If the UK asked Ireland to rejoin the Union, how would you vote?

Summer wind

No. Just no.

Karl Stein

Skylinehead wrote: »

Not enough to be the sole reason to rejoin the union.

Because Fratton Fred's excuse does not hold water. According to the source above France is number 1 and a plethora of other European nations rank above the UK's 18th (Ireland 19th). If healthcare was FF's motivation (Lol) for Ireland giving up independence and returning to British rule then he'd be rabidly European seeing as France, Italy, Austria, Norway, The Netherlands, Luxembourg, Iceland, Greece, Portugal and Spain all rank higher than the UK.

No. I'm afraid I'm not convinced of Fred's care of sick Irish people at all. Not one bit.

Mr. G

I'd vote no. Not worth the effort and I don't agree with some of the UK views. I prefer it the way it is. If it aint broke, don't fix it

policarp

Mr. G wrote: »

I'd vote no. Not worth the effort and I don't agree with some of the UK views. I prefer it the way it is. If it aint broke, don't fix it

It is broke in more ways than one.
But I still wouldn't want to be a subject again. . .

ZeroThreat

A very good reason for voting no would be the fact that the UK has been involved in more wars around the globe than any nation in history (including the US) and continuing up to the present. We'd be permanently involved sending troops to hot wars all over the place. Even up to the present day, it usually tries to get involved in any war taking place, despite having shrunk it's armed forces below the levels needed for this amount of activity (baring Syria which was luckily defeated by the party members for once), a rate exception to the norm.

AngeGal

I remember seeing a topic on AH about whether boards.ie was a fair representation of Ireland or something along those lines (didn't actually read the thread). This poll proves it isn't. %19 in favour of rejoining the uk? If there was a referendum it would poll about %4.

barneystinson

No to reject rejoining the Union

AngeGal wrote: »

I remember seeing a topic on AH about whether boards.ie was a fair representation of Ireland or something along those lines (didn't actually read the thread). This poll proves it isn't. %19 in favour of rejoining the uk? If there was a referendum it would poll about %4.

Well this is AH so I voted yes purely to see the kind of foaming at the mouth that would ensue - I'm sure I'm not the only one. So really your question should be, is a poll on AH likely to be representative and the answer is obviously fúcking not!!

jank

Skylinehead wrote: »

I'm not sure why you're equating being a member of the EU and effectively being a colony of the British Empire as we were, there's absolutely no comparison to be made. And when we left, was it all fine and dandy? Of course not.

A colony? Is Scotland a colony of the UK as well? You do realise that we had Irish MP's in Westminster.

jank

Karl Stein wrote: »

Really?

According to businessinsider.com Ireland ranks 19th and the UK ranks 18th in best healthcare systems.

Do you think Irish people are incapable of improving our healthcare system so we should give up our hard won independence and return to British rule?

Really?

Yet, the question remains. Why is Ireland so incapable of running its own affairs in a normal mature manner like most other European nation states. The HSE is a perfect example of an Irish cock up. Our politics still hark back to the days of the civil war, our economy is consistent cycle of boom and bust with huge numbers left to find work in all corners of the Anglosphere world. Voters elect local councillors to fix themselves up with a medical card or fix some potholes. There is little to no accountability within the higher echelons of the establishment. Just this week we have had the Labour leader talking about the possibility of reinstating a Christmas bonus to the tune of 260 million at a time where we are still borrowing money to pay for the day to day running of the state. It seems the cycle continues because there is a large section of Irish voters lap this stuff up.

the_syco

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

A federal Union of the 4 great states who built the Empire. Ireland is unified and old tensions die, a new force to lead the way, two islands united. We're not European we're British and Irish Dammit!

Rather be a kraut than a brit!

Deedsie

jank wrote: »

A colony? Is Scotland a colony of the UK as well? You do realise that we had Irish MP's in Westminster.

