Asylum Seeker protest on Kinsale Road. Mod warning in OP.

Daisy Dasi

Mod Warning

Keep it civil please, play the ball, not the man!


hi everyone as you all pretty much know about the media coverage on asylum seekers living in Direct Provision since the summer resulting in several protests in Direct Provision Centres all over the country.

It all seems to have sparked off with comments from Aodhan O'Riordain saying he was going to stake his job on changing the system and wouldn't stand over it. But on Wednesday in the Seanad he had a totally different stance saying he knows direct provision isn't perfect but has accommodated 51,000 asylum seekers since it has been implemented (half the population of Cork! ) He also said not one asylum seeker was homeless throughout it's the years the centres are running. He said anyone in the system over 4 years has exhausted every avenue and are only in the state due to court injunctions in place on their deportations.... Why is everyone getting up in arms when the Direct Provision was set up for asylum seekers looking for refugee status but ends up housing people who fail their asylum applications and apply instead for subsidiary protection, leave to remain, humanitarian grounds etc...

Asylum seekers get their response regarding their asylum case within 3 to 6 months if not sooner.... so direct provision was only set up to accomodate people for this length of time and never envisaged housing people for up to 10 years. In 2005 a lot of asylum seekers were given amnesty under the Irish Born child scheme which had constant movement of asylum seekers out of the system but since that loophole has been closed the movement from centres stagnated.

Easter 2015 brings about changes which means asylum seekers can apply for all processes at once with only one appeal compared to 4 different processes with two appeals per process. This ensures asylum seekers will be fastracked but can you imagine the Irish deporting failed asylum seekers as they aren't deporting people even now?

tolerant from cork

Finally someone talking about it. Could write a book about asylum seekers, their frauds, scams etc. while honest taxpayers are left with no interest or help when they really need it.

Daisy Dasi

tolerant from cork wrote: »

Finally someone talking about it. Could write a book about asylum seekers, their frauds, scams etc. while honest taxpayers are left with no interest or help when they really need it.

Tolerant from Cork are you one of the "f them all out of the country" type or have you facts to back this up?

AlekSmart

tolerant from cork wrote: »

Finally someone talking about it. Could write a book about asylum seekers, their frauds, scams etc. while honest taxpayers are left with no interest or help when they really need it.

There will be somebody along presently with a Typewriter and some paper to facilitate your literary endeavours......just give it a few minutes ...

tolerant from cork

Daisy Dasi wrote: »

Tolerant from Cork are you one of the "f them all out of the country" type or have you facts to back this up?

I have the facts, don't worry. I know those places inside out. Just ask me constuctive questions and I'll be happy to answer them all best to my knowledge.

AlekSmart

Daisy Dasi wrote: »

Hi everyone,as you all pretty much know about the media coverage on asylum seekers living in Direct Provision since the summer,resulted in several protests in Direct Provision Centres all over the country.

It all seems to have sparked off with comments from Aodhan O'Riordain saying he was going to stake his job on changing the system and wouldn't stand over it. But on Wednesday in the Seanad he had a totally different stance saying he knows direct provision isn't perfect but has accommodated 51,000 asylum seekers since it has been implemented (half the population of Cork! ) He also said not one asylum seeker was homeless throughout it's the years the centres are running. He said anyone in the system over 4 years has exhausted every avenue and are only in the state due to court injunctions in place on their deportations.... Why is everyone getting up in arms when the Direct Provision was set up for asylum seekers looking for refugee status but ends up housing people who fail their asylum applications and apply instead for subsidiary protection, leave to remain, humanitarian grounds etc...

Asylum seekers get their response regarding their asylum case within 3 to 6 months if not sooner.... so direct provision was only set up to accomodate people for this length of time and never envisaged housing people for up to 10 years. In 2005 a lot of asylum seekers were given amnesty under the Irish Born child scheme which had constant movement of asylum seekers out of the system but since that loophole has been closed the movement from centres stagnated.

Easter 2015 brings about changes which means asylum seekers can apply for all processes at once with only one appeal compared to 4 different processes with two appeals per process. This ensures asylum seekers will be fastracked but can you imagine the Irish deporting failed asylum seekers as they aren't deporting people even now?

Some valid points for sure,however far too focused for those who tend to see ANY attempt to control or otherwise moderate numbers seeking Asylum or Refugee status in Ireland.

