Children : Treating busy street as an area to play

hinault

I've nothing against kids out playing in the residential where I live.

Our area has a lot of traffic coming in to and exitting from our estate though.
And we have kids, some as young as 3 or 4 years of age, with absolutely no "roadsense" whatsoever, running around on to the street without being aware of oncoming traffic.

Our estate is well signposted for speed restrictions (20kmsph) and most drivers observe this rule.
But kids continue run out in front of traffic, or worse will stand in the pathway of cars reversing in to driveways.

It appears that the "parents" of these children are not concerned at the danger that these children present to themselves and to car drivers.

But if an accident does occur, it will be the motor vehicle driver who will be penalised if there is a collision.

Has an accident to occur before these parents get the message?
I don't want to see any kid get hit by a car. But what chance does a driver have if, respecting the speed limits, a kids runs out in front of their car before the driver can take evasive action?
The driver is on to a hiding to nothing.

An accident is going to happen and I'm asking for ways to try to avoid this happening.

Sir Arthur Daley

What can you do op is the problem.

con___manx1

hinault wrote: »

I've nothing against kids out playing in the residential where I live.

Our area has a lot of traffic coming in to and exitting from our estate though.
And we have kids, some as young as 3 or 4 years of age, with absolutely no "roadsense" whatsoever, running around on to the street without being aware of oncoming traffic.

Our estate is well signposted for speed restrictions (20kmsph) and most drivers observe this rule.
But kids continue run out in front of traffic, or worse will stand in the pathway of cars reversing in to driveways.

It appears that the "parents" of these children are not concerned at the danger that these children present to themselves and to car drivers.

But if an accident does occur, it will be the motor vehicle driver who will be penalised if there is a collision.

Has an accident to occur before these parents get the message?
I don't want to see any kid get hit by a car. But what chance does a driver have if, respecting the speed limits, a kids runs out in front of their car before the driver can take evasive action?
The driver is on to a hiding to nothing.

An accident is going to happen and I'm asking for ways to try to avoid this happening.

I have seen estates where this happens too. I always drive like snail. I can't understand people who let very small children play near a road. These estates are riddled with speed ramps but I can still see an accident waiting to happen. I really don't think there is anything you can do to be honest. They are not doing anything against the law. Just plain stupid careless parents

The Purveyor of Truth

I live close to a part of Dublin where toddlers play on the footpath beside a main road that buses fly down every ten minutes or so and not a speed bump in site. The problem in this area is that they built a sh1t load of apartments with feck all infrastructure and and even less amenities and so kids are left to use footpaths as playgrounds.

TwoShedsJackson

hinault wrote: »

But if an accident does occur, it will be the motor vehicle driver who will be penalised if there is a collision.

And rightly so. Slow down going through there and watch out for the kids, what else can you do?

Once a person, child or not, is in the road, they have right of way and you will be at fault if you hit them, so control what you can in this situation i.e. your speed, and be careful.

Certainly easier than going and lecturing their parents on how and where their kids should be playing.

holystungun9

con___manx1 wrote: »

I have seen estates where this happens too. I always drive like snail. I can't understand people who let very small children play near a road. These estates are riddled with speed ramps but I can still see an accident waiting to happen. I really don't think there is anything you can do to be honest. They are not doing anything against the law. Just plain stupid careless parents

As you were the third person to post I'm delighted that you quoted the op (1st post) leaving me in no doubt as to the link between your post and the aforementioned first post relating to issue of children playing on the roads within estates also clearly labeled in the thread title.

Pawn

Fairview Strand, Ballybough, Summerhill - all full of little knackers and drunk teenagers treating the public road like it was their living room. Nightmare.

Turtyturd

I think the bigger issue is these kids living with their. 'parents'.

Child kidnapping ring?

Teyla Emmagan

holystungun9 wrote: »

As you were the third person to post I'm delighted that you quoted the op (1st post) leaving me in no doubt as to the link between your post and the aforementioned first post relating to issue of children playing on the roads within estates also clearly labeled in the thread title.

No coffee yet?

kneemos

Turtyturd wrote: »

I think the bigger issue is these kids living with their. 'parents'.

Child kidnapping ring?

Lets take it up a notch.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

WE have the same in our estate. There's a communal car park with space for about 50 cars shared by two apartment blocks and a couple of houses. Despite ample green space the kids have decided the car park is the ideal place to play football. The turn into the car park is completely blind and I have to crawl around it as kids regularly pelt it across the opening after a ball or on a bike. The most bizarre thing is the parents of some of these kids stand at their doors watching the little urchins essentially playing in traffic and don't say a word. Someones child is almost certainly going to be hit as not every driver is as cautious as I am with the corner.

