Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread V

.ak

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We need something far better than him. Boss and McGrath are both better options so I really don't see the point unless we're bringing him in as a coach or something like that.

I agree, but beggars can't be choosers. Stringer is in decent form, better than McGrath, and could be cheap as chips and available to us during the RWC and 6N. If he's at the right price it's a no brainer for me. Another scrumhalf of decent quality will be impossible to find this summer.

irishbucsfan

.ak wrote: »

I agree, but beggars can't be choosers. Stringer is in decent form, better than McGrath, and could be cheap as chips and available to us during the RWC and 6N. If he's at the right price it's a no brainer for me. Another scrumhalf of decent quality will be impossible to find this summer.

He's no better than McGrath. I'd put him a fair bit below him to be honest in terms of value as a starter. He might be useful off the bench for a few minutes, but he would have no value for us as a starting 9 really. If we have Boss and McGrath at home we shouldn't be interested.

.ak

We'll have to disagree there. Stringer can pass and is a decent decision maker. I'm sure McGrath will get there, but he's not there right now, nor do I see him getting there by September.

Also look at us now, there's a very real possibility we'll be without Reddan and Boss for the RWC.

So McGrath and McCarthy for the RWC? No thanks.

The_Captain

Won the Heineken Cup three times, tied highest ranked team in Europe, 4 Celtic League trophies, a couple of B&I Lions in our starting XV, and now we're giving serious consideration to buying a 37 year old scrum half

irishbucsfan

.ak wrote: »

Yeah I don't really rate COS. I'd sooner take Girve, whilst I know he's unproven at this level I've had the pleasure of chatting to him a few times and he's a very keen rugby mind and seems quite cool and collect. Reminds me a bit of an angry Joe Schmidt, stickler for accuracy.

I'd love to see Girve go cut his teeth with a senior team in France or England then come back to us in the future.

I think Girve will be a great coach for us. I agree he needs some overseas experience first but everything I hear about him sounds great. I thought the same about McEntee as well but he seems to be drifting a little.

If MOC ends up doing 3-5 years then it may be too soon for Girve. I don't know of any other Irish coaches who look like they'll become suitable candidates in that period so my early guess is that we'll be looking at another foreigner. I think Ian Costello is absolutely brilliant though, I'd be happy to give him a shot.

Sangre

The_Captain wrote: »

Won the Heineken Cup three times, tied highest ranked team in Europe, 4 Celtic League trophies, a couple of B&I Lions in our starting XV, and now we're giving serious consideration to buying a 37 year old scrum half

Yeah, as cover in a world cup year.

total former

The_Captain wrote: »

Won the Heineken Cup three times, tied highest ranked team in Europe, 4 Celtic League trophies, a couple of B&I Lions in our starting XV, and now we're giving serious consideration to buying a 37 year old scrum half

You're thinking too hard about idle internet chatter. Leinster are not pursuing Stringer.

dub_skav

The_Captain wrote: »

Won the Heineken Cup three times, tied highest ranked team in Europe, 4 Celtic League trophies, a couple of B&I Lions in our starting XV, and now we're giving serious consideration to buying a 37 year old scrum half

Buying a 37 year old can never be a good idea.

The_Captain

The_Captain wrote: »

Won the Heineken Cup three times, tied highest ranked team in Europe, 4 Celtic League trophies, a couple of B&I Lions in our starting XV, and now we're giving serious consideration to buying a 37 year old scrum half

While both of our senior scrum halfs flirt with the idea of making the RWC squad.

While another of our scrum halfs has signed for Connacht from September.

While the only other scrum half with any senior gametime in the entire squad is still in nappies and has a way to go yet before taking all the gametime afforded to him by the others not being around for the opening 6/7 rounds next season.

It makes sense to have cover there tbh. Stringer's available, useful ish, wont break the bank. Give us another name we might look to bring in to babysit McGrath? I'd have Willis back if he hadn't packed it in tbh!

The_Captain

Munster would rather have Tomas O'Leary back than Stringer and they're in a worse position for scrum halves than we are

.ak

The_Captain wrote: »

Munster would rather have Tomas O'Leary back than Stringer and they're in a worse position for scrum halves than we are

Yes but they're looking for a more permanent player.

thomond2006

Stringer at worst would be a great asset to the Leinster dirttrackers.

