Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread V

dregin

Matt Dawson: "We'll definitely have a terrace in the new stadium"

From Across The Laighin above.

.ak

TommyOM wrote: »

He deserved to be. That team won eventually because of the sheer talent.

Hahah, so when the team win it's because of the players but when they lose it's because of the coach. Whatever suits your argument.

total former

TommyOM wrote: »

He deserved to be. That team won eventually because of the sheer talent.

Oh FFS. I'm out.

total former

I would gladly see Leinster finish bottom of the Pro12 and get hockeyed by Rovigo and Bucuresti Wolves in the Challenge Cup if it weeded out a few of these people from the fanbase.

If we're proposing to expand the RDS to a 25,000 capacity, I think it would be useful to know just how many of our "fans" are likely to bail out at the first sign of only moderate success. Imagine what would happen if we weren't reigning Pro12 champions with a home European quarter-final secured?

Actually, @ TommyOM, are you even claiming to be a Leinster fan?

dregin

dregin wrote: »

Matt Dawson: "We'll definitely have a terrace in the new stadium"

From Across The Laighin above.

What would he know?!

:pac:

Clearlier

total former wrote: »

I would gladly see Leinster finish bottom of the Pro12 and get hockeyed by Rovigo and Bucuresti Wolves in the Challenge Cup if it weeded out a few of these people from the fanbase.

If we're proposing to expand the RDS to a 25,000 capacity, I think it would be useful to know just how many of our "fans" are likely to bail out at the first sign of only moderate success. Imagine what would happen if we weren't reigning Pro12 champions with a home European quarter-final secured?

Actually, @ TommyOM, are you even claiming to be a Leinster fan?

If a high quality stadium with lots of family friendly facilities is built then Leinster easily has the scope to sell out almost regardless of success on the pitch. Sure, a winning team helps but the quality of the facilities offered is more important.

wowy

Anyway....

http://www.dublincity.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=2219/15&theTabNo=1&backURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%20%3E%20%3Ca%20href=%27wphappsearchres.displayResultsURL?ResultID=2938094%26StartIndex=11%26SortOrder=APNID%26DispResultsAs=wphappsresweek1%26BackURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%27%3ESearch%20Results%3C/a%3E

Leinster Branch have applied for permission to build a new gym in Donnybrook at the vacant spot between Wesley and the Dodder.

Seems that they're going to look to get the absolute most out of the new pitch.

total former

Clearlier wrote: »

If a high quality stadium with lots of family friendly facilities is built then Leinster easily has the scope to sell out almost regardless of success on the pitch. Sure, a winning team helps but the quality of the facilities offered is more important.

I was, of course, exaggerating slightly, but I think Munster's experience with Thomond Park highlights the dangers of making long-term plans based on success that may well be transient.

I think the consistently good ticket sales for the Aviva matches, generally regardless of who we're playing, backs up what you are saying regarding facilities being attractive of themselves, but that's two or three games per season, it's a big ask to get an extra 5-10,000 people through the gates of the RDS for the more mundane Pro12 games, and if we're not winning European titles...

ssaye2

Hope I haven't missed anything :pac:

TommyOM

total former wrote: »

I would gladly see Leinster finish bottom of the Pro12 and get hockeyed by Rovigo and Bucuresti Wolves in the Challenge Cup if it weeded out a few of these people from the fanbase.

If we're proposing to expand the RDS to a 25,000 capacity, I think it would be useful to know just how many of our "fans" are likely to bail out at the first sign of only moderate success. Imagine what would happen if we weren't reigning Pro12 champions with a home European quarter-final secured?

Actually, @ TommyOM, are you even claiming to be a Leinster fan?

I really don't know how you have jumped to the conclusion that I am not a 'true' Leinster fan because I have high expectations of the team.

How am I any less of fan than you? No need for such prickish elitism.

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

What would he know?!

:pac:

The "Matt is Mick's son" conspiracy starts here. Both scrum halves. Both called Dawson. Both names start with M. Both are real people. QED.

TommyOM

.ak wrote: »

Hahah, so when the team win it's because of the players but when they lose it's because of the coach. Whatever suits your argument.

I think we saw when Schmidt took over how good that team actually were. Cheika was on MOCs level in my opinion but had a better team.

total former

So what we're saying is that, after missing out on Peter Stringer, Leinster are looking to get Matt Dawson out of retirement as cover during the World Cup?

dregin

Deleted User wrote: »

What would he know?!

