frog Song

Thanks so much, wish my Vet had mentioned the diet more than recommending the one he sells. He ever once mentioned trying the above foods instead. I'll give it a go, really appreciate it.

Also he's very rarely washed, only when he rolls in something disgusting which isn't often so we try to keep away from that, thanks.

Will post an update in a few weeks, thank you.

Hooked

Frog Song wrote: »

Thanks so much, wish my Vet had mentioned the diet more than recommending the one he sells. He ever once mentioned trying the above foods instead. I'll give it a go, really appreciate it.

Also he's very rarely washed, only when he rolls in something disgusting which isn't often so we try to keep away from that, thanks.

Will post an update in a few weeks, thank you.

Give it 4-6 weeks.

And remember...

Raw bones = ok

Cooked bones = no way!!!

Frog Song

Hooked wrote: »

Give it 4-6 weeks.

And remember...

Raw bones = ok

Cooked bones = no way!!!

I'm aware of that but thank you

earlyapex

I know you said you wash your dog rarely but it could still be his shampoo as it happened to my dog.

My dog had red itchy skin after washing him in vet bought "dog shampoo". It took us a while to figure it out but that was it, once we switched him to human shampoo, he was perfectly alright again. It sounds like your vet is pushing a lot of product on you too. Rinse your dog very very well.

I hope it clears up either through diet or shampoo change.

ike

I took our JRT off Hill's foods after about a year as he was constantly getting itchy and red skin, switched to Clinivet 3 years ago and never looked back.

He gets a good mixture of raw meat and fish as well...

DBB

Hi OP,
I've a lot of experience of a breed that's famous for skin problems, so I'll expand a bit on what's been said above, particularly aonb's post, as it's probably very important.
There are a few common things that cause itchiness in terriers/dogs, and many of the really common ones can be quickly and immediately controlled, as long as you know what it is you're trying to control. And finding out what you're trying to control means trying to get rid of likely causes, and seeing what happens.
Now, I'm NOT saying that any of these are the answer for your dog, but they simply MUST be tried in an attempt to eliminate them, bearing in mind that some of these are top of the list when it comes to itchiness.

One likely cause of itchiness, particularly in the summer months, is harvest mites, or chiggers. They are everywhere. They sit on blades of grass waiting for a chance to climb onto any warm-blooded animal that passes. They climb on board, and essentially burrow a tunnel into the deeper skin layers in order to feed, causing severely itchy spots on the skin. They usually make their way up the body from the feet, across the chest and groin, around the bum and base of the tail, and may be visible as orange staining in these areas (harvest mites are bright orange in colour). Note that some orange staining around the foot and mouth is normal enough, and not caused by harvest mites, but by a naturally-occurring fungus which can itself get out of control given the right circumstances. Mite-staining will tend to be differentiated because of the tell-tale areas they tend to infest the body, as above.
We can treat dogs for harvest mites, but due to their ubiquity, once we get rid of one infestation, we have to prepare ourselves for the next infestation... and that's what controlling harvest mites is all about... battling each wave of them every couple of weeks, particularly in the summer months and until the first severe frosts. They can be killed off using spot-on treatments such as Advocate, but whilst this stuff can be useful to keep infestations from becoming huge, I haven't found it that good for killing off a heavy infestation. I've always found a good drench in TacTic (which is, essentially, sheep dip) to the affected areas to be the best way to get rid of the little feckers, and this needs to be repeated every couple of weeks. Indeed, after every trip outside the dog might be sponged down with a mixture of water, Apple Cider Vinegar, and some boric acid powder, as this makes the coat and skin really unpalatable for mites and may be enough to control the little buggers without having to go for chemical warfare as often.