Many people fail to realise that significant numbers of these "unfortunates" which Ireland allegedly treats so inhumanely,have embarked upon lengthy and largely vexatious legal challenges to our systems,with significant assistance,encouragement and connivance from support agencies,charities and sectors involved in the "business".

It seems that,for many,it is a pre-requisite that Ireland,it's Laws,Traditions,People and Economy have to be portrayed as backward,oppressive and intolerant in order to make some obtuse point or other to the rest of the World ?

AlekSmart

tolerant from cork wrote: »

I have the facts, don't worry. I know those places inside out. Just ask me constuctive questions and I'll be happy to answer them all best to my knowledge.

To the best of your knowledge,are these protests in any way valid or are they orchestrated by outside influences ?

tolerant from cork

AlekSmart wrote: »

There will be somebody along presently with a Typewriter and some paper to facilitate your literary endeavours......just give it a few minutes ...

No need for that. Can type myself You go and write your own about do-gooders like yourself.

tolerant from cork

AlekSmart wrote: »

To the best of your knowledge,are these protests in any way valid or are they orchestrated by outside influences ?

They are influenced by all the do-gooders like NASC that are living in lulu-land. Honestly, their most recent demands are to completely and for all stop deportation process and give houses to all successful asylum seekers. Can this country afford it? If yes ... I'll join them myself.

AlekSmart

tolerant from cork wrote: »

No need for that. Can type myself You go and write your own about do-gooders like yourself.

A bit DW Griffitish surely...... ?

It's early yet.

AlekSmart

tolerant from cork wrote: »

No need for that. Can type myself You go and write your own about do-gooders like yourself.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/state-fears-alternative-to-direct-provision-will-attract-asylum-seekers-1.1932537

Perhaps you are confusing me with this good Senator....

.Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh said there was an impression that asylum seekers were often low-skilled individuals, when many were highly qualified lawyers, doctors or teachers who had sought asylum here to escape hostile conditions in their home countries.

Trevor playing to the tolerant gallery in the chamber....but the Supreme Court managed to rumble at least one of the better qualified examples...It's 16 pages,but it's a real pot-boiler for that

.http://www.courts.ie/supremecourt/sclibrary3.nsf/%28WebFiles%29/E3E3E53F573DC9C2802578CC0033B69A/$FILE/Ezeani%20%26%20Anor%20v%20MJLR.pdf

Oddly enough at least one other Politician appeared to have her reality spectacles on that day....

Senator Hildegarde Naughton (FG) said recent disquiet among asylum seekers and support organisations was understandable, given the length of time people were spending in the system.

But she said key facts needed to be considered, such as a 90 per cent refusal rate for asylum appeals over the past 10 years.

“I feel that sometimes the impression is given that we are discussing actual refugees when in the vast majority of cases what we are discussing are economic migrants or those applying for some other form of leave to remain,” she said.

“Additional to this is the fact that over 50 per cent of those in direct provision have judicial review proceedings pending or in train, having deportation orders pending or are applying for leave to remain for non-protection reasons.”

Daisy Dasi

AlekSmart wrote: »

A bit DW Griffitish surely...... ?

It's early yet.

I'm lost..... what does that mean??

AlekSmart

Daisy Dasi wrote: »

I'm lost..... what does that mean??

I mean,in this thread.....the pattern already well developed on these one's....;)

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057284004&page=24

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057284643&page=68

Have you contributed ?

Daisy Dasi

"Another resident, who came originally from Malawi four years ago, and who built stages in Dublin for large international music stars including Jay-Z, before seeking asylum last year, said direct provision is denying people their human rights."

Irish Examiner Tuesday 16th September..

What happened him that after being in the country for 3 years he suddenly remembered he is in fear of his life to return home?

We have to bear in mind these protesters are failed asylum seekers and haven't any legal basis to remain on the country..

Daisy Dasi

Have you contributed ?[/quote]

No, to be honest I haven't.... I live in County Cork and it's only since the Cork protests started and the local media here becoming saturated with it that the whole issue has piqued my interest.... I have looked into a lot on the subject in the last week....

tolerant from cork

Daisy Dasi wrote: »

"Another resident, who came originally from Malawi four years ago, and who built stages in Dublin for large international music stars including Jay-Z, before seeking asylum last year, said direct provision is denying people their human rights."

Irish Examiner Tuesday 16th September..

What happened him that after being in the country for 3 years he suddenly remembered he is in fear of his life to return home?

We have to bear in mind these protesters are failed asylum seekers and haven't any legal basis to remain on the country..

