Am I putting my health at risk living here?

cormie

I've been renting the same place for about 8 years now, I got a rent reduction when the property market crashed and rental prices lowered everywhere and even with the recent increases, my landlady has said she won't increase the price as I'm a good tenant. I believe she could get at least 40% (no joke) more than what I'm paying if it were put back on the market. The place is very convenient for me for a number of reasons and moving would be a huge pain and would probably mean paying a much higher rent elsewhere. I've seen places that cost 60% more than what I'm paying that I'd prefer my current place to. She's a good landlady too, very little has gone wrong in that time, but when it has, it's been dealt with immediately.

One ongoing issue however, is damp, it's ruining what would other wise be a perfect place. In the summer it's no problem, but already, I feel it coming back to haunt me. I don't know has there been a lot of moisture in the air recently, but check out this video of a salt lamp and salt mill I have in my place: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sajJEE86HAQ

I had that lamp on for a few days in a row and all the moisture was well dried out, but after having it off for about 40 hours, that's what it resulted in, a pool of water below it, there's droplets on the salt mill too and clothes are now taking ages to dry aswell. I've put trickle vents on doors and windows and have them constantly open, I keep the back door ajar pretty much all the time and there's really not a whole lot more I can do to prevent this. Some mold spots are reappearing back at the doors and windows again and the walls are feeling cold. My place is below ground floor, it's not exactly basement, but it's say 3 steps below ground level.

During winter it's freezing here and you really need heat on all the time, if you have the stove on all night, even with the chimney blocked by the stove itself, all the heat is gone and it's freezing again come morning.

I've read how bad living in a damp and moldy environment can be and I'm actually suffering from a lingering cold at the moment with a tickly throat and the thought of living somewhere which is probably making it worse is really getting to me now. I do a lot to try improve my health but this is one thing that I can't just change. I'd like to stay here, but only if the problem went away, but I think it will require just too much for that to happen, I don't even know if it's possible as my place doesn't get a lot of light and of course is a slight basement dwelling so may be cursed with dampness regardless?!

If anyone has any suggestions of what to do, I'm all ears.

shruikan2553

Dehumidifier. I got one for 40 euro and it seems to be doing a good job to keep moisture down. Maybe you can convince your LL to pay for a bigger one.

1 month after mould cleaning and no signs of it coming back yet.

Grolschevik

I can't comment on the health aspects at all.

But buy a dehumidifier (about 150 in Argos) and several of those chemical crystal dehumidifying packs.

If you've been there that long with no obvious detrimental symptoms, you should be ok with the dehumidifying route.

cormie

Do dehumidifiers work that well? How can you determine the strength/frequency based on the size of the place? Should I have it constantly running and at what power etc or is it just a case of trial and error? I'd rather not have to put up with the humming all day and through the night, but if it means no damp and mold, I guess I'll have to. I also wonder how much it will add to the electricity bill to have running around the clock?

shruikan2553

Most will say the power consumption and area it will work in. In my case its up to 64 square feet and 25 watts.

Mine is quiet enough for night usage but I would assume the bigger ones would be louder.

Grolschevik

My five litre capacity one runs for a few hours almost every day. I move it round from room to room occasionally. It has added bugger all to the electric bill that I can notice.

The first time you empty it, you'll say to yourself 'that came out of the air?!'

We had a slight mildew problem within our first couple of months in our place. Nothing has recurred in the several years we've used a dehumidifier.

The_Conductor

I've a 20 litre unit that I run to help dry clothes. In normal operation here it takes about 2 days to remove 20 litres from the air. I've a smaller one upstairs as part of an A/C unit- it gets rid of its full capacity (5 litres) in overnight use.

Its quite normal to have to use these units.

Note- you can get activated charcoal sheets for their filters- makes a massive difference to the air quality.

cormie

Thanks again guys. I managed to get my hands on this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dimplex-Forte-10-Freestanding-Dehumidifier/dp/B005HI4XAI



I'm not sure if it's adequate for my whole place, but I'll use it for now and see if it makes a difference..

tenifan

Just a tip.. you really can't dry your clothes indoors in most apartments and definitely not basement apartments. I know it's not good for clothes but it sounds like you should get a tumble drier (if space is a concern, a 2 in 1 washing machine and tumble drier).

