Christmas bonus may be back

RayM

wazky wrote: »

When are they bringing back the cheese incentive? I haven't had a sniff of cheese in years.

Grate idea.

Gatling

wazky wrote: »

When are they bringing back the cheese incentive? I haven't had a sniff of cheese in years.

It's still around recently came across a 5kg white cheddar EU aid cheese

Kaizersoze81

Grayson wrote: »

Are you on less money than the dole?

So because I earn more money than the dole (note the word earn,not receive) it's totally ok for them to get an extra weeks allowance for nothing?

Why do we even bother working in this country with attitudes like yours. The dole should be disencentived, not encouraged. USC should be cut to encourage people to take up work.

Bongalongherb

Some shocking comments here about folk being on the dole, also regarding the christmas bonus. In my opinion they are the one's that lost their jobs and ended up on the dole but to take terrible abuse from folk by no fault of their own.

I personally paid taxes for 17 years of which my computer repair job ended and I was let go a few years ago. Not once did I ever complain about people on the dole while I was paying my taxes. I had more interesting things to focus my mind on, instead of moaning every single day of the week about folks getting social welfare.

twin_beacon

krudler wrote: »

Yes, everyone who works lights cigars with 50 notes and has money fights with their maids. Didn't you know?

I think im in the wrong job so!

Gatling

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Some shocking comments here about folk being on the dole, also regarding the christmas bonus. In my opinion they are the one's that lost their jobs and ended up on the dole but to take terrible abuse from folk by no fault of their own.

I personally paid taxes for 17 years of which my computer repair job ended and I was let go a few years ago. Not once did I ever complain about people on the dole while I was paying my taxes. I had more interesting things to focus my mind on, instead of moaning every single day of the week about folks getting social welfare.

Doesn't explain the need for a Christmas bonus

twin_beacon

Grayson wrote: »

Are you on less money than the dole?

what difference does that make?

Bongalongherb

Gatling wrote: »

Doesn't explain the need for a Christmas bonus

As I already said in this post #96 There will be no christmas bonus, not now not ever.

Even if there was a christmas bonus this year (which there won't) it will go directly straight back into the economy pretty fast.

Grayson

Kaizersoze81 wrote: »

So because I earn more money than the dole (note the word earn,not receive) it's totally ok for them to get an extra weeks allowance for nothing?

Why do we even bother working in this country with attitudes like yours. The dole should be disencentived, not encouraged. USC should be cut to encourage people to take up work.

That wasn't the point. You can however feel free to rant and cry. By all means launch an attack on my character too.

The point was that the more you earn the easier it is to budget and save.

people on the dole are on less than you. When you've made all your cutbacks and budgeted etc, you're still doing so with more money than them. I'm not rich. I'm crippled with college debt but I do have a decent job. I budge everything from my rent to my lunches (which I make). My disposable income in feck all. However my take home wage is still 2.5 -> 3 times more than the dole. I think it must be nearly impossible to "budget" whilst on the dole.

This is a tenner they get. Once. That's all. It's a tenner, once a year. You'd have to be pretty ****ing self involved to get outraged and jealous about someone getting ten euros a year that you're not getting, especially when you're not living on the money they get.

Grayson

twin_beacon wrote: »

what difference does that make?

It's like a skinny person who's never gained weight preaching to a fat person about how easy it is to lose weight.

telling people with fcuk all money that they're broke because they don't budget is pretty stupid. Especially when you earn more.

Amirani

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

The thing about the xmas bonus is that all the money will be spent in the economy, it will act as a great stimulus for the economy.

Not necessarily. You'd expect the likes of Apple, Microsoft and Sony would be taking the biggest cuts from Christmas spending, with Irish retailers (and sometimes not via Argos, Tesco etc) taking a bit of margin on top. I don't think the social welfare "spending money in the economy" is always the panacea it's sometimes made out to be.

twin_beacon

Grayson wrote: »

It's like a skinny person who's never gained weight preaching to a fat person about how easy it is to lose weight.

telling people with fcuk all money that they're broke because they don't budget is pretty stupid. Especially when you earn more.

big difference in what you earn, and what you have left at the end of the month when all the bills are paid, and PAYE, PRSI and USC are removed.

