Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread V

former legend

vienne86 wrote: »

I only saw 20 minutes of the game, but I recorded it. Thinking I might now watch the whole thing later.

So this weekend, we performent worst of the provinces. We are three points adrift of top 4 spots and Connacht are just one point behind us. Right.

And we have Ospreys in the RDS this coming weekend.

Not good at all.

I confidently predict a bonus point win against the Ospreys. We will be a totally different team on Friday.

The optimism train starts here. Get on board!

vienne86

former legend wrote: »

I confidently predict a bonus point win against the Ospreys. We will be a totally different team on Friday.

The optimism train starts here. Get on board!

Hard to visualise after yesterday, but we have a season to get on with, so let's make the best of it.

.ak

former legend wrote: »

I confidently predict a bonus point win against the Ospreys. We will be a totally different team on Friday.

The optimism train starts here. Get on board!

I think it'll be a great game, as it was last season. I think DK always has a rusty game after a layoff, the pack will be a bit more solid and defensively we won't be as naive again. I can definitely see us picking up the performance. A TBP win might be step too far though.

thomond2006

Ospreys won't have their Welsh players and Leinster should have a few internationals available like Cronin and Reddan.

dregin

.ak wrote: »

That's it. If MOC started reacting to a bad game like that he'd be coaching minis. Plus Madigan is probably gonna be on the player welfare scheme, he's play a load of minutes.

There's reacting to a bad game after the fact and not giving Marsh even 20 minutes. Still can't believe Gopperth lasted the full 80.

Dravokivich

dregin wrote: »

There's reacting to a bad game after the fact and not giving Marsh even 20 minutes. Still can't believe Gopperth lasted the full 80.

I think our bench was mainly used to manage injuries though? He never really intended on using it for a fresh set of legs by the looks of things.

dregin

Dravokivich wrote: »

I think our bench was mainly used to manage injuries though? He never really intended on using it for a fresh set of legs by the looks of things.

Gopperth didn't look particularly tired. He was just having a nightmare.

former legend

dregin wrote: »

There's reacting to a bad game after the fact and not giving Marsh even 20 minutes. Still can't believe Gopperth lasted the full 80.

Wouldn't defend Gopperth's performance at all but throwing Marsh in for his senior debut with twenty minutes to go in THAT game would have been lunacy.

molloyjh

former legend wrote: »

Wouldn't defend Gopperth's performance at all but throwing Marsh in for his senior debut with twenty minutes to go in THAT game would have been lunacy.

Why? Gopperth was having an awful, awful game. And we were hardly away to a top quality team. If not the worst team in the league when you're starting out-half is having a woeful day then when?

BoardsMember

molloyjh wrote: »

Why? Gopperth was having an awful, awful game. And we were hardly away to a top quality team. If not the worst team in the league when you're starting out-half is having a woeful day then when?

Ideally when playing at home, with 20 mins to go and the BP in the bag.

molloyjh

BoardsMember wrote: »

Ideally when playing at home, with 20 mins to go and the BP in the bag.

So with 10 minutes to go yesterday when we were winning with the TBP point in the bag against the worst team in the league and with our 10 playing badly it would have been lunacy to make that change? Really? Especially when we will need Marsh next season with Sexton and Mads at the RWC and Gopperth back in England?

.ak

former legend wrote: »

Wouldn't defend Gopperth's performance at all but throwing Marsh in for his senior debut with twenty minutes to go in THAT game would have been lunacy.

Wouldn't be his senior debut. He came on for Sexton against Zebre a few years back irc. The game that BOD captained.

.ak

molloyjh wrote: »

So with 10 minutes to go yesterday when we were winning with the TBP point in the bag against the worst team in the league and with our 10 playing badly it would have been lunacy to make that change? Really? Especially when we will need Marsh next season with Sexton and Mads at the RWC and Gopperth back in England?

I think it would've been a risk, yes. Gopps was having a mare with the boot but he was still managing half breaks. Didn't he manage to swim past a defender to that resulted in McGrath's break?

I think the awful DG attempt was the icing on the cake, but I don't think Marsh would've rescued the situation. We had the game by the hairs when Fanning went over for his 2nd. We should've pressed on and I don't think changing the 10 would've made a difference to why we let the last try in.

former legend

.ak wrote: »

Wouldn't be his senior debut. He came on for Sexton against Zebre a few years back irc. The game that BOD captained.