As for needing the heat on all the time in winter, it's a possibility. I used to rent a house with single-glazed windows and during the winter if I was home I had to blast the central heating and use a halogen heater just to have a comfortable living temperature. You need to weigh up whether your saving on rent compensates you for the extra heating costs.

El_Dangeroso

I'd really recommend a dehumidifier too, they should be mandatory in all houses in this damp Irish climate.

My one is a cheap 80 euro model from argos, don't even think it has a brand and it's brill.

I leave it on overnight in a room with a clothes horse full of wet clothes, in the morning, the clothes are 90% dry and the air in the room is noticably drier.

I can leave it on for 10hrs a day and have noticed no real bump in electricity cost.

The_Conductor

I'd second this- people seem to think they eat electricity- mine certainly doesn't- the compressor units are remarkably frugal.

NGC999888

People renting should all own a dehumidifier, the same way they own a television.
Just take it to the next place with you.
Too many people think, oh i'll just hang some clothes on a clothes horse in the bathroom, or ill put them on the rad to air them for a few mins, or even boiling spuds for a half an hour every few days, dont open windows, block vents, dont turn on the heat enough so they can save on electricity.

All of those things add moisture to the air, even if you think they dont. Temperature falls a little bit during the night and it condenses on the walls in the coldest room in the house. Next thing you have mold and you dont think its your fault at all.

Get yourself a good dehumidifier and take it with you wherever you move to and you wont have mould problems again.

shruikan2553

NGC999888 wrote: »

People renting should all own a dehumidifier, the same way they own a television.
Just take it to the next place with you.
Too many people think, oh i'll just hang some clothes on a clothes horse in the bathroom, or ill put them on the rad to air them for a few mins, or even boiling spuds for a half an hour every few days, dont open windows, block vents, dont turn on the heat enough so they can save on electricity.

All of those things add moisture to the air, even if you think they dont. Temperature falls a little bit during the night and it condenses on the walls in the coldest room in the house. Next thing you have mold and you dont think its your fault at all.

Get yourself a good dehumidifier and take it with you wherever you move to and you wont have mould problems again.

Dehumidifiers should definitely be standard. It is understandable how it happens in apartments and from my experience is where it happens the most. Washer/drier combos can be quite poor at drying clothes and storage heating is terrible. Then when there is mould very little is done to prevent it from returning. The LL might give it a quick wipe and then waits for it to return. Ive been told on one occasion that the mould that was there before me wont be a problem as long and I heated and aired out the place. In winter keeping the place aired and heated is very difficult to manage.

cormie

Thanks again for the replies folks.

I'm actually pretty good when it comes to airing the place, as I said, I've installed trickle vents which are constantly open (I put 6 on the front door and two on the back :pac:), there's a vent on the other side at the back and I keep the back door slightly ajar too. I was drying clothes outside as much as possible during summer but in winter, most of the drying is done indooors. I do go through a lot of washes as I play a lot of sports etc. I don't take 40 minute long hot showers steaming up the place and would usually open the back door fully if I think about it after a shower.

The washing machine is in the shed, the clothes horse is near the back door. The only interior door is at the toilet, the one separating the back room has been removed.

In the coldness of winter I'd have a heater with a thermostat on all day and not afraid to spend money for comfort in that regard. I certainly don't block vents either, even if the heat escapes very quickly. I don't do too much cooking either so it's just really what's in the ambient air I guess?

I've had the dehumidifier running all day now and it's collected about 2l of water up to now.

Do you think the Dehumidifier I've linked to is adequate for the area of my place?

pwurple

Your humidifier says room size 15m2. Your area is around 22.5m2. So you might need 2.

But you really should be able to tell yourself if it's damp or not. Are the walls wet?

Is there mould? Drying the place to the bone won't achieve a comfortable atmosphere either.

Humidity or dampness itself isn't harmful, heck I even run a humidifier to put moisture into the air when my kids have a cold... I sat in a steam room for hours when I had a sinus infection to clear it. It's the spores from mould which can irritate people's lungs. Mould likes to grow in damp conditions, but it needs sustained dampness usually to get established. So, Is there mould, or is there not?

