Banned (again) from Fantasy Sports Arena

roryc

Hi,

Following on from this thread - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057284840

The original ban I was disputing ended on Friday. I logged in and saw some of the other posters were discussing the fact that we hadn't been posting, and one of them (not me) posted a link to the Dispute Resolution thread. I responded with the below message to hopefully stop people talking about it and get back on topic.

"Yep, was on a little two week break! Don’t want to drag this thread OT discussing moderating decisions as it will result in another ban. Unsure if I’ll post as much on the forum anymore but at least the thread above has clarified that the other poster will receive a ban if he replies to any of my posts. Hopefully that’s the end of it.

Lets get back on topic!"

Is there anything wrong here? Am I being uncivil? People continued posting about it so I replied again to try and end the discussion after one of them highlighted the fact that it wasn't the other poster that was the issue, rather how the whole thing was handled by the Forum Moderator.

"Yeah as per the other thread, its not Lemlin that is the issue. Anyway, enough said on it. Back on topic."

Is this being uncivil? If so, in what way? Uncivil to who? The whole issue I had was with the mod, not the poster. This was clear from the title of the Dispute thread. What is wrong with agreeing with this when another poster mentions it? I haven't insulted the mod, I haven't discussed the decision. I haven't dragged the thread OT. If anything I'm trying to do the opposite. How am I being uncivil? I'm assuming it's not the actual post, but the fact the moderator has an issue with me and the fact I posted a thread here in the first place. I specifically stated I didn't want to discuss the moderating decision, and in both posts asked people to stop discussing it and get back on topic.

Judging by some of the replies on that thread its clear I'm not the only one that thinks they are walking on ice posting there. Unfortunately its clear the mod has an issue with me so I can't post in the forum anymore. Rather than simply side with the mod, I would prefer if you actually considered this case on its merits. A poster of almost 10 years with close to 10k posts, banned for 2 weeks for a post with no personal insults. And now banned for a month because the mod has a personal issue with me.

Also, to answer the posters in that thread, there's been nothing else gone on in PM's. What you have seen has been exactly whats happened.

Cheers

Myrddin

Hi roryc,

I'll look at this later on today. Can you confirm if you've contacted the banning mod via pm first, as per the diagram above?

Cheers
Myrddin

roryc

I sent him a PM as per above.

roryc

Also just to add - he has since posted twice to attempt to justify his actions;

"What I will say is that a number of people are making judgements based on one side of a dispute. I cannot get involved in a dispute and I cannot have my say. If I could, then people may have a different understanding."

Followed by this, when another poster has said he won't be posting any more because of FG's actions;

"If you don't want to post here because you are reading one half of a story, then absolutely no problem."

I have no idea what he is referring to here but if he has something else he wants to get off his chest go right ahead. As I said above there hasn't been anything in PM's or otherwise to justify him swinging the ban hammer like a drunken child...

Myrddin

roryc wrote: »

swinging the ban hammer like a drunken child...

That's really not a great way to get the rolling on your appeal roryc.

roryc

Myrddin wrote: »

That's really not a great way to get the rolling on your appeal roryc.

Fair point. Although he has insulted me via PM in the past on top of the recent heavy handed bans so I hardly think its unwarranted.

To elaborate a bit more on the above - I didn’t initiate any discussion (outside of the Helpdesk) on the original ban. I merely confirmed that we had been on a 2 week break from the forum and as per the Dispute Resolution THREAD TITLE that it wasn’t due to Lemlin. This is not new information and FG had already allowed the Dispute thread to be linked so in what way am I being ‘uncivil’ by confirming information that is already on the thread? I saw no point in discussing the ban or the Dispute thread, and I didn’t discuss either. The Dispute thread has over 2,000 views, people can make up their own mind as to whether they thought the original ban (and upholding) was fair. Either way it shouldn’t be discussed outside of Helpdesk.