I know people that have less than the dole per week, once rent, child care and petrol are paid for. They are actually better off giving up their jobs, and going on the dole, they would get rent allowance, and would not have any child care fees. also, their petrol bill would be a fraction of what it currently is.

TwoShedsJackson

Oh look an inflammatory OP from Kermit followed by him disappearing from the thread :rolleyes:

krudler

twin_beacon wrote: »

big difference in what you earn, and what you have left at the end of the month when all the bills are paid, and PAYE, PRSI and USC are removed.

I know people that have less than the dole per week, once rent, child care and petrol are paid for. They are actually better off giving up their jobs, and going on the dole, they would get rent allowance, and would not have any child care fees. also, their petrol bill would be a fraction of what it currently is.

That's the thing, it does cost money to work as well, between getting there and back, organising child minders etc if you have kids.
Buying extra food for lunches or having to buy stuff there depending on what your work canteen situation is. When I was working in my last job I was scraping by, not on the breadline by any means but all it took was one thing cropping up like a car repair or some unexpected expense and that'd wipe and sort of attempt at saving. Working full time on basic wage jobs is no picnic either, and I didnt have a family to support.

I'm not saying being on the dole isn't hard, it obviously is, but then you have the career dolers who get everything for nothing, sometimes you'd wonder why you bother if it works out more beneficial to not work and get more.

oceanman

twin_beacon wrote: »

big difference in what you earn, and what you have left at the end of the month when all the bills are paid, and PAYE, PRSI and USC are removed.

I know people that have less than the dole per week, once rent, child care and petrol are paid for. They are actually better off giving up their jobs, and going on the dole, they would get rent allowance, and would not have any child care fees. also, their petrol bill would be a fraction of what it currently is.

why don't the then?...if as good on the dole as some here seem to think!

krudler

oceanman wrote: »

why don't the then?...if as good on the dole as some here seem to think!

I know someone who did, it was costing too much to work and pay for childcare on a low income job than it was to be on the dole, upskill on their own time and have more free time with the kids and not spend money on childminders every day. They work now in a better paying job so at least it worked in their advantage to be on the dole for a while.

Annasopra

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Why would they need a bonus? Can't they just do what everyone else does and live within their means?

Its possible for some to do so but for many others it can be extremely extremely difficult to do so.

Annasopra

David Thundering Tongue wrote: »

Not sure if you're joking, but I agree with cutting the 3 euro. It probably only gets spent on a coffee or something after going to the post office to collect their money by most people. Don't think many would miss it tbh, and it would save the gubberment a good bit of bob.

Are things that bad that we resent people having one cup of coffee per week.

Bongalongherb

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Oh look an inflammatory OP from Kermit followed by him disappearing from the thread :rolleyes:

A wise man indeed. Why hang around for chaos

gandalf

I think it is a mistake to reintroduce this.

If you multiply that bonus out by the number that could benefit then it is not an insubstantial amount of money. It would be far wiser to invest those funds in ways that help people get off the dole and back into work.

Maybe look at paying the USC and PRSI for six months (capped above a certain level) for the longer term unemployed if they get a job.

blade1

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

I hope they bring it back just to piss off all the begrudgers on here who never had to struggle for anything in their lives.

Never had to struggle?
Oh! You mean work!:D

Timberrrrrrrr

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Are things that bad that we resent people having one cup of coffee per week.

There's some on here would say let them drink tea, and make them hang the tea bags on the washing line and reuse them. If you're on the dole then some in AH think you deserve **** all, doesn't matter how much tax you have paid over the years, if you're unemployed for any significant time then you're lower than a snakes belly in their eyes.

ZeroThreat

Now if my employer reintroduces the x-mas bonus I'll be happier....

Idbatterim

I don't begrudge SW recipients a little extra at xmas. It must be a very tough time of year for them. The relief it brings to people far outweighs the extra cost to the exchequer imo.

