Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread V

vienne86

.ak wrote: »

Ha!

Sorry, but that is hilarious! More like without Cheika we'd never have won any.

Exactly - it was the work that had been done by Cheika which put Schmidt in the position of getting the team to winning trophies.

TommyOM

TommyOM wrote: »

But we didn't win that match, we lost by nearly 20pts.

That's why I used the conditional question "Would?". Does your argument fall down with this one failure?

The_Captain

TommyOM wrote: »

Cheika holds ultimate responsibility.

And Cheika's a hero who took a team that was considered talented but lazy/soft, made them play like actual professionals and introduced a real hard edge to their game.

Remember how bad the team was under the Ella/Kidney regimes

irishbucsfan

TommyOM wrote: »

Cheika holds ultimate responsibility.

For the entire team, but you still haven't actually pointed to where he fails as a coach. He wasn't coaching our attacking play directly, Gaffney's flat line attack in 2009 isn't a reflection of Cheika's ability as a coach.

TommyOM

The_Captain wrote: »

And Cheika's a hero who took a team that was considered talented but lazy/soft, made them play like actual professionals and introduced a real hard edge to their game.

Remember how bad the team was under the Ella/Kidney regimes

Well no one is claiming he was as bad as Declan Kidney.

TommyOM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

For the entire team, but you still haven't actually pointed to where he fails as a coach. He wasn't coaching our attacking play directly, Gaffney's flat line attack in 2009 isn't a reflection of Cheika's ability as a coach.

Yes it is. Any other coach would have given Gaffney his marching orders long before.


Anyway I don't see the point of dragging this off topic any longer. You have your opinions and I have mine. Personally I think Leinster underachieved for years due to a succession of bad coaches and that MOC is another bad coach who will underachieve with Leinster.

irishbucsfan

TommyOM wrote: »

Yes it is. Any other coach would have given Gaffney his marching orders long before.


Anyway I don't see the point of dragging this off topic any longer. You have your opinions and I have mine. Personally I think Leinster underachieved for years due to a succession of bad coaches and that MOC is another bad coach who will underachieve with Leinster.

Alan Gaffney was employed by the IRFU as Ireland's backs coach from Sarries and placed with Leinster. The IRFU weren't going to let Gaffney go considering Ireland won a Grand Slam in his first season with Ireland and Leinster won a Heineken Cup in his first season at Leinster!

I don't really believe you're using any legitimate metrics to judge the performance of any of our coaches really. If you think MOC and Cheika are bad coaches then you're going to spend a very long time waiting for a good one, good luck with that!

Kinger83

Was Gaffney responsible for defence also?

Our defence in the 08/09 was excellent in Europe. We only conceded 5 tries throughout the entire campaign.

Swiwi.

Spare a thought for posters with oriental-sounding usernames, who suddenly seem redundant on this thread

We all want Leinster to do well, but I would consider European silverware a bonus rather than a requirement given the current squad and the strength of some of the English & French sides.

Missing out on the Pro 12 playoffs would be poor, though, the league essentially comes down to 3 of the 4 Irish provinces, Scotland A, and the Ospreys.

colster

Kinger83 wrote: »

Was Gaffney responsible for defence also?

Our defence in the 08/09 was excellent in Europe. We only conceded 5 tries throughout the entire campaign.

Kurt McQuilkin was defence coach in 08/09.

molloyjh

dregin wrote: »

Matt Dawson: "We'll definitely have a terrace in the new stadium"

From Across The Laighin above.

Well beaten to it by emmett I see, otherwise horray!

Swiwi. wrote: »

Spare a thought for posters with oriental-sounding usernames, who suddenly seem redundant on this thread

We all want Leinster to do well, but I would consider European silverware a bonus rather than a requirement given the current squad and the strength of some of the English & French sides.

Missing out on the Pro 12 playoffs would be poor, though, the league essentially comes down to 3 of the 4 Irish provinces, Scotland A, and the Ospreys.

Also, what he said.

Kinger83

colster wrote: »

Kurt McQuilkin was defence coach in 08/09.

Ah yes. I think Schmidt initially wanted to keep him on the coaching ticket but he decided to head back to NZ.

ssaye2

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/news/13285.php#.VO379PmsXT8

Ben Marshall who withdrew from the game against Zebre last weekend in the warm up has returned to training this week and is available for selection. Ben rolled his ankle in the warm up and has recovered sufficiently.