Another very common, very likely, all-year round cause for itchiness is food allergies. Many dogs are allergic to cereals, particularly wheat. Some dogs are allergic to corn/maize, some may react to oats or barley. Some even react to rice, no matter whether it's brown or white.
A less likely cause of allergy to food is the meat itself.. chicken and beef are at the top of the list of meats most likely to cause an allergic reaction.
All of these need to be eliminated completely from your dog's diet for an absolute minimum of 6 weeks. No cereals, no rice, no chicken, no beef.
Instead, your dog needs to be fed novel proteins, the type that you don't get in every dog food: venison, rabbit, game bird, turkey, fish.
How on earth can you do this? Well, aonb's post comes to the fore here, although I'd substitute the brown rice for potatoes. Home cooking of novel meat, green veg, carrots, and spuds will eliminate all of the common food-related allergens from his diet.
Another option is to feed him on a commercially-prepared wet food, such as Naturediet, Rocco, Lukullus, or Rinti (only go for the varieties without rice or pasta... which may mean that you can't feed Naturediet at all, now that I think of it... there's rice in it!) These are all available for pretty good value from www.zooplus.ie, or www.zooplus.de is better value again, but you'll need to use Google Chrome to translate it unless you can speak German!
If you find an improvement, then in 6-8 weeks' time, you can gradually re-introduce chicken, then later, beef, to see do either elicit a reaction. If they don't, then you know you're safe to feed both of these again (not as a dried food though), which is handy as they're reasonably cheap and easiest to get.

Finally, a huge, huge cause of itchiness/allergies in dogs, and another compelling reason why putting him on a wet diet (home-made or commercial) is crucial to the process of trying to eliminate the common allergens, is storage mites.
ALL dry dog food contains storage mites. All of it, whether you pay €10 or €70 for a bag of it, whether the vet sells it or not, whether it's marked "hypoallergenic" or not.
Storage mites are vital to eliminate from his environment, and this cannot be done as long as he's fed any dry food.
What often happens is that the dog reacts to "his food", the vet puts him on a "hypoallergenic diet" (dry food), and gives him steroids to stop the itching. This appears to work, the dog stops itching. But as soon as the steroid course is finished, and despite the fact that the dog is on "hypoallergenic" food, the dog starts to itch again... why? Because he has continued to be exposed to the little mites that are living in his fancy food.
There's only one way around this... no more dry food, at least, not for the next 6 weeks minimum.

One thing to note, someone said to stop feeding him fish. In fact, it is unlikely he's allergic to fish, really unlikely (a reaction to cod liver oil is not a reaction to fish... cod liver oil is just too high in certain vitamins to be fed too often, and I've seen many a dog feel sickened when fed too much of any fish oil... think how you'd feel if you lowered a load of oil down your throat?!)
Oily fish is really, really good for the skin (and joints, and mental health), containing all of the ingredients needed to balance immunity, help cell-repair, and get rid of harmful chemicals from the system. As it happens, it seems that spuds are pretty good purifiers too. So, I would be aiming to feed him several portions of oily fish a week (sardines or pilchards, available in Lidl, Aldi or Tesco... opt for fish preserved in brine, water, or tomoato sauce, not fish preserved in vegetable oils as these fight with the good oils in the fish), with spuds and veg as your fillers... a terrier is not expensive to feed in this way.
If you feed him the proprietary, high-quality tinned foods that I mentioned above several days a week, and throw in your own home-concoction a couple of times a week, you should get a nice balance going, but critically, you will be eliminating some of the biggest guilty parties from his life in one fell swoop.
Remember that you will also need to be careful about treats... no biscuity-treats, no gravy, no beef or chicken treats, nothing that contains wheat or other grains, or chicken or beef. If you want to add some stock to a home-made stew, use Knorr stock-pots or equivalent as they contain no wheat, but Oxo cubes do.

All of this will obviously need you to throw yourself into this new project OP, but it does sound to me like you're willing to give anything a shot! I hope you get at least some success by following these steps, do let us know how you get on!

Heskey1971

Hi,
95% of dog foods have chicken in them either as a main ingredient or as an add-on for taste.