The_Captain

The_Captain wrote: »

Munster would rather have Tomas O'Leary back than Stringer and they're in a worse position for scrum halves than we are

If Boss goes to the WC then we don't have a player to complete a matchday 23 with any pro12 experience at scrum half whatsoever.

We've had to recall Cooney to fill the 23 the weekend just gone. That option will not be not available in September when he's a Connacht player.

Who do you propose we have sit on the bench and offer McGrath some respite and cover?

irishbucsfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If Boss goes to the WC then we don't have a player to complete a matchday 23 with any pro12 experience at scrum half whatsoever.

We've had to recall Cooney to fill the 23 the weekend just gone. That option will not be not available in September when he's a Connacht player.

Who do you propose we have sit on the bench and offer McGrath some respite and cover?

If we're completely unable to find someone established to come in and play 9 (Leinster are actively recruiting for a 9 currently) then we'll be able to find a young player from the SH to come in.

Stringer has a negative VORP.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If we're completely unable to find someone established to come in and play 9 (Leinster are actively recruiting for a 9 currently) then we'll be able to find a young player from the SH to come in.

Stringer has a negative VORP.

Gimme a name. Any name.

Stringer has no definable VORP if there is nobody to compare him to. You're saying "Stringer is the worse option" but not completing the sentence.

irishbucsfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Gimme a name. Any name.

Stringer has no definable VORP if there is nobody to compare him to. You're saying "Stringer is the worse option" but not completing the sentence.

Chris Smylie?

irishbucsfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Gimme a name. Any name.

Stringer has no definable VORP if there is nobody to compare him to. You're saying "Stringer is the worse option" but not completing the sentence.

VORP is the end of the sentence. It's a comparison to a fictitious player who represents the freely available replacements on the market.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

VORP is the end of the sentence. It's a comparison to a fictitious player who represents the freely available replacements on the market.

Who I'd asked you to name, given that Stringer was the only one mentioned at any stage prior. The other freely available replacements are .... ?

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Chris Smylie?

Good credentials. Is he up for a NH swap? Is he content to sit on the bench and babysit McGrath for 3 months but also good enough to cover a Reddan/Boss injury for a HEC game? (no idea, no knowledge of him whatsoever)

irishbucsfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Who I'd asked you to name, given that Stringer was the only one mentioned at any stage prior. The other freely available replacements are .... ?

Sorry I posted twice, I didn't see the edit originally. I did respond to that.

There are players out there from Currie Cup, ITM level who would offer us more value. But that's only if Leinster don't succeed in bringing in someone better than that.

irishbucsfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Good credentials. Is he up for a NH swap? Is he content to sit on the bench and babysit McGrath for 3 months but also good enough to cover a Reddan/Boss injury for a HEC game? (no idea, no knowledge of him whatsoever)

I have no idea either but those'd be the questions Easterby can ask his management during negotiations. There are plenty of alternatives if he isn't interested in a pay rise and a year overseas.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I have no idea either but those'd be the questions Easterby can ask his management during negotiations. There are plenty of alternatives if he isn't interested in a pay rise and a year overseas.

Who else so? We've two named. Stringer and Smylie.

Who are these plenty of available scrum halfs that can do the job we need? (Stringer in a limited capacity if even)

Names? I'm nowhere near as confident that this list is either extensive, or available, or realistic. Admittedly, probably through ignorance.

total former

Uh huh.

None of this solves anything. If either Boss or Reddan fails to make the RWC squad and is therefore available, then having Stringer (or any short-term replacement) is a waste. Except we won't know who is going to be in the squad until the end of August and that's very late to be looking for options.

We should be going shopping now and looking for good scrum-halves who can challenge for the first-team jersey IMO. Peter Stringer is not a good scrum half who can challenge for the first team jersey.

total former

total former wrote: »

Uh huh.

None of this solves anything. If either Boss or Reddan fails to make the RWC squad and is therefore available, then having Stringer (or any short-term replacement) is a waste. Except we won't know who is going to be in the squad until the end of August and that's very late to be looking for options.

We should be going shopping now and looking for good scrum-halves who can challenge for the first-team jersey IMO. Peter Stringer is not a good scrum half who can challenge for the first team jersey.

