Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread V

awec

ssaye2 wrote: »

Is euro seeding league position starting this year or what?

It's based on positions after the playoffs.

ssaye2

Give the ball to teo or anyone at pace not static or or the back fcuking foot please

ssaye2

awec wrote: »

It's based on positions after the playoffs.

Double problem so for next year

Someone stick up for MOC please. I need a laugh after that.

Tox56

Zzippy wrote: »

Don't think I heard his name mentioned once, for a player supposedly on fire! Earls for the squad spot so...

He didnt do much today, but based on the last few months I dont think in terms of form on the pitch theres much more he could have realistically done. If hes not playing for Ireland there are other reasons behind it.

Schmidt has given some stuff like Jones' ability to get up to the speed of the game off the bench and the need for a right footer in the back 3, and I think the fact Jones is a great kick chaser and was the "incumbent" in that position are big reasons too. I think Fitz is better off concentrating on Leinster for the now and hoping he takes his chance with Ireland when it comes along

ssaye2

Spencer Raspy Veteran wrote: »

Someone stick up for MOC please. I need a laugh after that.

League winning Manager players don't understand aussie slang flaming idiots

vienne86

ssaye2 wrote: »

Double problem so for next year

We have been concerned about making the playoffs - I have serious doubts that we can do that now. And we could be looking over our shoulders in order to make the Champions cup.

irishbucsfan

Zzippy wrote: »

Don't think I heard his name mentioned once, for a player supposedly on fire! Earls for the squad spot so...

Did you think Earls was much better in Munster's game?

Zzippy

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Did you think Earls was much better in Munster's game?

I didn't see Munster's game. Was Earls anonymous too? I can't imagine he was on fire if they lost so heavily...

I was joking really, can't see any changes to the bench for next week barring injury

SaveOurLyric

Spencer Raspy Veteran wrote: »

Someone stick up for MOC please. I need a laugh after that.

Its just one game.
Cant blame the coach for handling errors and poor decisions by the players on the pitch.
All the best players are on Ireland duty.
Needs to be given time to develop his vision of rugby with this squad.
We were sold a pup in Douglas.
The players on the pitch arent near as good as a lot of people think and expectations are too high.
Sexton wasnt playing.
The ref done us.
We are improving and people need to be patient.
Darcy is passed it.
Of course MOC isnt a rugby genius like Joe, no one is.


Is that most of them ?
So clearly MOC is doing a great job. Probably a good time to try to sign him up for another three years before he is poached by Toulon or the All Blacks.

Hagz

I remember in Declan Kidney's last season in charge of Ireland, when Ireland had their worst ever finish in the 6nations. People were claiming it was the final nail in the coffin and that it proved just how unsuitable he was for the job.

I remember thinking to myself what utter boll*x that was. To me, Kidney's last season was completely irrelevant when judging whether he was suited to remain in charge of Ireland. With all the level of disruption he faced during that tournament, it was simply a write off. You can't judge any coach under those conditions.

Disruption makes even the best coaches in world rugby look incompetent. I remember how the infallible Joe Schmidt struggled terribly at the beginning of his final season with disruption. Even a great coach like him was helpless against it.

I refuse to accept what I believe to be lazy calls for Matt O'Connor's head. Not because I believe he is a great coach, but because I don't think you can legitimately judge any coach under such conditions.

I called for Kidney's head like many others long before that woeful 6 nations. Because on multiple occasions the squad of players under him proved they were capable of playing to a very high standard. And yet they consistently failed to do so. This squad of players under Matt O'Connor haven't done that. They have not proved on multiple occasions that they are capable of playing to a much higher standard. I think a lot of people believe they are and that's why they're calling for his head. But I don't think there's a been much evidence to support those beliefs.

corny

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Its just one game.
Cant blame the coach for handling errors and poor decisions by the players on the pitch.
All the best players are on Ireland duty.
Needs to be given time to develop his vision of rugby with this squad.
We were sold a pup in Douglas.
The players on the pitch arent near as good as a lot of people think and expectations are too high.
Sexton wasnt playing.
The ref done us.
We are improving and people need to be patient.
Darcy is passed it.
Of course MOC isnt a rugby genius like Joe, no one is.


