Does GAA value Camogie?

rebel girl 15

robbiezero wrote: »

I have noticed with ladies football, particularly this year, that the top teams now play a similar defensive style to the men's teams, getting big numbers back in defence when they lose the ball.
I found both of the ladies football semi-finals to be quite disappointing to watch due to this.

This was being done by Cork long before the likes of Donegal were doing it. It's the other way round there,

rebel girl 15

bren2001 wrote: »

Ultimately, the GAA only have ties with Camogie, thus don't influence the game. The camogie circles are extremely political and I have found this to hamper the game. Specifically, Dublin underage camogie is where I have seen this.

I have no issue watching womens sport. I watch womens tennis, would only ever watch womens curling and gymnastics (not that I'd watch that on a regular basis). However, I have a few gripes with camogie.

1. People often say camogie is not as skilful as hurling. Complete nonsense, there is no reason the woman cannot do the same tricks and flicks as men. Anyone who watched the final on Sunday would see, the game is quite skilful. However, the game is not as fast. I do not get why they don't play on a smaller pitch. The amount of times I watched ladies football and camogie where they have struggled to get out of their own half is ridiculous. Make the pitch smaller and the game speeds up.

2. The promotion of womens sport is atrocious. The promotion of womens sport stars, notable exceptions Katie Taylor, Sonia in her day etc. I don't get why RTE are not forced to have a female footballer and hurler on their panel for the mens games. There are no role models for young girls. I grew up longing to emulate Dessie Farrell or DJ Carey. Girls don't have these role models.

3. Why in Gods name do they play the final in Croke Park. I understand, for the girls in question, it is a massive deal for them. I'm sorry, but if you want the sport to grow, you have to make sacrifices. I've been to a few Camogie finals and there is literally zero atmosphere. Its even worse on Telly and does nothing to promote people to go. Move it to a smaller stadium and try and create and atmosphere. Put in singing sections, give people drums etc. Look at how other sports artificially create an atmosphere.

I was shocked at the attendance of the camogie, around 12 thousand. Ladies football had 28K last year and should definitely have more given that Dublin are in the final this year

AG123

The ladies GAA are not against joining the GAA and the idea was discussed at congress, with a number of counties sending in motions to do so. There is a lot more publicity for LGFA compared to a few years ago and it's great to see. Attendance at the camogie and ladies football finals are very low alright. It's disappointing!

BKWDR

Mandygav wrote: »

Attendance at the camogie and ladies football finals are very low alright. It's disappointing!

I often thought if they changed their league and championship timetable to try and piggy back on to some of the mens league provincial games (semi finals etc) to get a bit more of a crowd to watch / catch on.

I accept anyones dream is to play in Croke Park but it really is lost on a crowd that small and looks shocking on telly

LeinsterDub

bren2001 wrote: »

3. Why in Gods name do they play the final in Croke Park. I understand, for the girls in question, it is a massive deal for them. I'm sorry, but if you want the sport to grow, you have to make sacrifices. I've been to a few Camogie finals and there is literally zero atmosphere. Its even worse on Telly and does nothing to promote people to go. Move it to a smaller stadium and try and create and atmosphere. Put in singing sections, give people drums etc. Look at how other sports artificially create an atmosphere.

Artificial atmosphere, shudder. Also didn't work for the league of Ireland.

GFish

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Camogie association are separate from GAA for now and that is at their own request.

Maybe so, but that's politics, not sport. Camogie is still a "gaelic game" as I understand the term.

As a Gaelic Games fan, I don't give a hoot about the politics but I expected to find basic info about all Gaelic Games being played in Croke Park - a hevily taxpayer funded statium - on the GAA website. Even if it's only a link to camogie.ie

I still can't see any reason why they wouldn't at least mention an All-Ireland Gaelic Games Final being played in Croke Park, the home of Gaelic Games.

I doubt very much that it was because the Camogie Association objected to Camogie being mentioned on GAA.ie, but I stand to be corrected - Politics truly is tricky stuff.

It's too late to check now but I wonder if Garth Brooks merited a mention on GAA.ie

bren2001

GFish wrote: »

Maybe so, but that's politics, not sport. Camogie is still a "gaelic game" as I understand the term.

As a Gaelic Games fan, I don't give a hoot about the politics but I expected to find basic info about all Gaelic Games being played in Croke Park - a hevily taxpayer funded statium - on the GAA website. Even if it's only a link to camogie.ie

I still can't see any reason why they wouldn't at least mention an All-Ireland Gaelic Games Final being played in Croke Park, the home of Gaelic Games.

