84X Overcrowding

loyatemu

It doesn't directly affect me, but buses pulling off from the Dart station when there are crowds of people still exiting the station really annoys me. Whether Dublin Bus are supposed to be "competing" with the Dart (and that rationale is bullsh!t for many reasons) these are potential customers they're leaving behind. But the company and the drivers don't give a damn.

No bus should pull off from the station while there are people still coming out of the building, or a Dart is pulling in.

RayM

On Tuesday evening, I counted 42 people getting off the 4:50 84x between Stillorgan and Loughlinstown. The same bus was completely full and no longer taking passengers by the time it reached Belfield. By Loughlinstown, there were plenty of free seats again - but that's too late for those left behind.

Dublin Bus claims that it doesn't have the resources to deal with overcrowding on the 84x. This is nonsense - they're not bothering to make adequate use of what they have. A simple policy of refusing all passengers who aren't going further than Loughlinstown would largely solve the overcrowding issues. This would involve the drivers asking people where they're going, and telling some people to wait for a 46A or 145 instead.

An even better solution would be to allow competition on the route. There are a few local operators in North Wicklow with the resources to provide an alternative service. A lot of passengers would happily pay a premium for a faster (unlike Dublin Bus, they wouldn't be limited to 65km/h on the motorway), more reliable and comfortable service. If nothing else, you'd be guaranteed that Dublin Bus would miraculously 'find' the resources to put their competitors out of business.

ffactj

It wont matter soon anyway. There are plans afoot to terminate the 84X.
A little birdie who is involved in DBs route planning told me.
But it will be replaced with another service, just not an X, one that stops at all stops.

Charlie-Bravo

So in effect back to the old 84 route to city centre and rename it 84S?

ffactj

astrofluff wrote: »

So in effect back to the old 84 route to city centre and rename it 84S?

Effectively. But they are trying to decide if it will take in Bray or bypass it. After Bray though it will definitely not be going off the N11. So at least no silly detours into Stillorgan or Cabinteely/Cornelscourt.

RayM

ffactj wrote: »

It wont matter soon anyway. There are plans afoot to terminate the 84X.
A little birdie who is involved in DBs route planning told me.
But it will be replaced with another service, just not an X, one that stops at all stops.

The 84x is bad enough already, without throwing in extra stops and a potential trip through Bray. If that ever happened, I presume it would open the door for one of the private operators to step in and offer a limited-stop express service.

ffactj

RayM wrote: »

The 84x is bad enough already, without throwing in extra stops and a potential trip through Bray. If that ever happened, I presume it would open the door for one of the private operators to step in and offer a limited-stop express service.

Im sure it would, but the whole private operator thing can be a pain.
First off they are more expensive than DB. they a;ways start of just slightly more expensive and within a year they are adding on another euro each way. Then the worst thing is that you get a DB ticket and cant use it with the private operator, you get the private operators yearly ticket and you cant use it on DB.

Alan_P

Cerco wrote: »

Drivers should comply with timetables and road safety. It seems they comply with neither.

No, people are asserting that 84X drivers are driving unsafely, based purely on their personal experience, which is directly contradicted by my personal experience. To establish that the drivers are driving unsafely, someone would have to put forward a analysis that proves there's a statistically signiificant higher rate of accidents on the 84X route than there is on other, similar Dublin Bus routes. Noone has yet put such an analysis forward.

Cerco wrote: »

On another issue you raise, they do not provide free travel to people. The qualifying people are subsidised by the State.

And the subsidy by the state comes nowhere replacing the lost fares.

Viva La Gloria

Zoe zebra wrote: »

Do you mean Mr Happy who drives the 84x that departs Dublin at 630 pm? ;-)

I used to get that bus all the time out from town when I was in college. It's meant to be a Kilcoole bus but he won't go down the sea road anymore. Never have I jumped out of my seat quicker than the first day he flew down the main street and over the roundabout past Byrnes instead of going down the sea road. "Too hard to turn, and no one ever gets off down there!" was his response when someone challenged him on it. :rolleyes:

ffactj wrote: »

It wont matter soon anyway. There are plans afoot to terminate the 84X.
A little birdie who is involved in DBs route planning told me.
But it will be replaced with another service, just not an X, one that stops at all stops.