Richardt Strauss, Tom Denton and Noel Reid have all come through the return to play protocols and have resumed full training this week, albeit that Richardt is with the Irish squad in Carton House. All three are available for selection for Leinster and in Richardt's case, for Ireland, this weekend.

Shane Jennings was replaced by Ross Molony in the second half with a shoulder injury but is available for selection and Zane Kirchner, who was also replaced in the second half, came through his first game back from injury with no issues and is again available for selection.

Finally, Rhys Ruddock has trained as normal this week and is available for selection for the game on Friday evening.

The Leinster team to face the Ospreys will be announced on Thursday at midday...

TommyOM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Alan Gaffney was employed by the IRFU as Ireland's backs coach from Sarries and placed with Leinster. The IRFU weren't going to let Gaffney go considering Ireland won a Grand Slam in his first season with Ireland and Leinster won a Heineken Cup in his first season at Leinster!

I don't really believe you're using any legitimate metrics to judge the performance of any of our coaches really. If you think MOC and Cheika are bad coaches then you're going to spend a very long time waiting for a good one, good luck with that!

Great Coaches
Joe Schmidt, Warren Gatland, Pat Lam, Jonno Gibbes, Guy Noves, Vern Cotter, Hansen, White, Cheika (now), Coatzee, Chris Boyd.

Decent coaches
Rob Penney, Connor O'Shea, Gareth Anscombe, Cheika (then)

Poor coaches
Matt O'Connor, McGahan, Declan Kidney

ssaye2

Be back after the madness

stephen_n

TommyOM wrote: »

Great Coaches
Joe Schmidt, Warren Gatland, Pat Lam, Jonno Gibbes, Guy Noves, Vern Cotter, Hansen, White, Cheika (now), Coatzee, Chris Boyd.

Decent coaches
Rob Penney, Connor O'Shea, Gareth Anscombe, Cheika (then)

Poor coaches
Matt O'Connor, McGahan, Declan Kidney

that alone would invalidate anything you say by itself. 2 Heiniken cups and a grand slam? What is your criteria, since you have Pat Lam as a great coach and another Heiniken cup winning coach as a decent coach?

SaveOurLyric

ssaye2 wrote: »

Be back after the madness

Agree it really will be depressing heading into another season if MOC is at the helm, and sure would be tempted to give it a miss too.

But still holding out for sanity to prevail and a new coach to be given the reins - so see you next season - hopefully!

total former

ssaye2 wrote: »

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/news/13285.php#.VO379PmsXT8

Ben Marshall who withdrew from the game against Zebre last weekend in the warm up has returned to training this week and is available for selection. Ben rolled his ankle in the warm up and has recovered sufficiently.

Richardt Strauss, Tom Denton and Noel Reid have all come through the return to play protocols and have resumed full training this week, albeit that Richardt is with the Irish squad in Carton House. All three are available for selection for Leinster and in Richardt's case, for Ireland, this weekend.

Shane Jennings was replaced by Ross Molony in the second half with a shoulder injury but is available for selection and Zane Kirchner, who was also replaced in the second half, came through his first game back from injury with no issues and is again available for selection.

Finally, Rhys Ruddock has trained as normal this week and is available for selection for the game on Friday evening.

The Leinster team to face the Ospreys will be announced on Thursday at midday...

Now I don't want to jinx it but does the above update mean that Heaslip is the only senior player currently injured?

CIARAN_BOYLE

total former wrote: »

Now I don't want to jinx it but does the above update mean that Heaslip is the only senior player currently injured?

Isnt darragh fanning injured

irishbucsfan

total former wrote: »

Now I don't want to jinx it but does the above update mean that Heaslip is the only senior player currently injured?

Well now you've ruined it for everyone...

total former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well now you've ruined it for everyone...

I was going to add "... and even Heaslip should be back in time for the next game" but I thought that would really be pushing it.

accensi0n

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Isnt darragh fanning injured

With Ireland, replacing Zebo.

total former

To be injured, Fanning would have to be mortal. As we all know, he is a flame-haired rugby demi god.
(He was training on Monday)

SaveOurLyric

total former wrote: »

To be injured, Fanning would have to be mortal. As we all know, he is a flame-haired rugby demi god.
(He was training on Monday)

Has been called up as backrow cover apparently.