Was Scotland planted by English and Scottish loyalists? Were lands confiscated like they were from Gaelic and Hiberno Norman dynasties in Ireland? Ireland was the first colony, we were a staging post where organisations and methods used throughout the empire were trialled. For examples the Mounties in Canada were organised & based upon the RIC. Plantations in Ireland were examples on how to do it for the rest of the empire.

Anyway, yes of course Ireland was a colony. Lands were confiscated from Irish lords and given to English and Scottish Colonists.

We had MP's from 1801, big whoop you had to be a member of the ascendency to take a seat at the beginning of our time in the union. So prior to 1801 when we had our own ascendent parliament we were a colony based on your assertion that having MP's made you an equal member of the United Kingdom. And it was long after 1801 that a catholic managed to take a seat in the House of Commons.

We were most definitely a colony, we provided food, cannon fodder and an ideal location to try out practices that would be used throughout the empire.

DarkyHughes

Karl Stein wrote: »

I'm interested in why you would vote yes.

Why would you vote for Ireland to rejoin the 'Union'?

Because he's a troll stop feeding him.

DarkyHughes

DarkyHughes wrote: »

But we should also remember all the brave British people who stuck their necks out for the Republican cause, like Tony Benn & Ken Livingstone who was nearly executed by the UDA/DUP for his support for Sinn fein & a United Ireland. And George Galloway who was denounced by the Brit media establishment for meeting with Republican leaders just to try & get a ceasefire & try to convince the Republicans the gun was getting them nowhere. Yes, we've had many British people who helped us with our liberation struggle.

And although the Provos didn't reach the ultimate goal they did make life 100 times better for nationalists living in the North so better in fact some aren't to fuss about leaving.

And even tho I'm a Republican most people must automatically assume I'm violent. I hate, hate, hate violence the Hidden Hand documentary in 1993 moved me to tears, one of the real sad things was you knew the victims in the program weren't going to get justice. And Cosgraves "law & order" government had no intention in bringing anyone to justice Treason by a government against it's own people. And the people who deliberately sent men, women & children to their deaths by giving the police false info on where the Omagh bomb was are the scum of the Earth & yet despite the outrage at their war crime the still continue their futile campaign I have no problem with IRA man killing a brit soldier or a Brit killing a IRA volunteer but deliberately killing innocent people is pure evil plain & simple.

Jawgap

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree but are the NHS really that far ahead Fratton?

In terms of clinical care the NHS is not that far ahead of the HSE, but administratively is light years beyond what we have here. Plus, - and this is a big change we could introduce here tomorrow - there is accountability in the NHS; people are held to account for their actions and if they are found wanting they are disciplined up to the point of dismissal.

Likewise the professional bodies are not shy about withdrawing indiviuals' permission to practice if they cock-up.

It's also free at the point of delivery and covered through your general taxation.

I don't know about France, but in Germany (one of the other countries cited as having a better system than the NHS) - you must take out public health insurance. The Federal Government regulates the price. When I was there it was about 7% of your salary (with the employer paying in a similar amount). And you still have to pay a nominal amount when you go for care. You could opt out of the public system and pay for private healthcase but only if your salary was above a certain level.

I wonder how willing people would be here to accept an extra 7% in 'tax' for German levels of health care?

US - sort your own insurance out or you're f&*cked! I don't know how much it cost me because it was negotiated as part of a salary package.

On balance, I thought the NHS was the best of all the systems I've experienced - but I'd agree that it would not be reason enough, on its own, to vote in favour of joining E, W & S in some sort of federated union.

Nodin

jank wrote: »

Yet, the question remains. Why is Ireland so incapable of running its own affairs in a normal mature manner like most other European nation states. The HSE is a perfect example of an Irish cock up. Our politics still hark back to the days of the civil war, our economy is consistent cycle of boom and bust with huge numbers left to find work in all corners of the Anglosphere world. Voters elect local councillors to fix themselves up with a medical card or fix some potholes. There is little to no accountability within the higher echelons of the establishment. Just this week we have had the Labour leader talking about the possibility of reinstating a Christmas bonus to the tune of 260 million at a time where we are still borrowing money to pay for the day to day running of the state. It seems the cycle continues because there is a large section of Irish voters lap this stuff up.