If Futureguy allows it to be linked in FSA then is he not breaching the charter? In both posts I asked people to get back on topic. I didn’t have a dig at either Lemlin or FG. I do have a few questions though, would appreciate if you could answer them as a couple of key questions from the original dispute thread were ignored;

• Why did FG allow a link to the Dispute Resolution thread to be posted in the FSA forum?
• Why did he allow other posters to discuss it for over a week without making a moderator comment to not discuss it?
• As per the forum charter “Straying off topic wil result in post deletion”. Why were the posts not deleted a week ago? It has nothing to do with ‘Fantasy Football Chat’
• Why did he wait until I tried to end the discussion before coming steaming in with the ban hammer? Seems as if he was waiting for me to reply, in any form, with the sole intention of banning me if I did. Are these the actions of a good moderator? He is clearly taking it personally that I created the original dispute thread questioning his modding.
• Why has he only given a warning to one poster on the thread when numerous people have breached the charter by discussing the bans? I’m not asking for more warnings to be handed out but it does highlight his inconsistency again.
• Why is he alluding to not being able to tell ‘his side of the story’ – what is there to tell? We’re all listening Tony, speak up.

If a moderator is driving regular posters away then the situation needs to be looked at. I’m clearly not the only one that has an issue with his heavy handed modding, and there are a number of other posters that would seem to be much better suited to the job. It should be one of the easiest Forums on Boards to moderate compared to the likes of Soccer and AH. There's no club tribalism and most posters actually like helping each other at the game. Granted I’ve had some issues with Lemlin but its pretty clear to anyone that I’ve been trying to avoid him since last year (for all the good that’s done me). I’ve no idea why FG feels the need to make consistently make himself the focus. He’s creating issues where there should be none. The forum practically moderates itself 99% of the time yet he still tries to make out like he’s abused by myself and others. If anything it’s the other way round, I’ve let him away with insulting me previously via PM and he’s now got an agenda to stop me posting on the forum. Is it one rule for posters and another for mods?

Also as I mentioned above I have no idea what he is referring to when he says he can’t tell ‘his side of the story’. Sounds like bullsh*t if I’m honest, trying to make out like there’s more to this than meets the eye. There’s not. There have been no discussions on this issue between myself and FG over PM or any other contact outside of what everyone can see so I’d like to know what he is alluding to that would justify the heavy handed bans he has issued me throughout the course of this year. How can I continue to post on a forum where the moderator has such a major issue with me?

Myrddin

Hi roryc,

Firstly, apologies that this review has taken me the whole day to get back, I've been a bit busier than expected today. Ok, to business. Rory, you're literally just back from a two week forum ban...you really, really shouldn't be back in the Dispute Resolution Forum at this stage. To address your points:

roryc wrote:

The original ban I was disputing ended on Friday. I logged in and saw some of the other posters were discussing the fact that we hadn't been posting, and one of them (not me) posted a link to the Dispute Resolution thread. I responded with the below message to hopefully stop people talking about it and get back on topic.

"Yep, was on a little two week break! Don’t want to drag this thread OT discussing moderating decisions as it will result in another ban. Unsure if I’ll post as much on the forum anymore but at least the thread above has clarified that the other poster will receive a ban if he replies to any of my posts. Hopefully that’s the end of it.

Lets get back on topic!"

Is there anything wrong here? Am I being uncivil?

Firstly, as I'm sure you're well aware by now after being a boards user for as long as you are, discussing moderator actions on thread is a big no no. Any issues with moderation should firstly be addressed to the mod themselves in private. Failing that, there is normally a second (or more) mods of the forum, followed by Cmods too. Discussing moderator actions on thread is wildly off topic, & unfair on everyone else who has to sift through it. Yes it's a general chat thread in this case, but general chat doesn't extend to this level of off topic discussion. Again, that's a private matter, to be treated as such.

If you wanted to stop people from discussing it, reporting the posts is the correct manner. By engaging in that line of discussion, you're opening yourself up for action.

roryc wrote:

People continued posting about it so I replied again to try and end the discussion after one of them highlighted the fact that it wasn't the other poster that was the issue, rather how the whole thing was handled by the Forum Moderator.

"Yeah as per the other thread, its not Lemlin that is the issue. Anyway, enough said on it. Back on topic."

