Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread V

scott1974

scott1974 wrote: »

We never seem to get Nigel for the big games anymore.

We're not good enough for showpiece games!

.ak

awec wrote: »

Leinster by 15+.

I think it's more likely we'll get a LBP. A win of any sort would be unreal.

awec

Easy win for Leinster for sure. 15+ was me being conservative, probably be over 25.

molloyjh

Healy will look to kill anything and everything in front of him. He is not pleased about being second choice behind Jack for Ireland. Cronin was huge for us against Zebre (that he even needed to be ). I wonder how Fitzy feels about being back on the wing. And I wonder how Dave feels about it too!!!

It's a very strong team and I think its sad that people are looking at it and hoping there is a win in them rather than expecting the win. Half the starting XV are first choice and 10 of them are internationals. It's a really strong side and there is more than enough quality there to get the win.

With Luke and Earls invoved this weekend I'm assuming that means that Payne is back training fine? If Mads was needed to run 10 then who else would there be to run 13? Bowe?

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

Easy win for Leinster for sure. 15+ was me being conservative, probably be over 25.

You've seen Leinster play this season right? We haven't even scored 25 points away from home yet this season, much less won a game by that margin. Even for Cardiff away when we got the TBP we only scored 22 points in total and only won by 9 points. A 17 point win away to Zebre has been our best margin on the road.

Buer

Don't worry, Molloy, he's just basing it on how easy Ulster found it last time they played there.



Oh yes. I went there.

Tox56

.ak wrote: »

I think it's more likely we'll get a LBP. A win of any sort would be unreal.

A win would be unreal?! The team we have out is ridiculous for this time of year, we could really really do with a win here and the team reflects that

Zzippy

LBP! With that team Leinster should be ashamed of themselves if they don't win well. Scarlets are strong at home but come on, that Leinster team is packed with internationals, many of them with a point to prove. They need the win or they're in danger of dropping out of the top 4. Plenty of motivation there. Connacht need them to win too. Do it for Ireland!

Podge_irl

That leinster team is better than tbe Scarlets. So all I'll be satisfied with is a win.

Scarlets are let to lose at home in the league this season in fairness!

Ulster & Munster draws the only non-wins.

errlloyd

Fergus McFadden, Gordon D'Arcy, Eoin Reddan, Mike McCarthy, Dave Kearney, Luke Fitzgerald, Cian Healy, Marty Moore, Sean Cronin, Rhys Ruddock.

All of those are players who are either not getting into the Irish 23, when they would be used to getting into the Irish 23, or are in the 23 but getting pathetic gametime off the bench in close games, and possibly aren't trusted. The ones in bold will have also spent the week reading about Earls and his performance, and feel they are even further down the pecking order.

They need to be putting their hands up at this stage, or they risk being forgotten.

molloyjh

Buer wrote: »

Don't worry, Molloy, he's just basing it on how easy Ulster found it last time they played there.



Oh yes. I went there.

Ah yeah but that was opening day rules: Defence is optional.

I'll take a 0-3 win here all day. We have to accept we're probably going to lose 1 more in the run in, most likely Ulster away. Ospreys are home to Munster (I actually think Munster will do us a favour there) but then have Zebre at home and Treviso away. If Leinster lose tomorrow Ospreys will most likely draw level with us on points with 3 rounds to go. And that will be before our trip to Belfast. If we're in that position with 3 rounds left its no longer in our hands. We're dependent on Ospreys to slip up more than us in those 3 rounds.

If we win tomorrow though and Munster do us a favour in Swansea then that daylight makes things just a little more comfortable for us. I don't see us getting a home SF though unless we beat both Ulster and Glasgow.

total former

molloyjh wrote: »

Ah yeah but that was opening day rules: Defence is optional.

http://www.epcrugby.com/matchcentre/29855.php

Buer

molloyjh wrote: »

Ah yeah but that was opening day rules: Defence is optional.

I was more referring to when they spanked Ulster in the ECC not too long ago!