Amazingly blinkered bit of self loathing there.

Jawgap

Nodin wrote: »

Amazingly blinkered bit of self loathing there.

It's not self-loathing - it's (largely) true.

We're a small compact country and we should be able to use that massively to our advantage.

I've just finished a 13 year stint working in the Public Service, and the inefficiencies are unbelievable, as is the level of political interference - and it's not even interference in pursuit of maximising national interests. It's political interference driven by narrow, parochial and sectoral interests.

There is zero accountability but oceans of begrudgery.

And we will continue to drift along for as long as we keep electing gombeen TDs who come from 'good people,' or whose fathers (and grandfathers) held the seat - or the latest phenomenon - the photogenic 'professional political operative' (the Stepford TD) with zero life experience who is willing to blindly follow the mouthpieces who lead their party while offering their unquestioning support to every utterance they make.

Jawgap

Jawgap wrote: »

It's not self-loathing - it's (largely) true.

We're a small compact country and we should be able to use that massively to our advantage.

I've just finished a 13 year stint working in the Public Service, and the inefficiencies are unbelievable, as is the level of political interference - and it's not even interference in pursuit of maximising national interests. It's political interference driven by narrow, parochial and sectoral interests.

There is zero accountability but oceans of begrudgery.

And we will continue to drift along for as long as we keep electing gombeen TDs who come from 'good people,' or whose fathers (and grandfathers) held the seat - or the latest phenomenon - the photogenic 'professional political operative' (the Stepford TD) with zero life experience who is willing to blindly follow the mouthpieces who lead their party while offering their unquestioning support to every utterance they make.

Ah yes the Leo Varadkar's and the Simon Coveney's

Richard Hillman

No to reject rejoining the Union

I would preferably like to see it happen at the same time Charles takes throne. It will be a good time for a fresh start and a great boost to King Charles reign.

Jawgap

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah yes the Leo Varadkar's and the Simon Coveney's

Well, I was thinking of other parties' and their 'cookie cutter' approach to producing paid political operatives

In fairness, Varadkar, while an idiot in most respects, has worked as a doctor so I'd assume he has some bit of experience of life in the real world.

Coveney strikes as someone who thought it would be a bit of a wheeze to go into politics instead of going to work - the Irish version of the Toryboy!

Jellybaby1

No to reject rejoining the Union

jank wrote: »

Yet, the question remains. Why is Ireland so incapable of running its own affairs in a normal mature manner like most other European nation states. The HSE is a perfect example of an Irish cock up. Our politics still hark back to the days of the civil war, our economy is consistent cycle of boom and bust with huge numbers left to find work in all corners of the Anglosphere world. Voters elect local councillors to fix themselves up with a medical card or fix some potholes. There is little to no accountability within the higher echelons of the establishment. Just this week we have had the Labour leader talking about the possibility of reinstating a Christmas bonus to the tune of 260 million at a time where we are still borrowing money to pay for the day to day running of the state. It seems the cycle continues because there is a large section of Irish voters lap this stuff up.

Deedsie wrote: »

Was Scotland planted by English and Scottish loyalists? Were lands confiscated like they were from Gaelic and Hiberno Norman dynasties in Ireland? Ireland was the first colony, we were a staging post where organisations and methods used throughout the empire were trialled. For examples the Mounties in Canada were organised & based upon the RIC. Plantations in Ireland were examples on how to do it for the rest of the empire.

Anyway, yes of course Ireland was a colony. Lands were confiscated from Irish lords and given to English and Scottish Colonists.