Akrasia

Feck sake. These are children playing in their neighbourhood

Half the threads on here are about obese kids who just watch tv all day, and those threads are full of 'In my day we were kicked out of the house at 7 am and told not to come home until dark'

In a housing estate, children are going to be playing. It's where they live, they are going to be on the roads. Drivers should be extermely careful and drive very slowly knowing that children (or animals) could appear from anywhere.

OP, you would get a much better response if you posted a thread complaining about arseholes speeding around housing estates and residential areas.

Any driver who hits a child in a housing estate is 99.9% at fault.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I find parents who let their kids race around unsupervised would generally be the type who'd call their solicitor before an ambulance if anything happened

anncoates

My (admittedly small and pretty quiet) estate full of kids out playing, including mine until dusk at this time of the year.

I just drive extra slow from the entrance of the estate to my house as does everybody else by the looks of it.

I don't expect children to be kept indoors under lock and key so I can reach my house 10 seconds faster.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Akrasia wrote: »

Feck sake. These are children playing in their neighbourhood

Half the threads on here are about obese kids who just watch tv all day, and those threads are full of 'In my day we were kicked out of the house at 7 am and told not to come home until dark'

In a housing estate, children are going to be playing. It's where they live, they are going to be on the roads. Drivers should be extermely careful and drive very slowly knowing that children (or animals) could appear from anywhere.

OP, you would get a much better response if you posted a thread complaining about arseholes speeding around housing estates and residential areas.

Any driver who hits a child in a housing estate is 99.9% at fault.

God be with the days your parents put the swings and a slide and a sandpit with buckets and toy cars in it, and maybe even a goalpost in the back garden to keep you amused, rather than leaving you out on the road.

YOU are responsible for the safety of your child. YOU. Not the general public. They have a duty of care to drive safely and obviously reduce speed in built up areas, not dodge some little brat with no regard for oncoming traffic.

smash

hinault wrote: »

I've nothing against kids out playing in the residential where I live.

Well then there was no real need for the next 8 paragraphs, or this thread in fact...

I live in a small estate so only traffic would be residents and visitors. Kids playing out of the street all the time in the good weather and it is true, some of them have no road sense.

My kids are grown up but I know all my neighbours and their kids. Mentioned we should do some road safety awareness and everybody agreed. It made a huge difference with them running out on the street without looking.

If new neighbours arrive, none of us feel uncomfortable asking them to slow down some more. It's all about talking to each other without bitching.

Bongalongherb

Akrasia wrote: »

Feck sake. These are children playing in their neighbourhood

Half the threads on here are about obese kids who just watch tv all day, and those threads are full of 'In my day we were kicked out of the house at 7 am and told not to come home until dark'

In a housing estate, children are going to be playing. It's where they live, they are going to be on the roads. Drivers should be extermely careful and drive very slowly knowing that children (or animals) could appear from anywhere.

OP, you would get a much better response if you posted a thread complaining about arseholes speeding around housing estates and residential areas.

Any driver who hits a child in a housing estate is 99.9% at fault.

Kids shouldn't be playing on the road in the first place. What mentality does your comment come across as ? not wise I must say.

Tons of weight driving slowly down the road and you mostly have cars/vans parked on each side of the road and you are driving at a snails-pace watching out like crazy incase a little person runs right out onto the road.

Keep your kids off the road. The parents should be fined if they let their kids run up/down and all over a road. It's dangerous either way and the road is not a playground. A bit of basic common sense would work wonders for most parents, but it seems a lot of them are brain-dead in relation to the danger.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Last year there was a small child killed in one of the estates in Portlaoise
http://m.rte.ie/news/2014/0315/602533-rtc/

I know her dad went on to run in the local elections a few months ago, trying to get speed ramps put down. I don't know if he was elected or if the speed bumps were down.

Teyla Emmagan

I guess this is only a problem with estates that are rat runs. I grew up in as estate with only 8 houses, and a massive green area, which was also a cul de sac. No one basically came in unless they lived there or were visiting, so there was never a problem with speeding cars. Any parent letting their kid play in a thoroughfare though is being grossly negligent IMO. It doesn't matter if there is no where else, then you take them to the park.

ShadowHearth

Akrasia wrote: »

Feck sake. These are children playing in their neighbourhood

Half the threads on here are about obese kids who just watch tv all day, and those threads are full of 'In my day we were kicked out of the house at 7 am and told not to come home until dark'

In a housing estate, children are going to be playing. It's where they live, they are going to be on the roads. Drivers should be extermely careful and drive very slowly knowing that children (or animals) could appear from anywhere.