Buer

Zzippy wrote: »

LBP! With that team Leinster should be ashamed of themselves if they don't win well. Scarlets are strong at home but come on, that Leinster team is packed with internationals, many of them with a point to prove. They need the win or they're in danger of dropping out of the top 4. Plenty of motivation there. Connacht need them to win too. Do it for Ireland!

Honestly don't know if you're serious there, Zzippy. Munster, Ulster and Ospreys have all gone there and failed to win this season. Toulon are the only side to do so (excluding the Mickey Mouse Cup).

molloyjh

total former wrote: »

http://www.epcrugby.com/matchcentre/29855.php

Buer wrote: »

I was more referring to when they spanked Ulster in the ECC not too long ago!

I had obviously done what most Ulster fans had done after that game. Deleted it permanently from memory.

chancer12

S12b wrote: »

I read yesterday he was kept in Ireland camp because they needed a 10 to run the drills. Sexton is expected to be fine so it will be Sexton and Madigan on bench again. Madigan was basically the only 10 available for the training session so his involvement this weekend had to be sacrificed.

surely if he's good enough to be running the drills with the national side he could at least make it to the bench for Leinster? He needs the gametime at 10 which MOC won't give him. Look at the difference to the England game when he came on! I know that nobody can equal Jonny but he needs regular gametime. His confidence and kicking are good but he needs game management experience.

Zzippy

Deleted User wrote: »

Scarlets are let to lose at home in the league this season in fairness!

Ulster & Munster draws the only non-wins.

These were the starting teams for Munster and Ulster for those draws

Felix Jones, Andrew Conway, Keith Earls, Denis Hurley, Luke O'Dea, Ian Keatley, Duncan Williams, Dave Kilcoyne, Kevin O'Byrne, Stephen Archer, Donncha O'Callaghan, Billy Holland, Dave O'Callaghan, Tommy O'Donnell, CJ Stander

Louis Ludik, Mike Allen, Jared Payne, Stuart Olding, Craig Gilroy, Ian Humphreys, Paul Marshall, Callum Black, Rob Herring, Wiehahn Herbst, Dan Tuohy, Franco van der Merwe, Robbie Diack, Chris Henry, Roger Wilson

I would expect the Leinster team starting this weekend to beat both those teams comfortably.

In addition, Scarlets had their internationals playing for the Ulster game. Scarlets have a very proud home record, but if Leinster can't beat them with the team they're fielding then it's time to have a serious look at where they're going.

sydthebeat

not up on paddy power yet but i reckon the spread will be around leinster -10

Buer

chancer12 wrote: »

surely if he's good enough to be running the drills with the national side he could at least make it to the bench for Leinster? He needs the gametime at 10 which MOC won't give him. Look at the difference to the England game when he came on! I know that nobody can equal Jonny but he needs regular gametime. His confidence and kicking are good but he needs game management experience.

He has over 50 starts at outhalf for Leinster. Game time is not the issue with Madigan.

errlloyd

Buer wrote: »

He has over 50 starts at outhalf for Leinster. Game time is not the issue with Madigan.

And when they were regular he was getting quietly talked about as a Lions bolter.

.ak

Tox56 wrote: »

A win would be unreal?! The team we have out is ridiculous for this time of year, we could really really do with a win here and the team reflects that

Scarlets have been great at home this season and we're not the All Blacks. I'm sorry if I'm being realistic.

ssaye2

Zzippy wrote: »

These were the starting teams for Munster and Ulster for those draws





I would expect the Leinster team starting this weekend to beat both those teams comfortably.

In addition, Scarlets had their internationals playing for the Ulster game. Scarlets have a very proud home record, but if Leinster can't beat them with the team they're fielding then it's time to have a serious look at where they're going.

They are. The league and Europe are a distraction these days. Celtic Tiger lifestyles are the priority and proper order.

total former

sydthebeat wrote: »

not up on paddy power yet but i reckon the spread will be around leinster -10

Scarlets are slight favourites on Betfair right now so if you really believe that will be the handicap, lump on, hedge your bets and it's free money.

I don't think it will be anything like that sort of handicap.

