UPC

dmoor4

I have a query regarding contracts running out. I had a year contract with UPC which was due to end on the 5th of this month. I tried to cancel my contract in June because I was moving house and they could not offer the same service but it ended up cheaper to just let the contract run out so when I found this out on the phone I informed her that I will not be renewing my contract. She said that was no problem so it ended at that.

I thought no more about this as I thought it was sorted until I checked my account and saw that they are still charging me even though the 12 month contract is over. I rang them straight away and It ended being a total waste of time. I was 2 hours on the phone, spoke to every single department and got hung up on twice. Each department just simply repeated themselves. That I was supposed to ring back 30 days before my contract ended and then send written confirmation to cancel my account. For some reason it was so easy for all of them to tell me today about this but they couldn't tell me this in June. So now I am going to be charged for two months extra than I signed up to for a service I am no longer using due to moving house.

I am just wondering can they actually do this? Can they continue charging me even though my contract was finished and they did not contact me to ask whether I wanted to start a new contract? Even though I told them in June that I did not want to continue my contract.

They keep repeating themselves saying that my contract was up but my account was still open. Can they legally do this?
Thanks.

Losty Dublin

On the contract that you signed up to with UPC, it will tell you how to end the contract with them. What does it say?

dmoor4 wrote: »

Hi my name is Dylan Moorhouse and I have a query regarding contracts running out. I had a year contract with UPC which was due to end on the 5th of this month. I tried to cancel my contract in June because I was moving house and they could not offer the same service but it ended up cheaper to just let the contract run out so when I found this out on the phone I informed her that I will not be renewing my contract. She said that was no problem so it ended at that.

I thought no more about this as I thought it was sorted until I checked my account and saw that they are still charging me even though the 12 month contract is over. I rang them straight away and It ended being a total waste of time. I was 2 hours on the phone, spoke to every single department and got hung up on twice. Each department just simply repeated themselves. That I was supposed to ring back 30 days before my contract ended and then send written confirmation to cancel my account. For some reason it was so easy for all of them to tell me today about this but they couldn't tell me this in June. So now I am going to be charged for two months extra than I signed up to for a service I am no longer using due to moving house.

I am just wondering can they actually do this? Can they continue charging me even though my contract was finished and they did not contact me to ask whether I wanted to start a new contract? Even though I told them in June that I did not want to continue my contract.

They keep repeating themselves saying that my contract was up but my account was still open. Can they legally do this?
Thanks.

source

As with most utility services, your service will continue and you will still be charged as normal even though your contract will be finished. This is called being out of contract, you are still a customer but are no longer contract bound to stay with the provider.

The terms and conditions of the contract will tell you how to cancel your service, usually by way of written request with 30 days notice.

slimjimmc

See Paras 3.1 and 11.6 of the General Terms and Conditions, your contract is very likely to be identical:

3. Duration 3.1 Unless otherwise stated in our Price List or other documentation that we provide to you, the minimum period (the “Minimum Period”) of the Services is twelve (12) months starting on the date we activate the Services. You can only terminate this Agreement during the Minimum Period as specifically detailed in this Agreement, otherwise we may charge you a cancellation charge of up to €200, or a charge consisting of all relevant charges which would have been payable to the end of the minimum period, whichever is the lesser amount. If you want to terminate this Agreement after the Minimum Period, one month’s written notice is required.

11.6 After the Minimum Period expires this Agreement will continue until it is terminated by either of you or us giving the other one month’s prior notice. You must pay all relevant Charges up to the end of that one month notice period.

January

It's in the terms and conditions, so yes they can. Sometimes it pays to read the T&C's...

234

source wrote: »

As with most utility services, your service will continue and you will still be charged as normal even though your contract will be finished. This is called being out of contract, you are still a customer but are no longer contract bound to stay with the provider.

The terms and conditions of the contract will tell you how to cancel your service, usually by way of written request with 30 days notice.

This doesn't really make any sense; usually utility contracts provide for automatic renewal after the initial term has expired if use continues. In that case there is still a contract in place by implication.

goz83

234 wrote: »

This doesn't really make any sense; usually utility contracts provide for automatic renewal after the initial term has expired if use continues. In that case there is still a contract in place by implication.

It becomes a rolling contract on a monthly basis. This is so you can continue to avail of the service, without committing to a long period contract.

OP, you could have given them written notice in june to terminate on the final day of your contract. Just so you know in future.

Little CuChulainn

If I'm reading this correctly the op gave 3 months notice and UPC are saying he should have called them again and given notice when there was 30 days left. This would be clearly wrong as the contract states a minimum of 30 days.

BornToKill

Well, it says 30 days notice is how you cancel after the minimum period (12 months). Not during.

slimjimmc

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

If I'm reading this correctly the op gave 3 months notice and UPC are saying he should have called them again and given notice when there was 30 days left. This would be clearly wrong as the contract states a minimum of 30 days.