Fair enough. Not sure how much that would have stood to him. I don't think any other coach would have done differently tbh.

Gopperth was poor but he wasn't the reason we didn't win, certainly not the only reason anyway.

.ak

former legend wrote: »

Fair enough. Not sure how much that would have stood to him. I don't think any other coach would have done differently tbh.

Gopperth was poor but he wasn't the reason we didn't win, certainly not the only reason anyway.

No, sorry I should've made the point I was just being pedantic. I wouldn't have brought him on either, unless we scored another try.

BoardsMember

molloyjh wrote: »

So with 10 minutes to go yesterday when we were winning with the TBP point in the bag against the worst team in the league and with our 10 playing badly it would have been lunacy to make that change? Really? Especially when we will need Marsh next season with Sexton and Mads at the RWC and Gopperth back in England?

I wouldn't call it lunacy, but from a coaches perspective I can see how it might be more prudent not to give him a run in the situation they found themselves in.

molloyjh

BoardsMember wrote: »

I wouldn't call it lunacy, but from a coaches perspective I can see how it might be more prudent not to give him a run in the situation they found themselves in.

Listen, I fully agree with the lads above that Gopperth wasn't the only reason we lost, and he does get far too much stick from Leinster fans in general. But I just don't see how leaving a guy who was in really poor form (and injured let's not forget, he was off the field for a few minutes getting his head bandaged up) against poor opposition was "prudent", or how giving Marsh time in that situation would have been "lunacy" as fl put it.

I can understand the choice though, even if I'm not sure I agree with it. At some point risks need to be taken and in cases where your 10 isn't playing well (and isn't the winning or losing of the game), you're leading and the opposition are weak then that's the time to be taking those risks. Especially when it's a guy you're quite possibly going to have to rely on in 9 or 10 months.

What did Gopperth offer in those last 10 minutes that Marsh wouldn't have for example that make the decision such a prudent one?

.ak

It's just that Gopperth has experience and Marsh does not. Gopperth has done the business for us in tight fixtures before so the odds were on for Gopps and against Marsh. Playing the percentages.

I'd imagine even Joe would've kept Gopperth on in that situation unless we pulled away.

molloyjh

.ak wrote: »

It's just that Gopperth has experience and Marsh does not. Gopperth has done the business for us in tight fixtures before so the odds were on for Gopps and against Marsh. Playing the percentages.

I'd imagine even Joe would've kept Gopperth on in that situation unless we pulled away.

Possibly, but we've spoken before in other threads about the experience over youth thing. I think yesterday we were right on the line of where you go with the youth over the experience. There was just so much going against the experienced player as the game wore on. At what point do you cross that line? At what point does a change, any change, become the less risky option?

It's not something I'm particularly annoyed about. More curious and slightly disappointed over. If we had made the change and lost it would have been hard to knock MOC for making the change, so bad was Gopperths form yesterday. Although I fully admit many would have tried...

.ak

molloyjh wrote: »

Possibly, but we've spoken before in other threads about the experience over youth thing. I think yesterday we were right on the line of where you go with the youth over the experience. There was just so much going against the experienced player as the game wore on. At what point do you cross that line? At what point does a change, any change, become the less risky option?

It's not something I'm particularly annoyed about. More curious and slightly disappointed over. If we had made the change and lost it would have been hard to knock MOC for making the change, so bad was Gopperths form yesterday. Although I fully admit many would have tried...

At the point we start losing the game badly and then you can throw caution to the wind. But with 10 min left on the clock we were winning iirc. You keep your number one on and hope we can close out the game. It wasn't him that let them back in, for example.

molloyjh

.ak wrote: »

At the point we start losing the game badly and then you can throw caution to the wind. But with 10 min left on the clock we were winning iirc. You keep your number one on and hope we can close out the game. It wasn't him that let them back in, for example.

No I know, which I mentioned earlier. And I do get the logic. I'm just saying that at some point that crossing your fingers and hoping for the best option goes from being prudent and sensible to risky and dangerous. I think we were in and around that line yesterday such was Gopperths form, particularly in the last 20 mins.

If you wait until we're losing the game badly then you've probably waited too long and if you wait until we're winning the game well you might not ever get there. There has to be something in between.