I think people should state their positions, a simple standard rate or marginal rate if working will suffice, because if you are paying 52c in the euro on tax and if you are, you can be damn sure you are getting no host of freebies from the government!

I couldnt care less any more. There are hundreds of thousands of working poor, living hand to mouth, who dont get any handouts, massive rent increases, no whole host of freebies, who gives a sh*t about them?!

Also I have a lot of mates, some great, some awful with money. Should we increase the dole massively for those who cant budget? At what stage do you draw the line?

How about a system like Germanys, where what you get out is based on what you paid in? We are for "fairness" here in Ireland arent we?

WinnyThePoo

This thread would make anyone on the social welfare depressed. Jesus the ignorant waffle.

Idbatterim

This thread would make anyone on the social welfare depressed. Jesus the ignorant waffle.

yeah it makes you depressed reading it, when your giving over half your earnings over to fund this, when you earn the spectacular sum of E32,800, goes a long way here in dublin when you have to pay your own way...

there is Xmas coming up in 2014, 2015, 2016... Let them save for it, or is it news to them?

Czarcasm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Its possible for some to do so but for many others it can be extremely extremely difficult to do so.

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Are things that bad that we resent people having one cup of coffee per week.

Joey this is why it's hard to argue for people receiving social welfare. Budgeting isn't difficult for anyone. When you've got more going out than you've got coming in, you're living an unsustainable lifestyle.

So what's the first thing you do?

Examine where you can make cuts in unnecessary spending. Spending €3 out of €188 on a takeaway coffee is unnecessary expenditure on an item that given their income is a luxury item that can be done without.

Nobody is denying them anything, they're just suggesting that the person can do without it in order to live within their means and buy perhaps a four stone bag of potatoes instead that they'll get a few dinners out of.

That would make common sense to anyone else, no matter how much they earn, so why do you expect people receiving social welfare should be treated any differently or held to a different standard than everyone else?

Bongalongherb

Idbatterim wrote: »

I think people should state their positions, a simple standard rate or marginal rate if working will suffice, because if you are paying 52c in the euro on tax and if you are, you can be damn sure you are getting no host of freebies from the government!

I couldnt care less any more. There are hundreds of thousands of working poor, living hand to mouth, who dont get any handouts, massive rent increases, no whole host of freebies, who gives a sh*t about them?!

Also I have a lot of mates, some great, some awful with money. Should we increase the dole massively for those who cant budget? At what stage do you draw the line?

How about a system like Germanys, where what you get out is based on what you paid in? We are for "fairness" here in Ireland arent we?

In all fairness now, a person can only do one thing on €188 per week, and that's budget it. It's feck-all and a person has no choice but to budget on this amount for a week.

ZeroThreat

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

This thread would make anyone on the social welfare depressed. Jesus the ignorant waffle.

Not wanting your hard earned cash being given away by the corrupt political gombeen class to your profligate layabout neighbours is simply being 'ignorant' ?

Gatling

Czarcasm wrote: »

Joey this is why it's hard to argue for people receiving social welfare. Budgeting isn't difficult for anyone. When you've got more going out than you've got coming in, you're living an unsustainable lifestyle.

So what's the first thing you do?

Examine where you can make cuts in unnecessary spending. Spending €3 out of €188 on a takeaway coffee is unnecessary expenditure on an item that given their income is a luxury item that can be done without

If it's a couple your talking the guts of €8 just for the coffee and probably add a muffin or slice of cake or sandwich your now looking at €13-€17
For that I can feed 4 for two days or more

Idbatterim

In all fairness now, a person can only do one thing on €188 per week, and that's budget it. It's feck-all and a person has no choice but to budget on this amount for a week.

It depends totally on the circumstance, E188 a week if you are living at home, with no overheads, is a hell of a lot more than some people working have. If you become unemployed etc and have debts, yeah it is problematic. But this is why the system is off the wall here, there is no difference whether you have contributed millions or nothing...

Could I also just say in relation to branding E188 a week as "feck all" is typical of the attitude in this country, its far higher than you would get in Germany or the Uk, so where does that put them? and before anyone hops on the cost of living bandwagon. Forget telling me essentials here i.e. food, drink (non alcoholic) electric etc are anywhere near the % differential between the rate of welfare here and the minor cost of living decrease you would have in aforementioned countries...