The contract says "written notice", which the OP did not give.

BornToKill wrote: »

Well, it says 30 days notice is how you cancel after the minimum period (12 months). Not during.

The doesn't mean wait until the 12 months is up before giving 30 days notice, it means you can give 30 days notice in order to terminate the contract as soon as the 12 months is up, i.e. you can send notice before month 12 to terminate immediately after month 12. The word "after" refers to the contract termination not the giving of notice.

Little CuChulainn

BornToKill wrote: »

Well, it says 30 days notice is how you cancel after the minimum period (12 months). Not during.

Yes he gave notice that he would not be continuing it at the end of the minimum period but as slimjimmc points out

slimjimmc wrote: »

The contract says "written notice", which the OP did not give.

Cushie Butterfield

dmoor4 wrote: »

I have a query regarding contracts running out. I had a year contract with UPC which was due to end on the 5th of this month. I tried to cancel my contract in June because I was moving house and they could not offer the same service but it ended up cheaper to just let the contract run out so when I found this out on the phone I informed her that I will not be renewing my contract. She said that was no problem so it ended at that.

I thought no more about this as I thought it was sorted until I checked my account and saw that they are still charging me even though the 12 month contract is over. I rang them straight away and It ended being a total waste of time. I was 2 hours on the phone, spoke to every single department and got hung up on twice. Each department just simply repeated themselves. That I was supposed to ring back 30 days before my contract ended and then send written confirmation to cancel my account. For some reason it was so easy for all of them to tell me today about this but they couldn't tell me this in June. So now I am going to be charged for two months extra than I signed up to for a service I am no longer using due to moving house.

I am just wondering can they actually do this? Can they continue charging me even though my contract was finished and they did not contact me to ask whether I wanted to start a new contract? Even though I told them in June that I did not want to continue my contract.

They keep repeating themselves saying that my contract was up but my account was still open. Can they legally do this?
Thanks.

Telling a CS advisor that you won't be renewing your contract isn't the same as specifically informing them that you wish to give 30 days notice to cancel your contract.

UPC don't operate on a contract renewal basis. As soon as you have satisfied a 12/18 month contract you either continue on the basis of a rolling 30 day contract (which is described as being 'out of contract') or give them 30 days cancellation notice. You can also give your 30 days notice when you reach the final 30 days of the contract.

[There are instances whereby a customer can renew a 12 month contract e.g. if they have negotiated a discount on their package they will be entered into a new 12 month contract - in this case it's up to the customer to contact UPC towards the end of that contract to agree to a new 12 month contract in order to continue to receive their discount or a similar discount. If they don't do this their subscription will increase after the 12 months as the discount would have expired, & they then continue on a 30 day rolling contract basis. In some cases when a customer adds to, changes or ugrades their current services they also agree to a new 12 month contract.]

It used to be the case that if you were moving address & UPC couldn't supply you with the same services that you already had they would release you early from a 12 month contract without any penalty. This policy has changed. The situation now is if they can't supply you with services or any elements of services & are still tied into a 12 month contract you either have to pay a €200 early termination fee or your subscription charges up to when your contract ends (whichever is less). You also have the option of just taking what they can supply & losing the other services. This also involves entering a new 12 month contract but you avoid the €200 penaly fee. In your case you opted to just keep paying the bill rather than cancel & pay the €200/three months charges as a penalty for cancelling your contract early. It's all there in their T&Cs.

It's obviously a case of misunderstanding/miscommunication/crossed wires,& considering there was a change of address involved probably led to more confusion, but no matter what it was you didn't abide by the terms & conditions of your contract as regards the cancellation procedure. if you haven't already done so you will still have to give them 30 days written (or emailed) notice. There is a specific email address to use for notices of cancellation.

You have the option of raising a complaint & getting them to listen to a recording of the call you made in June. If it transpires that you were given false or misleading information you should be refunded any payments you made since your contract expired.

domark

UPC are trying to make it difficult to terminate contracts for their cash cows ("customers").
Here are the addresses to cancel your contract:

Electronic address
resolutionteam at upc dot ie

Postal address
PO Box 11419
Blackrock
Dublin

According to T&Cs you are expected to give thirty days notice).

MarkAnthony

Why does everyone think that TV/broadband should be some sort of free/cost next to nothing service without a contract period? If you laid thousands of miles of cable infrastructure would you not expect to make a profit?

If you don't like it get a library card read by candle light and drink your own... anyway.

hullaballoo

I rang them after this unilateral change of terms issue and after just 35 minutes of contractual negotiations, I got money off my current bill instead of paying an extra €10 for a service I don't get.

You have to put things to them in the right way.