Had you reported these posts, instead of joining in roryc, you'd have been in the clear & I'm sure FutureGuy would have cut the conversation down anyway. The part in inverted commas above, is quite blatantly a dig at FutureGuy in my opinion. So at this stage, not only are you continuing on a line of discussion that's against the rules, but you're now also underhandedly getting a dig in at the person you hold responsible for your ban. This is completely unacceptable rory, for obvious reasons. It's not a line of discussion for public debate, you need to discuss your issue with FutureGuy directly, escalating it to his co-mod, and/or the Cmods in private if necessary. There are plenty of impartial ears available to you to try & resolve matters like this...but getting digs in in public is only going to leave you open to further action.

roryc wrote:

Is this being uncivil? If so, in what way? Uncivil to who? The whole issue I had was with the mod, not the poster. This was clear from the title of the Dispute thread. What is wrong with agreeing with this when another poster mentions it? I haven't insulted the mod, I haven't discussed the decision. I haven't dragged the thread OT. If anything I'm trying to do the opposite. How am I being uncivil? I'm assuming it's not the actual post, but the fact the moderator has an issue with me and the fact I posted a thread here in the first place. I specifically stated I didn't want to discuss the moderating decision, and in both posts asked people to stop discussing it and get back on topic.

Are you getting the 'uncivil' description from the banning pm? There is a finite list of reasons a mod has to choose from when issuing a ban, which then generates the pm informing the user of the ban. Sometimes there are several reasons for a ban, but only one actual reason can be chosen. Sometimes the grey area nature of a ban might not have an exact descriptor, & uncivil might have seemed the best choice. Also, you did actually insult the someone (the mod in this case), by using an underhanded comment, so that can/will be taken into account.

You stated you didn't want to talk about the moderators actions, yet you've done as much in two separate posts. There is zero tolerance for this line of discussion within a forum (outside of Feedback). Again, you should have reported the posts that were discussing it, & not joined in. You say the moderator has an issue with you, yet in fact FutureGuy has publicly stated on the thread itself you're one of the best contributors to the forum. Doesn't sound like there's any issue to me...but rather, I think the issue is your ability to know when to bite your tongue.

For example, throughout your boards history of 12 warnings, 4 infractions, 9 forum bans, & 1 site ban...FutureGuy is but one of 12 mods who have actioned you one way or another. One of 12, let's just let that sink in for a moment. It seems to me roryc, that moderators aren't the ones with the issue...but rather the issue is your ability to participate within a set of rules. FutureGuy has no issue with you, lets just get that straight.

roryc wrote:

Judging by some of the replies on that thread its clear I'm not the only one that thinks they are walking on ice posting there. Unfortunately its clear the mod has an issue with me so I can't post in the forum anymore. Rather than simply side with the mod, I would prefer if you actually considered this case on its merits. A poster of almost 10 years with close to 10k posts, banned for 2 weeks for a post with no personal insults. And now banned for a month because the mod has a personal issue with me.

Anyone discussing moderator actions, in any forum, is walking on thin ice. FutureGuy is not a mod who is heavy handed, in fact (& I'm certain I've told you this before in another DRP) that if anything, he's been extremely lenient with you. What I can tell you, is that if I were modding the FSA, after the amount of trouble that has been caused there (it takes a long time to review a DRP case, talk to everyone involved, read all the posts, look at all factors, mod time, cmod time, admin time), I'd have handed out long bans a long time ago. It's just not on, & most people will agree, it's not that hard to abide by the rules, really it isn't. There's no excuse for popping up on the radar this often.

You are completely free to post in the FSA when your ban is up, should you feel you are able to post within the rules like the vast majority of the sites users do. By all accounts, you are an excellent contributor, & that has been taken into account. But it doesn't pave the way for expecting different treatment rory. Stick within the rules, & you'll have no more issues. I have also considered this case on its own merits, but it hasn't changed my opinion of things.

I'm upholding FutureGuys ban, & at that, you're extremely luck it's not a permanent forum ban. I can't stress this enough roryc, you're on seriously, seriously thin ice. Familiarize yourself with the site rules, & the FSA charter should you wish to return to posting there after your ban rory. Know when to engage in threads & when not to, when to report posts etc. You may of course request an Admin to review this too.