OP, you would get a much better response if you posted a thread complaining about arseholes speeding around housing estates and residential areas.

Any driver who hits a child in a housing estate is 99.9% at fault.

I moved in to estate with a huge green area in the middle, which is perfect for children to play. Instead, little ****s, always playing on the road going around that green area. I am not even talking about children leaving their toys and bicycles just everywhere. Every time I going to drive somewhere I have to go around my car and push away bikes and throw all sort of toys of my drive way.

anncoates

Could the management company not just put an electrified fence around the green area to keep the kids in?

Pawn

anncoates wrote: »

Could the management company not just put an electrified fence around the green area to keep the kids in?

Good idea.
If nothing else works and parents don't care...

Bongalongherb

It's very simple... The parents of said kids only have to tell them while very young constantly if needed not to play or run blindly onto any road because it is dangerous, it's a no-no end of, and the kids will take this on-board/into their brain telling them it's dangerous to do so.

But trying to tell this basic thing to a parent just goes in one ear and out the other. If the parents can't teach their own kids the basics, then the parents and their children have no hope. A kids brain is like a sponge, it takes a hell of a lot of information in at an early stage so the kids will listen if told, especially if told how dangerous it is, but not to frighten them too much.

A lot of folk just open the door and let the kids run wild, and then when an accident happens in this above scenario, the parents blame everyone else instead of themselves, and all they had to do was teach their children the dangers of playing on a road.

RobYourBuilder

We played World Cup/Heads and Volleys in inner city Dublin. When a car approached, we ran to the sides. Someone would give a roar. If it was a local, they would beep to continue until the play finished.

Some craic when there were 20-30 of us playing at 11pm on a summers evening.

SEPT 23 1989

Go out and teach them how to play curbs and stop sitting in your houses giving out Meldrew style

ThisRegard

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

I have to crawl around it as kids regularly pelt it across the opening after a ball or on a bike.

You don't 'have' to crawl it because of the reasons you outline, you should be crawling out of common sense if there's kids in the general vicinity, never mind playing in the car park.

Threads like this, yet again (it can be seen in the regular cyclists threads), show that many motorists see themselves as a priority over everybody else.

Kids play on streets in the estate, a bit of cop on will tell you to be aware of this and take it very handy. You're not going to miss performing vital heart surgery or anything like that.

Chill and relax and everyone will be happy. You'd swear this is a new phenomena.

sbsquarepants

hinault wrote: »

An accident is going to happen and I'm asking for ways to try to avoid this happening.

At the risk of stating the obvious - drive more slowly?

RobYourBuilder

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

WE have the same in our estate. There's a communal car park with space for about 50 cars shared by two apartment blocks and a couple of houses. Despite ample green space the kids have decided the car park is the ideal place to play football. The turn into the car park is completely blind and I have to crawl around it as kids regularly pelt it across the opening after a ball or on a bike. The most bizarre thing is the parents of some of these kids stand at their doors watching the little urchins essentially playing in traffic and don't say a word. Someones child is almost certainly going to be hit as not every driver is as cautious as I am with the corner.

You can't play football in those green areas for at least six months of the year. Walk in the green from October to March. They are like marshes.

I'm in my twenties. I was one of those kids that played football non stop. They don't want to disturb you. I never wanted to put mine out. Chat with them. Strike a deal. You would be surprised how reasonable the kids will be.

Timberrrrrrrr

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I find parents who let their kids race around unsupervised would generally be the type who'd call their solicitor before an ambulance if anything happened

Absolute bollox :rolleyes:

hoodwinked

how slow do you go as a motorist though? honestly?

i've posted here before about the children around this estate,

one neighbour of mine came out of her house and got in her car, only for me shouting at her to stop there was a child under her car, she was parked in her drive, her car was stopped, would she be responsible for running over that child if i wasn't there?


or is the parent at fault for thinking a 4 year old had the cop on to mind themselves for the day,


i don't get how a parent can fuss over finding a babysitter for a 4 year old, and then do things like leave them out playing unsupervised at 11pm in the pitch black night.

RobYourBuilder

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I find parents who let their kids race around unsupervised would generally be the type who'd call their solicitor before an ambulance if anything happened

List the the court cases, so. They are all freely available on the Web.

You hurt yourself, you go in for a few and clean up. Then rush back out out because your team are losing 9-7.

anncoates

One of the issues these days is the increasingly proliferation of cars. When I visit my mother's street now, I can sometimes barely park on the street. When I was a id and played on that street, there was probably a third of the cars there.

Plus so many new estates now are geared more towards multiple car parking than pubic space.

