Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread V

TommyOM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No, they haven't had two years to correct it, because width hasn't been a problem for two years. And also because our midfield has been the most disrupted unit in the entire team during that period.

You are beginning to sound like Gerry Thornley during the end of the Kidney reign. Do you believe that MOC is blameless in Leinster's rudderless displays over the past two seasons?

irishbucsfan

TommyOM wrote: »

You are beginning to sound like Gerry Thornley during the end of the Kidney reign. Do you believe that MOC is blameless in Leinster's rudderless displays over the past two seasons?

Nope. If you read what I'm saying you'll see that.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

I disagree, especially regarding Europe.

Leinster's squad is definitely not a given for being a semi finalist. That would certainly be over-rating what MOC has at his disposal.

I'd agree with this. A European SF should be a target, but that's totally different from an expectation. I'd expect to make the QF and, pool permitting, a SF. But it's really important to remember that is pool permitting, i.e. it enables us to get a home QF which gives us a better shot at the SF.

I had absolutely no issue with us going out at the QF stage last season away to Toulon for example. My expectation was set once the QFs fell the way they did.

TommyOM wrote: »

You are beginning to sound like Gerry Thornley during the end of the Kidney reign. Do you believe that MOC is blameless in Leinster's rudderless displays over the past two seasons?

He's not saying that at all. He's laying a certain amount of blame at the coaches door while still stressing the squad issues. We will have had 2 years under MOC come July/August time so he's right when he says we haven't had 2 years to correct anything. The wide issue also wasn't there from the start anyway.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

That's true, and it's almost certainly related to poor midfield play which has killed us this season, but of course it's also something that should be addressed by coaching as well. If it's something that they are free to decide themselves on the field there should still be critique on those decisions.

As you said, we'll see more along those lines next season. Sexton could be in his element with the freedom he's going to be afforded.

EDIT: The bolded part above is in reality where I'm coming from myself, just a bit less, eh, enthusiastically....

awec

Europe is not really a good indicator of where a team is at anyway because a lot of it comes down to the luck of the draw. Munster have been semi finalists the past two years but they are definitely not one of the best 4 sides in Europe. Leinster got a handy group draw this year that sees them get a home semi, on another day they could have got Toulon and Leicester and been dumped out.

Edinburgh were european semi finalists just three seasons ago too.

You can say "the minimum should be a QF" but that really is just guesswork because you don't know who you'll get in your group and if you're unlucky you could end up with two teams who are just better than you are.

TommyOM

The likes of Toulon and Clermont expect a semi every year. Leinster are up there with these two as well. In the last 5 years Leinster have won the European Cup 3 times! Why shouldn't we be expecting a semi final?

Already the lowering of expectations has begun.

awec

TommyOM wrote: »

The likes of Toulon and Clermont expect a semi every year. Leinster are up there with these two as well. In the last 5 years Leinster have won the European Cup 3 times! Why shouldn't we be expecting a semi final?

Already the lowering of expectations has begun.

Toulon can expect a SF all they want, they're the best team in Europe by a distance. Leinster's squad is not on the same level.

.ak

TommyOM wrote: »

The likes of Toulon and Clermont expect a semi every year. Leinster are up there with these two as well. In the last 5 years Leinster have won the European Cup 3 times! Why shouldn't we be expecting a semi final?

Already the lowering of expectations has begun.

Because we - our players, squad depth, and our budgets - are nowhere near as good as them.

You can have whatever expectations you want, your a fan and you pay for tickets.

Being realistic about things is a different thing all together. What you want vs what is likely.

awec

.ak wrote: »

Because we - our players, squad depth, and our budgets - are nowhere near as good as them.

You can have whatever expectations you want, your a fan and you pay for tickets.

Being realistic about things is a different thing all together. What you want vs what is likely.

I think we are prone to overrating some of our own players.

Take the Toulon squad and the Clermont squad, how many of Leinster's players would get into a first choice 15 at those clubs? Not a lot.

Leinster are coming in to the dreaded phase beginning with T - Transition.

thomond2006

TommyOM wrote: »

The likes of Toulon and Clermont expect a semi every year. Leinster are up there with these two as well. In the last 5 years Leinster have won the European Cup 3 times! Why shouldn't we be expecting a semi final?

Already the lowering of expectations has begun.