.ak

errlloyd wrote: »

Fergus McFadden, Gordon D'Arcy, Eoin Reddan, Mike McCarthy, Dave Kearney, Luke Fitzgerald, Cian Healy, Marty Moore, Sean Cronin, Rhys Ruddock.

All of those are players who are either not getting into the Irish 23, when they would be used to getting into the Irish 23, or are in the 23 but getting pathetic gametime off the bench in close games, and possibly aren't trusted. The ones in bold will have also spent the week reading about Earls and his performance, and feel they are even further down the pecking order.

They need to be putting their hands up at this stage, or they risk being forgotten.

Luke couldn't be doing anymore? For me at provincial level he's been the form back in the country. It wasn't long ago he had Henshaw in his pocket in the RDS.

ssaye2

.ak wrote: »

Luke couldn't be doing anymore? For me at provincial level he's been the form back in the country. It wasn't long ago he had Henshaw in his pocket in the RDS.

and Reid had Bundee

Luke has been exceptional imo.

errlloyd

.ak wrote: »

Luke couldn't be doing anymore? For me at provincial level he's been the form back in the country. It wasn't long ago he had Henshaw in his pocket in the RDS.

He obviously could .ak. I don't know what it is, but he's a more naturally talented player than Payne or Jones, so it must be work rate, or high ball proficiency or play making or something.

.ak

errlloyd wrote: »

He obviously could .ak. I don't know what it is, but he's a more naturally talented player than Payne or Jones, so it must be work rate, or high ball proficiency or play making or something.

He's playing as good as he ever was. He literally could not be better.

I don't think that has anything to do with why he's not making the Irish 23.

ssaye2

errlloyd wrote: »

He obviously could .ak. I don't know what it is, but he's a more naturally talented player than Payne or Jones, so it must be work rate, or high ball proficiency or play making or something.

I think they are afraid he may break at test level.

TheGoldenAges

If we have serious prospects of getting a home semi final we need to win, any win would suffice.

Buer

.ak wrote: »

Luke couldn't be doing anymore? For me at provincial level he's been the form back in the country. It wasn't long ago he had Henshaw in his pocket in the RDS.

You say he has been MOTM in his last 2 starts?

I say what about the 10 matches before that?!

I'm sick of the pro-Fitzgerald propaganda!

Tox56

.ak wrote: »

Scarlets have been great at home this season and we're not the All Blacks. I'm sorry if I'm being realistic.

Are you saying its not realistic to expect a win here? Because looking at the team we have out we are clearly more than capable of it. I would say 9 or 10 of that team will be in the starting 15 for the quarter-final with many more on the bench. If we click we can definitely win this game

irishbucsfan

.ak wrote: »

Luke couldn't be doing anymore? For me at provincial level he's been the form back in the country. It wasn't long ago he had Henshaw in his pocket in the RDS.

Well to be fair, Earls is looking absolutely electric as well. I don't think either of those guys are being omitted on form though as you said, looks like it's just very hard to play your way into the squad.

TheGoldenAges

I honestly can't see any back forcing their way into the Ireland squad unless it's enforced due to an injury or a suspension. With the world cup when JS will have weeks with the squad and the warm up games, that's when we'll probably see Ireland's supposed best XV on paper.

Buer

Did Schmidt not already state his preference for Jones in the 23 owes to the fact that he's right footed and gives a better balance to the back line (Fitz is another lefty)?

Zzippy

.ak wrote: »

Luke couldn't be doing anymore? For me at provincial level he's been the form back in the country. It wasn't long ago he had Henshaw in his pocket in the RDS.

IIRC Reid was man of the match that day, Fitz made some nice runs but was coming from out on the wing for those. Leinster had 67% possession and only confirmed the win with a dreadful mistake from Leader in the last minute. Henshaw did a lot of defending that day, yet still carried 10 times for 39 metres compared to Fitz's 9 for 32m. To say he had Henshaw in his pocket is stretching the truth a little. If anything, while he looked lively, he was completely outshone by his midfield partner.