We had MP's from 1801, big whoop you had to be a member of the ascendency to take a seat at the beginning of our time in the union. So prior to 1801 when we had our own ascendent parliament we were a colony based on your assertion that having MP's made you an equal member of the United Kingdom. And it was long after 1801 that a catholic managed to take a seat in the House of Commons.

We were most definitely a colony, we provided food, cannon fodder and an ideal location to try out practices that would be used throughout the empire.

It is rare for me to get involved in political conversations. However, I cannot disagree with either of the above.

jank

Nodin wrote: »

Amazingly blinkered bit of self loathing there.

Ah the ol pull on the green jersey comment. Point out a negative thing about Ireland and I hate myself and the country. What I say is largely true, care to comment on any if it?

Dirty Dingus McGee

jank wrote: »

Ah the ol pull on the green jersey comment. Point out a negative thing about Ireland and I hate myself and the country. What I say is largely true, care to comment on any if it?

I think the reason it was pointed out as self loathing is that although what you say is true about Ireland it's also true about a lot of other countries as well, but for some reason we in Ireland only think that we are the only country with these issues.

Lucy and Harry

Is it true English people are going to be having a vote on weather they want to stay in the Union next?I think some feel they would be better off money wise without N Ireland and Scotland.

Originally Posted by jank View Post
Yet, the question remains. Why is Ireland so incapable of running its own affairs in a normal mature manner like most other European nation states.

The whole of Europe was in trouble over austerity and Italy Spain Portugal Greece have had riots over how they are run.Every country has grumbles.England Scotland Wales are hardly living it up.Poverty and no jobs and recession is effecting all not just us.America is messed up too domestically



I think until the British government admits they helped loyalists do the Dublin Monaghan bombings we should stay apart.

VinLieger

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I think the reason it was pointed out as self loathing is that although what you say is true about Ireland it's also true about a lot of other countries as well, but for some reason we in Ireland only think that we are the only country with these issues.

I don't think we think we are the only ones we just think its ridiculous that we have them, whats wrong with pointing out the complete and constant failures of our political system?

We arent a perfect country far from it but its okay to criticise how things work and still love your country, in fact id consider it being a hell of a lot more patriotic to criticise whats wrong instead of putting on the emerald blinkers and just parroting "sure its grand" everytime something bad happens

VinLieger

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

Is it true English people are going to be having a vote on weather they want to stay in the Union next?I think some feel they would be better off money wise without N Ireland and Scotland.

That would be awesome, I can just imagine the unionists up North tearing their hair out over the rest of the UK voting to get rid of them

daviecronin

I'm surprised nearly 20% voted yes! Does loyalty exist anymore? We should be striving towards a united Ireland not the other way around.

Dirty Dingus McGee

VinLieger wrote: »

I don't think we think we are the only ones we just think its ridiculous that we have them, whats wrong with pointing out the complete and constant failures of our political system?

We arent a perfect country far from it but its okay to criticise how things work and still love your country, in fact id consider it being a hell of a lot more patriotic to criticise whats wrong instead of putting on the emerald blinkers and just parroting "sure its grand" everytime something bad happens

There's nothing wrong with what he said and people should be criticizing this country if it deserves it.

VinLieger

daviecronin wrote: »

I'm surprised nearly 20% voted yes! Does loyalty exist anymore? We should be striving towards a united Ireland not the other way around.

Emm us entering back into the Union would create a United Ireland just not the one certain people want.

branie2

I would vote no as well

Lucy and Harry

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I would preferably like to see it happen at the same time Charles takes throne. It will be a good time for a fresh start and a great boost to King Charles reign.

I would rather William than Charles.I could see Charles never being king as he and his lover will never be liked more than William and Kate and there babies.
But still do we need a king of Ireland when people were killed in this country for not swearing allegiance to the crown.It would be like pissing on their graves to join a Union.

Jawgap

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I think the reason it was pointed out as self loathing is that although what you say is true about Ireland it's also true about a lot of other countries as well, but for some reason we in Ireland only think that we are the only country with these issues.