Sorry, but they're not. Leinster were in their prime in 2012 when they were the team in Europe but have been on the slide since then.

.ak

awec wrote: »

I think we are prone to overrating some of our own players.

Take the Toulon squad and the Clermont squad, how many of Leinster's players would get into a first choice 15 at those clubs? Not a lot.

They may get into the squad, but I can't see many, if any, getting into the starting XV. O'Brien and maybe Heaslip... incidentally.

EDIT: Talking about toulon there.

TommyOM

TommyOM wrote: »

The likes of Toulon and Clermont expect a semi every year. Leinster are up there with these two as well. In the last 5 years Leinster have won the European Cup 3 times! Why shouldn't we be expecting a semi final?

Already the lowering of expectations has begun.

In the last 2 years we've won it 0 times though. I'd weight the importance of that stat over a tournament 4 years ago where almost half the players in the matchday squad no longer play for us, and those that do are 4 years closer to retirement.

(Nacewa; Horgan, O'Driscoll, D'Arcy, Fitzgerald; Sexton, Reddan; Healy, Strauss, Ross, Cullen (capt), Hines, McLaughlin, O'Brien, Heaslip.Replacements: Harris-Wright (for Strauss, 79), H Van der Merwe (for Healy, 58), Wright (for Ross, 78), Toner (for Hines, 78), Jennings (for McLaughlin, 41), Boss (for Reddan, 73), Madigan (for Sexton, 78), McFadden (for D'Arcy, 67).)

We actually haven't won the European Cup 3 times in the past 5 years either...
Toulouse, Leinster, Leinster, Toulon, Toulon have been the last 5 winners.

What's wrong with realism?

awec

Leinster now:

Front row: Mike Ross is on the way out.
Second row: Emergence of Toner, lack of a real top quality partner for him
Back row: Jennings on the way out. McLaughlin injured.
Half backs: No number 9 that you could describe as being at their peak. Two who will "do a job". Next season a top quality 10, this year just two "good" ones.
Centre: BOD gone, D'Arcy older. Fitzgerald doing ok but he's no BOD.
Wing: Nacewa gone. Fanning is a regular ffs.
Full back: RK is a great player but hasn't quite hit the same level as he did a few years ago.


Leinster are just not as good as they were. OK the coach isn't amazing but he's not playing with a deck that is as good as what Schmidt had.

.ak

I actually disagree about RK but everything else spot on.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

Europe is not really a good indicator of where a team is at anyway because a lot of it comes down to the luck of the draw. Munster have been semi finalists the past two years but they are definitely not one of the best 4 sides in Europe. Leinster got a handy group draw this year that sees them get a home semi, on another day they could have got Toulon and Leicester and been dumped out.

Edinburgh were european semi finalists just three seasons ago too.

You can say "the minimum should be a QF" but that really is just guesswork because you don't know who you'll get in your group and if you're unlucky you could end up with two teams who are just better than you are.

With the way that the teams are ranked for the pools (and the fact that expecting Leinster to make the league play-offs isn't exactly unfair given the squad) we'd probably end up with 1 team better than us in the pools. But even at that we should still be looking to qualify for the QFs. Wasps qualified having lost 2 and drawn 1 remember. Sarries and NH lost 2 games as well. In that sense the new competition structure and rules came at a decent time for us in a way.

thomond2006

.ak wrote: »

They may get into the squad, but I can't see many, if any, getting into the starting XV. O'Brien and maybe Heaslip... incidentally.

EDIT: Talking about toulon there.

Allow me...

Healy, Guirado, Hayman, Bakkies, Gorgodze, SOB, Fernandez Ligind, Armitage;
STB, Giteau, Fitzgerald, Mermoz, Bastareaud, Habana, Kearney

Bench: Cronin, McGrath, Ross/Moore, Toner, Heaslip, Reddan, Sanchez, Halfpenny

Make it happen Mourad! :pac:

.ak

And tbh, they're very debatable... Especially Kearney vs Halfpenny. Halfpenny would suit their game plan more I think,

Clearlier

thomond2006 wrote: »

Allow me...