Is that most of them ?
So clearly MOC is doing a great job. Probably a good time to try to sign him up for another three years before he is poached by Toulon or the All Blacks.

I know you're joking but i really hate when people say this. Actually you can and you should.

Players make far more mistakes when they're unsure or uncertain as to what they should be doing. Thats a very human trait actually. This is compounded by the inevitable drop in morale. The coaches job is to provide a framework for the players to thrive and anyone who thinks MOC is doing this......well..... i give up.

Neil3030

Posted this a while ago, I'll just post it again:

Neil3030 wrote: »

One of the most enjoyable matches I ever watched Leinster play under Schmidt (for rugby reasons, not for the significance of the result) was the home game to Edinburgh on Friday 13th, 2012. I remember it well, because I watched it in an Irish pub in Rome, who had a feed for TG4, with unseasonable rain pissing down outside. It was just like home!

Anyway, the following team put up a score of 54 points that night, with some of the best rugby I have ever seen any Leinster team play:

15 FB Isa Nacewa
14 W Dave Kearney*
13 C Fergus McFadden*
12 C Gordon D'Arcy
11 W Fionn Carr*
10 FH Ian Madigan*
9 SH Isaac Boss*
1 P Heinke van der Merwe*
2 H Sean Cronin*
3 P Nathan White*
4 L Damian Browne*
5 L Devin Toner*
6 F Rhys Ruddock*
7 F Shane Jennings*
8 N8 Jamie Heaslip
Replacements
16 R Richardt Strauss
17 R Jack McGrath*
18 R Marty Moore*
19 R Kevin McLaughlin
20 R Leo Auva'a*
21 R Eoin Reddan
22 R Noel Reid*
23 R Brendan Macken*

I've highlighted the players who were not the starters at their position, if in the starting lineup, or not the first choice backup, if on the bench.

As you can see, this team is made up mostly of second string players, and a bench of children. Missing are the likes of BOD, Sexton, Kearney, SOB, Healy, Thorn, Ross and Cullen.

I honestly thought that night that Leinster, as a club, were invincible, that our second string could sling it around like the All Blacks.

Also, just to add balance - here is the Edi team from that night, so people can make their own minds up on the standard of the opposition:

15 FB Tom Brown
14 W Lee Jones
13 C Nick de Luca
12 C Matt Scott
11 W Tim Visser
10 FH Greig Laidlaw
9 SH Chris Leck
1 P Kyle Traynor
2 H Ross Ford
3 P Geoff Cross
4 L Esteban Lozada
5 L Sean Cox
6 F Stuart McInally
7 F Roddy Grant
8 N8 Netani Talei
Replacements
16 R Andy Kelly
17 R Robin Hislop
18 R Jack Gilding
19 R Grant Gilchrist
20 R David Denton
21 R Ross Rennie
22 R Phil Godman
23 R Jim Thompson

EDIT: Just remembering that Toner wouldn't have been a starter either - showing my recency bias!

Now I would argue that (a) this team was not as strong as the Leinster team that took the field this evening, factoring in how some players have developed in the meantime, and (b) the Edinburgh team are at the very least on par with the Scarlet's team from this evening, if not stronger.

This is about as good as an example I can find to show that a good coach can deal with disruption - 16 of that match-day 23 would not have been considered a starter in their position.

LostArt

At least we don't have to watch Leinster for three weeks now.

Swiwi.

Hagz wrote: »

I remember in Declan Kidney's last season in charge of Ireland, when Ireland had their worst ever finish in the 6nations. People were claiming it was the final nail in the coffin and that it proved just how unsuitable he was for the job.

I remember thinking to myself what utter boll*x that was. To me, Kidney's last season was completely irrelevant when judging whether he was suited to remain in charge of Ireland. With all the level of disruption he faced during that tournament, it was simply a write off. You can't judge any coach under those conditions.

Disruption makes even the best coaches in world rugby look incompetent. I remember how the infallible Joe Schmidt struggled terribly at the beginning of his final season with disruption. Even a great coach like him was helpless against it.