I have a St Bernard that was getting her ears syringed out every 2 months,her ears were constantly sore and the drops didn't help and being honest,the vet didn't either.
It was by chance in a pet store that we were told about chicken being an allergy for dogs and its in their ears that in can really show.
In 3 years since we took her off all chicken products she hasn't had one infection.

Markus Muhle at zooplus do food with zero chicken in it

keno-daytrader

Heskey1971 wrote: »

Hi,
95% of dog foods have chicken in them either as a main ingredient or as an add-on for taste.

I have a St Bernard that was getting her ears syringed out every 2 months,her ears were constantly sore and the drops didn't help and being honest,the vet didn't either.
It was by chance in a pet store that we were told about chicken being an allergy for dogs and its in their ears that in can really show.
In 3 years since we took her off all chicken products she hasn't had one infection.

Markus Muhle at zooplus do food with zero chicken in it

I had the same issue with my dog, took me a while to get her on the right food, she was in agony with itchiness.

I put her on Acana Grasslands or Ranchlands or Taste of the Wild seira mountain, as all these are lamb based and grain free. She instantly stopped scratching when put on the right food.

I think vets get a big commision on the hills food they peddle or any other brand in the practice, so I wouldnt listen on that advice.

I think you just have to find the right food. :cool:

Dubl07

DBB wrote: »

I've always found a good drench in TacTic (which is, essentially, sheep dip) to the affected areas to be the best way to get rid of the little feckers, and this needs to be repeated every couple of weeks. Indeed, after every trip outside the dog might be sponged down with a mixture of water, Apple Cider Vinegar, and some boric acid powder, as this makes the coat and skin really unpalatable for mites and may be enough to control the little buggers without having to go for chemical warfare as often.

I've tried to find boric acid powder locally without success, DBB; any sources that you can recommend? Likewise TicTac - is it available to the non-farming community?

DBB

Dubl07 wrote: »

I've tried to find boric acid powder locally without success, DBB; any sources that you can recommend? Likewise TicTac - is it available to the non-farming community?

Boric acid should be easily available in an agri supplies or agri/veterinary/rural pharmacy? Though I seem to remember someone saying they had got it in Tesco before? Could that be right?!
TacTic should be available from vets, though I think they can be reticent about handing it out as it's pretty powerful and kinda gross!

angeldaisy

Boric acid is often kept hidden in chemists, and you will need to ask them for it. That said not all will stock it. rural or vet pharmacies will be your best bet.

Frog Song

DBB thank you so much for your detailed post. Thankfully he loves spuds, veg etc so he'll be delighted! I've taken all of your advice on board and started lastnight so fingers crossed.

Thanks everyone, really appreciate it. I'll update in a few weeks.

Dubl07

Frog Song wrote: »

Allergy test came back inconclusive really, he said it could still be a number of things. When he's very bad we have steroids that the vet gave us but he's rarely that bad (when he is his ears drive him crazy). But that's not something I want to have to do for the rest of his life, it can't be good for him.

Thanks for starting this thread. My pup is itchy too and while it seems to be an allergy to medication, I'm looking at her diet as well. It's horrible to see her nibble herself raw if she gets her e-collar off.

WRT the allergy tests, I had the human version done a few years ago and was subsequently told that there were likely to be false negatives because I was on steroids myself at time of testing. :mad: So I don't know if your terrier was in a similar situation.

muddypaws

There are no tests for a food allergy, the only way to work out if that is what it is, is to feed a total exclusion diet for 6 weeks, which is incredibly difficult to do in a non-laboratory environment, as the dog may pick up a bit of food dropped on the floor in the home, out walking etc.

Demonical

Dubl07 wrote: »

I've tried to find boric acid powder locally without success, DBB; any sources that you can recommend? Likewise TicTac - is it available to the non-farming community?

DBB..great post, very informative.