Healy, Guirado, Hayman, Bakkies, Gorgodze, SOB, Fernandez Ligind, Armitage;
STB, Giteau, Fitzgerald, Mermoz, Bastareaud, Habana, Kearney

Bench: Cronin, McGrath, Ross/Moore, Toner, Heaslip, Reddan, Sanchez, Halfpenny

Make it happen Mourad! :pac:

I'm not sure that the IRFU would let Mourad take over Leinster and certainly no that many NIQ's.

TommyOM

awec wrote: »

Toulon can expect a SF all they want, they're the best team in Europe by a distance. Leinster's squad is not on the same level.

Toulon are better but Leinster aren't far off and are capable (or were before MOC) of beating them on any day.

Leinster definitely have a squad capable of expecting a semi every year

Squidgy Black

awec wrote: »

Leinster now:

Front row: Mike Ross is on the way out.
Second row: Emergence of Toner, lack of a real top quality partner for him
Back row: Jennings on the way out. McLaughlin injured.
Half backs: No number 9 that you could describe as being at their peak. Two who will "do a job". Next season a top quality 10, this year just two "good" ones.
Centre: BOD gone, D'Arcy older. Fitzgerald doing ok but he's no BOD.
Wing: Nacewa gone. Fanning is a regular ffs.
Full back: RK is a great player but hasn't quite hit the same level as he did a few years ago.


Leinster are just not as good as they were. OK the coach isn't amazing but he's not playing with a deck that is as good as what Schmidt had.

Marty Moore is stepping up and will be a key part of our front row once he starts to get regular game time and stays injury free. 2nd row is still a weak point, it'll be a few years before the Academy talent moves up and McCarthy and Douglas aren't really playing up to scratch. In the backrow, Leavy is coming back from injury, Conan is looking like a great prospect and also Jordi Murphy has improved a lot.

9 is a trouble position, unless McGrath makes huge leaps in the offseason/WC period. At centre, Teo could be a huge asset if he works on his handling, Fitzgerald isn't at BOD level yet but an injury free run and he could bring some spark to a rather dead backline. Wing again isn't a strong point.

It's not all doom and gloom, I certainly wouldn't put it down to the players.

awec

TommyOM wrote: »

Toulon are better but Leinster aren't far off and are capable (or were before MOC) of beating them on any day.

Leinster definitely have a squad capable of expecting a semi every year

Leinster are miles off Toulon.

errlloyd

Jonny Sexton would push Giteau to 12 and Mermoz out of the side next season too.

TommyOM

awec wrote: »

Leinster are miles off Toulon.

Under MOC yes, but that 22 is capable of beating Toulon

thomond2006

TommyOM wrote: »

Toulon are better but Leinster aren't far off and are capable (or were before MOC) of beating them on any day.

Pedantic I know but that isn't the same as saying they are on the same level as Toulon. Suggesting they are on the same level implies that any matchup would be 50/50.

What you've said above is a lot more realistic/fair.

awec

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

Marty Moore is stepping up and will be a key part of our front row once he starts to get regular game time and stays injury free. 2nd row is still a weak point, it'll be a few years before the Academy talent moves up and McCarthy and Douglas aren't really playing up to scratch. In the backrow, Leavy is coming back from injury, Conan is looking like a great prospect and also Jordi Murphy has improved a lot.

9 is a trouble position, unless McGrath makes huge leaps in the offseason/WC period. At centre, Teo could be a huge asset if he works on his handling, Fitzgerald isn't at BOD level yet but an injury free run and he could bring some spark to a rather dead backline. Wing again isn't a strong point.

It's not all doom and gloom, I certainly wouldn't put it down to the players.

It's not all doom and gloom at all.

But Moore, Leavy, Conan and Murphy are not yet at the level of driving a team to European victory. Right now at least three of those players are in the "prospect" category.

Maybe in a few years if they continue to develop and improve, but right now Leinster have too many undercooked parts to their squad.

.ak

TommyOM wrote: »

Toulon are better but Leinster aren't far off and are capable (or were before MOC) of beating them on any day.

Leinster definitely have a squad capable of expecting a semi every year

You're over rating the players, and by the bolded comment its fairly clear you aren't open minded to any other possibilities, despite the facts being laid out infront of you. Do you not agree we have a far weaker squad now then we did before MOC took over?

awec

TommyOM wrote: »

Under MOC yes, but that 22 is capable of beating Toulon

In a one off fixture anyone is capable of beating anyone. Toulon could have an off day. Leinster could play the game of their lives. That's the beauty of knockout rugby.