My dad is German gets E90 a week from the German government for his OAP and forgot the whole goodie bag you get here, thats it (other than a medical card AFAIK) as it is based out on what you paid in to the system (he moved here in the early 70's)...

ZeroThreat

Czarcasm wrote: »

Joey this is why it's hard to argue for people receiving social welfare. Budgeting isn't difficult for anyone. When you've got more going out than you've got coming in, you're living an unsustainable lifestyle.

So what's the first thing you do?

Examine where you can make cuts in unnecessary spending. Spending €3 out of €188 on a takeaway coffee is unnecessary expenditure on an item that given their income is a luxury item that can be done without.

Nobody is denying them anything, they're just suggesting that the person can do without it in order to live within their means and buy perhaps a four stone bag of potatoes instead that they'll get a few dinners out of.

That would make common sense to anyone else, no matter how much they earn, so why do you expect people receiving social welfare should be treated any differently or held to a different standard than everyone else?

Irish people seem to consider both simple arithmetic and budgeting as mysterious dark arts....

krudler

Bongalongherb wrote: »

In all fairness now, a person can only do one thing on €188 per week, and that's budget it. It's feck-all and a person has no choice but to budget on this amount for a week.

Depends on their situation though, plenty of people are living at home on the dole, not paying rent, or dont drive. If you dont have many outgoings then there's plenty can be done with 188 a week.

Bongalongherb

Either one of two things will happen in budget 2014...

(1) the dole will be increased by €5 per week.

Or

(2) The dole will be increased by €10 per week.

I can not see the christmas bonus ever coming back in, because it would make no sense, even if it was introduced for Votes. It just won't happen. Let's just say it's impossible for it to happen.

Amirani

Idbatterim wrote: »

It depends totally on the circumstance, E188 a week if you are living at home, with no overheads, is a hell of a lot more than some people working have. If you become unemployed etc and have debts, yeah it is problematic. But this is why the system is off the wall here, there is no difference whether you have contributed millions or nothing...

But there is. It's the primary distinction between Jobseekers Allowance and Jobseekers Benefit.

ZeroThreat

Idbatterim wrote: »

It depends totally on the circumstance, E188 a week if you are living at home, with no overheads, is a hell of a lot more than some people working have. If you become unemployed etc and have debts, yeah it is problematic. But this is why the system is off the wall here, there is no difference whether you have contributed millions or nothing...

Could I also just say in relation to branding E188 a week as "feck all" is typical of the attitude in this country, its far higher than you would get in Germany or the Uk, so where does that put them? and before anyone hops on the cost of living bandwagon. Forget telling me essentials here i.e. food, drink (non alcoholic) electric etc are anywhere near the % differential between the rate of welfare here and the minor cost of living decrease you would have in aforementioned countries...

My dad is German gets E90 a week from the German government for his OAP and forgot the whole goodie bag you get here, thats it (other than a medical card AFAIK) as it is based out on what you paid in to the system (he moved here in the early 70's)...

Well, if you've contributed millions, it's very likely you were self-employed & therefore entitled to diddly squat

OldNotWIse

Czarcasm wrote: »

Joey this is why it's hard to argue for people receiving social welfare. Budgeting isn't difficult for anyone. When you've got more going out than you've got coming in, you're living an unsustainable lifestyle.

So what's the first thing you do?

Examine where you can make cuts in unnecessary spending. Spending €3 out of €188 on a takeaway coffee is unnecessary expenditure on an item that given their income is a luxury item that can be done without.

Nobody is denying them anything, they're just suggesting that the person can do without it in order to live within their means and buy perhaps a four stone bag of potatoes instead that they'll get a few dinners out of.

That would make common sense to anyone else, no matter how much they earn, so why do you expect people receiving social welfare should be treated any differently or held to a different standard than everyone else?