We ourselves have two cars so we're as much a cause as anybody but cars don't have an automatic priority over everything just because you chose to build your life around it.

Kids have always played outside and always will. Even if there's a green area in an estate, they'll still be coming to and from it.

Parents just need to do their bit: try and drum into their kids about cars, not let them out after dusk and watch them as far as is ossible - for example, we binned our son's favourite toy - a scooter - because he kept disobeying orders about how fast he went on it on the path- but drivers need to be aware that there's kids around and be extra careful.

sbsquarepants

LexieOnRale wrote: »

God be with the days your parents put the swings and a slide and a sandpit with buckets and toy cars in it, and maybe even a goalpost in the back garden to keep you amused, rather than leaving you out on the road.

YOU are responsible for the safety of your child. YOU. Not the general public. They have a duty of care to drive safely and obviously reduce speed in built up areas, not dodge some little brat with no regard for oncoming traffic.

The problem there is a lot of apartments tend not to have back gardens.
And yes parents are responsible for their kids, and motorists are responsible for ensuring they don't drive over kids playing where they live.

They should really put this shít in the theory test.

You arrive at a busy housing estate, your kfc is getting cold and jersey shore has already started but the road is full of kids. Do you....

A. Drive slowly and exercise caution, sure you can always bang it in the microwave.
B. Mow them down, you pay your road tax don't you, they shouldn't even be there, bad parents, bla bla bla.

Bongalongherb

ThisRegard wrote: »

You don't 'have' to crawl it because of the reasons you outline, you should be crawling out of common sense if there's kids in the general vicinity, never mind playing in the car park.

Threads like this, yet again (it can be seen in the regular cyclists threads), show that many motorists see themselves as a priority over everybody else.

Kids play on streets in the estate, a bit of cop on will tell you to be aware of this and take it very handy. You're not going to miss performing vital heart surgery or anything like that.

Chill and relax and everyone will be happy. You'd swear this is a new phenomena.

What do you think roads are made for ? a kid play-ground ?. Nonsensical comment.

problemchimp

Pawn wrote: »

Fairview Strand, Ballybough, Summerhill - all full of little knackers and drunk teenagers treating the public road like it was their living room. Nightmare.

Don't generalise whatever you do.

hoodwinked

sbsquarepants wrote: »

The problem there is a lot of apartments tend not to have back gardens.
And yes parents are responsible for their kids, .

yet nobody is calling parents on the irresponsibility?

yes it's unfortunate when children live in apartments without back gardens, but usually thats down to their parents choices, they also have the choice to take their child to the local park/beach/play area, there is no excuse for lazy parenting.

sbsquarepants

Bongalongherb wrote: »

What do you think roads are made for ? a kid play-ground ?. Nonsensical comment.

What do you think housing estates are made for?

Even if you lived in the biggest estate in Ireland, to slow to a crawl and ensure you don't kill a child, regardless of whether they should be there or not could at most add a minute, lets even say 2 to be generous to your journey. What exactly do you be doing that those 2 minutes can't be spared?

ThisRegard

Bongalongherb wrote: »

What do you think roads are made for ? a kid play-ground ?. Nonsensical comment.

Sigh. The attitude I described summed up in one single sentence right there.

anncoates

Bongalongherb wrote: »

What do you think roads are made for ? a kid play-ground ?. Nonsensical comment.

I don't think anybody is saying that.

Main roads sure but roads inside housing estates, it's more vague. You live on an estate with lots of other people including kids where the road is often yards from a front door and access to green areas is often on the other side of a road.

It's not simply a racing track with the inconvenience of houses/pedestrians attached.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

sbsquarepants wrote: »

The problem there is a lot of apartments tend not to have back gardens.
And yes parents are responsible for their kids, and motorists are responsible for ensuring they don't drive over kids playing where they live.

They should really put this shít in the theory test.

You arrive at a busy housing estate, your kfc is getting cold and jersey shore has already started but the road is full of kids. Do you....

A. Drive slowly and exercise caution, sure you can always bang it in the microwave.
B. Mow them down, you pay your road tax don't you, they shouldn't even be there, bad parents, bla bla bla.

I'm not for a second suggesting cars/motorists have rights over the road. Obviously there's going to be kids outside, it's reasonable to expect someone to reduce their speed and drive slowly through a housing estate but its not reasonable to expect drivers to forsee a child darting out from somewhere, out in front of you with their bike or after a ball. The road is not for playing on and kids that don't even have the basic understanding of the safe cross code should not be left out on their own, unsupervised, with their fate left in the hands of strangers. As for kids who grow up in apartment blocks and have no gardens, that's no reason to let them play in a carpark

sbsquarepants

hoodwinked wrote: »

yet nobody is calling parents on the irresponsibility?

yes it's unfortunate when children live in apartments without back gardens, but usually thats down to their parents choices, they also have the choice to take their child to the local park/beach/play area, there is no excuse for lazy parenting.