Names? World Cup year so no internationals if possible.

irishbucsfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Who else so? We've two named. Stringer and Smylie.

Who are these plenty of available scrum halfs that can do the job we need? (Stringer in a limited capacity if even)

Names? I'm nowhere near as confident that this list is either extensive, or available, or realistic. Admittedly, probably through ignorance.

There are loads more at that level of player. Even slightly higher on the edges of the Super rugby teams (there's a young Chiefs 9 who is about 4th choice who looks good but I can't remember his name). I don't watch a huge amount of Currie/ITM rugby any more I'm afraid but there are Goodman-standard guys out there who can offer us cover who aren't 37 years old.

Edit: is it Harrington at the Chiefs? I have only actually seen him once but a kiwi friend is a big fan.

total former

Deleted User wrote: »

Names? World Cup year so no internationals if possible.

I don't follow enough Super/NPC/Currie Cup to be throwing out names tbh, but I'm sure they're out there and my ignorance doesn't make Stringer a better option. Leinster have generally been very good in identifying SH talent that is a little bit below the radar so I'd hope they can do the same again.

Loads more asserted but as a group of rugby heads we can't name more than 2.

My scepticism is tweaked and my worries not assuaged.

total former

Deleted User wrote: »

Loads more asserted but as a group of rugby heads we can't name more than 2.

My scepticism is tweaked and my worries not assuaged.

What are you worried about?

total former

total former wrote: »

What are you worried about?

That this ready supply of pro12 (and higher) standard scrum halves doesn't exist, and certainly not in a RWC year.

irishbucsfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That this ready supply of pro12 (and higher) standard scrum halves doesn't exist, and certainly not in a RWC year.

Ross Cronje? I mean I'm not a professional so I dont have a list of these at hand but I'm pretty sure I could give you 5 candidates with some time.

total former

Deleted User wrote: »

That this ready supply of pro12 (and higher) standard scrum halves doesn't exist, and certainly not in a RWC year.

Again, I don't know enough to know who is out there, but Peter Stringer isn't of that calibre either. The only reason we're having this discussion is because he's an Irish legend but that shouldn't cut any ice.

The only reason his name is on the page is because he's a senior scrum half that is not contracted for next season who is still fit enough to play.

But that still puts him ahead of the 'loads' of other vague candidates for the position.

vienne86

Deleted User wrote: »

The only reason his name is on the page is because he's a senior scrum half that is not contracted for next season who is still fit enough to play.

But that still puts him ahead of the 'loads' of other vague candidates for the position.

He could do nicely as WC cover. He really passes very well, but dammit, he's 37. I would favour a very short term contract, but another aging SH is not what Leinster need IMO.

I suspect Stringe will go on to develop his TV career with BT, where he actually donesn't do too badly.

Tox56

Ross Moloney and Dan Leavy training with the senior squad going by the training pics, would be brilliant to see them get some gametime. Leavy particularly I think if he gets his injuries behind him and a few games under his belt could move up the ranks big time

shuffol

Boss, McGrath and if needed Nick McCarthy should be enough during the WC. If heaven forbid Boss were to make the Irish squad then a short term replacement could be looked at.

salmocab

If we are just looking for a SH for a few months as cover we could pick up someone playing Currie cup or NPC for cheap enough I would imagine, but if we are doing that as a real short term thing then Id be happy to see Stringer as cover. The reality is though we need a long term solution as we have 2 aging SH and a young one that despite being rated by people here doesn't seem to be getting much game time.

MattD

I can't imagine that Stringer is the only option if we're looking for a short term deal for an experienced scrum half. I've thought he's looked good for Bath, but it just seems like the laziest link to make for Leinster.

What is Chris Cusiter at these days?

salmocab

MattD wrote: »

I can't imagine that Stringer is the only option if we're looking for a short term deal for an experienced scrum half. I've thought he's looked good for Bath, but it just seems like the laziest link to make for Leinster.

What is Chris Cusiter at these days?

It is lazy alright but he doesn't take up a NIQ spot which would be a factor I imagine

Hagz

Look lads, the answer is simple. Give Bobby Holland a development contract. Sorted.

padser

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ross Cronje? I mean I'm not a professional so I dont have a list of these at hand but I'm pretty sure I could give you 5 candidates with some time.