:pac:

Stung >_<

total former

TommyOM wrote: »

I really don't know how you have jumped to the conclusion that I am not a 'true' Leinster fan because I have high expectations of the team.

How am I any less of fan than you? No need for such prickish elitism.

Nothing of the sort, just you're a new poster so how would I know which team you support?

So you are a Leinster fan and you'll keep attending matches even if MOC stays on?

Clearlier

total former wrote: »

I was, of course, exaggerating slightly, but I think Munster's experience with Thomond Park highlights the dangers of making long-term plans based on success that may well be transient.

I think the consistently good ticket sales for the Aviva matches, generally regardless of who we're playing, backs up what you are saying regarding facilities being attractive of themselves, but that's two or three games per season, it's a big ask to get an extra 5-10,000 people through the gates of the RDS for the more mundane Pro12 games, and if we're not winning European titles...

You've got to remember though that Leinster's catchment population dwarfs Munster's and we're only talking about similar size stadiums. You're right though, obviously it's not just about the facilities. With no big soccer teams though there's huge potential for Leinster to become the sporting occasion in the capital every time that they play.

TommyOM

total former wrote: »

Nothing of the sort, just you're a new poster so how would I know which team you support?

So you are a Leinster fan and you'll keep attending matches even if MOC stays on?

What suggests I wouldn't?

.ak

wowy wrote: »

Anyway....

http://www.dublincity.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=2219/15&theTabNo=1&backURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%20%3E%20%3Ca%20href=%27wphappsearchres.displayResultsURL?ResultID=2938094%26StartIndex=11%26SortOrder=APNID%26DispResultsAs=wphappsresweek1%26BackURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%27%3ESearch%20Results%3C/a%3E

Leinster Branch have applied for permission to build a new gym in Donnybrook at the vacant spot between Wesley and the Dodder.

Seems that they're going to look to get the absolute most out of the new pitch.

What's the story with UCD then?

total former

Clearlier wrote: »

You've got to remember though that Leinster's catchment population dwarfs Munster's and we're only talking about similar size stadiums. You're right though, obviously it's not just about the facilities. With no big soccer teams though there's huge potential for Leinster to become the sporting occasion in the capital every time that they play.

Yeah, definitely. My concern is that the RDS in its current incarnation is quite family-friendly already but attendances have definitely plateaued (spelling?) after a couple of years of pretty steady increases. Suppose a lot of it comes down to morkeshing.

Clearlier

TommyOM wrote: »

I think we saw when Schmidt took over how good that team actually were. Cheika was on MOCs level in my opinion but had a better team.

If you think that MOC is at the same level as Cheika then I can't understand what the complaint is about unless you don't rate Joe as highly as I do. Schmidt is a once in a generation coach. There aren't a half a dozen of his level out there waiting to be found. A Cheika level coach is excellent. FWIW I don't rate MOC as highly as Cheika yet but he has had to deal with a very different situation.

total former

TommyOM wrote: »

What suggests I wouldn't?

Oh nothing, just a nagging feeling that you were somehow unhappy with the direction of the team, couldn't quite put my finger on it. Well, glad we cleared that up.

TommyOM

Clearlier wrote: »

If you think that MOC is at the same level as Cheika then I can't understand what the complaint is about unless you don't rate Joe as highly as I do. Schmidt is a once in a generation coach. There aren't a half a dozen of his level out there waiting to be found. A Cheika level coach is excellent. FWIW I don't rate MOC as highly as Cheika yet but he has had to deal with a very different situation.

I feel Cheika has come a LONG way but he was a poor coach for those 3 years. Yes he won the Heineken Cup in the same way Kidney won the Grand Slam but I thought Cheika at Leinster wasn't a great coach. He was a great influence to have at Leinster and really changed things for the better regarding attitudes and structures at the club but I don't think he was the coach he was now back then. I feel MOC is on par with Cheika back then.

TommyOM

total former wrote: »

Oh nothing, just a nagging feeling that you were somehow unhappy with the direction of the team, couldn't quite put my finger on it. Well, glad we cleared that up.

Just because I am unhappy with the direction of the team that does not mean I will stop supporting them. I can't believe people like you would even entertain that idea. If you think thats a valid excuse then it is you who is not the real fan.

The Lost Sheep

.ak wrote: »

What's the story with UCD then?