I know him ... Didn't know that about him though. Funny, after 3 years of work he claimed social saying that he couldn't afford a haircut.
This is a great country.

Black Swan

AlekSmart wrote: »

There will be somebody along presently with a Typewriter and some paper to facilitate your literary endeavours......just give it a few minutes ...

Daisy Dasi wrote: »

Tolerant from Cork are you one of the "f them all out of the country" type or have you facts to back this up?

tolerant from cork wrote: »

No need for that. Can type myself You go and write your own about do-gooders like yourself.

MOD REMINDER:
This is the Politics discussion forum. Please try to raise your standards for posting, and focus on the thread topic and not each other. Thanks.

enricoh

Whoever is orchestrating the media campaign on the centres residents is doing a great job.
No sticky questions from any interviewers in any reports I' ve heard helps too
I was wondering how it took years n years to reach a decision n it turns out most are rejected as bogus n are just doing appeal after appeal

AlekSmart

enricoh wrote: »

Whoever is orchestrating the media campaign on the centres residents is doing a great job.

No sticky questions from any interviewers in any reports I' ve heard helps too.

I was wondering how it took years n years to reach a decision n it turns out most are rejected as bogus n are just doing appeal after appeal

The reality of our much derided Asylum decision process is that it IS fulfilling its purpose in the majority of cases.

However,not alone are the failed applicants then afforded significant leeway to challenge it's findings on an apparently endless basis,but even when all of those avenues are exhausted,the failed ones can simply disappear.

The lack of "Sticky Questions" as you describe them,is I fear down to the ever present "Racism" card lying on the table,waiting for any such line of questioning to appear,when it will be quickly slapped down with a loud GOTCHA !!!! :eek:

What I have constantly challenged in several threads is the oft repeated cry that our Asylum System is fundamentally flawed,and failing large numbers of applicants...It is NOT.

However,the Asylum System and those administering it,is itself being failed by a lack of Political will to support and act upon it's own decisions.

Daisy Dasi

I cannot help feel, as Alek Smart has stated, the asylum process in Ireland works, it's the deportation process has failed.... Minister Aodhan O'Riordain has said anyone in the system for more than 4 years has exhausted every avenue available but have court injuctions in place on their removal from the State.


If people were deported swiftly then everything is clear cut and asylum seekers would know exactly where they stand. What exactly is the reason Ireland is slow to deport failed asylum seekers?

Is it the cost of hiring chartered flights complete with doctors, immigration officials, phycologists etc on board? Is it the lack of organisation on the Irish state to round up a plane load all at once to be more cost efficient? Is the Irish State just hoping these failed asylum seekers just simply move on? Or are they, as you say, afraid of the racist card being dealt?

It seems to get a deportation letter in this country is no big deal and obviously not taken seriously as they are so easily contested and rarely acted upon. Support groups such as Residents Against Racism and The Anti Deportation League have unrealistic goals in trying to get Ireland to abolish deportations.

Even one of the demands of the residents of the Kinsale Road Accommodation Centre was to grant them all status and revoke all deportations. Ireland has every right to protect its boundaries, and deportation is an end process of immigration in every country of the world.

When Ireland attempts to deport people from the state, the reaction from these anti deportation groups in unreasonable and unrealistic.

Ireland has a success rate of 8% of successful applications trying to claim asylum. Ireland is always scrutinised as to why it has such low rates of success.

The reason being: Ireland is not the first port of call for the majority of asylum seekers if not all as there are no direct flights from here to Africa or the war torn countries of the Middle East.

The genuine asylum seekers, claim and receive asylum at their first port of call... namely Amsterdam, France, United Kingdom or other countries accessable via boat such as Italy or Malta. The reason being: the genuine asylum seekers are just happy to land in a safe country and will apply without the risk of trying to enter another EU country without proper documentation.

If asylum seekers fail in these first ports of call, they move on and claim somewhere else. Ireland is often a back up plan and to be fair, is a pretty lenient country in how to process their applications, their right to appeal and also has very lenient deportation laws.

Ask any asylum seeker how or why did they come to Ireland and you will find a sudden bout of amnesia occurs.

Nodin

Daisy Dasi wrote: »

I cannot help feel, as Alek Smart has stated, the asylum process in Ireland works, it's the deportation process has failed.... Minister Aodhan O'Riordain has said anyone in the system for more than 4 years has exhausted every avenue available but have court injuctions in place on their removal from the State.