.ak

Tox56 wrote: »

Are you saying its not realistic to expect a win here? Because looking at the team we have out we are clearly more than capable of it. I would say 9 or 10 of that team will be in the starting 15 for the quarter-final with many more on the bench. If we click we can definitely win this game

I'm saying it's realistic that a win would be big for us.

I would say Scarlets are slight favourites. It'll be tight either way.

Team sheets mean feck all, and I'm getting sick of all the 'But look at the amount of internationals on the teamsheet' excuse. Caps don't mean anything when you've only got 4 professional teams in a country.

errlloyd

Zzippy wrote: »

IIRC Reid was man of the match that day, Fitz made some nice runs but was coming from out on the wing for those. Leinster had 67% possession and only confirmed the win with a dreadful mistake from Leader in the last minute. Henshaw did a lot of defending that day, yet still carried 10 times for 39 metres compared to Fitz's 9 for 32m. To say he had Henshaw in his pocket is stretching the truth a little. If anything, while he looked lively, he was completely outshone by his midfield partner.

Just casually remembering the exact numbers. Have you ever played poker?

matthew8

That Leinster side has to be winning. It's close to a first team.

.ak

Zzippy wrote: »

IIRC Reid was man of the match that day, Fitz made some nice runs but was coming from out on the wing for those. Leinster had 67% possession and only confirmed the win with a dreadful mistake from Leader in the last minute. Henshaw did a lot of defending that day, yet still carried 10 times for 39 metres compared to Fitz's 9 for 32m. To say he had Henshaw in his pocket is stretching the truth a little. If anything, while he looked lively, he was completely outshone by his midfield partner.

Defensively speaking I thought Henshaw was definitely in Fitz' pocket. He really struggled, I thought Fitz should've been MoTM and I say that as a big fan of Reid. Henshaw is a tough man to put down but never made much yardage when Fitz got on him.

Zzippy

errlloyd wrote: »

Just casually remembering the exact numbers. Have you ever played poker?

I'm actually Buer's alter ego. His evil, stats-loving Connacht-supporting one...

Buer

I don't think Fitz was MOTM in that game but he was good. It certainly wasn't one of Henshaw's better games. He made a couple of sloppy errors and looked out of sorts. Those stats don't really reflect the game there.

Buer

Zzippy wrote: »

I'm actually Buer's alter ego. His evil, stats-loving Connacht-supporting one...

This is going to end with us fighting at the top of a waterfall, isn't it?

padser

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well to be fair, Earls is looking absolutely electric as well. I don't think either of those guys are being omitted on form though as you said, looks like it's just very hard to play your way into the squad.

Yeah I think that's fair. Joe wanted (wants) something that Jones brings and it's difficult to see him changing that now at this stage of the championship.

I personally find it frustrating because I think Fitz (and actually Earls to a slightly lesser extent) are players you could look to bring on at 60 minutes to look to make something happen. Jones will never be anything other than a replacement because someone is injured.

But, we all know that Joe knows exactly what he is doing and he had thought through what he needs and who he thinks will best deliver it. Right now that's Zebo starting and Jones at 23....

total former

Zzippy wrote: »

IIRC Reid was man of the match that day, Fitz made some nice runs but was coming from out on the wing for those. Leinster had 67% possession and only confirmed the win with a dreadful mistake from Leader in the last minute. Henshaw did a lot of defending that day, yet still carried 10 times for 39 metres compared to Fitz's 9 for 32m. To say he had Henshaw in his pocket is stretching the truth a little. If anything, while he looked lively, he was completely outshone by his midfield partner.

Reopening old wounds here but I think the Connacht fans were very harsh on Leader for that. 99% of the time, you leap up and keep that penalty in play, you're hailed as a hero, and only 1% of the time will you have Kirchner steaming up like he did. The game was lost anyway if the penalty found touch, all Leader cost them was an LBP.

Zzippy

Buer wrote: »

This is going to end with us fighting at the top of a waterfall, isn't it?

There can be only one!