Myrddin

Just to address your further points:

roryc wrote: »

I merely confirmed that we had been on a 2 week break from the forum and as per the Dispute Resolution THREAD TITLE that it wasn’t due to Lemlin.

Sounds off topic to me roryc, why feel the need to comment on it at all, it's a private matter.

I saw no point in discussing the ban or the Dispute thread, and I didn’t discuss either. The Dispute thread has over 2,000 views, people can make up their own mind as to whether they thought the original ban (and upholding) was fair. Either way it shouldn’t be discussed outside of Helpdesk.

Yet you felt the need to post about it, twice, & underhandedly have a dig at the banning mod too. Again, unacceptable rory. Not everyone has the full facts, or the full truth, so anyone making their mind up purely off what they can see in a DRP thread will be missing some important pieces of information...I wouldn't overly concern myself what other people thing anyway. This is your DRP, not a soapbox.

If Futureguy allows it to be linked in FSA then is he not breaching the charter? In both posts I asked people to get back on topic. I didn’t have a dig at either Lemlin or FG. I do have a few questions though, would appreciate if you could answer them as a couple of key questions from the original dispute thread were ignored;

• Why did FG allow a link to the Dispute Resolution thread to be posted in the FSA forum?
• Why did he allow other posters to discuss it for over a week without making a moderator comment to not discuss it?
• As per the forum charter “Straying off topic wil result in post deletion”. Why were the posts not deleted a week ago? It has nothing to do with ‘Fantasy Football Chat’
• Why did he wait until I tried to end the discussion before coming steaming in with the ban hammer? Seems as if he was waiting for me to reply, in any form, with the sole intention of banning me if I did. Are these the actions of a good moderator? He is clearly taking it personally that I created the original dispute thread questioning his modding.
• Why has he only given a warning to one poster on the thread when numerous people have breached the charter by discussing the bans? I’m not asking for more warnings to be handed out but it does highlight his inconsistency again.
• Why is he alluding to not being able to tell ‘his side of the story’ – what is there to tell? We’re all listening Tony, speak up.

None of this, has anything to do with this appeal. The DRF concerns your conduct & yours only. If you wish to know more about FutureGuys' policy/decisions, contact him directly rory.

If a moderator is driving regular posters away then the situation needs to be looked at. I’m clearly not the only one that has an issue with his heavy handed modding, and there are a number of other posters that would seem to be much better suited to the job. It should be one of the easiest Forums on Boards to moderate compared to the likes of Soccer and AH. There's no club tribalism and most posters actually like helping each other at the game. Granted I’ve had some issues with Lemlin but its pretty clear to anyone that I’ve been trying to avoid him since last year (for all the good that’s done me). I’ve no idea why FG feels the need to make consistently make himself the focus. He’s creating issues where there should be none. The forum practically moderates itself 99% of the time yet he still tries to make out like he’s abused by myself and others. If anything it’s the other way round, I’ve let him away with insulting me previously via PM and he’s now got an agenda to stop me posting on the forum. Is it one rule for posters and another for mods?

Again all irrelevant to this DRP case. And for the record, you know full well FutureGuy has tried his utmost to resolve the issues with you, via pm. Don't try & paint a picture here about FutureGuy, I can see for myself, such a picture would be wildly inaccurate.

Also as I mentioned above I have no idea what he is referring to when he says he can’t tell ‘his side of the story’. Sounds like bullsh*t if I’m honest, trying to make out like there’s more to this than meets the eye. There’s not. There have been no discussions on this issue between myself and FG over PM or any other contact outside of what everyone can see so I’d like to know what he is alluding to that would justify the heavy handed bans he has issued me throughout the course of this year. How can I continue to post on a forum where the moderator has such a major issue with me?

Are you sure there has been no contact via pm? Really sure? FutureGuy won't discuss it in public because he knows how to operate within the rules. A mod getting involved in such a thread will only place a seal of approval on an already rule breaking thread. I commend FutureGuy for not derailing it any further, & again he has shown a lot of restraint when people continued to discuss it even after his on thread warnings. One yellow was given out in that whole exchange, doesn't sounds like a trigger happy mod to me rory.