I refuse to accept what I believe to be lazy calls for Matt O'Connor's head. Not because I believe he is a great coach, but because I don't think you can legitimately judge any coach under such conditions.

I called for Kidney's head like many others long before that woeful 6 nations. Because on multiple occasions the squad of players under him proved they were capable of playing to a very high standard. And yet they consistently failed to do so. This squad of players under Matt O'Connor haven't done that. They have not proved on multiple occasions that they are capable of playing to a much higher standard. I think a lot of people believe they are and that's why they're calling for his head. But I don't think there's a been much evidence to support those beliefs.

To a certain extent I think you're right.

A new coach may do better. But he may do not. There might be a tendancy to over-rate Leinster's current squad and under-rate those of the opposition teams. At the end of the season, though, if not making the Pro12 playoffs, and dipping out at the 1/4 final stage of the ECC, I'd say there's nothing to be lost in trying out a new coaching ticket. But I would agree, there might not be any major improvement in outcome, although Sexton will improve the team for whichever coach in charge.

Do You Even Squat

Hagz wrote: »

I called for Kidney's head like many others long before that woeful 6 nations. Because on multiple occasions the squad of players under him proved they were capable of playing to a very high standard. And yet they consistently failed to do so. This squad of players under Matt O'Connor haven't done that. They have not proved on multiple occasions that they are capable of playing to a much higher standard.

14 - McFadden - Irish international, started the HC Final in 2012
11- Fitzgerald - Lion, Irish international - grand slam and started a lions' test match, one of the best wings in the northern hemisphere
9 - Reddan - Irish international, started 2 HC finals
1 - Healy - Lion, Irish international, one of the best looseheads in the game
3 - Moore - Irish international
2 - Cronin - Irish international
6 - Ruddock - Irish international
21 - Isaac Boss - Greatest player ever

All of the above have produced fantastic rugby during their careers, with Leinster, Ireland and/or the Lions so I am gonna call bullshít on this post

SaveOurLyric

Hagz wrote: »

I remember in Declan Kidney's last season in charge of Ireland, when Ireland had their worst ever finish in the 6nations. People were claiming it was the final nail in the coffin and that it proved just how unsuitable he was for the job.

I remember thinking to myself what utter boll*x that was. To me, Kidney's last season was completely irrelevant when judging whether he was suited to remain in charge of Ireland. With all the level of disruption he faced during that tournament, it was simply a write off. You can't judge any coach under those conditions.

Disruption makes even the best coaches in world rugby look incompetent. I remember how the infallible Joe Schmidt struggled terribly at the beginning of his final season with disruption. Even a great coach like him was helpless against it.

I refuse to accept what I believe to be lazy calls for Matt O'Connor's head. Not because I believe he is a great coach, but because I don't think you can legitimately judge any coach under such conditions.

I called for Kidney's head like many others long before that woeful 6 nations. Because on multiple occasions the squad of players under him proved they were capable of playing to a very high standard. And yet they consistently failed to do so. This squad of players under Matt O'Connor haven't done that. They have not proved on multiple occasions that they are capable of playing to a much higher standard. I think a lot of people believe they are and that's why they're calling for his head. But I don't think there's a been much evidence to support those beliefs.

My calls are not based on the last few games, or even this season.
But the totality of his involvement with Leinster. All games, the style of play, the games they have won(even with bonus points - those 'ugly win' ones), and the stinkers like today, the level of squads available to him, injuries, absences to the Ireland squad, the development of players into the squad, (in)consistency of selection, the tactics employed. And the tournament finishing positions last year, and current positions and reasonable expectations this year.
There are coaches who make a team more than the sum of the parts. And those who put together teams whose individuals are given freedom for their specific talent to win games. And those who make a team less than the sum of its parts : MOC is one unfortunatly in this last group. I am not saying they are a team of all the talents that should be coasting to the ERC and Pro12. But we should be seeing better performances, and more importantly, signs of development and improvement, even with strong 'B' teams as took the pitch today. There is not a shred of evidence to convince that this squad is going anywhere or that MOC is bringing anything to it.