MarkAnthony

hullaballoo wrote: »

I rang them after this unilateral change of terms issue and after just 35 minutes of contractual negotiations, I got money off my current bill instead of paying an extra €10 for a service I don't get.

You have to put things to them in the right way.

A shame that 35 minutes wasn't billable

domark

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Why does everyone think that TV/broadband should be some sort of free/cost next to nothing service without a contract period? If you laid thousands of miles of cable infrastructure would you not expect to make a profit?

If you don't like it get a library card read by candle light and drink your own... anyway.

To me the question is why old customers are paying more for less when newly subscribed ones get more for less.

There is in fact no advantage at all being a longtime customer.

Better terminate at the end of the mandatory contract period and shop around, being trusted and loyal in the world of commerce with corporations does not lead to anything beneficial.

hullaballoo

MarkAnthony wrote: »

A shame that 35 minutes wasn't billable

What do you mean? I gave them plenty of legal advice in that time. :pac:

hullaballoo

domark wrote: »

To me the question is why old customers are paying more for less when newly subscribed ones get more for less.

There is in fact no advantage at all being a longtime customer.

Better terminate at the end of the mandatory contract period and shop around, being trusted and loyal in the world of commerce with corporations does not lead to anything beneficial.

Again, you need to bargain with them. You do have bargaining power, you just need to identify where that lies and how to put it to them. Yes, some companies will just cut you off and say, "good luck" but that's fine.

FreudianSlippers

hullaballoo wrote: »

I rang them after this unilateral change of terms issue and after just 35 minutes of contractual negotiations, I got money off my current bill instead of paying an extra €10 for a service I don't get.

You have to put things to them in the right way.

Did you just threaten to switch? I think unilateral material change is permitted under the primary contract for things like price?

MarkAnthony

domark wrote: »

To me the question is why old customers are paying more for less when newly subscribed ones get more for less.

There is in fact no advantage at all being a longtime customer.

Better terminate at the end of the mandatory contract period and shop around, being trusted and loyal in the world of commerce with corporations does not lead to anything beneficial.

The same reason shops open on St. Stephen's day - someone else did it.

Of course there are better deals for new customers, otherwise no one would ever move. Loyal long term customers is for your butcher, breadmaker and candlestick maker. Hard facts for this type of company. Shop around at each opportunity to break the contract, work out the average of any 'deal' over the contract period. Phone your current supplier and say I can get X at Y from Z what can I get from you?

Compare like with like, but also make sure you know what you need. No one needs 240Mbit broadband. Maybe a family of 10 with 8 teenagers. Conversely 5Mbit DSL is going to be crap in almost all situations, cheaper isn't always better. Don't get obsessed with 'bundles' Irish customer are mental for 'bundles' if its better value for money (note not necessarily cheaper) to have things from different suppliers then do it. The very basic of basic money management and budgeting is required to make sure direct debits go out on time.

Prices will always rise, unless the Eurozone enters (it may have already) deflation. Don't get in a tizzy just shop around. Finally don't just shop on price yes you can get 'TV' cheaper from UPC than Sky but you're going to miss out on the decent shows - not bothered about decent shows and just want to watch the same crap like Eastenders and X factor? Go freeview. Need TV in 100 rooms because you can't sit on the toilet without the box being on? Would proper cabling be a better one off investment over dozens of boxes.

Sorry for the semi-rant but it's not a charity it's a business, polite negotiation once/twice a year will pay dividends.

domark

hullaballoo wrote: »

Again, you need to bargain with them. You do have bargaining power, you just need to identify where that lies and how to put it to them. Yes, some companies will just cut you off and say, "good luck" but that's fine.

I did try but all they had to offer where next to nothing (one or two euros per month).

Could have hoped that in the current economic and social situation UPC would give more consideration to loyal, non-annoying, customers. It's not like if I had requested discount each year for the past decade with them.

Could be that I am not rough enough but I prefer to keep calm because the people to whom we speak are not that often at fault. They work for a management that are there to make sure that bankers and investment funds suck the maximum dividends.

I am now canceling and UPC think I am *trying* because they ignored my first termination of service email (sent to correct department). They replied with the same generic email as when I asked who to email for canceling.
Sent them another one even clearer just to be legally safe on my side.

domark

Thank you, that's good advice.

hullaballoo

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Did you just threaten to switch? I think unilateral material change is permitted under the primary contract for things like price?

The contracts tend to stipulate that price changes are permitted but if you de-construct those clauses, they are invariably provisions allowing for unilateral termination with notice with an option for novation of terms. I.e., The "notification of price change" means that they can no longer provide you with what you are getting at the set price. Because of the commercial realities, this is an acceptable clause.

Look at it like this, you enter a fixed-term contract at a price for a service for one year. In my case, something like TV, Broadband and phone for one year for €x per month plus usage over and above the contracted allowances. After a year, what you have in effect is a rolling one-month contract that either party can give 30 days notice of intention to terminate.