No, it's not true of a lot of other countries - as has been pointed out many other countries have better healthcare system (and because of that they don't get dragged into medical card type situations); few have a political class and political parties defined by which side of a civil war they were on; and the resource allocation mechanisms are transparent, fair and objective.

Yes, these countries have their scandals, but when they happen the response - in contrast to here - is swift and decisive. People are held to account, unlike Ireland - when was the last time a politician resigned here on a point of principle? We are obsessed with process (in the same way the Yanks are) and practically blind to consequence.

Is anyone confident the Banking Inquiry is going to achieve anything? Likewise the Mother & Baby Home Inquiry (ffs, how long does it take to draft a ToR document!!). Who is in prison as result of the banking collapse?

Indeed we've gone on to practically canonise the chief architect of the bank guarantee scheme!

VinLieger wrote: »

I don't think we think we are the only ones we just think its ridiculous that we have them, whats wrong with pointing out the complete and constant failures of our political system?

We arent a perfect country far from it but its okay to criticise how things work and still love your country, in fact id consider it being a hell of a lot more patriotic to criticise whats wrong instead of putting on the emerald blinkers and just parroting "sure its grand" everytime something bad happens

Indeed, most people in Ireland have no concept of a 'loyal opposition' - we suffer from the same narrow nationalism that Gordon Brown railed against in his speeches in the run up to the Scottish referendum. Perhaps that's something else we can blame the English for

jank

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I think the reason it was pointed out as self loathing is that although what you say is true about Ireland it's also true about a lot of other countries as well, but for some reason we in Ireland only think that we are the only country with these issues.

Where did I mention that other counties are perfect with no problems of their own. The scope of this topic is about Ireland and a potential union with Britain. I can't stand the "we live in a third world country" types. They are utterly clueless ***** but we have to be mature to reflect on our failures as well as our success. The problem with Ireland is that everything is an extreme. We are the best little country in the world blah blah blah or we are a dump no better than a third world country. Nodins comment is proof of this. Instead of engaging in a discourse he just posts a a drive by insult that I must hate myself and the country because I ask valid questions about the HSE, the parochial politics, boom and bust economics and paying off voters with populist measures. Much easier to smear the messenger rather then admiting that Ireland has massive problems in these areas.

Lucy and Harry

The love Ulster orange order march outside the GPO remember that.Riots.I think if we joined the Union we could expect the same kind of rioting and also I do not want to give my tax to pay for a Royal family in England.Bad enough having water charges and a house charge.I am not paying for the King to eat and drink food I cant afford myself.

Jawgap

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

The love Ulster orange order march outside the GPO remember that.Riots.I think if we joined the Union we could expect the same kind of rioting and also I do not want to give my tax to pay for a Royal family in England.Bad enough having water charges and a house charge.I am not paying for the King to eat and drink food I cant afford myself.

So if the UK was reconstituted as a federal republic you'd have no problem?

Btw, if you think just because we live in a republic we're not paying for sumptuous meals for others then you're mistaken.

The only real downside I've noticed since moving on from the Public Service is the lack of access to a subsidised restaurant!

Dirty Dingus McGee

jank wrote: »

Where did I mention that other counties are perfect with no problems of their own. The scope of this topic is about Ireland and a potential union with Britain. I can't stand the "we live in a third world country" types. They are utterly clueless ***** but we have to be mature to reflect on our failures as well as our success. The problem with Ireland is that everything is an extreme. We are the best little country in the world blah blah blah or we are a dump no better than a third world country. Nodins comment is proof of this. Instead of engaging in a discourse he just posts a a drive by insult that I must hate myself and the country because I ask valid questions about the HSE, the parochial politics, boom and bust economics and paying off voters with populist measures. Much easier to smear the messenger rather then admiting that Ireland has massive problems in these areas.