On the Kidney issues. I was well ahead of the curve and laughed at here for suggesting he should have been jettisoned much earlier (the comparison with the current MOC situation is uncanny). Serious questions on his rugby coaching were raised for me as early as 2010. But I certainly would have given him the 3rd six nations. But after that I would have dismissed him and given some one else a run at the world cup. He certainly deserves credit for the grand slam. But it was clear that while he brought the personal, motivational, and team leadership (that in contrast EOS lacked), and injected that something extra (with a does of luck as well) that got us that 2009 championship, it would not have been done had EOS not built the purely 'rugby' foundation for that team. And that momentum sustained itself through 2009, but faded quickly thereafter. I would have sacked him after 6N 2011. And even after the WC were he still there. After that it was pure farce, and I will never understand how he was left there, and cost us two serious tilts at the championship with our golden generation. I couldnt wait to see the end of him.

I do not want Leinster to make the same mistake. The evidence is clear. He cannot cost us another season of mediocrity and lost opportunity.

He must go.

Quint2010

corny wrote: »

I know you're joking but i really hate when people say this. Actually you can and you should.

Players make far more mistakes when they're unsure or uncertain as to what they should be doing. Thats a very human trait actually. This is compounded by the inevitable drop in morale. The coaches job is to provide a framework for the players to thrive and anyone who thinks MOC is doing this......well..... i give up.

This.

molloyjh

Swiwi. wrote: »

To a certain extent I think you're right.

A new coach may do better. But he may do not. There might be a tendancy to over-rate Leinster's current squad and under-rate those of the opposition teams. At the end of the season, though, if not making the Pro12 playoffs, and dipping out at the 1/4 final stage of the ECC, I'd say there's nothing to be lost in trying out a new coaching ticket. But I would agree, there might not be any major improvement in outcome, although Sexton will improve the team for whichever coach in charge.

Next season will be a lean season for us regardless. We'll have so many players away at the RWC and then the 6 Nations and they'll be getting rested in between. Our skills and kicking coach will be with Ireland for most of our pre-season and for the first 2 months of the season plus the 6 Nations. Our forst choice out-half in that period will be a guy who has never played senior rugby (outside of a handful of minutes over the last few years) unless we sign someone in. It's possible Isa is that someone, but Isa is not a 10 and after 2 years out of the game will not be up to that role. Who the coach is won't matter that much for large parts of the season because of what he has to work with. Unless of course he's a top quality coach like Joe was.

This season has been a tough watch but next season could arguably be worse. And I honestly think if MOC is still in charge it very much will be. Confidence must be shot in that squad right now. A little upturn or a couple of weeks in January and now back to this, 1 win from 4 and a total of 8 points from a possible 20. I can't see how we can turn that around next season given the circumstances.

Swiwi.

Swiwi. wrote: »

To a certain extent I think you're right.

A new coach may do better. But he may do not. There might be a tendancy to over-rate Leinster's current squad and under-rate those of the opposition teams. At the end of the season, though, if not making the Pro12 playoffs, and dipping out at the 1/4 final stage of the ECC, I'd say there's nothing to be lost in trying out a new coaching ticket. But I would agree, there might not be any major improvement in outcome, although Sexton will improve the team for whichever coach in charge.

It's not about thinking Leinster should win every match or win Europe every year or whatever, my entire problem is that week after week after week Leinster go out and underperform. There is no way MOC gets the best out of this squad.

sydthebeat

The way i see it is simple.

Is matt o Connor getting the best out of these players?
I think the answer is a firm and staunch no!

Therefore as a coach he is falling in his core duty.

Tox56

Spencer Raspy Veteran wrote: »

It's not about thinking Leinster should win every match or win Europe every year or whatever, my entire problem is that week after week after week Leinster go out and underperform. There is no way MOC gets the best out of this squad.