As such, under the price changes, they are terminating the contract. They are providing a new offer of the same (or similar) service on the rolling one-month basis but at a higher price. You have thirty days within which to accept the new offer. Here's the thing. If you don't indicate your unwillingness to accept, you are automatically adjudged to have accepted. Under this new rolling one-month contract, you can still notify termination. Importantly, as a customer, you are no longer bound by the terms of the contract (beyond what money is due up until termination) upon receipt of the notice. That can be hugely important, particularly where the contract provides for arbitration in case of disputes etc. as well as other provisions that might otherwise limit your recourse to the courts.

(Brief aside: Something similar happens all over the place with these types of contracts when due for "renewal". It's very much something that catches people out and its lawfulness is questionable at best. It could be argued either way but I don't know that this particular practice has ever been challenged.)

Anyway, on receipt of the notification, you can do one of three things. 1. Accept the new offer (by doing nothing); 2. Not accept and terminate the contract and service; or, 3. Negotiate new terms.

Under the last of these, consumers are in a weak but not hopeless position. The weakness isn't from the point of view of your own capacity to enter contractual discussions but because the people you speak to have limited authority to deviate from the standard. They simply cannot do something ultra vires their role without the contract being voidable ab initio which doesn't suit the customer.

As such, you sort of have to do the best you can.

I also got a little bit shouty. :pac:

hullaballoo

Just to note in relation to the above, neither side can alter the terms (including price) within the first twelve months, as a general rule (with caveats, of course!) However, after this, once the rolling one-month contract kicks in, either side can unilaterally terminate.

Mr. Incognito

Just ring the bank and cancel their direct debit at source.

Simple.

Once the bank are not honouring the direct debit let them take you to small claims court and argue it there. They wont.

caissa007

UPC customer care have not improved from NTL days. You wouldnt believe the amount of my time they wasted in the last week when ordering Horizon. They finally offered me €80 credit which I told them was only a token. They came back with €120 & I told them to keep it.

They are a terrible organisation to deal with. I was repeatedly promised call backs which never happened & left holding for hours. In addition their support line was completely out of action for long periods as well. They sent me out two dud boxes & had delivery failures etc.

I dunno why I'm still with them .....

MarkAnthony

caissa007 wrote: »

UPC customer care have not improved from NTL days. You wouldnt believe the amount of my time they wasted in the last week when ordering Horizon. They finally offered me €80 credit which I told them was only a token. They came back with €120 & I told them to keep it.

They are a terrible organisation to deal with. I was repeatedly promised call backs which never happened & left holding for hours. In addition their support line was completely out of action for long periods as well. They sent me out two dud boxes & had delivery failures etc.

I dunno why I'm still with them .....

I've never had an issue with their broadband guys in over 10 years.

Horizon is pretty crap from all accounts.

Little CuChulainn

caissa007 wrote: »

UPC customer care have not improved from NTL days. You wouldnt believe the amount of my time they wasted in the last week when ordering Horizon. They finally offered me €80 credit which I told them was only a token. They came back with €120 & I told them to keep it.

They are a terrible organisation to deal with. I was repeatedly promised call backs which never happened & left holding for hours. In addition their support line was completely out of action for long periods as well. They sent me out two dud boxes & had delivery failures etc.

I dunno why I'm still with them .....

In all fairness, the same can be said of nearly every provider of every service.

Marcusm

caissa007 wrote: »

UPC customer care have not improved from NTL days. You wouldnt believe the amount of my time they wasted in the last week when ordering Horizon. They finally offered me €80 credit which I told them was only a token. They came back with €120 & I told them to keep it.

They are a terrible organisation to deal with. I was repeatedly promised call backs which never happened & left holding for hours. In addition their support line was completely out of action for long periods as well. They sent me out two dud boxes & had delivery failures etc.

I dunno why I'm still with them .....

On the flip side, I've had a great experience signing up with them. Agreed a 1-6pm installation window. Technician called me he Night before and offered to instal between 8:30 and 9am if I referred. It's likely similar with all such organisations, all customer experiences are different.

RM8849

We decided to leave UPC as although we were on a premium package, our broadband was slow and tv was not great. We gave 30 days notice and they cut our service off on Day 29, on a Saturday. Despite numerous calls to the technical team nobody could reactivate our service, despite them admitting their mistake. I am now delayed in submitting a very important piece of work and this will reflect badly on me in my job. Another person in my house will be late submitting a piece of college work and will lose 10% in grades due to UPC's negligence. When a company is in serious breach of contract you would imagine they would react to a complaint pretty quickly, however I had to follow up numerous times this weekend to see if they would resolve the issue (as promised when the original complaint was made). Serious waste of my time and am very disappointed. Word of warning to anyone considering using UPC in the future.