So, as above, the issue here is you rory, not FutureGuy. Decision upheld. You can request an Admin review if you so wish.

roryc

Myrddin wrote: »

Hi roryc,

Firstly, apologies that this review has taken me the whole day to get back, I've been a bit busier than expected today. Ok, to business. Rory, you're literally just back from a two week forum ban...you really, really shouldn't be back in the Dispute Resolution Forum at this stage.

I understand it's not a short process, and despite what you may think I do appreciate it. As for the fact that I shouldn't be back here at this stage I totally agree. I wouldn't waste my time writing a DR thread if I didn't think the situation warranted one. I think I can count on one hand the number of DR threads I've created in almost a decade on Boards.

Myrddin wrote: »

Firstly, as I'm sure you're well aware by now after being a boards user for as long as you are, discussing moderator actions on thread is a big no no. Any issues with moderation should firstly be addressed to the mod themselves in private. Failing that, there is normally a second (or more) mods of the forum, followed by Cmods too. Discussing moderator actions on thread is wildly off topic, & unfair on everyone else who has to sift through it. Yes it's a general chat thread in this case, but general chat doesn't extend to this level of off topic discussion. Again, that's a private matter, to be treated as such.

If you wanted to stop people from discussing it, reporting the posts is the correct manner. By engaging in that line of discussion, you're opening yourself up for action.

Yes I'm aware discussing mods actions on a thread is a big no no. It's the main reason I didn't do it. I did not 'join in' - I confirmed I got a ban and confirmed it was for the reason the poster stated. I tried to end the discussion on it (twice) as for some reason (which you have not answered above) Futureguy failed to do anything for a week until I posted. If discussing moderator actions is such a serious breach of the rules, why did FG allow the DR thread to be posted?

Myrddin wrote: »

Had you reported these posts, instead of joining in roryc, you'd have been in the clear & I'm sure FutureGuy would have cut the conversation down anyway.

I shouldn't need to report the posts, if he was as quick to moderate the forum as he is to give me a ban the posts would have been deleted last week. Do you agree that he should have deleted the posts? They are off-topic and against the Charter, and the fact that they remained there for almost a week but imply that he was 100% not planning on 'cutting the conversation down'. The forum is small, there is absolutely no chance FG did not see the posts, it would be absurd to claim as much.

Myrddin wrote: »

The part in inverted commas above, is quite blatantly a dig at FutureGuy in my opinion. So at this stage, not only are you continuing on a line of discussion that's against the rules, but you're now also underhandedly getting a dig in at the person you hold responsible for your ban. This is completely unacceptable rory, for obvious reasons.

I have to disagree that its is 'quite blatantly a dig' - I'm simply stating that I got a ban, and it was due to an issue I have with Futureguy. How is this a dig? The thread title was 'Issue with Ban/Moderator' and it was linked to from the FSA thread. What exactly is the 'dig' here when I am simply confirming what posters already posted on the thread?

Myrddin wrote: »

It's not a line of discussion for public debate, you need to discuss your issue with FutureGuy directly, escalating it to his co-mod, and/or the Cmods in private if necessary. There are plenty of impartial ears available to you to try & resolve matters like this...but getting digs in in public is only going to leave you open to further action.

How do I discuss the issue when the mod himself is the issue? Also, he has previously sent me a PM saying "I'm not entertaining any more PMs relating to the moderation of the forum" - this is after insulting me in the same PM. He has no interest in having any discussion on it. How do I go about escalating this, and is there even any point? I can hardly see you removing a cmod regardless of how many posters decide to leave the forum because of him.

Myrddin wrote: »

Are you getting the 'uncivil' description from the banning pm? There is a finite list of reasons a mod has to choose from when issuing a ban, which then generates the pm informing the user of the ban. Sometimes there are several reasons for a ban, but only one actual reason can be chosen. Sometimes the grey area nature of a ban might not have an exact descriptor, & uncivil might have seemed the best choice. Also, you did actually insult the someone (the mod in this case), by using an underhanded comment, so that can/will be taken into account.