.ak

Yeah, you're right, my point is it was just less of a risk.

molloyjh

.ak wrote: »

Yeah, you're right, my point is it was just less of a risk.

And for the record I'm not completely disagreeing. I'm just not as convinced as you are that it was less of a risk. I think it was pretty marginal.

phog

MOC is a guest on Against the Head tonight.

Quint2010

phog wrote: »

MOC is a guest on Against the Head tonight.

The gall of him...

SaveOurLyric

Quint2010 wrote: »

The gall of him...

Bated breath for an on air resignation.........

Dravokivich

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Bated breath for an on air resignation.........

Why would he? And more importantly why would you want him to?

Things got better at the end of last season, so he shows some sort of ability to progress and get results. Sure its a pain that the rough patches stand out so much and knowing that the team overall should be capable of better, but calling for someone to stand down isn't going to change that.

BoardsMember

He's the definition of charmless, not very much likeable at all about him.

Bridge93

.ak wrote: »

At the point we start losing the game badly and then you can throw caution to the wind. But with 10 min left on the clock we were winning iirc. You keep your number one on and hope we can close out the game. It wasn't him that let them back in, for example.

He isn't the reason alone that we didnt win but he was a large chunk. And he was very nearly the reason we lost with that clearance kick at the end. If Treviso had a place kicker we were done.
For all lack of experience i would have been suprised if Marsh had done something that moronic. Sure thats where is supposed experience would kick in and close the game out. Missing drop goals happens, even if it was a particularly easy one.

molloyjh

BoardsMember wrote: »

He's the definition of charmless, not very much likeable at all about him.

What does that matter? I mean who cares about the guys personality? The job isn't a popularity contest.

Synode

98fm reporting that Leinster are looking to get Henshaw

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

What does that matter? I mean who cares about the guys personality? The job isn't a popularity contest.

You have to feel for MOC and Gopperth.

Gopperth has come in and done a good job for us, not perfect - but he works hard. Despite this, because he has gone ahead of the "heir apparent" in the pecking order he is demonised.

Same with MoC. The team has gone backwards because we've lost good players and because we've lost an almost uniquely exceptional coaching ticket. MoC himself has still delivered a pro12 and a decent showing in the HC in a tough group.

Think everyone needs to sit back and support the team and the coach and see where we are at the end of the season. If things haven't worked out then fair enough, but hoping the coach bails on air mid season...

Me thinks a lot of people don't remember what Leinster were like before 2007.

Zzippy

Synode wrote: »

98fm reporting that Leinster are looking to get Henshaw

He's under contract for another season after this, so it would be nearly 2 years til Leinster could get their hands on him. But we might let him go in exchange for Madigan

molloyjh

Deleted User wrote: »

You have to feel for MOC and Gopperth.

Gopperth has come in and done a good job for us, not perfect - but he works hard. Despite this, because he has gone ahead of the "heir apparent" in the pecking order he is demonised.

Same with MoC. The team has gone backwards because we've lost good players and because we've lost an almost uniquely exceptional coaching ticket. MoC himself has still delivered a pro12 and a decent showing in the HC in a tough group.

Think everyone needs to sit back and support the team and the coach and see where we are at the end of the season. If things haven't worked out then fair enough, but hoping the coach bails on air mid season...

Me thinks a lot of people don't remember what Leinster were like before 2007.

I'm going to say it: I like Jimmy. I think he's been very poorly treated by some sections of the Leinster support and his form this season is way above what some people claim it is. He had a really bad day at the office on Sunday and I do want to see Mads get a run at 10 this weekend, but people need to lay off Jimmy. The guy is not a superstar 10, but we were never going to get a superstar. After all how many people out there are at that level in that position!? He's an honest, hard working player with a decent skill set and a pretty damn good attitude. We could do worse than hold on to him for next season, he's the one that could do better.

As for MOC my position has remained pretty consistent for the last 12 months. I have my concerns, but feel he should be given until Christmas this year before we make any kind of decision. The logic behind that is that if we decide he's not doing enough we'll have the time to find and sort a replacement. There's no point in making decisions like that at the end of a season because then you limit your options going into the following season. Given the injury situation this season that might sound a little harsh, and until Sunday I would have agreed. But we were so bad on Sunday, so rudderless and lacking in any kind of structure against the worst team in the league, that I'm finding it really hard to look beyond that game.