CIARAN_BOYLE

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Isnt darragh fanning injured

Above injur-national standard.

ionadnapokot

Has any1 heard the capacity of the proposed Terracing in the new scheme?
I gather its not going to be 10k but I hope we can see at least 6-7 thousand. minimum 4-5K
http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/news/13282.php#.VO7aOmdybct

.ak

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Has any1 heard the capacity of the proposed Terracing in the new scheme?
I gather its not going to be 10k but I hope we can see at least 6-7 thousand. minimum 4-5K
http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/news/13282.php#.VO7aOmdybct

It will probably be 2k, which would be more than what it is now.

ionadnapokot

:mad:Missed opportunity I think. The lower tier should be Terraced.

.ak

ionadnapokot wrote: »

:mad:Missed opportunity I think. The lower tier should be Terraced.

Missed opportunity how? The figures wouldn't add to increased revenue.

ionadnapokot

"seats" like these are common in stadiums in Germany

ionadnapokot

.ak wrote: »

Missed opportunity how? The figures wouldn't add to increased revenue.

'mosphere

.ak

ionadnapokot wrote: »

"seats" like these are common in stadiums in Germany

The issue isn't that, it's the fact that you can't sell seats like that for the same price as a normal seat.

Buer

I doubt there would be the demand to fill 5k in the terrace. It's good craic but give people the choice and a lot would want seats. They've put a lot of effort into cultivating a family atmosphere in the RDS. Terracing is a no go for people with kids or the more casual fan.

total former

I'd say 2K is the absolute maximum and that's about right I think

.ak

ionadnapokot wrote: »

'mosphere

Yes but the rebuild is based on a business model and it's not just Leinster involved in said refurbishment. They need to look at how they can increase profit, but whilst still keeping the existing atmosphere, which is what Dawson alluded to.

If we all got what we'd want I'd have heated seats and side table beside my seat but alas it doesn't work like that. The key is to improve the current facilities and increase revenue which is good for the RDS and in turn good for us, things like atmosphere are romantics. I think a 2k terrace is plenty.

ionadnapokot

Not sure. terrace is mostly wedged. many of my mates would gladly give up their seats for the terrace.
Fair point on the family thing. But you could still have a family section with the Terrace type seats.

ionadnapokot

.ak wrote: »

Yes but the rebuild is based on a business model and it's not just Leinster involved in said refurbishment. They need to look at how they can increase profit, but whilst still keeping the existing atmosphere, which is what Dawson alluded to.

If we all got what we'd want I'd have heated seats and side table beside my seat but alas it doesn't work like that. The key is to improve the current facilities and increase revenue which is good for the RDS and in turn good for us, things like atmosphere are romantics. I think a 2k terrace is plenty.

eh...atmosphere helps the team! And I certainly don't want a heated seat and side table!!
I get the €..but..

.ak

ionadnapokot wrote: »

eh...atmosphere helps the team! And I certainly don't want a heated seat and side table!!
I get the €..but..

Does it though? Like I said, we'll still have the same amount, if not more, terraced dwellers, and whilst I think they are great in terms of generating atmosphere in the last few months there's been a sort of suggestion that if the terrace was axed then the RDS would have no atmosphere and then in turn Leinster would stop playing well (or worse) and eventually play so badly they'll just be disbanded and the RDS will be one of those creepy abandoned sugar daddy stadiums.

Maybe I'm being a bit hyperbolic, but my point still stands - I don't think the fact we have a terrace or not will make a massive difference to how a professional team play. Aviva doesn't have a terrace and plenty of Leinster players have mentioned how much of a buzz they get from playing from there, despite constant moaning from the fans.

ionadnapokot

.ak wrote: »

Does it though? Like I said, we'll still have the same amount, if not more, terraced dwellers, and whilst I think they are great in terms of generating atmosphere in the last few months there's been a sort of suggestion that if the terrace was axed then the RDS would have no atmosphere and then in turn Leinster would stop playing well (or worse) and eventually play so badly they'll just be disbanded and the RDS will be one of those creepy abandoned sugar daddy stadiums.