If people were deported swiftly then everything is clear cut and asylum seekers would know exactly where they stand. What exactly is the reason Ireland is slow to deport failed asylum seekers?

Is it the cost of hiring chartered flights complete with doctors, immigration officials, phycologists etc on board? Is it the lack of organisation on the Irish state to round up a plane load all at once to be more cost efficient? Is the Irish State just hoping these failed asylum seekers just simply move on? Or are they, as you say, afraid of the racist card being dealt?

It seems to get a deportation letter in this country is no big deal and obviously not taken seriously as they are so easily contested and rarely acted upon. Support groups such as Residents Against Racism and The Anti Deportation League have unrealistic goals in trying to get Ireland to abolish deportations.

Even one of the demands of the residents of the Kinsale Road Accommodation Centre was to grant them all status and revoke all deportations. Ireland has every right to protect its boundaries, and deportation is an end process of immigration in every country of the world.

When Ireland attempts to deport people from the state, the reaction from these anti deportation groups in unreasonable and unrealistic.

Ireland has a success rate of 8% of successful applications trying to claim asylum. Ireland is always scrutinised as to why it has such low rates of success.

The reason being: Ireland is not the first port of call for the majority of asylum seekers if not all as there are no direct flights from here to Africa or the war torn countries of the Middle East.

The genuine asylum seekers, claim and receive asylum at their first port of call... namely Amsterdam, France, United Kingdom or other countries accessable via boat such as Italy or Malta. The reason being: the genuine asylum seekers are just happy to land in a safe country and will apply without the risk of trying to enter another EU country without proper documentation.

If asylum seekers fail in these first ports of call, they move on and claim somewhere else. Ireland is often a back up plan and to be fair, is a pretty lenient country in how to process their applications, their right to appeal and also has very lenient deportation laws.

Ask any asylum seeker how or why did they come to Ireland and you will find a sudden bout of amnesia occurs.

That's irrelevant.

TrishMaz11

Not everyone in these provision are failed asylum. Some people are waiting for their interviews which is taking forever. People should be open minded treat people as you want to be treated cause tomorrow never promise anyone.

tolerant from cork

Nodin wrote: »

That's irrelevant.

Of course it is relevant. How couldn't it be?

tolerant from cork

TrishMaz11 wrote: »

Not everyone in these provision are failed asylum. Some people are waiting for their interviews which is taking forever. People should be open minded treat people as you want to be treated cause tomorrow never promise anyone.

Of course not everyone is failed asylum seeker, but most of them are. All of the honest and genuine ones are interviewed within a month from arrival and fully processed in 6 - 12 months. That's the 8% mentioned earlier. The rest stays in direct provision forever and produces child after child every 9 months to increase their chances of getting status on behalf of every child they applied for.

Daisy Dasi

Nodin wrote: »

That's irrelevant.

it's very relevant as Ireland is continually getting slated for its low success rates of asylum seekers. If they have failed in their first port of call, why should they succeed here?

Daisy Dasi

Ireland is also one of few countries which rehomes programme refugees. These programme refugees are taken directly from refugee camps in war torn countries such as Syria and given immediate refugee status on arriving in Ireland.

UNHCR website:


"90 programme refugees to make Ireland their new home

20 September 2013

Some 90 refugees are to be admitted for resettlement in Ireland as part of the Irish Resettlement programme operated in partnership with UNHCR. 

The arrivals this year will bring to 1,064 the number of refugees admitted to Ireland since 2000, when the programme was established.

31 vulnerable people are expected to arrive from Syria in the coming weeks, as are 29 refugees from DR Congo who are currently in a refugee camp in Tanzania. A family of four from Syria were resettled in July.

Ireland is one of a small number of states who take part in the UNHCR resettlement programme, which is coordinated in Ireland by the Office for the Promotion of Migrant Integration. The programme provides durable solutions for refugees who are living in perilous conditions or have specific needs that cannot be met in the country where they have sought protection.

In the past, groups resettled in Ireland include Hungarians in the 1950s, Vietnamese in the 1970s and Bosnians and Kosovars in the 1990s.

The need for resettlement is far greater than the number of resettlemetn places available. Of the 10.5 million refugees of concern to UNHCR around the world, only about 1 per cent are submitted by the agency for resettlement."





 

Daisy Dasi

The Journal 1st February 2014 -( I cannot post links as I am a new user)

"IRELAND WILL ACCEPT 90 Syrian refugees this year, the government has told the United Nation’s refugee agency.