Yes, it was from the description. Again I have to disagree that I insulted him. I confirmed I got a ban, and that it was because I have an issue with the moderator, something which was obvious from the thread that was linked to (and indirectly condoned by non-action from FG). I understand you naturally side with the mod here but I really think you would find it difficult to get many forum posters to agree with you guys on this one. It was not a dig. Read the reactions of some other posters before FG started handing out warnings to them too. This ban was extremely harsh, their words, not mine.

Myrddin wrote: »

You stated you didn't want to talk about the moderators actions, yet you've done as much in two separate posts. There is zero tolerance for this line of discussion within a forum (outside of Feedback).

Totally agree, there should be zero tolerance. So again I will ask - why were the posts not deleted? I think it's important to be as clear as possible on this, as for me this is black and white - other posters are allowed post a link to my DR thread and/or discuss my ban, but I am not allowed post anything, even if it is simply to agree with them on facts. Correct?

Myrddin wrote: »

Again, you should have reported the posts that were discussing it, & not joined in. You say the moderator has an issue with you, yet in fact FutureGuy has publicly stated on the thread itself you're one of the best contributors to the forum. Doesn't sound like there's any issue to me...but rather, I think the issue is your ability to know when to bite your tongue.

The fact that he says I'm on of the best posters means nothing if I'm honest. His actions are pretty clearly saying that he wants me off the forum. He could have handled the situation a number of ways - warned people last week not to link to DR threads. Warned them not to discuss moderating decisions etc. Instead he waited until my ban was up, knowing I was likely to post something, and he was ready with a month ban. And now my posts are being twisted to look like I instigated this whole thing, and 'insulted' him. It really is a weak argument, I'm clearly trying to end the discussion and get the thread back on topic, something that FG evidently was not too bothered about.

Myrddin wrote: »

For example, throughout your boards history of 12 warnings, 4 infractions, 9 forum bans, & 1 site ban...FutureGuy is but one of 12 mods who have actioned you one way or another. One of 12, let's just let that sink in for a moment. It seems to me roryc, that moderators aren't the ones with the issue...but rather the issue is your ability to participate within a set of rules.

In almost 10 years. I used to post on the Soccer Forum but it got pretty frustrating with the club loyalties etc so I stopped posting there. I would imagine 90-95% of my infractions relate to either the Soccer Forum (from a long time ago) or relating to Lemlin/Carlcon on FSA. Correct? I don't see much wrong with the above if I'm honest - if I was such a hassle I wouldn't have lasted on Boards that long. I don't have an issue with 'moderators' and usually accept any infractions as they are warranted. These recent ones are incredibly harsh, and despite what you say above seem to be of a personal nature.

Myrddin wrote: »

FutureGuy has no issue with you, lets just get that straight.

I think its clear this simply isn't the case, but it's a pointless discussion. As I have said above everything is out in the open, there is no 'other side of the story' here. The posters of the forum can look at my posts and his actions and make their own mind up as to whether he has an issue with me or not. If anything his PM's to me this year only back up my case. He does have an issue with me, he doesn't even seem to bothered about hiding it.

Myrddin wrote: »

Anyone discussing moderator actions, in any forum, is walking on thin ice. FutureGuy is not a mod who is heavy handed, in fact (& I'm certain I've told you this before in another DRP) that if anything, he's been extremely lenient with you.

Lenient? I would appreciate if you could back this up by posting up every ban I have received this year, and the reasons behind it. I've replied to Lemlin 3 times (once by accident), none of which contained a trace of abuse, and have been banned three times for these. And now a month ban for trying to end a discussion on my previous ban that should have been deleted by the mod. This is lenient? Really? So what exactly constitutes harsh? A perma-ban for a spelling mistake? I'm serious here, I have no idea how this can be considered lenient and in the interest of transparency I'm happy for you to post everything from this year. All bans, all PM's, the lot.

Myrddin wrote: »

What I can tell you, is that if I were modding the FSA, after the amount of trouble that has been caused there (it takes a long time to review a DRP case, talk to everyone involved, read all the posts, look at all factors, mod time, cmod time, admin time), I'd have handed out long bans a long time ago. It's just not on, & most people will agree, it's not that hard to abide by the rules, really it isn't. There's no excuse for popping up on the radar this often.