Maybe I'm being a bit hyperbolic, but my point still stands - I don't think the fact we have a terrace or not will make a massive difference to how a professional team play. Aviva doesn't have a terrace and plenty of Leinster players have mentioned how much of a buzz they get from playing from there, despite constant moaning from the fans.

You say "Insurance company", I say Lansdowne Rd:)
I firmly believe that a positive atmosphere at games helps a team. There are a few reasons why Clermont and Toulon are so hard to beat in their home patch and I'm sure the crowd play a big part in that.
Success on the pitch will bring success off the pitch etc..

dregin

.ak wrote: »

Missed opportunity how? The figures wouldn't add to increased revenue.

Revenue (profit) is fast taking the front seat ahead of quality of experience for the average punter. Thomond and Ravenhill Redevelopments had a clear aim in favour of the supporters. This RDS redevelopment really seems to be aiming for the corporate crowd instead.

molloyjh

.ak wrote: »

Does it though? Like I said, we'll still have the same amount, if not more, terraced dwellers, and whilst I think they are great in terms of generating atmosphere in the last few months there's been a sort of suggestion that if the terrace was axed then the RDS would have no atmosphere and then in turn Leinster would stop playing well (or worse) and eventually play so badly they'll just be disbanded and the RDS will be one of those creepy abandoned sugar daddy stadiums.

Maybe I'm being a bit hyperbolic, but my point still stands - I don't think the fact we have a terrace or not will make a massive difference to how a professional team play. Aviva doesn't have a terrace and plenty of Leinster players have mentioned how much of a buzz they get from playing from there, despite constant moaning from the fans.

A bit!?

An atmosphere does help performance, I'm sure any of the lads will tell you that. But, and I say this as a committed member of the terrace, you don't require a terrace for atmosphere. You require the people prepared to get involved. The vast majority of SMM is seating with just a small area around the pitch where fans stand. It's not a proper terrace at all, it's more pitch side than anything. And isn't Stade Mayol all seating?

That said I'm delighted that they've confirmed the terrace will be staying and as long as there's enough room for me and my gang each year I'm not sure I really mind how big/small it is.

Buer

I'm sure Toulon and Clermont being two of the wealthiest clubs in the world play a much bigger part in that than any atmosphere. Neither side were much good at all 12 years ago before the cheque books were opened. Great atmosphere can help but I wouldn't say it's close to being a big part of a team's success.

The_Captain

.ak wrote: »

Does it though? Like I said, we'll still have the same amount, if not more, terraced dwellers, and whilst I think they are great in terms of generating atmosphere in the last few months there's been a sort of suggestion that if the terrace was axed then the RDS would have no atmosphere and then in turn Leinster would stop playing well (or worse) and eventually play so badly they'll just be disbanded and the RDS will be one of those creepy abandoned sugar daddy stadiums.

Maybe I'm being a bit hyperbolic, but my point still stands - I don't think the fact we have a terrace or not will make a massive difference to how a professional team play. Aviva doesn't have a terrace and plenty of Leinster players have mentioned how much of a buzz they get from playing from there, despite constant moaning from the fans.

The people who choose to go to terracing are usually the ones who want to stand, sing and shout during the match. By keeping all the noisy fans together, you get songs started up, chanting etc that spreads around the stadium.
If it's all seated, the people who want to sing will end up in with people who just want to sit and watch quietly, it's harder to get the crowd going and it dulls the atmosphere

Buer

The_Captain wrote: »

The people who choose to go to terracing are usually the ones who want to stand, sing and shout during the match. By keeping all the noisy fans together, you get songs started up, chanting etc that spreads around the stadium.
If it's all seated, the people who want to sing will end up in with people who just want to sit and watch quietly, it's harder to get the crowd going and it dulls the atmosphere

Who is saying there should be no terrace?

ionadnapokot

The_Captain wrote: »

The people who choose to go to terracing are usually the ones who want to stand, sing and shout during the match. By keeping all the noisy fans together, you get songs started up, chanting etc that spreads around the stadium.
If it's all seated, the people who want to sing will end up in with people who just want to sit and watch quietly, it's harder to get the crowd going and it dulls the atmosphere