I doubt very much that it was because the Camogie Association objected to Camogie being mentioned on GAA.ie, but I stand to be corrected - Politics truly is tricky stuff.

It's too late to check now but I wonder if Garth Brooks merited a mention on GAA.ie

But the GAA website is only for sports run by the GAA. Camogie is not part of the GAA and thus does not warrant a mention on the GAA website. No, Garth Brooks was never mentioned on gaa.ie. However, information on both the camogie final and Garth Brooks was available on the official Croke Park website.

GFish

GFish wrote: »

Maybe so, but that's politics, not sport. Camogie is still a "gaelic game" as I understand the term.

As a Gaelic Games fan, I don't give a hoot about the politics but I expected to find basic info about all Gaelic Games being played in Croke Park - a hevily taxpayer funded statium - on the GAA website. Even if it's only a link to camogie.ie

I still can't see any reason why they wouldn't at least mention an All-Ireland Gaelic Games Final being played in Croke Park, the home of Gaelic Games.

I doubt very much that it was because the Camogie Association objected to Camogie being mentioned on GAA.ie, but I stand to be corrected - Politics truly is tricky stuff.

It's too late to check now but I wonder if Garth Brooks merited a mention on GAA.ie

Without wanting to be smart, did you actually even check GAA.ie before deciding they hadn't covered the games?

I found a preview here: http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/1/1209141309-liberty-insurance-camogie-finals-previews/

And reports from all three finals. Here's the senior one: http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/1/1409142026-cork-win-all-ireland-senior-camogie-final/

In fact, they usually cover Camogie and Ladies Football despite the fact that they are not under their umbrella.

GFish

Deleted User wrote: »

Without wanting to be smart, did you actually even check GAA.ie before deciding they hadn't covered the games?

I found a preview here: http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/1/1209141309-liberty-insurance-camogie-finals-previews/

Good find, but without wanting to be smart, did you actually even read the first post in this thread?

As a fan, I was expecting to find listings of Gaelic games in the "Fixtures and Results" section of GAA.ie - http://www.gaa.ie/fixtures-and-results/

Even now, camogie is not even mentioned and Search GAA.ie (link at the top of GAA.ie page) still finds no mention of Camogie - not even one result!

I might be a Philistine but I always thought Camogie was a Gaelic game. It looks a lot like hurling; the county strips are the same; the rules are almost identical; it's played on the same grounds - including Croke Park.

I hear the points about Camogie not being under the GAA umbrella but I still don't understand why the premier association in charge of Gaelic games in Ireland does not do anything at all to promote/promulgate the ladies Gaelic games. I can't believe it's because the Camogie association says "Hands off, don't you dare promote us".

Incidentally, if Camogie is a separate organisation from the GAA - just like Garth Brooks is - I presume Camogie.ie have to pay to use Croke Park.

Any GAA representative here who could explain how this works?

bruschi

GFish wrote: »

Good find, but without wanting to be smart, did you actually even read the first post in this thread?

As a fan, I was expecting to find listings of Gaelic games in the "Fixtures and Results" section of GAA.ie - http://www.gaa.ie/fixtures-and-results/

Even now, camogie is not even mentioned and Search GAA.ie (link at the top of GAA.ie page) still finds no mention of Camogie - not even one result!

I might be a Philistine but I always thought Camogie was a Gaelic game. It looks a lot like hurling; the county strips are the same; the rules are almost identical; it's played on the same grounds - including Croke Park.

I hear the points about Camogie not being under the GAA umbrella but I still don't understand why the premier association in charge of Gaelic games in Ireland does not do anything at all to promote/promulgate the ladies Gaelic games. I can't believe it's because the Camogie association says "Hands off, don't you dare promote us".

Incidentally, if Camogie is a separate organisation from the GAA - just like Garth Brooks is - I presume Camogie.ie have to pay to use Croke Park.

Any GAA representative here who could explain how this works?

why would the official gaa site have fixtures for camogie, when their own, separate organisation has their fixtures on their own website? why dont you direct your ire to the head people of the camogie/ladies GAA who want to be seperate boards and organisations. The GAA in its current set up has no obligation to be doing the work for a separate organisation.

I certainly did read your first post - in fact I read the entire thread.

In your first post, as well as mentioning the fixtures, you said the following: "Nowhere on GAA.ie could I find even a mention of Camogie not even on the day that the final was played in Croke Park."

That is simply not true. I was on the GAA's website that day as I am from Cork and the top item on the home page was the report from the game, and I know that because I read it. The next two items were the two other finals. Match reports, with pics, teams and and scorers etc. How you could have missed them is beyond me. I follow the GAA on Twitter too and they had regular updates on all the games - pics, latest scores etc.