I spoke to a bus driver two weeks ago about that, and he said that it was complete nonsense. Not sure what the craic is, I heard that the 84X was going to be cut last year and it never happened. But he also said that they're thinking of running the 84 back between Belfield and Newcastle because the stint to Blackrock is bollocks and there's never anyone on it.

Zoe zebra

Viva La Gloria wrote: »

I used to get that bus all the time out from town when I was in college. It's meant to be a Kilcoole bus but he won't go down the sea road anymore. Never have I jumped out of my seat quicker than the first day he flew down the main street and over the roundabout past Byrnes instead of going down the sea road. "Too hard to turn, and no one ever gets off down there!" was his response

Driving through roundabouts at full speed is a regular occurrence with Mr Happy, as is putting the foot down on the accelerator when he's driving towards a bus stop and sees someone running for the bus. Passengers are regularly tossed around by the sudden braking and speeding. By the time you get off the bus you feel like you've been through an assault course. Judging by his attitude he seems to go out of his way to try and spread his constant bad humour to as many people as possible......

Zoe zebra

Alan_P wrote: »

No, people are asserting that 84X drivers are driving unsafely, based purely on their personal experience, which is directly contradicted by my personal experience. To establish that the drivers are driving unsafely, someone would have to put forward a analysis that proves there's a statistically signiificant higher rate of accidents on the 84X route than there is on other, similar Dublin Bus routes. Noone has yet put such an analysis forward.

As a matter of interest, have you been on the 630 from Dublin?

By the way, you don't have to actually have an accident to be driving unsafely.

ffactj

Viva La Gloria wrote: »

I used to get that bus all the time out from town when I was in college. It's meant to be a Kilcoole bus but he won't go down the sea road anymore. Never have I jumped out of my seat quicker than the first day he flew down the main street and over the roundabout past Byrnes instead of going down the sea road. "Too hard to turn, and no one ever gets off down there!" was his response when someone challenged him on it. :rolleyes:




I spoke to a bus driver two weeks ago about that, and he said that it was complete nonsense. Not sure what the craic is, I heard that the 84X was going to be cut last year and it never happened. But he also said that they're thinking of running the 84 back between Belfield and Newcastle because the stint to Blackrock is bollocks and there's never anyone on it.

What I said is happening.
The whole route isnt confirmed yet.
And drivers dont know about these things until they are a done deal.
And if they do, they wont tell you the truth. Easier for them to tell you ah everything will stay the same, than listening to passengers complaining to them about changes which they have no power over.

ffactj

Zoe zebra wrote: »

Driving through roundabouts at full speed is a regular occurrence with Mr Happy, as is putting the foot down on the accelerator when he's driving towards a bus stop and sees someone running for the bus. Passengers are regularly tossed around by the sudden braking and speeding. By the time you get off the bus you feel like you've been through an assault course. Judging by his attitude he seems to go out of his way to try and spread his constant bad humour to as many people as possible......

If you are unhappy with a driver, film the driving on your phone and email it to DB. If things dont change, post the clips on youtube with the dated and time. Then watch how fast it changes.

Blingy

ffactj wrote: »

It wont matter soon anyway. There are plans afoot to terminate the 84X.
A little birdie who is involved in DBs route planning told me.
But it will be replaced with another service, just not an X, one that stops at all stops.

For someone who uses this service daily it is very worrying to hear it will/could now take even longer to get to my destination. And reckon if you don't get on at the first or second stop it will get full very quickly!!! Not impressed!!!

artvandelay48

Hmm, I can't see the logic in getting rid of the 84x. If it stops being an express service, it simply won't be a realistic commuting option and people will stop using the service. It is chockers on all buses each morning so dublin bus would be losing a ton of revenue.