I wasn't saying you were wrong to make those points what I was saying is that those issues affect lots of countries and that Nodins comments were correct in a way as lots of people in Ireland seem to think the issues you mention above are unique to this country when they certainly aren't. Seeing as this thread is about rejoining the UK it is highly doubtful that any of the above issues you raise would change if we joined the UK.We should be striving to improve this country, and running our own affairs is the only way to do it not handing over the responsibility to the UK.

Nodin

jank wrote: »

Where did I mention that other counties are perfect with no problems of their own. .

When you made the remark "Why is Ireland so incapable of running its own affairs in a normal mature manner like most other European nation states"

jank wrote: »

The scope of this topic is about Ireland and a potential union with Britain. I can't stand the "we live in a third world country" types. They are utterly clueless ***** but we have to be mature to reflect on our failures as well as our success. The problem with Ireland is that everything is an extreme. We are the best little country in the world blah blah blah or we are a dump no better than a third world country. Nodins comment is proof of this. Instead of engaging in a discourse he just posts a a drive by insult that I must hate myself and the country because I ask valid questions about the HSE, the parochial politics, boom and bust economics and paying off voters with populist measures. Much easier to smear the messenger rather then admiting that Ireland has massive problems in these areas.

You seem to be getting angry and are personalising the debate. That won't help get the point across, tbh. All countries have problems, faults etc. You seem to take Ireland and leave out the context.

DarkyHughes

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Because Ireland fails to provide its citizens and residents with a decent functional healthcare system.

I've had a close relative go through the healthcare system here and whilst it is staffed by incredibly hard working and dedicated people, it is a shambles.

The sheer fact of a state run health insurance company is a reflection of that.

So you'd like to go to state who has more of a socialist health care system. Interesting

Jawgap

DarkyHughes wrote: »

So you'd like to go to state who has more of a socialist health care system. Interesting

No - I think it's a case that people would like to have a functioning healthcare system - one that actually puts the patient at the centre the clinical care process.

Rather than the HSE, whose management seem to just wish we would just hurry up and die so they can be spared the hassle of having to arrange care.

Fratton Fred

No to reject rejoining the Union

DarkyHughes wrote: »

So you'd like to go to state who has more of a socialist health care system. Interesting

I thought you were ignoring me?

Merging the HSE & NHS would be a massive benefit.

Fratton Fred

No to reject rejoining the Union

Jawgap wrote: »

No - I think it's a case that people would like to have a functioning healthcare system - one that actually puts the patient at the centre the clinical care process.

Rather than the HSE, whose management seem to just wish we would just hurry up and die so they can be spared the hassle of having to arrange care.

That's it in a nutshell.

Our experience of it has been one that is driven by meeting KPI targets. You need a scan? Six weeks, then it's six weeks to see the consultant again, who sends you for a blood test, so the blood test team are only interested in meeting their KPI.

Everyone is so focused on meeting targets, they miss the most important one, fixing whatever ailment the patient actually has, so they end up dealing with an acute case that could have been nipped in the bud months earlier.

But it's no one's fault, because they all met their targets.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Fratton Fred wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell.

Our experience of it has been one that is driven by meeting KPI targets. You need a scan? Six weeks, then it's six weeks to see the consultant again, who sends you for a blood test, so the blood test team are only interested in meeting their KPI.

Everyone is so focused on meeting targets, they miss the most important one, fixing whatever ailment the patient actually has, so they end up dealing with an acute case that could have been nipped in the bud months earlier.

But it's no one's fault, because they all met their targets.

Have you sent an letters, e-mails to your local TD about this?

UCDVet

No to reject rejoining the Union

I don't know much about politics - but isn't joining the EU pretty much the same as joining the UK?

Fratton Fred

No to reject rejoining the Union

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Have you sent an letters, e-mails to your local TD about this?

No, too worried about looking after a terminally ill relative at the moment.

Having to write to a TD to get a pensioner basic healthcare is a sure sign of a broken system though. Besides, what are they going to do.