I agree the argument between myself and Lemlin has been pathetic, which is why have tried to avoid it since about midway through last year. This is despite him replying to my posts on a daily/weekly basis, which FG allowed him to do. Its a small community and most of us would post there every day, so believe me when I say replying to him three times this year is next to nothing. And I'll say it again, none contained any abuse. Please review my conduct this year and tell me that you honestly think my conduct deserved the volume and length of bans I've received.

Myrddin wrote: »

You are completely free to post in the FSA when your ban is up, should you feel you are able to post within the rules like the vast majority of the sites users do. By all accounts, you are an excellent contributor, & that has been taken into account. But it doesn't pave the way for expecting different treatment rory. Stick within the rules, & you'll have no more issues. I have also considered this case on its own merits, but it hasn't changed my opinion of things.

Different treatment? I am treated worse than any other poster on that forum, as proven when I have now received a month ban for commenting on my own DR thread while everyone else was free to do so. I don't expect different treatment at all. Equal treatment would be a blessing!

Myrddin wrote: »

I'm upholding FutureGuys ban, & at that, you're extremely luck it's not a permanent forum ban. I can't stress this enough roryc, you're on seriously, seriously thin ice. Familiarize yourself with the site rules, & the FSA charter should you wish to return to posting there after your ban rory. Know when to engage in threads & when not to, when to report posts etc. You may of course request an Admin to review this too.

I understand I am on thin ice, and I am very familiar with the site rules and the FSA Charter. Although the application of these rules is clearly debatable. In my mind the Charter has definitely been broken. By Futureguy. He shouldn't have allowed the posts to remain if he wasn't allowing discussion on it (from all posters, myself included). As for site rules, I'm aware that moderating decisions should not be discussed, which is why I didn't discuss them. And if you want to stretch this to say that any comment could be considered 'discussing moderation' then why hasn't everyone that commented on it received a ban? And again, why was it even left open (for a week) to comment on in the first place? You cannot simply pick out my comments and ban me for a month, yet ignore all other posts on the topic and at the same time ignore the Mods failure to delete the posts in the first place.

Due to FG having a separate set of rules for me I'm unsure how I can post there anymore. I don't think there's any need to go to an Admin just yet as I don't think any questions in my original questions above were answered. I would really appreciate if these aren't ignored.


• Why did FG allow a link to the Dispute Resolution thread to be posted in the FSA forum?
• Why did he allow other posters to discuss it for over a week without making a moderator comment to not discuss it?
• As per the forum charter “Straying off topic wil result in post deletion”. Why were the posts not deleted a week ago? It has nothing to do with ‘Fantasy Football Chat’
• Why did he wait until I tried to end the discussion before coming steaming in with the ban hammer? Seems as if he was waiting for me to reply, in any form, with the sole intention of banning me if I did. Are these the actions of a good moderator? He is clearly taking it personally that I created the original dispute thread questioning his modding.
• Why has he only given a warning to one poster on the thread when numerous people have breached the charter by discussing the bans? I’m not asking for more warnings to be handed out but it does highlight his inconsistency again.
• Why is he alluding to not being able to tell ‘his side of the story’ – what is there to tell? We’re all listening Tony, speak up.

I'm especially interested in hearing the last bullet point answered. Is there any reason why FG cannot post here? I have no objection to it, and he cant post every single PM I have ever sent him if he so wishes. I think its unfair for him to insinuate there is more going on behind the scenes when it simply isn't the case.

roryc

Myrddin wrote: »

Don't try & paint a picture here about FutureGuy, I can see for myself, such a picture would be wildly inaccurate.

I'm not trying to paint any picture. I'm happy to have all the facts here out in the open, and have FG comment if he wishes. What is the problem with this? If he hasn't got an issue with me then why insinuate there is more to this story but then refuse to elaborate?

Myrddin wrote: »

Are you sure there has been no contact via pm? Really sure? FutureGuy won't discuss it in public because he knows how to operate within the rules. A mod getting involved in such a thread will only place a seal of approval on an already rule breaking thread. I commend FutureGuy for not derailing it any further, & again he has shown a lot of restraint when people continued to discuss it even after his on thread warnings. One yellow was given out in that whole exchange, doesn't sounds like a trigger happy mod to me rory.