I just discovered harvest mites myself for the first time this year. I started walking the dogs in an area I never did before and it turns out the place was full of the little buggers! I couldn't figure out how I was getting bitten, I was covered in bites..I thought it was mosquitos at night or bed bugs, had the whole house stripped and sprayed but was still getting bitten as I was still walking in this new area. It wasnt until about 4 weeks ago I noticed little salmony pink patches around the whiskers on one of the dogs muzzles. Googled to see what it could be and came up with harvest mites; put 2 and 2 together and realised where we were picking them up. Anyway, the jack russel was covered in them, poor thing had them everywhere and I noticed this at 6pm of a saturday. They only place that was open the following day was the petstore and I needed something to sooth her and/or get rid of them and I bought "Beaphar Flea spray for cats and dogs". I wasnt expecting much but it worked a treat on them. I sprayed it into my hands and rubbed onto the parts most infested. There was a marked difference within an hour, not as many little salmony spots at all.

TLDR -- Beaphar Flea spray works for Harvest mites, easier to obtain than TIC TAC and boric acid powder, should be available in local pet store.

DBB

That's great to know that the Beaphar works, will defo get some for the doggy first aid stash.
I picked up harvest mites last year too so you have my every sympathy... By jeezus they are extraordinarily itchy, aren't they?
For anyone who's trying to figure out why they have red, itchy bumps around their ankles, groin, armpits and boobs, chances are they're harvest mites!

aonb

DBB wrote: »

That's great to know that the Beaphar works, will defo get some for the doggy first aid stash.
I picked up harvest mites last year too so you have my every sympathy... By jeezus they are extraordinarily itchy, aren't they?
For anyone who's trying to figure out why they have red, itchy bumps around their ankles, groin, armpits and boobs, chances are they're harvest mites!

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Bike 5

Hi All

Iv been following this thread and it looks really daunting with the amount of suggestions remedies etc. In my opinion it is one of 2 problems:
1. Diet
or
2. Environment

The diet change needs to be strict and done over a 6-8 week period id suggest a tripe only diet and see how that works out. I wouldn't bother with meat or fish because of proteins also grains are a no go. the dog is going to be miserable and loose weight but if it has to be done then its the only way.

I found that a lot of the time its not the diet and its environmental. People are right when they say mites could be the cause as they are everywhere. Id be more inclined to say simple things invisible to the human eye are to blame like cement based products, traffic dust/dirt and also general airborne containments obviously i can not prove it as i simply do not have the facility's.
Here is a scenario that i would like people to consider...if you lay on the footpath with no clothes on naked rolled over and stood up - would you be itchy?..i think so. Now im not saying its a direct cause but i think a daily exposure to this environment does contribute and its something we are not seeing or have any tests for (as far as im aware). People might think im mad but i sincerely think im right. Over the years i have tried elimination diets and not many worked for me or for others i spoke to. People blame food - there's all sorts of pros and cons for both dry processed food and also Raw food (a topic im not going to get involved with now). The pet food industry is unregulated so as soon as its regulated then i would speak about it.

From the above DBB made some excellent points. I also note that the vet done some skin scrapings also on the dog so i can only assume its not a mite allergy i should imagine something would of shown. If the symptoms disappear whilst using the steroid then is it not better for the dog to be itch free? I fully understand the implications of using steroids but at the same time it is a viable option as a last resort. I appreciate the dog is a terrier therefore Atopica may be an option depending on the owners financial situation.
I believe in giving the lowest dosage of steroid possible to control itch as after all some people use steroids on a daily basis i.e inhalers and nasel sprays and live a decent quality of life.

I fully appreciate the frustration of not knowing what the hell is causing the itch to the poor animals and i hope future tests will be successful in helping to eradicate it.

I have also read studies of use of antihistamines in dogs but they are not conclusive and rearly successful as a cure to an itch, i recently read a report where a study was done using fexofenadine and it did alleviate the symptoms in the dogs but high doses had to be used as dogs have a fairly high metabolism (compared to humans). The study used steroids and antihistamine combined but did not completely stop itch but did help.

Any-ways i should wrap up this post now, keep up the good work guys there's some great reading in the previous posts which are a great way of educating people and saving them some time.