Zzippy

total former wrote: »

Reopening old wounds here but I think the Connacht fans were very harsh on Leader for that. 99% of the time, you leap up and keep that penalty in play, you're hailed as a hero, and only 1% of the time will you have Kirchner steaming up like he did. The game was lost anyway if the penalty found touch, all Leader cost them was an LBP.

You're right, I should have said dreadfully unlucky try, with credit to Kirchner too.

Tox56

.ak wrote: »

I'm saying it's realistic that a win would be big for us.

I would say Scarlets are slight favourites. It'll be tight either way.

Team sheets mean feck all, and I'm getting sick of all the 'But look at the amount of internationals on the teamsheet' excuse. Caps don't mean anything when you've only got 4 professional teams in a country.

Well you also cant completely ignore the quality we have on the teamsheet because Ireland is a small country. As I said above, the side playing tomorrow is 5 or 6 players removed from our first team, internationals or not that absolutely means something, especially with our squad depth.

It's very close to (if not already) a H Cup standard team we are putting out there. The 6 players I wouldn't consider likely to start the H Cup quarter final are: Douglas, D'Arcy, Te'o, Kirchner, Dom Ryan, Jack Conan

.ak

Tox56 wrote: »

Well you also cant completely ignore the quality we have on the teamsheet because Ireland is a small country. As I said above, the side playing tomorrow is 5 or 6 players removed from our first team, internationals or not that absolutely means something, especially with our squad depth.

It's very close to (if not already) a H Cup standard team we are putting out there. The 6 players I wouldn't consider likely to start the H Cup quarter final are: Douglas, D'Arcy, Te'o, Kirchner, Dom Ryan, Jack Conan

You're right but I also think this sort of thinking is a perfect example in how we over-rate our players.

I had an epiphany the other day; what if we're not as good as we think we are? What if it isn't just Leinster + Munster + Ulster + 9 other teams. What if they had every right to be just as good as us?

I just don't think we can expect to turn up on anyone's door step and win anymore, the gaps just aren't as big. We have good players capable of brilliant things but I don't elements like Schmidt, Sexton and BOD made use an outstanding team.

Rugby is one of those sports where you need a lot of key elements for a team to be a solid unit, and without the team being solid you're not going to be head and shoulders above the rest.

I don't think we should be going to Scarlets expecting a win. But do I think we're capable of it? Absolutely.

Tox56

.ak wrote: »

You're right but I also think this sort of thinking is a perfect example in how we over-rate our players.

I had an epiphany the other day; what if we're not as good as we think we are? What if it isn't just Leinster + Munster + Ulster + 9 other teams. What if they had every right to be just as good as us?

I just don't think we can expect to turn up on anyone's door step and win anymore, the gaps just aren't as big. We have good players capable of brilliant things but I don't elements like Schmidt, Sexton and BOD made use an outstanding team.

Rugby is one of those sports where you need a lot of key elements for a team to be a solid unit, and without the team being solid you're not going to be head and shoulders above the rest.

I don't think we should be going to Scarlets expecting a win. But do I think we're capable of it? Absolutely.

Players dont run around with ability levels above their heads so this is a difficult or impossible thing to answer, but I think the evidence that is there does suggest Leinster have a much better than average squad of players to pick from

There were 24 Leinster players in the extended Ireland squad (the country ranked 3rd in the world) for this six nations. That's more than half the squad. In the 23 that beat England, there were 11 Leinster players, pretty much half the squad.

How many club sides have a squad that contributes half of that respective country's international squad? Obviously its not always comparable in countries with bigger populations/more clubs, but as I say, Ireland are third in the world, defending Six Nations champions and unbeaten in the current Six Nations, this isn't Zimbabwe we're talking about. And the three other provinces in Ireland are in the same situation and don't get close to that.

No single club side contributed more to the Lions in 2013 either.

There's also the outstanding academy that contributes way more players to the underage sides than anyone else but that's even harder to quantify so I won't get too far into it, but it is worth mentioning as it does also add a lot of depth.

We do not have a god-given right to win every game we play, but we have (imo) an objectively very, very strong squad, and forgetting everything else and just looking at the two teams playing tomorrow, Im going to expect us to get the job done.