But Leinster are not at the same level as Toulon. Nobody is.

TommyOM

.ak wrote: »

And tbh, they're very debatable... Especially Kearney vs Halfpenny. Halfpenny would suit their game plan more I think,

How many Munster players would get into the Leinster side?

POC, POM, Murray, Zebo, Earls

I still wouldn't say that Munster aren't capable of beating Leinster (evidently)

Healy, O'Brien, Heaslip, Fitzgerald and Kearney would all make Toulon

TommyOM

TommyOM wrote: »

Toulon are better but Leinster aren't far off and are capable (or were before MOC) of beating them on any day.

Leinster definitely have a squad capable of expecting a semi every year

Can we guess from 'not far off' we can infer that in a H2H between both squads we'd be picking the Leinster player in approximately a little less than half the cases? And that there'd be only be a few more 'easy decisions' on Toulon's side?

Cause if so, I'd be very interested in you doing a Squad v Squad comparison and coming to the conclusion above.

Heck, put Joe back in charge for the laugh and do the comparison.

awec

TommyOM wrote: »

How many Munster players would get into the Leinster side?

POC, POM, Murray, Zebo, Earls

I still wouldn't say that Munster aren't capable of beating Leinster (evidently)

Healy, O'Brien, Heaslip, Fitzgerald and Kearney would all make Toulon

You're arguing a different thing now. You are now talking about winning one off games, whereas before you were talking about the Leinster squad being up there with the likes of Toulon which leads to expectations of at least a semi final.

molloyjh

TommyOM wrote: »

Toulon are better but Leinster aren't far off and are capable (or were before MOC) of beating them on any day.

Leinster definitely have a squad capable of expecting a semi every year

I've been one of the more vocal MOC critics here over the last while but I simply cannot agree with that at all.

At full strength Leinster have a bloody good front row to call upon. Locks are an issue though with only Toner really top class. Our back row fully fit is very good. But then you come to the real issue. Our half backs simply are not at that level. Sexton was the single most important individual in Leinsters back-to-back titles and neither Madigan nor Gopperth are a patch on him. And we just don't have a quality scrum-half at all. This seriously hampers our back line where Darce isn't what he once was and Mads isn't a top class 12. Fitzy at 13 has been very good, but he's not Drico and with issues from 9-12 his impact is always going to be limited. Our back 3 options are McFadden, the Kearney brothers and Kirchner which are a definite drop from 2-3 years ago. And again the service they get from midfield will limit their effectiveness too.

One area we're definitely better than 2-3 years ago is in general squad depth. We can better absorb certain losses in the squad than we used to. But we can still only name 23 players and those 23 are of a lesser standard overall than they were under Schmidt.

.ak

TommyOM wrote: »

How many Munster players would get into the Leinster side?

POC, POM, Murray, Zebo, Earls

I still wouldn't say that Munster aren't capable of beating Leinster (evidently)

Healy, O'Brien, Heaslip, Fitzgerald and Kearney would all make Toulon

Your right, it isn't ALL about players... Otherwise Toulon would never lose. Remember they started off poorly despite having all star squad.

But the simple fact is we currently suffering from a pretty patchy dip in form, player wise. Even these 'great players' are struggling to play well for Ireland, who playing winning rugby but certainly aren't playing at their best form.

Guy Noves is a brilliant coach and has a sterling squad and budget, but is struggling. Why? It happens, quite a lot actually, in sport that a dominant team can often find it hard to keep a certain level of for an extended period of time... Barca, Brazil, Italy etc.

sydthebeat

TommyOM wrote: »

Toulon are better but Leinster aren't far off and are capable (or were before MOC) of beating them on any day.

Leinster definitely have a squad capable of expecting a semi every year

hell no....

we were beaten around the park last year when we did actually play them, i dont accept for a fact that "on any day" we'd beat them.

and again no, leinsters current squad is definitely not good enough to expect a european semi final every year (for reasons already stated a few posts back)

we will be doing EXTREMELY well to beat bath in April, and to be fair, we came out of the easiest group, we could have been knocked out completely going into the last round of games, and were very lucky to get a home QF

TommyOM

awec wrote: »

You're arguing a different thing now. You are now talking about winning one off games, whereas before you were talking about the Leinster squad being up there with the likes of Toulon which leads to expectations of at least a semi final.