Most will be resettled from host countries in the Middle East and North African region. According to the Department of Justice, they could possibly come from over-populated camps in Lebanon and Jordan.

“This number will include provision for up to four medical cases whose medical needs can only be met through resettlement,” a statement to TheJournal.ie revealed. ”The UNHCR has begun the process of identifying medical cases for consideration by the Irish authorities.”

During 2013, 35 Syrian refugees came to Ireland from Syrian UNHCR refugee camps.

That number included one medical case, in which a family of four of Iraqi/Palestinian origin arrived in July. They have been resettled in Cork.

Eight Afghan refugee families and two single Afghan men arrived in Ireland on 7 November 2013 from Damascus, Syria. The entire group of 31 people is currently living in a reception centre while participating in a language and orientation programme.

The 31 Afghan refugees was admitted under an EU funded Preparatory Action for Emergency Resettlement.

Separately, there were 38 applications for asylum from those claiming to be from Syria in 2013. So far this year, there have been five such applications from Syrians.

In 2012, fewer than 10 Syrians had applied for refugee status in Ireland."

And again here is another example of Ireland introducing programme refugees into the country.I for one whole heartily agree with programme refugees who are living in awful cramped, dirty conditions in refugee camps without clean water and very limited food supplies. I would prefer if the Irish government could fill the direct provision centres with programme refugees while they find suitable accommodation in Ireland and deport any failed asylum seekers who are clogging up the system and draining the State of funds that could be used on getting programme refugees out of these dire conditions.

Lucy and Harry

beggars cant be choosers.they should be glad we take them in and feed them etc.What do we get from their birth countries.Sweet F all.I would get a lorry and send the protesters to the North Pole.Santa can look after them we cant afford them.Why dont they go to England why come here we are in recession.

"IRELAND WILL ACCEPT 90 Syrian refugees this year, the government has told the United Nation’s refugee agency.

Hope they are Christians that are being beheaded and told to convert or die and not Isis or Al Nusra loving rebels.People need to be questioned before being let in.

Daisy Dasi

tolerant from cork wrote: »

They are influenced by all the do-gooders like NASC that are living in lulu-land. Honestly, their most recent demands are to completely and for all stop deportation process and give houses to all successful asylum seekers. Can this country afford it? If yes ... I'll join them myself.

Don't you mean unsuccessful asylum seekers as successful asylum seekers are declared refugees and can access social welfare benefits such as rent allowance schemes?

AlekSmart

Daisy Dasi wrote: »

Ireland is also one of few countries which rehomes programme refugees. These programme refugees are taken directly from refugee camps in war torn countries such as Syria and given immediate refugee status on arriving in Ireland.

UNHCR website:


"90 programme refugees to make Ireland their new home

20 September 2013

Some 90 refugees are to be admitted for resettlement in Ireland as part of the Irish Resettlement programme operated in partnership with UNHCR. 

The arrivals this year will bring to 1,064 the number of refugees admitted to Ireland since 2000, when the programme was established.

31 vulnerable people are expected to arrive from Syria in the coming weeks, as are 29 refugees from DR Congo who are currently in a refugee camp in Tanzania. A family of four from Syria were resettled in July.

Ireland is one of a small number of states who take part in the UNHCR resettlement programme, which is coordinated in Ireland by the Office for the Promotion of Migrant Integration. The programme provides durable solutions for refugees who are living in perilous conditions or have specific needs that cannot be met in the country where they have sought protection.


In the past, groups resettled in Ireland include Hungarians in the 1950s, Vietnamese in the 1970s and Bosnians and Kosovars in the 1990s.

The need for resettlement is far greater than the number of resettlemetn places available. Of the 10.5 million refugees of concern to UNHCR around the world, only about 1 per cent are submitted by the agency for resettlement."

 

As you are learning,the debate on "relevance" can be extended to the length of a piece of string.

However when posters point out the actual success of Irelands past efforts at resettling genuinely needy displaced persons,they are almost casually brushed aside,with derisory comments and assertions implying a "racist" intent.

Irelands success rate in the past is down to the realistic numbers we accepted and the well planned and executed programmes put in place to facilitate those accepted into it.

I have known,worked and socialized with people who benefited from past Resettlement programmes and they remain hugely positive about it,particularly when compared to our country's situation both geographically and financially.