Your main gripe seems to be that you couldn't find camogie fixtures on the fixtures page that day. I've had a quick look and you are right, they don't seem to carry them, but I wouldn't expect that to be honest. Camogie have their own website and seem to do their own thing.

As for the search bar, I also tried Kerry and it returned nothing so I think it's fair to say it's not working. I just posted two links from GAA.ie to the games you are talking about so I don't see your point anyway.

As for the rest of your comment, I wouldn't be qualified to answer that.

GFish

bruschi wrote: »

why would the official gaa site have fixtures for camogie, when their own, separate organisation has their fixtures on their own website? why dont you direct your ire to the head people of the camogie/ladies GAA who want to be seperate boards and organisations. The GAA in its current set up has no obligation to be doing the work for a separate organisation.

Um,
GAA is the Gaelic Athletic Association, I think.
GAA.ie is the website of the Gaelic Athletic Association, I think.
Camogie is a Gaelic game, I think.
Croke Park is the HQ of Gaelic games, I think.
Camogie finals are played in Croke Park.
GAA.ie provides info about Gaelic games, I thought.

Which bit should I explain again?

GAA.ie provides listings for every Gaelic games fixture and result for men's games from Minor to Senior and from Club to All Ireland - but not a single one for a game is which a lady plays.

I don't care about the politics - I'm just a Gaelic games fan - and I still doubt very much that the ladies' association prohibits GAA.ie from telling Gaelic games fans about fixtures involving ladies.

Deleted User wrote:

I was on the GAA's website that day as I am from Cork and the top item on the home page was the report from the game, and I know that because I read it. The next two items were the two other finals. Match reports, with pics, teams and and scorers etc. How you could have missed them is beyond me.

Yep, agreed - but those are after-the-game reports.

My problem is that GAA.ie does not help us Gaelic games fans to find out what Gaelic games are due to be played - even in Croke Park - unless there are men playing.

bruschi

GFish wrote: »

Um,
GAA is the Gaelic Athletic Association, I think.
GAA.ie is the website of the Gaelic Athletic Association, I think.
Camogie is a Gaelic game, I think.
Croke Park is the HQ of Gaelic games, I think.
Camogie finals are played in Croke Park.
GAA.ie provides info about Gaelic games, I thought.

Which bit should I explain again?

GAA.ie provides listings for every Gaelic games fixture and result for men's games from Minor to Senior and from Club to All Ireland - but not a single one for a game is which a lady plays.

I don't care about the politics - I'm just a Gaelic games fan - and I still doubt very much that the ladies' association prohibits GAA.ie from telling Gaelic games fans about fixtures involving ladies.



Yep, agreed - but those are after-the-game reports.

My problem is that GAA.ie does not help us Gaelic games fans to find out what Gaelic games are due to be played - even in Croke Park - unless there are men playing.

Explain the whole lot there again please, you've a great way of discussing things without sounding condescending.

If the Gaa had all the camogie on their site, then wouldn't that mean their own one would be redundant? And why do they have their own site? Maybe it's because they have their own separate organisation. Maybe your ire should be directed there.

GFish

bruschi wrote: »

Explain the whole lot there again please

Here you go:

Gfish wrote:

GAA.ie provides listings for every Gaelic games fixture and result for men's games from Minor to Senior and from Club to All Ireland - but not a single one for a game in which a lady plays.

I sent you the link to the previews too. It was published the Friday before the games and has all the info you could want.

Also, here's a promo for the ladies football finals, which is on their site right now: http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/1/2309141818-tg4-ladies-all-ireland-football-finals-launched/

Check back on Friday and I bet they will have previews for the games, just as they did before the camogie.

With all due respect, it sounds like you have an idea in your head and are not willing to change your mind no matter what evidence you are presented with.

GFish

Deleted User wrote: »

I sent you the link to the previews too. It was published the Friday before the games and has all the info you could want.

True, and thanks for that.

But with all due respect, that is a bit like saying that the RTE Times program schedule has all the programs on RTE except the ones that have women in them. Of course it does mention the women's ones but somewhere else in the magazine.

At the risk of repeating myself, I still don't understand why a Gaelic Games Association website would list every Gaelic game that includes men but none that includes a woman.