UCD for the Professional squad and academy and Donnybrook for sub academy, clubs players etc. Some of the age grade rep sides use Donnybrook in summer and currently weights rooms et are under the stand

Wesley have had plans to do up their clubhouse for quite a while so this could be part of it as well with Branch still having offices there they'll help fund it.

Clearlier

TommyOM wrote: »

I feel Cheika has come a LONG way but he was a poor coach for those 3 years. Yes he won the Heineken Cup in the same way Kidney won the Grand Slam but I thought Cheika at Leinster wasn't a great coach. He was a great influence to have at Leinster and really changed things for the better regarding attitudes and structures at the club but I don't think he was the coach he was now back then. I feel MOC is on par with Cheika back then.

Just to clarify I was talking about Cheika while he was at Leinster not Cheika now. He was not a poor coach then at all. He had to make a lot of changes to Leinster and they were all necessary in order to progress. What Schmidt did would not have happened without the foundations that Cheika laid. MOC has not reached that level IMO and yet still I don't think he should be fired.

Neil3030

May have already been discussed, but did anyone see the bizarre comments on Against the Head on Monday night, relating to Academy players missing out on the 'education' of playing in the AIL? They then proceeded to show highlights from recent AIL games, in which nearly every game featured an Academy player or two, especially UCD, Lansdowne, Clontarf, etc.

irishbucsfan

TommyOM wrote: »

I feel Cheika has come a LONG way but he was a poor coach for those 3 years. Yes he won the Heineken Cup in the same way Kidney won the Grand Slam but I thought Cheika at Leinster wasn't a great coach. He was a great influence to have at Leinster and really changed things for the better regarding attitudes and structures at the club but I don't think he was the coach he was now back then. I feel MOC is on par with Cheika back then.

I'm not sure I should ask but exactly what was wrong with Cheika as a coach back then?

total former

TommyOM wrote: »

Just because I am unhappy with the direction of the team that does not mean I will stop supporting them. I can't believe people like you would even entertain that idea. If you think thats a valid excuse then it is you who is not the real fan.

That's about as logical as the rest of your posts, but OK.

Some of your fellow MOC-outers have threatened to stop going to the games if he isn't sacked, hence the context. I'm glad we agree that such a position is abhorrent and not something a true fan would do.

TommyOM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'm not sure I should ask but exactly what was wrong with Cheika as a coach back then?

Considering the quality of players that Cheika had at his disposal Leinster did not play to their ability for those years.

irishbucsfan

TommyOM wrote: »

Considering the quality of players that Cheika had at his disposal Leinster did not play to their ability for those years.

That didn't really answer the question about what was wrong with him as a coach at all...

CatFromHue

Neil3030 wrote: »

May have already been discussed, but did anyone see the bizarre comments on Against the Head on Monday night, relating to Academy players missing out on the 'education' of playing in the AIL? They then proceeded to show highlights from recent AIL games, in which nearly every game featured an Academy player or two, especially UCD, Lansdowne, Clontarf, etc.

Yeah I thought the Academy guys played AIL too so was surprised to hear Quinny say that.

.ak

irishbucsfan wrote: »

That didn't really answer the question about what was wrong with him as a coach at all...

For me we wouldn't see the quality we see with Leinster now if it wasn't for Cheiks. Brilliant coach, absolutely turned us around and turned us into winners.

No surprise he's coaching one of the big three now.

Neil3030

CatFromHue wrote: »

Yeah I thought the Academy guys played AIL too so was surprised to hear Quinny say that.

Maybe they don't let Academy players do it down in Munster?

irishbucsfan

CatFromHue wrote: »

Yeah I thought the Academy guys played AIL too so was surprised to hear Quinny say that.

I think he was referring to the fact they're in and out of the AIL teams with academy work and also with the B&I Cup. If they were focused on playing just AIL rugby their standard of play for AIL teams would probably be higher.

Neil3030

.ak wrote: »

For me we wouldn't see the quality we see with Leinster now if it wasn't for Cheiks. Brilliant coach, absolutely turned us around and turned us into winners.

No surprise he's coaching one of the big three now.

Who are the Big 3? Us, Oz and the ABs? :pac:

.ak

CatFromHue wrote: »

Yeah I thought the Academy guys played AIL too so was surprised to hear Quinny say that.

Yeah the only guys that miss out are the ones that get development contracts and don't get released, like McGrath or COS etc.