You should see all the corporate suits wandering around here in the city centre, take away coffees are so 2007, they are all bringing in a baked potato to have at their desk :P

Only joking.... I see your point. I sometimes wonder why the hell I work when I have very little to show for it at the end of the month - at least if your on the dole having nothing doesn't feel so bad cause you haven't done anything anyway.

Bongalongherb

krudler wrote: »

Depends on their situation though, plenty of people are living at home on the dole, not paying rent, or dont drive. If you dont have many outgoings then there's plenty can be done with 188 a week.

I can't imagine anyone still living at home and not paying some rent, sure the folks would kick you out the door in a second I'm sure. ESB food and the rest. What parents would allow that to continue ?.

smash

Bongalongherb wrote: »

What parents would allow that to continue ?.

Typical Irish mammys.

Idbatterim

But there is. It's the primary distinction between Jobseekers Allowance and Jobseekers Benefit.

I am aware there is a difference, I am assuming it is miniscule and an insult to the people who have paid in a fortune though, like the OAP, so I dont even see the point in differentiating as its an insult...

I can't imagine anyone still living at home and not paying some rent, sure the folks would kick you out the door in a second I'm sure. ESB food and the rest. What parents would allow that to continue ?.

Oh I know several of them...

P_1

One of the indicators of a healthy economy is in having plenty of cash circulating about. To be honest having an extra 400,000 x €188 circulating about in December would do no harm to the retail and service sectors and, by extension, the general economy.

OldNotWIse

smash wrote: »

Typical Irish mammys.

I've a friend who likes to bemoan the fact that he "only" managed to save 20k in the past two years since he started working. Lives at home rent free. Doesn't hand up anything for food or utilities.

Idbatterim

Either one of two things will happen in budget 2014...

(1) the dole will be increased by €5 per week.

Or

(2) The dole will be increased by €10 per week.

I can not see the christmas bonus ever coming back in, because it would make no sense, even if it was introduced for Votes. It just won't happen. Let's just say it's impossible for it to happen.

I am sure FG will be dead set against this, but they will probably throw Labour a bone though, as they are their preferred next government coalition partners...

One of the indicators of a healthy economy is in having plenty of cash circulating about. To be honest having an extra 400,000 x €188 circulating about in December would do no harm to the retail and service sectors and, by extension, the general economy.

Ok, but you are simply handing it to one group instead of another to spend... If increasing welfare was the answer to out problems, what are we waiting for?

Bongalongherb

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I've a friend who likes to bemoan the fact that he "only" managed to save 20k in the past two years since he started working. Lives at home rent free. Doesn't hand up anything for food or utilities.

Well that's just disrespectful to the folks. Lazy/greedy bastard.

Lucy and Harry

They should give vouchers for Smyths instead of extra cash to make sure it goes on toys for kids instead of alcohol.Not saying every body does that but it would stop ''some'' spending it on booze.At least some disadvantaged kids will get something.

OldNotWIse

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Well that's just disrespectful to the folks. Lazy/greedy bastard.

It's their fault though. They never demanded he give anything up.

OldNotWIse

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

They should give vouchers for Smyths instead of extra cash to make sure it goes on toys for kids instead of alcohol.Not saying every body does that but it would stop ''some'' spending it on booze.At least some disadvantaged kids will get something.

What about people on the dole who dont have kids? Also, this would be wide open to abuse with the toys just being sold on the black market.

jamo2oo9

What they should do for the entire Christmas month is make it tax free then that way, everyone has more money to spend on Christmas goods and the government will still have money coming at them from the VAT they have put on the retail products. Norway does this every year!

Amirani

OldNotWIse wrote: »

What about people on the dole who dont have kids?

Or any other toy store/retailer. Bit harsh on them.

Bongalongherb

OldNotWIse wrote: »

It's their fault though. They never demanded he give anything up.

But a bit of respect ffs to the folks. There is no way in hell I could do that. I'd feel guilty as hell.

Mammy washing my clothes and cooking my dinner for me and then I don't pay them rent or ESB - gas while mammy hoovers my bedroom all week and coddles me in a fluff-cloud of cotton...Jezus christ I'd rather be dead than be like that. Yock, what a crap lifestyle.