The artifical,virtually commercial,rates of arrival which existed for the early years of the 21st Century presented Ireland with huge challenges,some of which continue to restrict our ability to deal with today's situation.

To my mind,Ireland needs to focus on what it has done exceedingly well in the past,focus on HOW it managed that and get back to it asap.

Adopting the welcoming stance towards allcomers,without robustly sifting through their numbers,and physically removing those non-compliant may be good for Irelands self-image on the Liberal stage,but who'll pay for this largesse ?

Daisy Dasi

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

beggars cant be choosers.they should be glad we take them in and feed them etc.What do we get from their birth countries.Sweet F all.I would get a lorry and send the protesters to the North Pole.Santa can look after them we cant afford them.Why dont they go to England why come here we are in recession.[/quote

A lot of the people in the centres 9 years came just as they closed the loophole for the Irish Born Child scheme which gave parents of children born before 2005 an automatic entitlement to remain in the country. The amount of asylum seekers who came to Ireland prior to 2005 was extremely high such as over 11,500 applicants in 2002 compared to just over 4000 in 2005 and just 946 new applicants in 2013.

Surely there couldn't be such a huge drop off in numbers so quickly but the only reasonable explanation is that many people came to Ireland pre 2005 in the guise of asylum seekers to claim under the Irish Born Child scheme. Everyone probably remembers the heavily pregnant asylum seekers arriving in their droves.

Now Ireland is in recession, it doesn't appeal so much to economic migrants but in relation to your post... the people who are in the system 9 years are here pre-recession days...

alastair

Daisy Dasi wrote: »

it's very relevant as Ireland is continually getting slated for its low success rates of asylum seekers. If they have failed in their first port of call, why should they succeed here?

I think the point* was that it's entirely possible to use an Irish airport as the first port of EU entry, if a connecting flight was caught in another safe country, but the asylum applicant didn't leave the international transit area. Clearly this is not going to be the case for many applicants, but nevertheless it is a possibility, and needs to be taken into account in any assessment.

* The irrelevance of there being no direct flights from West Africa / Middle East etc.

Daisy Dasi

alastair wrote: »

I think the point* was that it's entirely possible to use an Irish airport as the first port of EU entry, if a connecting flight was caught in another safe country, but the asylum applicant didn't leave the international transit area. Clearly this is not going to be the case for many applicants, but nevertheless it is a possibility, and needs to be taken into account in any assessment.

* The irrelevance of there being no direct flights from West Africa / Middle East etc.

Then the first European country is where asylum should be seeked.....

Lucy and Harry

I think also many asylum seekers I have known have actually been the wealthy ones as the poor ones cant afford the air fare or charges smuggling gangs charge.

the people who are in the system 9 years are here pre-recession days...

Could the drain on them on our taxes be one of many factors in the recession happening.We have a tax that struggles to pay for hospitals and schools and roads so if a load of people show up and have nothing they put pressure on the system.?With so many people joining school that cant speak English are they not slowing down things for our own children in classes.Teachers have to go slow for the kids who cant use English very well.I think people came here also as we had very high dole and we were a easy touch.We have migrant people who show up for free hospital care.That cant be easy on a already crap health care system.

alastair

Daisy Dasi wrote: »

Then the first European country is where asylum should be seeked.....

Sure - and in that case (if the asylum applicant had travelled through a European international transit area on their way to Ireland), it would be Ireland as the first port of entry.

Daisy Dasi

alastair wrote: »

I think the point* was that it's entirely possible to use an Irish airport as the first port of EU entry, if a connecting flight was caught in another safe country, but the asylum applicant didn't leave the international transit area. Clearly this is not going to be the case for many applicants, but nevertheless it is a possibility, and needs to be taken into account in any assessment.

* The irrelevance of there being no direct flights from West Africa / Middle East etc.

Also if you say for example you were fleeing genocide or the treat of being killed in your country wouldn't you just be happy to get to safety? Inter connecting flights to Ireland make it sound as if they are coming to Ireland for a very specific reason same way we pick and choose our own holiday destinations with inter connecting flights through Heathrow

alastair

Daisy Dasi wrote: »

Also if you say for example you were fleeing genocide or the treat of being killed in your country wouldn't you just be happy to get to safety? Inter connecting flights to Ireland make it sound as if they are coming to Ireland for a very specific reason same way we pick and choose our own holiday destinations with inter connecting flights through Heathrow

It might. But that's part of the asylum assessment process. The simple absence of direct flights from Africa etc to Dublin is still irrelevant to whether an applicant is successful. Clearly all those applicants deemed genuine didn't charter direct flights.