Oh, and dry your clothes in the yard or the shed for goodness sake.

NGC999888

If you are getting the mould predominantly at one end of the apartment put the dehumidifier there (make sure there is a door on the room - you seem to lack doors for some reason).
Leave it on all day and all night. Dont dry any more clothes inside the building. You'll start to notice the difference in a week or so.
Then wash the walls down with bleach and water to get rid of it once it has started to thin out anyway.
After that leave your dehumidifier on whenever you go out, even in the summer.

By the way you can have too many vents too. These will effect how well your dehumidifier works. You might end up that the moisture you are collecting is from the air outside.

cormie

I dry my clothes in the yard as much as possible, the shed is too small to dry in really and it's quite damp in there too so I think by the time the clothes dry, they'll have obtained a musky smell and need to be washed again :P

There is mould spots appearing now that the weather is getting bad again. They are appearing near the front door and the front window, I do have a dettol mould wipe spray but I want to get to the root of it and not just be wiping mould away every few weeks. I'll leave the dehumidifier plugged in, not constantly on so not to completely remove moisture from the air.

My main goal is to have healthy air so I'm not breathing in mould spores and not overheated with recycled air. I'd rather have good air circulation and spend a bit more on bills than be breathing recycled air. Will try to get most of the clothes drying done outside anyway and give a good going over of any mould I can find.

shruikan2553

cormie wrote: »

I dry my clothes in the yard as much as possible, the shed is too small to dry in really and it's quite damp in there too so I think by the time the clothes dry, they'll have obtained a musky smell and need to be washed again :P

There is mould spots appearing now that the weather is getting bad again. They are appearing near the front door and the front window, I do have a dettol mould wipe spray but I want to get to the root of it and not just be wiping mould away every few weeks. I'll leave the dehumidifier plugged in, not constantly on so not to completely remove moisture from the air.

My main goal is to have healthy air so I'm not breathing in mould spores and not overheated with recycled air. I'd rather have good air circulation and spend a bit more on bills than be breathing recycled air. Will try to get most of the clothes drying done outside anyway and give a good going over of any mould I can find.

Use the dehumidifier where the mould is starting. I recommend the HG mould spray over the dettol. I found it came back after a few weeks with dettol. Maybe get something to tell you the humidity in the air so you know when you need to use it or when to stop so you dont dry out the air too much.

NGC999888

cormie wrote: »

I dry my clothes in the yard as much as possible, the shed is too small to dry in really and it's quite damp in there too so I think by the time the clothes dry, they'll have obtained a musky smell and need to be washed again :P

There is mould spots appearing now that the weather is getting bad again. They are appearing near the front door and the front window, I do have a dettol mould wipe spray but I want to get to the root of it and not just be wiping mould away every few weeks. I'll leave the dehumidifier plugged in, not constantly on so not to completely remove moisture from the air.

My main goal is to have healthy air so I'm not breathing in mould spores and not overheated with recycled air. I'd rather have good air circulation and spend a bit more on bills than be breathing recycled air. Will try to get most of the clothes drying done outside anyway and give a good going over of any mould I can find.

Dont TRY to get most of the clothes drying done outside. NEVER dry your clothes inside unless its in a condenser dryer. Once is enough to get mould a foothold in there. That doesnt mean "as much as possible".

Leave your dehumidifier on all the time, not just when you notice mould. When you notice mould spots its too late, the place is covered in microscopic spores that you wont see for weeks at that stage.
There should be a humidity setting on the dehumidifier that it drys the air out to. Set that to 50%. If the mould isnt going away set it to 40% and once its going away leave it at that setting. It should come on and off itself then.

People in Ireland dont seem to understand that once you see any mould spots at all its too late to open windows or start drying clothes outside etc. At that stage get yourself a dehumidifier and use it. But most people want to wait and get their landlord to sort it out for them, instead of acting themselves. And waiting for someone else to do it for you, you are only making the problem worse. I even know people who have seen a dehumidifier in a rentel when they view it and rejected the place becasue they think a dehumidifier means mould. Fact is the landlord is providing the tools for the tenant to not let a mould problem get out of hand. All apartments should be supplied with one in the first place, but there is a stigma to a landlord leaving one in an apartment, so people should buy their own and use them.