Honestly!

Zoe zebra wrote: »

Driving through roundabouts at full speed is a regular occurrence with Mr Happy, as is putting the foot down on the accelerator when he's driving towards a bus stop and sees someone running for the bus. Passengers are regularly tossed around by the sudden braking and speeding. By the time you get off the bus you feel like you've been through an assault course. Judging by his attitude he seems to go out of his way to try and spread his constant bad humour to as many people as possible......

People need to keep calling Dublin Bus about the ignorance of that individual.

Honestly!

It says a lot about Dublin Bus management's total disregard for customer service that someone as ignorant as "Mr Happy" is allowed to treat passengers as if they are an inconvenience to his day. "Utter ignorance" is the best I can describe his manner.

As far as I know, when the 6:30 84X gets back into the depot, that's him finished for the day and that explains the speed and attempts to pick up as few passengers as possible from Greystones DART station. The bus doesn't even pull into the bus stop, instead he chooses to block the traffic and force passengers to step up to the bus.

This bus is supposed to leave Greystones at 19:40. It frequently arrives and leaves at 19:25, stranding DART passengers. Dublin Bus then say it's not for them to meet up with trains and they are in fact "competitors"!! Subsidised by us of course.

I wonder if Simon Harris, Varadkar or the current minister for transport, Pascal Donohoe actually used public transport, would they demand some change, rather than use their roles purely for self-promotion through photo ops at upgrades etc.? Our public transport is as embarrassing as our politicians, both still operating the way they did in the seventies

Cerco

IMHO the public transport service delivery was better in the seventies. Yes there were the strikes and of course limited services but The people were generally more courteous and caring. I think the strength of the unions and their willingness to support members irrespective of behaviour is one reason for bad behaviour.
There is a very fine balance to be struck between the strength of the (necessary) unions and management. I also have sympathy for drivers. Can you imagine driving a bus all day, in traffic, from one end of a route to the other only to have to repeat same.

ffactj

Good news. I was told the other day that the new 84 route wont be going to the dart station in Bray for sure.
There was some serious pushing for it to meet up with the dart. Now it remains to be seen whether it will bypass Bray altogether.

If the driver is that bad people should really report him every time he acts the dick.

eleMental

even if it bypasses the dart and still goes through either bray or shankill it'll still add 15-20 minutes to the journey time to the city centre. i thought the whole point of if being an X bus was so that it covered long distances in a quicker time. really concerned to think its being binned / extended into bray/shankill. i've been hoping for ages that they might expand the timetable rather than the route, as i have to often work til 7pm and the last 84X is at 18:30 so its harder to get home. and there would for sure be a market for it? like a previous poster said, its packed every single day, so surely it makes sense to keep it running cos it must be generating revenue??

RayM

Two extra (un-timetabled) 84Xs are now running every evening (17:00 from Donnybrook Church and 18:10 from the City Centre). It's not a huge improvement, but it's made a difference to the overcrowding problems on the 16:50 departure.

http://stephendonnelly.ie/more-84x-busses-for-winter/

ffactj

eleMental wrote: »

even if it bypasses the dart and still goes through either bray or shankill it'll still add 15-20 minutes to the journey time to the city centre. i thought the whole point of if being an X bus was so that it covered long distances in a quicker time. really concerned to think its being binned / extended into bray/shankill. i've been hoping for ages that they might expand the timetable rather than the route, as i have to often work til 7pm and the last 84X is at 18:30 so its harder to get home. and there would for sure be a market for it? like a previous poster said, its packed every single day, so surely it makes sense to keep it running cos it must be generating revenue??

Probably more like 30 mins extra if it goes through Bray.
Its part of a plan to reduce services on other routes.
More buses sharing the same higher demand parts of the routes, but less buses overall and less complaints about overcrowding.
So there will be more 84s instead of Xs but less of other buses that share part of the route.