Daisy Dasi

alastair wrote: »

I think the point* was that it's entirely possible to use an Irish airport as the first port of EU entry, if a connecting flight was caught in another safe country, but the asylum applicant didn't leave the international transit area. Clearly this is not going to be the case for many applicants, but nevertheless it is a possibility, and needs to be taken into account in any assessment.

* The irrelevance of there being no direct flights from West Africa / Middle East etc.

Also if you say for example you were fleeing genocide or the treat of being killed in your country wouldn't you just be happy to get to safety? Inter connecting flights to Ireland make it sound as if they are coming to Ireland for a very specific reason same way we pick and choose our own holiday destinations with inter connecting flights through Heathrow

Daisy Dasi

alastair wrote: »

It might. But that's part of the asylum assessment process. The simple absence of direct flights from Africa etc to Dublin is still irrelevant to whether an applicant is successful. Clearly all those applicants deemed genuine didn't charter direct flights.

But the Dublin Convention states to claim asylum in the first safe country.... flights to Ireland sounds too calculated for me.....

the_syco

Daisy Dasi wrote: »

What exactly is the reason Ireland is slow to deport failed asylum seekers?

I'm thinking a "lack" of a passport hinders the process of sending them back to where they came from. Also, lack of said passport can make it harder to prove that they are not from a war-torn country that Ireland won't send them back to.

Daisy Dasi wrote: »

Support groups such as Residents Against Racism and The Anti Deportation League have unrealistic goals in trying to get Ireland to abolish deportations.

Those who are not in power never have to balance the books, and thus always ask for the moon and the stars but without a credible way to pay.

Daisy Dasi wrote: »

The reason being: Ireland is not the first port of call for the majority of asylum seekers if not all as there are no direct flights from here to Africa or the war torn countries of the Middle East.

Once they don't leave the airport along the way, they don't "enter" anther country along the way, and thus we can be the 1st country they enter.

Daisy Dasi wrote: »

Inter connecting flights to Ireland make it sound as if they are coming to Ireland for a very specific reason same way we pick and choose our own holiday destinations with inter connecting flights through Heathrow

I wonder what happens when one asks the airport official about asylum in their country?

Daisy Dasi wrote: »

Also if you say for example you were fleeing genocide or the treat of being killed in your country wouldn't you just be happy to get to safety?

If you were fleeing a "political party", the first two countries you arrive in may already be full of people from the same "political party", and thus you look for a country where there isn't as many from said "political party".

alastair

Daisy Dasi wrote: »

But the Dublin Convention states to claim asylum in the first safe country.... flights to Ireland sounds too calculated for me.....

Again - it's entirely possible - as already explained, to claim asylum in Dublin airport, under the terms of the Dublin II mechanism. Whether you think it sounds calculated is a different matter - the case of the asylum claim are judged on their own merits - and no doubt any such suspicion of 'calculation' will come into play. Given the percentage of refused applications, clearly that judgement is found fairly regularly.

Lucy and Harry

Look at the ones in Calais France waiting and rioting to get on boats to the UK. Why not stay in France?

alastair

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

Look at the ones in Calais France waiting and rioting to get on boats to the UK. Why not stay in France?

Many more do. in 2012, France had 18.3% of asylum applications in the EU, while the UK had 8.4%, in 2013 France had 66,265 asylum applications, while the UK had 29,875. Calais just stands out because it's one of the few secure borders within the EU.

Nodin

Daisy Dasi wrote: »

it's very relevant as Ireland is continually getting slated for its low success rates of asylum seekers. If they have failed in their first port of call, why should they succeed here?

Have you evidence that the majority are refused because they have previously applied elsewhere? There is no obligation on asylum seekers to seek the "first safe country".

Daisy dasi wrote:

But the Dublin Convention states to claim asylum in the first safe country.

No, it does not.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59465073&postcount=4

Nodin

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

I think also many asylum seekers I have known have actually been the wealthy ones as the poor ones cant afford the air fare or charges smuggling gangs charge.

Could the drain on them on our taxes be one of many factors in the recession happening.We have a tax that struggles to pay for hospitals and schools and roads so if a load of people show up and have nothing they put pressure on the system.?With so many people joining school that cant speak English are they not slowing down things for our own children in classes.Teachers have to go slow for the kids who cant use English very well.I think people came here also as we had very high dole and we were a easy touch.We have migrant people who show up for free hospital care.That cant be easy on a already crap health care system.