Well that's great and all but how exactly do you cook, clean and do the general day to day things that running a house entails in a park or on a beach?

If you are licenced to drive a dangerous vehicle, it is YOUR responsibility to ensure that you drive as the conditions demand. If there's kids on the road, slow down, stop if you have to, that's it - end of story, no possible exceptions. And especially if you know in ADVANCE that they'll be there.
If you don't slow down, you are a bad driver and an asshole all rolled into one.

ArmaniJeanss

Sorry if you car drivers don't like it but roads are for football.
Much easier to play there than on the 'greens' that you insist kids should use; grass is just not a good surface for sport unless you carry around specialised footwear with you all day.
A good 50 metre stretch of road will allow a decent game of football for anything from 5-a-side to 18-a-side. If numbers are less for whatever reason then a smaller stretch of road will do as long as there is a big wall to use as the goal for 3-and-in or heads and volleys.

Drive carefully.

hoodwinked

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Well that's great and all but how exactly do you cook, clean and do the general day to day things that running a house entails in a park or on a beach?

If you are licenced to drive a dangerous vehicle, it is YOUR responsibility to ensure that you drive as the conditions demand. If there's kids on the road, slow down, stop if you have to, that's it - end of story, no possible exceptions. And especially if you know in ADVANCE that they'll be there.
If you don't slow down, you are a bad driver and an asshole all rolled into one.

you manage your time better? you clean while they are at school, if you work you clean when they are in bed, other people can manage it without leaving their children roaming the streets unsupervised,

yes you are responsible for your driving, but that does NOT absolve the parent from responsibilities,

like i said social services would be called on a parent leaving their 4 year old home alone while they go to work, yet there is nothing neglectful about leaving the child out on the streets amongst traffic/general public unsupervised?

Timberrrrrrrr

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Sorry if you car drivers don't like it but roads are for football.
Much easier to play there than on the 'greens' that you insist kids should use; grass is just not a good surface for sport unless you carry around specialised footwear with you all day.
A good 50 metre stretch of road will allow a decent game of football for anything from 5-a-side to 18-a-side. If numbers are less for whatever reason then a smaller stretch of road will do as long as there is a big wall to use as the goal for 3-and-in or heads and volleys.

Drive carefully.

Not to mention less chance of sliding into a big pile of dog **** that some **** didn't clean up.

sbsquarepants

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Sorry if you car drivers don't like it but roads are for football.
Much easier to play there than on the 'greens' that you insist kids should use; grass is just not a good surface for sport unless you carry around specialised footwear with you all day.
A good 50 metre stretch of road will allow a decent game of football for anything from 5-a-side to 18-a-side. If numbers are less for whatever reason then a smaller stretch of road will do as long as there is a big wall to use as the goal for 3-and-in or heads and volleys.

Drive carefully.

I have to say, I can't remember the last time I seen a match being played on the motorway. On the maybe last hundred meters or so of my journey I see it a lot - but then I don't feed the world or cure cancer after I finish work, so I can generally spare those precious seconds. Seems to me there must be a lot of very busy people posting here, how do they find the time I wonder?

sbsquarepants

hoodwinked wrote: »

you manage your time better? ?

People can't seem to find a spare minute to slow their cars down from the edge of their estate to their house?
I think you may well have hit the nail on the head there hoodwinked.

hoodwinked

sbsquarepants wrote: »

People can't seem to find a spare minute to slow their cars down from the edge of their estate to their house?
I think you may well have hit the nail on the head there hoodwinked.

my argument isn't against slowing down, its about the fact young children shouldn't be there in the first place, or if they are their parents should be standing there at ALL times watching them,

parents who think it's ok to let their child roam free anywhere outside without supervision even at ridiculously young ages.

ThisRegard

It's obvious who has no kids on this thread anyway, or those that somehow managed to skip their own childhood going straight from being a baby to a motorist.

sbsquarepants

It's really more important when you're a driver to worry about what IS there, rather than what should be. Drivers shouldn't run red lights, horses shouldn't get out of fields, stuff shouldn't fall off trucks and so on.

RobYourBuilder

Lads, if kids playing a bitta ball or whatever is keeping you up. Then talk to them. The kids just want to play their game. Kick a ball around. Point out why their playing football outside/near your house effects you.

Work with them. Don't immediately see them as 'enemies'. Through dialogue you will be able to sort something out.