The problem thats its certain X's that attract complaints about overcrowding.
So the solution is to either provide more of that service or merge it with existing services each of which can serve more people. They are going for the latter. Anything not to have to buy more buses.

Cookie_Monster

ffactj wrote: »

Probably more like 30 mins extra if it goes through Bray.
Its part of a plan to reduce services on other routes.
More buses sharing the same higher demand parts of the routes, but less buses overall and less complaints about overcrowding.
So there will be more 84s instead of Xs but less of other buses that share part of the route.

The problem thats its certain X's that attract complaints about overcrowding.
So the solution is to either provide more of that service or merge it with existing services each of which can serve more people. They are going for the latter. Anything not to have to buy more buses.

This approach only works if minimum fares are implemented though, as is very easy to see with the likes of the 7b for example. Bus is full by Stephen's Green, passes by dozens of stops with people wanting to get on and is empty again by Foxrock as it's treated as a 46a / 145 by a majority. Those who actually need to use the bus often get left behind. Same will happen to users of 84/x going to end of the route.
If there were minimum fares or pickup only as far as XYZ then it would work.

Holysock

Article in The Wicklow Times 21st October 2014

Extra 84x services welcomed : Dublin Bus have announced that they will be laying on further 84x buses from Dublin over the winter peak period. Welcoming the news, Independent TD Stephen Donnelly said, "In August, more 145 buses were put on to offer an alternative to commuters who can also use the 145 and 46. However since then many constituents have been in contact to tell me that the plan has not reduced the number of cummuters from north of Bray using the 84x as expected. As a result , many North Wicklow users who rely on the 84x can still wait hours to catch a bus. "I alerted Paddy Doherty, Dublin Bus Chief Executive to this, and am pleased that he has responded by telling me that a further two 84xs will now run from Dublin City Centre every day at 18.10 from the City Centre and 17.00 from Donnybrook Church. These extra buses started running on Monday, 13th October, and will hopefully help Wicklow commuters over the winter months

I know it was posted earlier but how are people supposed to be made aware of it if its not on Dublin Buses website or timetable?

RayM

Holysock wrote: »

Article in The Wicklow Times 21st October 2014



I know it was posted earlier but how are people supposed to be made aware of it if its not on Dublin Buses website or timetable?

A driver told me that the extra buses will only run when there's a driver available. They're really just 'back up' for existing overcrowded services. That might be why they aren't putting them on the timetable. Also, it seems to be only a temporary thing anyway, in response to a huge amount of complaints. If the 84 is extended to Belfield again, the extra 84x buses will probably be taken away.

It's definitely made a difference. I was on the 16:50 from town this evening, and it didn't have to leave anyone behind.

Charlie-Bravo

Jennifer Whitmore and Stephen Donnelly meeting with CEO of Dublin Bus tomorrow - here's your opportunity:

Myself and Stephen Donnelly are meeting with the CEO of Dublin Bus tomorrow. Is there anything you would like raised at this meeting? Please share - the more feedback, the better!

https://www.facebook.com/whitmore.jennifer?hc_location=timeline

Charlie-Bravo

They've communicated it to Dublin Bus, and now waiting for DB to get back to them:

http://stephendonnelly.ie/what-wicklows-commuters-need-from-dublin-bus/

eleMental

the 84X timetable is no longer listing on the dublin bus app. it could be a glitch in the matrix but it makes me worried about getting my bus in the morning....

Viva La Gloria

Didn't know they had moved the bus stop up towards college green more. Walked straight past it the other day and then thought: "$hit, where's the bus stop gone?! Don't tell me they've moved it again!" But it's only up a bit from where it was, at the same stop as the 15. Phew

RayM

I like where the bus stop is now. When you're waiting for the 84x, you can watch people getting shouted at by a Garda for trying to drive through the College Green bus corridor.