This is pretty much the entire debate for me. All the other stuff about the squad being over rated or expectations unrealistic or injury and international disruption is becoming pretty irrelevant to me at this stage, I genuinely can't see how the above could be argued and it's unbelievably frustrating

Bridge93

Some people really need to pull their heads out of the sand. Fair enough you don't think he should be let go that's fine but some of the arguments are ridiculous. The one that really pisses me off is this we are not as good as some suggest. Obviously not but for god sake would you watch the rubbish on the field. We are a long way better than that crap. Players aren't good enough? Get over yourselves, they're not european champions good but they are easily the best in the league and comfortably better then they are playing.

MOC has his little fan club that won't change, same as there are those who were calling for his head too early and would never change but I simply cannot understand how some seem willing to except this rubbish and mediocrity. We are 5th in the most average league of the 3 major leagues in Europe. The four teams above us have all had injury troubles too.


I might add I at the minute don't want him to be sacked for no other reason than a new coach during the World Cup period would be utter chaos.

George Hook

corny wrote: »

I know you're joking but i really hate when people say this. Actually you can and you should.

Players make far more mistakes when they're unsure or uncertain as to what they should be doing. Thats a very human trait actually. This is compounded by the inevitable drop in morale. The coaches job is to provide a framework for the players to thrive and anyone who thinks MOC is doing this......well..... i give up.

Was going to post the same thing, kudos to you!

.ak

Bridge93 wrote: »

Some people really need to pull their heads out of the sand. Fair enough you don't think he should be let go that's fine but some of the arguments are ridiculous. The one that really pisses me off is this we are not as good as some suggest. Obviously not but for god sake would you watch the rubbish on the field. We are a long way better than that crap. Players aren't good enough? Get over yourselves, they're not european champions good but they are easily the best in the league and comfortably better then they are playing.

MOC has his little fan club that won't change, same as there are those who were calling for his head too early and would never change but I simply cannot understand how some seem willing to except this rubbish and mediocrity. We are 5th in the most average league of the 3 major leagues in Europe. The four teams above us have all had injury troubles too.


I might add I at the minute don't want him to be sacked for no other reason than a new coach during the World Cup period would be utter chaos.

What's this MOC fan club? I've yet to see anyone come out and say he's a great coach and he's doing no wrong. I mean, to be in a fan club you'd have to be a fan, right?

What I am seeing is people being reasoned and understanding that a new coach won't solve our problems.

irishbucsfan

Tox56 wrote: »

This is pretty much the entire debate for me. All the other stuff about the squad being over rated or expectations unrealistic or injury and international disruption is becoming pretty irrelevant to me at this stage, I genuinely can't see how the above could be argued and it's unbelievably frustrating

The team aren't playing to their potential, but the problem is that some people think that can only possibly mean the coach is the problem, whereas I myself have seen well coached teams have the same problems in the past. That's why I look at Ospreys under Jones/Holley or ourselves under Cheika, and think we have the same problems. I think our shortcomings draw more of a parallel to examples such as those than it does to other situations where coaches have been the problem.

stephen_n

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The team aren't playing to their potential, but the problem is that some people think that can only possibly mean the coach is the problem, whereas I myself have seen well coached teams have the same problems in the past. That's why I look at Ospreys under Jones/Holley or ourselves under Cheika, and think we have the same problems. I think our shortcomings draw more of a parallel to examples such as those than it does to other situations where coaches have been the problem.

What exactly is the coach responsible for in your opinion? When does it become a coaching issue?

The issue for me, is that our levels of execution have consistently diminished since MOC took over, we are not performing the basics of the game to an increasingly poor level. It's not even a tactical issue anymore, it's like watching 15 players who have never met before turning up and playing together, that is a coaching issue in my opinion, not just O'Connor but all the coaches have to be responsible and the players too but if a head coach takes the plaudits when it works, surely he's responsible when it fails.

irishbucsfan

stephen_n wrote: »

What exactly is the coach responsible for in your opinion? When does it become a coaching issue?

The issue for me, is that our levels of execution have consistently diminished since MOC took over, we are not performing the basics of the game to an increasingly poor level. It's not even a tactical issue anymore, it's like watching 15 players who have never met before turning up and playing together, that is a coaching issue in my opinion, not just O'Connor but all the coaches have to be responsible and the players too but if a head coach takes the plaudits when it works, surely he's responsible when it fails.