There is mould somewhere in most houses in Ireland. Apartments are worse because they are smaller areas and because of the facts i mentioned in a previous post that are conducive to mould.

cormie

Ok, thanks a lot for the advice again The dehumidifier I have doesn't appear to have any humidity setting, it just goes from off, through 1 to 10 and continuous is the highest setting. I might see if I can get a humidity reader somewhere and just keep an eye on that. What's an ideal level of humidity in the air?

NGC999888

cormie wrote: »

Ok, thanks a lot for the advice again The dehumidifier I have doesn't appear to have any humidity setting, it just goes from off, through 1 to 10 and continuous is the highest setting. I might see if I can get a humidity reader somewhere and just keep an eye on that. What's an ideal level of humidity in the air?

Start at 5 then and work your way down til you are not getting mould.
The percentage on a dehumidifier doesnt mean anything anyway because they are always way off.

The ideal level is the level at which you dont get mould in your apartment.

DIYalot

Don't dry clothes indoors without a dehumidifier running. You could find another apartment and still have the same problems if u dont understand the causes. Look at the sources of moisture rather than the apartment being the issue. air it out for 20 mins in the morning too

cormie

Thanks again Don't think I'll be plugging out the dehumidifier any time soon or daring to hang clothes indoors

The_Conductor

FYI- a normal level of humidy in a home is probably around 60%
If you go much lower- you will get dry eyes and a soar throat.
In Scandinavia- its normal to wet towels and put them on radiators- to increase humidity for this very reason- if you're in any house in Sweden- have a look around- you'll see towels on all the radiators........

cormie

Interesting, I had a bit of a cold the last few days and it was almost better yesterday, I felt fine when I was out and about, but when I got back to my place, after the humidifier had been running most of the day, I got a sore throat again after a while. My eyes didn't seem affected at all, so I'm not sure if it's just I'm not fully over my cold, or if the humidity was too low

Maybe I should just move to a sunny country, I think I'm much better suited to a warm climate

The_Conductor

Don't bet on it- the humidy levels in Spain and Portugal- from Oct through to March- can be quite ridiculously high. We have to run a free flowing dehumidifier out there the whole time- or else our clothes and furnishings would be destroyed. Anywhere north of Lisbon on the coast is in a fog bank for between 4 and 5 months of the year...... People don't realise- they think of the Algarve and imagine that most of Spain and Portugal must be like this- they're not.........

cormie

Interesting about the humidity! So is the Algarve much better in terms of Humidity?


I came back here to ask, if not drying clothes indoors, what are you supposed to do on days like we've been having recently? Unless you're at home monitoring the weather all day and taking clothes in and out, there's a huge chance they'll get soaked and wetter than when they come out of the washing machine and you're stuck then trying to get them dry again and the cycle continues. I'm trying to be vigilant in keeping all drying outdoors now, but it's only going to get worse as the weather does too. I put on a few washes each week, probably more than most solo folk as I do a lot of sports and get dirty in my work too, but if I had a family and we were putting on 1 or two washes a day it would be impossible to have a drying system relying on the weather.

turbot

You should read about what David Asprey has to say about the damp and mould in households. See: BulletProofExec.com

Airborne toxins released from damp and mouldy apartments can impair health and reduce performance and cause serious health issues. much worse. Based on what I know, I would take this issue seriously. Research it properly and get expert advice.

Woshy

I lived in NZ for a few years and all the houses there are so damp (no heating or insulation). I agree with all the suggestions of a dehumidifier. One thing I will say is, our health never noticeably suffered but our possessions did. Quite a few items of furniture, clothing etc we're ruined by mould because of the damp. Just something to be aware of.

cormie

Thanks guys, since using the dehumidifier I'm glad to say the place has seemed to dried out a bit. The lamp and salt shaker are no longer wet to the touch. I always thought dehumidifiers were only for extreme cases, much much worse than mine and didn't realise they were to be used as part of maintaining proper levels in most apartments.

Why aren't they built in to kitchens or bathrooms with a feeder tap to the sink so they never have to be emptied I wonder? Would be much handier.