However, at times, we do have the right not to release players to the AIL. We did it early in the season with our academy props.

TommyOM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

That didn't really answer the question about what was wrong with him as a coach at all...

Well for example, I think our attack was completely blunt under him. I remember even in 2009 worrying about where the tries were going to come from in a Cheika coached team. This was when Cheika had probably one of the best backlines ever seen in the European Cup

Neil3030

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think he was referring to the fact they're in and out of the AIL teams with academy work and also with the B&I Cup. If they were focused on playing just AIL rugby their standard of play for AIL teams would probably be higher.

My take was that they were lamenting the missed opportunity of academy players not getting gametime in the AIL, which doesn't seem to stack up at all.

Clearlier

TommyOM wrote: »

Considering the quality of players that Cheika had at his disposal Leinster did not play to their ability for those years.

The pack that Leinster fielded against Toulouse in that iconic quarter final included Brian Blaney, Will Green, Bryce Willams and Cameron Jowitt. Those were never the makings of a European cup winning team. However when they were replaced by Jackman, Wright, Cullen and Rocky we were in a much better position and duly delivered.

TommyOM

TommyOM wrote: »

Considering the quality of players that Cheika had at his disposal Leinster did not play to their ability for those years.

Can you expand on this?

I'd like you to reference these (Tables ->1, 2), and maybe some of these (matches) and please, please, please a few of these! (Players -> 1,2,3)

Thanks.

Neil3030

Deleted User wrote: »

Can you expand on this?

If you don't mind me stepping in, I certainly can:

O  N      T  H  I  S

:pac:

TommyOM

Deleted User wrote: »

Can you expand on this?


Thanks.

So a second and third place finish in the Celtic league, and 3 results against teams such as Connacht and the Borders is evidence that a team containing Girven Dempsey, Dennis Hickie, Shane Horgan, Gordon D'arcy, Brian O'Driscoll, Felipe Contepomi, Rob Kearney, Jackman, Wright, Cullen, Malcom O'Kelly, Shane Jennings, Keith Gleeson and Jamie Heaslip reaching its heights?

TommyOM

TommyOM wrote: »

So a second and third place finish in the Celtic league, and 3 results against teams such as Connacht and the Borders are evidence that a team containing Girven Dempsey, Dennis Hickie, Shane Horgan, Gordon D'arcy, Brian O'Driscoll, Felipe Contepomi, Rob Kearney, Jackman, Wright, Cullen, Malcom O'Kelly, Shane Jennings, Keith Gleeson and Jamie Heaslip reaching its heights?

I haven't said anything. I asked you to expand on your thoughts, hopefully with some evidence or citation.

Answering a question with a question is odd imo.

TommyOM

Deleted User wrote: »

I haven't said anything. I asked you to expand on your thoughts, hopefully with some evidence or citation.

Answering a question with a question is odd imo.

I think Leinster should have been winning more. I think that team had 2 heineken cups and 2-3 leagues in them. It's no coincidence that after Cheika left Leinster won the HC two times in a row.

.ak

Ha!

Sorry, but that is hilarious! More like without Cheika we'd never have won any.

TommyOM

TommyOM wrote: »

I think Leinster should have been winning more. I think that team had 2 heineken cups and 2-3 leagues in them. It's no coincidence that after Cheika left Leinster won the HC two times in a row.

Recognise any names in the Ospreys side that won the league in 2007?

Bear in mind that we had the title in our hands and blew it.

Would you entire argument fall down if we'd won that match? If so, perhaps it's not a very strong one...

TommyOM

Deleted User wrote: »

Would you entire argument fall down if we'd won that match? If so, perhaps it's not a very strong one...

But we didn't win that match, we lost by nearly 20pts.

irishbucsfan

TommyOM wrote: »

Well for example, I think our attack was completely blunt under him. I remember even in 2009 worrying about where the tries were going to come from in a Cheika coached team. This was when Cheika had probably one of the best backlines ever seen in the European Cup

Alan Gaffney was our attack coach in 2009 and before that under Cheika.

CatFromHue

Neil3030 wrote: »

My take was that they were lamenting the missed opportunity of academy players not getting gametime in the AIL, which doesn't seem to stack up at all.

That was the vibe I got too, that the AIL didn't have any academy players.

TommyOM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Alan Gaffney was our attack coach in 2009 and before that under Cheika.

Cheika holds ultimate responsibility.