But of course it's not like watching 15 players who have never met before just turning up and playing together. That's the sort of nonsensical argument that makes any discussion on the issues completely pointless at this point.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

But of course it's not like watching 15 players who have never met before just turning up and playing together. That's the sort of nonsensical argument that makes any discussion on the issues completely pointless at this point.

Ah come on - it's an exaggeration but the point is clear with regards to most of Leinsters performances this year. Even on the rare occasions when we're on top of teams - we regularly fail to convert possession and dominance into scoring opportunities, or scoring opportunities into actual scores.

How many times this season would you say "that was a well worked try by Leinster"..? The answer is rarely.

LostArt

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah come on - it's an exaggeration but the point is clear with regards to most of Leinsters performances this year. Even on the rare occasions when we're on top of teams - we regularly fail to convert possession and dominance into scoring opportunities, or scoring opportunities into actual scores.

How many times this season would you say "that was a well worked try by Leinster"..? The answer is rarely.

After last nights game I found myself thinking about how well worked the Scarlets tries were and trying to remember similar Leinster tries this season. There's not a whole lot!

total former

LostArt wrote: »

After last nights game I found myself thinking about how well worked the Scarlets tries were and trying to remember similar Leinster tries this season. There's not a whole lot!

Te'o's try yesterday was well worked.

.ak

IMO any try bar an interception is a well worked try. People are often very unappreciative of the requirements required to apply enough pressure to get a try. It doesn't all have to be pretty first phase play.

LostArt

total former wrote: »

Te'o's try yesterday was well worked.

Indeed it was and at times we look like things are clicking, but mostly we go back to one off runners, recycle and repeat.

stephen_n

irishbucsfan wrote: »

But of course it's not like watching 15 players who have never met before just turning up and playing together. That's the sort of nonsensical argument that makes any discussion on the issues completely pointless at this point.

I think you're intelligent enough to figure out what I mean.

.ak

.ak wrote: »

IMO any try bar an interception is a well worked try. People are often very unappreciative of the requirements required to apply enough pressure to get a try. It doesn't all have to be pretty first phase play.

Not at all - but I would consider a well worked try to be one off the back of a series of well executed phases where you can go back and identify where the initial build started and identify the movement of players to support the movement of the ball.

You can see Leinster *trying* to do this at times but our execution is dire.

The rest of the time we look unsure and lacking in confidence. Even our usually solid defense is starting to badly leak (as it did just this weekend).

Out intensity levels are also way off. We couldn't even get ourselves up for playing Munster this season.

The blame for each specific issue can be pointed in a variety of directions but the collective failures are a coaching issue in my opinion.

stephen_n

.ak wrote: »

IMO any try bar an interception is a well worked try. People are often very unappreciative of the requirements required to apply enough pressure to get a try. It doesn't all have to be pretty first phase play.

The problem isn't we arent creating well worked tries, well at least it's not the main one. The problems are execution of the basics, having an effective kicking game, creating contestable kicks (actually contesting them when you do), moving beyond three phases without losing all structure, retaining the ball at rucks through multiple phases, being able to pass the ball without knocking on, to name but a few. Saying individual tries are well worked is like clinging to a matchstick, when the ship is sinking.

total former

LostArt wrote: »

Indeed it was and at times we look like things are clicking, but mostly we go back to one off runners, recycle and repeat.

Right.

But you don't have to think too hard for more well worked tries.

.ak

Deleted User wrote: »

Not at all - but I would consider a well worked try to be one off the back of a series of well executed phases where you can go back and identify where the initial build started and identify the movement of players to support the movement of the ball.

You can see Leinster *trying* to do this at times but our execution is dire.

The rest of the time we look unsure and lacking in confidence. Even our usually solid defense is starting to badly leak (as it did just this weekend).

Out intensity levels are also way off. We couldn't even get ourselves up for playing Munster this season.

The blame for each specific issue can be pointed in a variety of directions but the collective failures are a coaching issue in my opinion.