David429

I understand this discussion is hypothetical but I would vote NO and I think anyone that would even consider voting Yes to joining the U.K should seriously consider themselves as an Irish citizen.

Our culture, Language and ethnic Identity is something that is and should be to a greater extent celebrated.

Previous generations had to endure being a second class citizen in their own country for being a Catholic and for being Irish.

It flabbergasts me to think some of my fellow Irish men and women would even think of such a thought.

The British spared no feeling in attempting to eradicate our history and traditions and replace with their own. Our founding father's of the Irish Republic literally laid down their lives for the country we live in today, a feat which should not be forgotten.

I think some people need to take a look around and realise although we do share a great deal in common with the U.K. we have our own uniqueness, something which should never be jeopardised.

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

No, too worried about looking after a terminally ill relative at the moment.

Having to write to a TD to get a pensioner basic healthcare is a sure sign of a broken system though. Besides, what are they going to do.

Fair enough.

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-12464831

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-24752241

http://www.itv.com/news/2013-08-28/family-forced-to-bring-in-ice-lollies-to-keep-pensioner-hydrated-due-to-poor-hospital-care/

Dirty Dingus McGee

Fratton Fred wrote: »

No, too worried about looking after a terminally ill relative at the moment.

Having to write to a TD to get a pensioner basic healthcare is a sure sign of a broken system though. Besides, what are they going to do.

If you and every person in this country wrote letters to their TD's kicked up a storm whenever you got bad treatment TD's would see that the health system is failing their constituents and perhaps raise the issue in the Dáil.

Until people actually complain to the people who can make some sort of a difference nothing will change.We want change in this country but don't want to be bothered doing anything to get change.

Pwindedd

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

The love Ulster orange order march outside the GPO remember that.Riots.I think if we joined the Union we could expect the same kind of rioting and also I do not want to give my tax to pay for a Royal family in England.Bad enough having water charges and a house charge.I am not paying for the King to eat and drink food I cant afford myself.

That extra 56p won't get you much caviar in fairness. http://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/484893/Proof-our-sovereign-really-is-worth-her-weight-in-gold

VinLieger

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

If you and every person in this country wrote letters to their TD's kicked up a storm whenever you got bad treatment TD's would see that the health system is failing their constituents and perhaps raise the issue in the Dáil.

Until people actually complain to the people who can make some sort of a difference nothing will change.We want change in this country but don't want to be bothered doing anything to get change.

Aww thats sweet you still think writing a letter will make something actually change.

It will be a story for a day maybe a week and then they will move onto the next issue forgetting about it until it becomes politically advantageous for them again to talk about it.

Jawgap

Nodin wrote: »

Fair enough.

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-12464831

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-24752241

http://www.itv.com/news/2013-08-28/family-forced-to-bring-in-ice-lollies-to-keep-pensioner-hydrated-due-to-poor-hospital-care/

Sad cases, and it shows that even the best systems can't protect everyone.

Interesting, don't you think, that the reports reference a Health Service Ombudsman?

We don't have any such office here - just the 'regular' ombudsman who is expected to cover all areas of public administration. Refreshing to see the words 'independent review' cited in some those cases - something the HSE rarely if ever permit.

Interesting too, that the UK has a Patient Safety Agency - something we were promised but have never got. We also have nothing that equates to NICE.

Yes, we have HIQA who are pretty good but lack the independence of NICE.

If we were serious about healthcare reform we'd have the proper governance structures in place, including a proper independent PSA.

And don't even lets get started on mental health care in this country.......

Dirty Dingus McGee

VinLieger wrote: »

Aww thats sweet you still think writing a letter will make something actually change.

It will be a story for a day maybe a week and then they will move onto the next issue forgetting about it until it becomes politically advantageous for them again to talk about it.

If the health service is so bad and it is failing so many people then perhaps thousands of letters, protests and continued pressure on politicians to improve it might bring about a change.

We get the politicians and therefore public services we deserve.