I'm with Emmett in the skeptical camp on this one.

In a World Cup year there are roughly 24 scrum halves unavailable during the World Cup (top 8 teams by 3 scrumhalves per squad).

I assume that pro 12 standard means currently playing for a Pro12, Premiership, Top 14 or Super 15 team. I think that's a fair assumption, the notion that lower leagues are filled with players of that quality doesn't stack up to any serious analysis (and isolated examples to the contrary don't change this). That means roughly 55 teams.

I'd assume that this means there are roughly 110 (2 per team) scrum halves in the world at the required standard. 11-16 of them will be injured (10-15% injury clause) and 24 will be away at the RWC (I admit there may be some overlap between these groups),

So 110 scrumhalves at the required level, 35-40 unavailable, leaves 70-75 for the 55 teams that want them, and I'd imagine most teams would like 2.

So, I'd be fairly surprised if anyone here can come up with a list 5 names at the required level and likely to be available. The World Cup just takes too many of them away,...

CIARAN_BOYLE

I'd add another 5 -10 each each for Currie cup and npc players of the rquired standard not playing ssuper rugby.

As to a suggestion as a slightly longer term option than Stringer how about Nik Groom of South Africa. 23 years old around 30 super rugby caps and 60 currie cup caps. Contract expires 2015 sure we would probably have to buy him out of a few months early.

Could make a good option if we want a potential project.

sydthebeat

Jimmy Cowan on loan during the rwc (and possibly the 6n) ??

32 and still going strong. Knows NH rugby very well.

total former

A quick Google tells me Mike Blair is out of contract at the end of the season. Perfect.

vienne86

total former wrote: »

A quick Google tells me Mike Blair is out of contract at the end of the season. Perfect.

Hmm. Would take a NIQ slot...no?

CIARAN_BOYLE

vienne86 wrote: »

Hmm. Would take a NIQ slot...no?

Short term contract to last the rwc before being released in order for Big new signing to arrive.

Maybe

thebaz

We loan out Cooney for year - he hardly plays for Connacht , then he signs a full contract - then we loan him back , he comes on plays a stormer - and now we are short a SH for next year - very odd . I've always felt he looks a better all round SH than McGrath

Morf

Tox56 wrote: »

Ross Moloney and Dan Leavy training with the senior squad going by the training pics, would be brilliant to see them get some gametime. Leavy particularly I think if he gets his injuries behind him and a few games under his belt could move up the ranks big time

For all the talk about Leavy (and not a criticism of him) I think Molony has put in more high quality performances for Leinster A.

Injury has been a big factor and Molony just seems to have hit the ground running.

Morf

.ak wrote: »

Yeah I don't really rate COS. I'd sooner take Girve, whilst I know he's unproven at this level I've had the pleasure of chatting to him a few times and he's a very keen rugby mind and seems quite cool and collect. Reminds me a bit of an angry Joe Schmidt, stickler for accuracy.

I'd love to see Girve go cut his teeth with a senior team in France or England then come back to us in the future.

You must have been chatting to him 'off-duty'.

He is a very focused looking man with the A team whenever I've seen him.

total former

Reddan, D'Arcy and Moore back training with Leinster yesterday, might see them on Friday.

http://inpho.ie/assignment/Leinster-Rugby-Squad-Training/Ijed2Wuf-GuHc9JDnVYlDg..a?ts=FaNE87BqhJWapFmcTn-E5A..a

Ruddock, Kirchner and McLaughlin there too which is encouraging.

Podge_irl

thebaz wrote: »

We loan out Cooney for year - he hardly plays for Connacht , then he signs a full contract - then we loan him back , he comes on plays a stormer - and now we are short a SH for next year - very odd . I've always felt he looks a better all round SH than McGrath

They're completely opposite scrum halfs. Cooney has a lovely pass most of the time but his reading of the game can be truly godawful.

vienne86

Podge_irl wrote: »

They're completely opposite scrum halfs. Cooney has a lovely pass most of the time but his reading of the game can be truly godawful.

Yes, we could get a biased view looking at his cameo on Sunday. I would always have rated McGrath higher than Cooney, though to be fair, he has done well for Conacht when I have seen him play.