We now have a hugely important 5-6 weeks ahead. Our cup and league seasons may well be defined by these few weeks. And for me MOCs future will be defined by them. If we lose 2 or more of the upcoming league games we could find ourselves in real trouble in the league. If we come out second best in the Quins double-header we could find ourselves in real trouble in Europe too. Should both of those come to pass I will (finally) nail my colours to the mast and start calling for MOCs head. However, if we manage to come out the right side of the next few weeks then at the very, very least that buys MOC time.

vienne86

I missed ATH, but will watch a recording. BOD just briefly mentions MOC in his book - very different to Joe. He slagged people off for errors rather than just gave out to them, but one thing he liked was that MOC was just great fun. I must say, I don't care what sort of personality he has so long as he does the job, and for me, the jury is still out on that one.

sydthebeat

Zzippy wrote: »

He's under contract for another season after this, so it would be nearly 2 years til Leinster could get their hands on him. But we might let him go in exchange for Madigan

is it not possible in rugby to buy out contracts similarly to soccer?

which means players are more valuable at the start of their contracts than at the end.

vienne86

Zzippy wrote: »

He's under contract for another season after this, so it would be nearly 2 years til Leinster could get their hands on him. But we might let him go in exchange for Madigan

It might be down to the guy himself - guys have shifte before while still in contract - Andrew Conway for one.

Sangre

Zzippy wrote: »

He's under contract for another season after this, so it would be nearly 2 years til Leinster could get their hands on him. But we might let him go in exchange for Madigan

Not really relevant given its Leinster, Connacht and IRFU. The parties could mutually agree to walk away from contract (assuming Henshaw wants to).

awec

If I was a Connacht fan I would be furious if it happened tbh.

Synode

The radio is also saying Rob Kearney is out for the 2 'Quinns games

Teferi

Haven't we already tried to go after Henshaw and he nailed his colours to the mast? Or am I thinking of someone else?

molloyjh

Henshaw is staying where he is for now. Can't see him going anywhere. All the current speculation is saying is that Leinster might want him. There is no hint of confirmation that Leinster do want him, nevermind anything about him actually moving.

Rob being injured though is horrible, horrible news. Kirchner went off injured on Sunday so I really hope we're not back to playing Mads at 15 for the double header.

chancer12

so it will be Madigan to 15 and Gopperth staying at 10 .......... grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Pudsy33

chancer12 wrote: »

so it will be Madigan to 15 and Gopperth staying at 10 .......... grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Kirchner?

LostArt

Kirchner full back and two of McFadden, Kearney and Fanning I'd say

Tox56

awec wrote: »

If I was a Connacht fan I would be furious if it happened tbh.

How furious can you be if he actually wants to move though. I can see it happening at some point, if Connacht miss out on the RCC for a couple of years and Henshaw is still a fixture of the Irish team Leinster will be one of many teams looking for him

Egan2012

Tox56 wrote: »

How furious can you be if he actually wants to move though. I can see it happening at some point, if Connacht miss out on the RCC for a couple of years and Henshaw is still a fixture of the Irish team Leinster will be one of many teams looking for him

This is a through word. If Connacht don't progress in the next couple of years surely henshaw will be looking for bigger and better things. If that means moving to another team I'm sure he will.

.ak

What's wrong with Kearney?

Also any update on Kirchner?

Zzippy

vienne86 wrote: »

It might be down to the guy himself - guys have shifte before while still in contract - Andrew Conway for one.

See the Munster thread where this notion that Conway was under contract is refuted.

Teferi wrote: »

Haven't we already tried to go after Henshaw and he nailed his colours to the mast? Or am I thinking of someone else?

There was a lot of speculation last year about him joining Leinster, but no one outside of the parties involved knows whether there was an approach. He did nail his colours to the mast for the next 2 years though, and I can't see him going back on that.

Tox56 wrote: »

How furious can you be if he actually wants to move though. I can see it happening at some point, if Connacht miss out on the RCC for a couple of years and Henshaw is still a fixture of the Irish team Leinster will be one of many teams looking for him

Henshaw will almost certainly move at some point, possibly to Leinster. Connacht fans are, for the most part, quite resigned to that - he could become a superstar and needs a bigger stage in the future. But he won't be leaving before his contract is up.

.ak

Herald reporting the move will hinge on whether or not Connaght qualify for Europe or not.