But what are the tries if not well worked?

matthew8

Yesterday we had a couple of nice backs moves that deserved tries (only one got the try) but defended softly, last week we had no ideas in attack, often there have been big handling problems, ruck protection problems or set piece problems. The team has barely put in a complete performance all year. Still think we'll beat Bath though, the intensity always seems to be a bit better with the Irish starters in the team (and Bath have also been brutal lately). The Ulster result today was great for Leinster, they still have to visit Glasgow and Connacht which are tough games so you'd imagine if we can win there we can make the playoffs. Glasgow are too far ahead to catch, Ospreys have a ridiculously easy run in and Munster also have a decent run in so they don't look like they can be caught.

.ak

.ak wrote: »

But what are the tries if not well worked?

We have the best squad in the pro12. We are going to score tries. But we seem to make hard work of it. As I said, even when we are clearly in the driving seat and dominating we struggle to convert chances.

Like a 100m hurdler that wins races but hits every single hurdle due to poor technique. Imagine what he could do if he was clearing them?

Out of interest, do you think we are performing well, performing to standard, under performing or seriously under performing?

JacquesDeLad

The way Leinster are playing lately I think they wouldn't do much worse if they just met in the carpark before the match without a coach and worked out a gameplan themselves. MOC is just the wrong guy, in the wrong job, at the wrong time.

padser

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The team aren't playing to their potential, but the problem is that some people think that can only possibly mean the coach is the problem.

Yes.

Because that's the very definition of the primary role of a coach. To get the best out of the players at his disposal. Any team playing below the sum of the potential of their players is, by definition, badly coached.

Leinster are, and have been for some time, playing way below the potential of the players we have. The responsibility for that lies with the coach. It must do, because that's the definition of his job.

.ak

Deleted User wrote: »

We have the best squad in the pro12. We are going to score tries. But we seem to make hard work of it. As I said, even when we are clearly in the driving seat and dominating we struggle to convert chances.

Like a 100m hurdler that wins races but hits every single hurdle due to poor technique. Imagine what he could do if he was clearing them?

Blooded part is debatable.

Out of interest, do you think we are performing well, performing to standard, under performing or seriously under performing?

Under performing. I don't think anyone would disagree.

The issue I have is people think bringing in another coach will fix that.

LostArt

Out of interest, are many here not renewing their season tickets?

Bridge93

It's total nonsense to even suggest we don't have the best squad in the Pro12.
No debate needed.

sydthebeat

Bridge93 wrote: »

It's total nonsense to even suggest we don't have the best squad in the Pro12.
No debate needed.

Personally I think Glasgows is better

Bridge93

sydthebeat wrote: »

Personally I think Glasgows is better

It really isn't, and as a result they've never won anything or got out of their group in Europe. Some if their players could be stars but not yet

Run through player by player and there is only 3/4 squads in Europe that have more depth than we do.
Glasgow have an excellent team.

sydthebeat

Bridge93 wrote: »

It really isn't, and as a result they've never won anything or got out of their group in Europe. Some if their players could be stars but not yet

Run through player by player and there is only 3/4 squads in Europe that have more depth than we do.

Well that's your opinion which you're entitled to.

But again my opinion is that Glasgow have a better squad of players. ... which is reflected in their league position and their contribution to the Scottish national side.

molloyjh

.ak wrote: »

The issue I have is people think bringing in another coach will fix that.

Do they though? How many people have said that if MOC is replaced all of our problems will go away and we'll win European Cups again and everything will be dandy? From what I can see most people are saying MOC isn't doing a good enough job and should not be retained beyond this season because of this, which is totally different to what you're suggesting above.

Firing someone who isn't up to the job won't necessarily fix things. Keeping them on certainly won't. And if people don't think MOC is up to the job then it's entirely logical for them to look for his head. Going off and making more out of it like you're doing is not on any way constructive in the debate.

SaveOurLyric

LostArt wrote: »

Out of interest, are many here not renewing their season tickets?

Might be handier if we compile a list of those with current season tickets who will renew. Shorter list.
Until the big announcement anyway.