Toulon have expectations of winning the thing.

Leinster should have expectations of a semi finals.

There's the difference, 'up there with the likes' does not equal 'on par with'

There are 3 other teams that would be alongside Toulon and yes I believe Leinster should be one of them every year.

TommyOM

sydthebeat wrote: »

hell no....

we were beaten around the park last year when we did actually play them, i dont accept for a fact that "on any day" we'd beat them.

Under MOC.

and again no, leinsters current squad is definitely not good enough to expect a european semi final every year (for reasons already stated a few posts back)

Name four clubs with better squads.

we will be doing EXTREMELY well to beat bath in April, and to be fair, we came out of the easiest group, we could have been knocked out completely going into the last round of games, and were very lucky to get a home QF

Imagine even last year before MOC took over that someone told you that in a years time people would be saying that winning at home to Bath would be the team 'doing EXTREMELY well'

awec

TommyOM wrote: »

Toulon have expectations of winning the thing.

Leinster should have expectations of a semi finals.

There's the difference, 'up there with the likes' does not equal 'on par with'

There are 3 other teams that would be alongside Toulon and yes I believe Leinster should be one of them every year.

Well then I think you're living in dreamworld. From 2009 -> 2012 has raised your expectations beyond what they should be.

Teams go in cycles. Leinster peaked 2009-12. Munster peaked 2005-2008. Has there been a team in the pro era that has consistently delivered year after year after year? Toulouse have won it the most, but there was a 5 year gap between their 3rd and their 4th win.

Leinster are not a team that have always been competing for trophies. 88% of Leinster's trophies in the pro era were won in or after 2008. Before that it was one Pro 12 13 years ago.

.ak

TommyOM wrote: »

Under MOC.



Name four clubs with better squads.



Imagine even last year before MOC took over that someone told you that in a years time people would be saying that winning at home to Bath would be the team 'doing EXTREMELY well'

Have you seen Bath at all this season? You do realize it's silly to compare situations two years apart?

irishbucsfan

TommyOM wrote: »

Imagine even last year before MOC took over that someone told you that in a years time people would be saying that winning at home to Bath would be the team 'doing EXTREMELY well'

How much of Bath have you seen this season? Are you aware of how good they are in comparison to last season or the season before that? It's a silly thing to try to imagine.

Imagine last season you said that Sale would be pushing for a playoff spot and beating Saracens. Noone can accurately predict the development of a squad consistently.

.ak

TommyOM wrote: »

Name four clubs with better squads.

Toulon, Racing Metro, Sarries, Clermont... I could name more but that's the first 4 that come to mind.

awec

Imagine in 2008 that after being knocked out in the pool stages someone said that Leinster would win the Heineken Cup the next season?

TommyOM

molloyjh wrote: »

At full strength Leinster have a bloody good front row to call upon.

A bloody good one? Name a club with six international front rows as good as Leinsters.

Locks are an issue though with only Toner really top class.

A top class international lock and two solid international locks.

Our back row fully fit is very good.

Once again, two Lions make up the backrow and we've two internationals behind them. Most teams would dream of a backrow containing Heaslip, O'Brien, Ruddock and Jordi Murphy to choose from.

But then you come to the real issue. Our half backs simply are not at that level. Sexton was the single most important individual in Leinsters back-to-back titles and neither Madigan nor Gopperth are a patch on him.

Brock James isn't exactly a Sexton either.

And we just don't have a quality scrum-half at all. This seriously hampers our back line where Darce isn't what he once was and Mads isn't a top class 12.

Yes Leinster are missing a scrum half. And a top class 12.

Fitzy at 13 has been very good, but he's not Drico and with issues from 9-12 his impact is always going to be limited.

Fitzy is so far playing better than BOD was in his final two seasons IMO.

Our back 3 options are McFadden, the Kearney brothers and Kirchner which are a definite drop from 2-3 years ago. And again the service they get from midfield will limit their effectiveness too.

McFadden was a starter for HC wins. Kearney is in excellent form. D.Kearney and Kirchner are drop offs from Nacewa though.