I'm still hoping that a GAA representative might explain this.

munchkin_utd

GFish wrote: »

<snip>

At the risk of repeating myself, I still don't understand why a Gaelic Games Association website would list every Gaelic game that includes men but none that includes a woman.
<snip>

was said earlier,
GAA (which runs mens hurling and football) is different from ladies football association which is different again from the camogie association.

and again, to illustrate the point, if you have a lady involved or just as a simple member of a GAA club and plays camogie and ladies football - then she'll need 3 (yes THREE) separate registrations and affiliation payments made on her behalf as all 3 organisations are separate.

so if the ladies and camogie are separate from each other, and both are separate from the GAA, theres no reason why the GAA would duplicate fixture info for which they have no responsibility for.

AugustusMinimus

GFish wrote: »

True, and thanks for that.

But with all due respect, that is a bit like saying that the RTE Times program schedule has all the programs on RTE except the ones that have women in them. Of course it does mention the women's ones but somewhere else in the magazine.

At the risk of repeating myself, I still don't understand why a Gaelic Games Association website would list every Gaelic game that includes men but none that includes a woman.

I'm still hoping that a GAA representative might explain this.

This isn't a very hard concept to grasp and it has been stated in this thread several times.

Both the Camoige and the LGFA Associations want to be separate from the GAA and until they want to merge with the GAA, they will still be separate organisations.

AugustusMinimus

Must say, I'm absolutely dismayed to see no mention being made of the All-Ireland reply on the Camoige website :rolleyes:

mickmackey1

GFish wrote: »

...

You must be a blonde :pac:

GFish

GFish wrote: »

True, and thanks for that.

But with all due respect, that is a bit like saying that the RTE Times program schedule has all the programs on RTE except the ones that have women in them. Of course it does mention the women's ones but somewhere else in the magazine.

Is it really? I think this has been explained to you about 10 times throughout the thread and yet you still don't seem to get it. Liam O'Neill has repeatedly said he wants to bring Ladies football and Camogie under the same banner but they don't want to. I also don't get why you are so exercised by this when it clearly one of the first times you even went on their website when any regular user of their website and social media knows they do give coverage to the other sports.

As a matter of interest, are you annoyed that Camogie don't have any mention of the hurling replay on their website?

GFish

I've said it before - I don't give a hoot about the politics.

I'll try one last time, and maybe I can simplify it a bit:

Lets just say I'm a tourist - not a GAA or Camogie or Ladies Football or Rounders or Handball, etc afficionado who knows all the politics, etc. I am just a Gaelic games fan who will be in Dublin for a holiday which includes Sept 14, 2014 and would love to see a real live Gaelic game.

A few days before I travel, I Google "Gaelic games" and top of the list is GAA.ie. Cool, I think - GAA.ie (aka Gaelic Athletic Association) will have all the info about Gaelic athletic games.

I visit GAA.ie, browse to "Fixtures and Results" and find that there are no Gaelic games fixtures listed for that day. Oh well, too bad. Croke Park is empty so I'll just go to Temple Bar instead.

I arrive home in CountyOtherThanIreland on Monday and visit GAA.ie again and find that, far from Croke Park being desolate on Sept 14, there was actually a full blown All Ireland Gaelic final played there that day!

I ask on Boards.ie and I'm told:

GAA.ie does not mean "this is where you can get info about Gaelic athletic games".
It just means "This is where you can get info about Gaelic athletic games played by men. And you can read about the ladies games after the games are over. It politics, you know".

Is the GAA really the "Gaelic Athletic Association" or is it the "Men's Gaelic Athletic Association"

This is not politics, it's just sensible communication.

Dirty Dingus McGee

GFish wrote: »

I've said it before - I don't give a hoot about the politics.

I'll try one last time, and maybe I can simplify it a bit:

Lets just say I'm a tourist - not a GAA or Camogie or Ladies Football or Rounders or Handball, etc afficionado who knows all the politics, etc. I am just a Gaelic games fan who will be in Dublin for a holiday which includes Sept 14, 2014 and would love to see a real live Gaelic game.

A few days before I travel, I Google "Gaelic games" and top of the list is GAA.ie. Cool, I think - GAA.ie (aka Gaelic Athletic Association) will have all the info about Gaelic athletic games.

I visit GAA.ie, browse to "Fixtures and Results" and find that there are no Gaelic games fixtures listed for that day. Oh well, too bad. Croke Park is empty so I'll just go to Temple Bar instead.

I arrive home in CountyOtherThanIreland on Monday and visit GAA.ie again and find that, far from Croke Park being desolate on Sept 14, there was actually a full blown All Ireland Gaelic final played there that day!

I ask on Boards.ie and I'm told:

GAA.ie does not mean "this is where you can get info about Gaelic athletic games".
It just means "This is where you can get info about Gaelic athletic games played by men. And you can read about the ladies games after the games are over. It politics, you know".