Stadium design also important.
theory comes from a research paper by Thomas Dohmen about home-field advantage in Germany’s Bundesliga, the country’s top soccer league.
Dohmen found that home-field advantage was smaller in stadiums that happened to have a running track surrounding the soccer pitch, and larger in stadiums without a track.
Why?
Apparently, when the crowd sits closer to the field, the officials are more susceptible to getting caught up in the home-crowd emotion. Or, as Dohmen puts it:

The social atmosphere in the stadium leads referees into favoritism although being impartial is optimal for them to maximize their re-appointment probability.
http://ftp.iza.org/dp755.pdf

.ak

Aye, like I'm said; I'm glad they're keeping the terrace, and I'm agreed it does produce atmosphere. That's not what I'm arguing here. My point is that when it's said not having a 5-6k terrace is a missed opportunity I disagree. If we reduced the amount of sellable seats then, in truth, there is no point in the rebuild apart from cosmetics.

I also don't think we'd get more than 2k terraced people in the RDS, such is the nature of the crowd we usually get there - a lot of older people and families.

Also on the point of Ravenhill and Thomond, the terraces are massive there, but also the seating was increased. The stadium designers always have fans in mind, but the business model of any rebuild has to be one of profit first. There is a balance there.

wowy

Don't forget that the stadium doesn't even belong to Leinster Rugby, so it's not as simple as saying a 5K terrace would be great for Leinster Rugby. The stadium belongs to the RDS and they would have no real need for a terrace for any of their uses (horse show & concerts). So even if Leinster wanted to put a huge terrace in there, there isn't a hope that the RDS would agree to it.

ionadnapokot

wowy wrote: »

Don't forget that the stadium doesn't even belong to Leinster Rugby, so it's not as simple as saying a 5K terrace would be great for Leinster Rugby. The stadium belongs to the RDS and they would have no real need for a terrace for any of their uses (horse show & concerts). So even if Leinster wanted to put a huge terrace in there, there isn't a hope that the RDS would agree to it.

I had actually forgotten that. Good point. That makes more sense. Back to D'Brook!

dub_skav

dregin wrote: »

Revenue (profit) is fast taking the front seat ahead of quality of experience for the average punter. Thomond and Ravenhill Redevelopments had a clear aim in favour of the supporters. This RDS redevelopment really seems to be aiming for the corporate crowd instead.

I'm not actually sure what you mean by "average punter" here.
There are far more seats than terrace spots in the RDS currently. So the average punter is in a seat, not on the terrace.

When I go to the matches, I like the option to turn up relatively close to kick off (depending on circumstances, I might not have the option to turn up early), I like to have a hassle free entrance to the ground, I like as little queuing as possible for toilets, food and bars, I like a good selection of food.
These are what are important to me as a punter - not sure if I'm average or not.

The older I get, the more I appreciate a seat, so terracing is not high on my list of priorities.

Things I would like to see improved are the size of the screens and more replays, a better selection of beers and I would like proper glasses (never going to happen for good reason).

So, in order to keep me happy there is very little that needs to be done and certainly no need for additional terracing.

I have no issue with the terrace and certainly chants etc begin there, but I believe its importance is overstated by Leinster's version of the "bleacher creatures" themselves. You could have a music / singing section designated in the seats with similar results for example

ssaye2

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/news/13287#.VO8KtOE9ycs
LEINSTER:

15. Zane Kirchner
14. Fergus McFadden
13. Ben Te'o
12. Gordon D'Arcy
11. Dave Kearney
10. Jimmy Gopperth
9. Isaac Boss CAPTAIN
1. Michael Bent
2. Richardt Strauss
3. Tadhg Furlong
4. Tom Denton
5. Kane Douglas
6. Rhys Ruddock
7. Josh Van Der Flier
8. Jack Conan

16. Aaron Dundon
17. Peter Dooley
18. Royce Burke-Flynn
19. Ben Marshall
20. Dominic Ryan
21. Luke McGrath
22. Noel Reid
23. Darragh Fanning

Referee: John Lacey (IRFU, 42nd competition game)
Assistant Referees: Craig Evans, Chris Williams (both WRU)
Citing Commissioner: Gwyn Bowden (WRU)
TMO: Derek Bevan (WRU)