How the teaching unions and the DES will conspire to force teachers into the JCSA.

Peter Flynt

Jamfa wrote: »

I appreciate your response but perhaps my issues lie directly with my son's English teacher as there are only 21 in his class & he persists in giving reams of written homework which he doesn't assess. I can't see the purpose of giving written homework to first years if it's not properly scaffolded & formatively assessed. I have no doubt English teachers are often swamped with copies etc but the focus surely must be on improving their writing & not simply churning out assignments.

Why don't you assess it?

Jamfa

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Why don't you assess it?

Unfortunately I am & I'm also having to teach him how to plan, draft, edit etc. All these are areas I think any parent would expect happens in school. Maybe it's a sad reflection on the state of teaching & education that this is where we are at. I can't see why so much writing is given as homework when the teacher clearly hasn't the time or interest in correcting it.

Peter Flynt

Jamfa wrote: »

Unfortunately I am & I'm also having to teach him how to plan, draft, edit etc. All these are areas I think any parent would expect happens in school. Maybe it's a sad reflection on the state of teaching & education that this is where we are at. I can't see why so much writing is given as homework when the teacher clearly hasn't the time or interest in correcting it.

I don't see what's unfortunate in taking an active roll in your child's education.

Teachers do not have the time and nor are they supported enough to attend to each child individually. This is NOT primary school anymore where one teacher presides over 30. It's one teacher presiding over 150-200+

The teachers are supervising and substituting for their colleagues for free when they could be otherwise doing more of the stuff you seem to be demanding.

Either way - The primary educator is the parent and yet it seems more and more parents are more than happy to absolve themselves of any responsibility for their child's education and are only to happy to primarily blame the teacher (Not that I'm accusing you of that).

Earlier today I had to organise laboratory experiments for 48 first years with no assistance from anyone. . . Try it sometime.

Jamfa

Peter Flynt wrote: »

I don't see what's unfortunate in taking an active roll in your child's education.

Teachers do not have the time and nor are they supported enough to attend to each child individually. This is NOT primary school anymore where one teacher presides over 30. It's one teacher presiding over 200+

The teachers are supervising and substituting for their colleagues for free when they could be otherwise doing more of the stuff you seem to be demanding.

Either way - The primary educator is the parent and yet it seems more and more parents are more than happy to absolve themselves of any responsibility for their child's education and are only to happy to primarily blame the teacher (Not that I'm accusing you of that).

Earlier today I had to organise laboratory experiments for 48 first years with no assistance from anyone. . . Try it sometime.

That's ridiculous I'm talking about having to spend 1-2 hrs on English homework that shouldn't in my opinion have been assigned. I am fully supportive of my son's education hence my awareness of the lack of proper teaching he would appear to be receiving. I have no problem understanding that his teachers might be so overworked that they can't give each student individual attention but I'm talking about basic explicit instruction before assigning homework that students are simply not able to complete.

Godge

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Why don't you assess it?

Are you suggesting that the average ordinary parent is as well qualified to assess a second-level student's English homework as a teacher?

Peter Flynt

Jamfa wrote: »

That's ridiculous I'm talking about having to spend 1-2 hrs on English homework that shouldn't in my opinion have been assigned.

Says who?

You?

Do parents have a say in the homework issued to students?

I am fully supportive of my son's education hence my awareness of the lack of proper teaching he would appear to be receiving.

Define "proper teaching".

I have no problem understanding that his teachers might be so overworked that they can't give each student individual attention but . .

Whenever I see the words "but' or "however" in a sentence I usually ignore what precedes it.

Seems to me that you couldn't care less about your child's teacher and his/her workload.

Peter Flynt

Godge wrote: »

Are you suggesting that the average ordinary parent is as well qualified to assess a second-level student's English homework as a teacher?

The child was not assessed. The child was given homework.

Seems to me that the "average ordinary parent" appears to take it upon themselves to discuss anything about teachers/teaching whilst conveniently forgetting that they're taking out of their arse.

Seriously though - Most parents are extremely supportive of teachers and recognise the extremely difficult job they do.

acequion

Jamfa wrote: »

I appreciate your response but perhaps my issues lie directly with my son's English teacher as there are only 21 in his class & he persists in giving reams of written homework which he doesn't assess. I can't see the purpose of giving written homework to first years if it's not properly scaffolded & formatively assessed. I have no doubt English teachers are often swamped with copies etc but the focus surely must be on improving their writing & not simply churning out assignments.