Is the GAA really the "Gaelic Athletic Association" or is it the "Men's Gaelic Athletic Association"

This is not politics, it's just sensible communication.

In all fairness its not that difficult to understand.The GAA don't govern Ladies Football and Camogie therefore they have absolutely no obligation to provide their fixtures on their website.Just like the Premier League website doesn't provide info about this weekends Womens Super League fixtures the GAA doesn't have to provide info about the ladies matches as they aren't part of the GAA.

If the Ladies associations want tourists going to their finals perhaps they should advertise more.

But despite not having any obligation to advertise either of the womens games please see the links below fro the GAA.ie website

http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/1/2609141132-previews-ladies-football-championship-finals/

http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/1/2609141021-my-club-and-i-angela-walsh/


http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/1/2509141846-video-profile-eamonn-ryan-cork-manager/

http://www.gaa.ie/about-the-gaa/our-games/

Is that not enough coverage for you?

padd b1975

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Some Camogie people can be very hard to deal with.
they nearly go out of their way to do things differently than the main GAA body

Except of course when it comes to using GAA facilities.

zombieHanalei

GFish, at this stage I have question marks over your intentions with this thread. Despite being told several times that they are separate organisations you are still attempting to imply that some sort of sexism is at play here.

You say yourself, you don't give a hoot about the "politics", basically you're admitting the root of your ignorance on the matter, there is nothing sensible about what you're saying anymore. You have been given the answer several times, yet for some reason you're refusing to accept it.

The GAA is NOT the Camogie Association which in turn is NOT the LGFA. It's that simple. If you refuse to see this then you're just looking for a problem where one doesn't exist and are just complaining for the sake of complaining.

nice_guy80

padd b1975 wrote: »

Except of course when it comes to using GAA facilities.

the camogie are not part of the GAA.
they have to ask permission to use GAA grounds

zombieHanalei

nice_guy80 wrote: »

the camogie are not part of the GAA.
they have to ask permission to use GAA grounds

Which the GAA are kind enough to provide them with despite the attendances regularly being considerably lower than the commonly acknowledged attendance figure of 30000 required to cover the running costs of the stadium.

Not having a go at the ladies finals there; but I feel it's necessary to make the above point in a thread where the GAA are basically being accused of sexism/misogny. They probably take an even bigger hit financially with the hosting of the All Ireland club finals, but it's a major positive for national finals to be played there regardless of attendance figures, and it's good to see the GAA willing to take the hit financially.

hardCopy

GFish wrote: »

I've said it before - I don't give a hoot about the politics.

I'll try one last time, and maybe I can simplify it a bit:

Lets just say I'm a tourist - not a GAA or Camogie or Ladies Football or Rounders or Handball, etc afficionado who knows all the politics, etc. I am just a Gaelic games fan who will be in Dublin for a holiday which includes Sept 14, 2014 and would love to see a real live Gaelic game.

A few days before I travel, I Google "Gaelic games" and top of the list is GAA.ie. Cool, I think - GAA.ie (aka Gaelic Athletic Association) will have all the info about Gaelic athletic games.

I visit GAA.ie, browse to "Fixtures and Results" and find that there are no Gaelic games fixtures listed for that day. Oh well, too bad. Croke Park is empty so I'll just go to Temple Bar instead.

I arrive home in CountyOtherThanIreland on Monday and visit GAA.ie again and find that, far from Croke Park being desolate on Sept 14, there was actually a full blown All Ireland Gaelic final played there that day!

I ask on Boards.ie and I'm told:

GAA.ie does not mean "this is where you can get info about Gaelic athletic games".
It just means "This is where you can get info about Gaelic athletic games played by men. And you can read about the ladies games after the games are over. It politics, you know".

Is the GAA really the "Gaelic Athletic Association" or is it the "Men's Gaelic Athletic Association"

This is not politics, it's just sensible communication.

GAA.ie is where you go to get information on GAA games like GAA Football and GAA Hurling.

Maybe someone should set up gaelicgames.ie to provide a hub for all Gaelic sports news on one site.

robbiezero

robbiezero wrote: »

I have noticed with ladies football, particularly this year, that the top teams now play a similar defensive style to the men's teams, getting big numbers back in defence when they lose the ball.
I found both of the ladies football semi-finals to be quite disappointing to watch due to this.

Disappointing semi-finals maybe, but this final is an absolute cracker.

Neeson

Some absolutely shocking wides. And missing frees from in front of the posts? I wonder what is would be like with 30,000 opposition fans booing them. No wonder it's over half empty.