The amount of asylum seekers here is quite small. The causes of the recession are known and have nothing to do with them. They are not entitled to the dole unless their claim is successful.

Lucy and Harry

Maybe I am mixing up migrant workers and asylum seekers.The country seems to be over come by people from exotic lands lately.

Nodin

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

Maybe I am mixing up migrant workers and asylum seekers.The country seems to be over come by people from exotic lands lately.

I'd imagine you are. No report on the recession has cited migrant workers either, I might add.

tolerant from cork

So, what do you all think about protest in Kinsale Road Accommodation Centre?

Pixie Elf

the complete lack of empathy for humanity in this thread is overwhelming..... there is so much nonsense in this thread purpoting as 'facts' that i cant begin to cover them all.. here i go to try and address somethings..............


It is not the fault of applicants that the asylum process takes so long, it is because Ireland once again has proven itself to be inefficient....

it is completely incorrect to say that all applicants are interviewed and decided upon within 6-12 months.... the process goes as follows -

arrival

asylum claim

interviewed and considered for refugee status - can take number of years

likely refused (ireland has extremely low rate of acceptance for refugee status)

choice - either appeal decision and go to high court or apply for other forms of protection (detailed below)

delays in high court due to a total lack of efficiency and it would appear no desire to appoint emergency judges to move through the backlog

subsidiary protection - limited rights if granted

humanitarian leave to remain - minimal rights if granted


this is why a single application procedure is being mooted


in order to 'qualify' for refugee status you have to meet extremely narrow requirements that were perhaps applicable 50 years ago but not today.....

the burden of proof rests with the applicant and in ireland you are considered 'guilty' until proven 'innocent'


one poster stated that we get sweet ... all from 'their' countries....showing a complete lack of understanding of the global system....................................

it would be utterly impossible for us in the developed world to have the lives we have without the resources of the developing world

for example; food, oil, diamonds, gold, laptops/mobile phones etc....

and before someone posts that we pay for everything we get - educate yourself.... the system is entirely designed to squeeze countries into only giving us raw materials therefore not allowing development and ensuring our supplies.............

not allowing development in countries will result in outward migration whether it is due to persecution or economic reasons...thats just the reality -

so in effect we (you and me) create and sustain the situation we find ourselves in....


HOWEVER

all of the above said...... as i understand it this discussion is about the protests which is not really about the macro issues.....

it is about people living in institutional settings for up to 10+ years and the impact this has on them and society as a whole

not allowed to work

not allowed to cook for their families

not allowed to educate themselves above leaving cert



I do not understand what the issue is with allowing people to work while their cases are being processed.............. surely any contribution to ireland at this time is greatly appreciated....or isnt it?

and the posts about it being recession dont have a leg to stand on

the system was the same all throughout the celtic tiger years

(19.10 per adult, 9.60 per child)

(single adults up to 6 sharing a room)

(entire families in 1 room)

(single mums sharing a room)


a side issue is also the fact that the large majority of accomodation is provided by private companies that are in the game for the profit..... and as we know when profit is the end goal corners are cut all the time.............

People are tired of living in this situation and are asking to be treated fairly......



in terms of the macro things such as stopping deportations - - - should we no longer call for world peace because it is unlikely to happen?

In terms of those that feel the country is overrun..... do you really want to live in such an insular world? do you feel that ireland is so perfect that we cant improve ourselves through experiencing elements of other cultures? .....and refer to my previous point that if you genuinely feel like that then lets also no longer engage with the global market..... that means nothing coming in or going out.... is that your vision for ireland?


I cant think of the other things i wanted to say other than is this the type of discussion we all hoped for when we were considered to be...

the country of a million thousand welcomes...

cead mile failte?

Gatling

They get a minimum 2 appeals for every part of the process .
Then come the kids which allows for more legal back and forward.
then the kids start schools don't deport until they finish primary school .
Then comes don't deport them the kids are in secondary school.
Don't deport till after the junior cert
Don't deport till after the leaving .
oh look were pregnant again don't deport us till after this Child goes through all the above processes again

tolerant from cork

(single adults up to 6 sharing a room)

(entire families in 1 room)

(single mums sharing a room)

None of the above applies in Kinsale Road Centre where the protest is.

Also, are you willing to give the protesters your own houses? They all need one each, or per family.