Your issue seems to be with one teacher,your son's teacher.I don't see the point of your posting about that here as if somehow all English teachers are remiss in their teaching. They're not.They're swamped.Which inevitably leads to a lowering of standards even with the best will in the world.I gave you a rough breakdown of an English teacher's workload in my post,which you acknowledge that you appreciate.So why are you still going on about your dissatisfaction with one English teacher? And why not get behind teachers in our resistance to constant extra demands and cuts in funding,instead of finding fault.

seavill

I've actually been in agreement with a lot of what you had been saying up to now peter. However now you are completely out of line and completely belittling anything good that you have said up to now.

Your posts sound ridiculous attacking a parent that knows more about education than most I know. And your argument sbout her caring about a teachers workload is pathetic

Peter Flynt

seavill wrote: »

I've actually been in agreement with a lot of what you had been saying up to now peter. However now you are completely out of line and completely belittling anything good that you have said up to now.

Your posts sound ridiculous attacking a parent that knows more about education than most I know. And your argument sbout her caring about a teachers workload is pathetic

Feel free to discuss the issue being discussed.

seavill

Feel free to respond to what I put to you.

I said I was in agreement with what you had been saying however you have gone back to your old ways of attacking someone with nonsense arguments just so you won't loose face. Which ends up backfiring.

The last posters point was a fair one that if the English teacher currently doesn't gave the time increasing workload certainly won't help that.

A hour or 2 of English homework alone is ridiculous. Any school I have been in has had a recommendation of 1.5 hours total for first years

RH149

One to two hours English homework in First Year?? Every night? Seems a bit much! Would love if my son spent two hours on his First Year homework put together, I'd expect about 20-30 mins max in First Year English.

Peter Flynt

seavill wrote: »

Feel free to respond to what I put to you.

I'm not responding to your usual ad hominem attacks on me.

Can't you pass an opinion without getting your knickers in a twist?

seavill

Peter Flynt wrote: »

I'm not responding to your usual ad hominem attacks on me.

Can't you pass an opinion without getting your knickers in a twist?

Look you are dragging a thread off again. I commented twice on the general point and I commented on your comments. Both relevant to what's being discussed. If you don't want to respond properly that's fine don't but I have no interest in dragging things off any further

acequion

seavill wrote: »

I've actually been in agreement with a lot of what you had been saying up to now peter. However now you are completely out of line and completely belittling anything good that you have said up to now.

Your posts sound ridiculous attacking a parent that knows more about education than most I know. And your argument sbout her caring about a teachers workload is pathetic

What does this parent know about education over most others seavill? I don't mean to belittle Jamfa,but I haven't spotted that.Apologies Jamfa but what I have spotted is a bandying about of new buzz words such as "formative assessment","scaffolding" to name but a few,which are mainly associated with the JCSA which he /she has obviously read up on.That certainly does not indicate a superior knowledge or indeed any in depth insight into real teaching and learning.

Jamfa's issue is a personal one with his /her child's English teacher,which none of us can comment on because we only have one side of the story.

So no point in us all getting our knickers in a twist.:rolleyes:

seavill

I'm certainly not getting anything in a twist.

I simply stated that the silly statements made towards this particular parent were unnecessary.
I never claimed that this patent knew all about teaching I simply said they know more than more parents know and even reading up on jcsa is more than most parents have done.

Their point is a personal one however 1-2 hours English homework on any night is too much even at leaving cert level when you take into account the commitments to other subjects. That is a fair point.

evolving_doors

seavill wrote: »

I'm certainly not getting anything in a twist.

I simply stated that the silly statements made towards this particular parent were unnecessary.
I never claimed that this parent knew all about teaching I simply said they know more than more parents know and even reading up on jcsa is more than most parents have done.

Their point is a personal one however 1-2 hours English homework on any night is too much even at leaving cert level when you take into account the commitments to other subjects. That is a fair point.

Mod: Ok ok , we'll leave it there and move on.

As regards the student getting too much homework.. I can't see how a change in assessment will change that situation as it would be the same teacher for the class regardless.. I think it's a teaching issue localised to 1 teacher rather than being indicative of a need to move to self assessment.

Also some of the comments are a bit harsh towards posters, so I would ask folk to calm down a little before any punishments are dished out. In the same vein, responding to it and calling people to task is somewhat justifiable but it tends to drag the topic off thread. Please report the posts also.

Could yis all read the thread title and go back to the last post where it was pertinent.