One area we're definitely better than 2-3 years ago is in general squad depth. We can better absorb certain losses in the squad than we used to. But we can still only name 23 players and those 23 are of a lesser standard overall than they were under Schmidt.

I don't deny that, but its not to such an extent that we should be praying to beat Bath at home.

TommyOM

.ak wrote: »

Toulon, Racing Metro, Sarries, Clermont... I could name more but that's the first 4 that come to mind.

Leinster have a better squad than Saracens.

TommyOM

TommyOM wrote: »

Leinster have a better squad than Saracens.

Could you do a comparison for us real quick?

.ak

TommyOM wrote: »

Leinster have a better squad than Saracens.

Oh, that's fact is it?

It may be debatable, but I don't think so.

It's a clear case of you're over egging the players abilities. I'm sorry to say it but just because most of our starting XV have international caps doesn't mean we're world beaters.

We played some seriously special rugby in 2011-2013 but most of that was down to having the best 10 and 13 in world rugby and possibly the best coach too. Under Schmidt we also probably had the best pack too, which is a luxury we don't have currently.

sydthebeat

TommyOM wrote: »

Imagine even last year before MOC took over that someone told you that in a years time people would be saying that winning at home to Bath would be the team 'doing EXTREMELY well'

you DO realize that Bath provide 6 members of the England squad (7 if rocodugui wasnt injured) !!
add to that another 5 members of the saxon squad, including Sam Burgess.

Bath most certainly have the better back line when everyones fit.....

total former

awec wrote: »

Imagine in 2008 that after being knocked out in the pool stages someone said that Leinster would win the Heineken Cup the next season?

Imagine that in 2007 after finishing 3rd in the Celtic League and getting utterly spanked by Wasps in an away quarter-final, we had sacked Michael Cheika at the end of his second season...

molloyjh

TommyOM wrote: »

A bloody good one? Name a club with six international front rows as good as Leinsters.

I'm not sure what you're arguing here. We have a very good front row that is the up there with most other top clubs. I never said any different.

TommyOM wrote: »

A top class international lock and two solid international locks.

Solid is about all that Douglas and McCarthy are. Neither are top class locks by current form and certainly pale next to the likes of Hines, Thorn and Cullen (in his own way).

TommyOM wrote: »

Once again, two Lions make up the backrow and we've two internationals behind them. Most teams would dream of a backrow containing Heaslip, O'Brien, Ruddock and Jordi Murphy to choose from.

Again I'm not sure what you are arguing here. Maybe it's just that I'm not using hyperbolic language, but I'm not putting down our back row which is excellent.

TommyOM wrote: »

Brock James isn't exactly a Sexton either.

Brock James isn't exactly starting for Clermont regularly these days either. Lopez is starting, and he is quality.

TommyOM wrote: »

Fitzy is so far playing better than BOD was in his final two seasons IMO.

In the league yes, in Europe I'm not so sure. That display from BOD in Franklins Gardens was awesome. And while he wasn't making the breaks and that himself as much his ability to facilitate those around him was second to none.

TommyOM wrote: »

McFadden was a starter for HC wins. Kearney is in excellent form. D.Kearney and Kirchner are drop offs from Nacewa though.

I'm a huge fan of Ferg but he isn't as good as Shaggy was, and that's who he replaced.

TommyOM wrote: »

I don't deny that, but its not to such an extent that we should be praying to beat Bath at home.

Bath have been very good this season. Just look at their representation in the English back line for example. I'd still think we should be looking to win because it's a home game but it's a long way from certain.

TommyOM

sydthebeat wrote: »

you DO realize that Bath provide 6 members of the England squad (7 if rocodugui wasnt injured) !!
add to that another 5 members of the saxon squad, including Sam Burgess.

Bath most certainly have the better back line when everyones fit.....

How many Leinster players are in the Ireland squad and Wolfhound squad?

dregin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X40Qfghj5tc

sydthebeat

TommyOM wrote: »

How many Leinster players are in the Ireland squad and Wolfhound squad?

ah come on... even you must understand the player pool available in England.....

TommyOM

total former wrote: »

Imagine that in 2007 after finishing 3rd in the Celtic League and getting utterly spanked by Wasps in an away quarter-final, we had sacked Michael Cheika at the end of his second season...

He deserved to be. That team won eventually because of the sheer talent.