So, as above, the issue here is you rory, not FutureGuy. Decision upheld. You can request an Admin review if you so wish.

One yellow was given out. And one month ban. So yes, the phrase 'trigger happy' comes to mind. He could have deleted the posts before my ban was up. He chose not to. He could have continued to stay out of the thread and there would have been no more posts on the topic. He chose not to.

You guys have totally lost me on the PM's. I've just re-read every PM I have between myself and FG this year and have no idea what he is referring to. If you are not happy to post it here then could you tell me via PM as you guys have confused me. I've already said I'm happy for them to be posted here?

roryc

One final thing - if the DRF isn't the place to discuss moderator actions, and the moderator has already said he won't discuss them with me directly, then what other options are left? I would have assume a dispute with a moderator would need to be discussed here?

Myrddin

Hi roryc,

I wasn't going to turn this into a quote-fest, & was instead going to simplify this DRP down. However, to make this as clear as day (and so there is no doubt left), I'm going to spell out things for you, & address your further points.

roryc wrote: »

Yes I'm aware discussing mods actions on a thread is a big no no. It's the main reason I didn't do it. I did not 'join in' - I confirmed I got a ban and confirmed it was for the reason the poster stated. I tried to end the discussion on it (twice) as for some reason (which you have not answered above)

You do realise you are completely contradicting yourself here rory? You're stating you didn't join in the discussion, all you did was talk about your ban. For the record, this is joining in the discussion. There is no debate about that, & no amount of wrangling changes the facts. You did engage in a line of discussion that was off topic, & against the rules. You also indicated it was due to an on going issue between yourself & the forum moderator. So again, yes, you did in deed join in.

roryc wrote:

FutureGuy failed to do anything for a week until I posted. If discussing moderator actions is such a serious breach of the rules, why did FG allow the DR thread to be posted?

This has nothing at all to do with the fact that you discussed moderator actions on-thread. I won't be commenting on any other users conduct/moderation in this DRP. This is your DFP rory, nobody elses. I will discuss your conduct, & that's where it ends. If you wish to discuss moderator actions, you do so privately as I advised above. This can be with the forum mod, a co-mod, & failing those, you can pm a Cmod to discuss these feedback related matters. This is the dispute resolution forum, created to deal with infraction/ban disputes...not moderation feedback.

I shouldn't need to report the posts,

I disagree. Had you reported the posts & stated "This line of discussion related to my expired ban, is wildly off topic & I feel if I get involved to explain, it will drag the thread further off topic. I'd like if these posts could be removed in order to retain the integrity of the thread please", I very much doubt we would be having this conversation today. You do need to report posts rory, just like every other user, mod, cmod & admin on the site does if they feel the posts are problematic.

if he was as quick to moderate the forum as he is to give me a ban the posts would have been deleted last week. Do you agree that he should have deleted the posts? They are off-topic and against the Charter, and the fact that they remained there for almost a week but imply that he was 100% not planning on 'cutting the conversation down'. The forum is small, there is absolutely no chance FG did not see the posts, it would be absurd to claim as much.

Had you reported the posts rory, you might have a point. The fact is you didn't, & in fact, nobody did. So unless BOTH forum mods read every single post in every single thread, without user reports (which are hugely helpful in the running of a forum) it is quite inevitable that things will be missed. Not to mention people have lives outside of their volunteering duties as mods of the site, you cannot expect mods to be ever present & omnipotent. The fact is, you chose to engage in a line of discussion that eventually cracked the thin ice you were already on, as opposed to doing things the correct way, taking the high road & reporting the problem. This is not as a result of over zealous modding, but your own decision to pursue the discussion, over the removal of it.

I have to disagree that its is 'quite blatantly a dig' - I'm simply stating that I got a ban, and it was due to an issue I have with Futureguy. How is this a dig? The thread title was 'Issue with Ban/Moderator' and it was linked to from the FSA thread. What exactly is the 'dig' here when I am simply confirming what posters already posted on the thread?

It is indeed an underhanded dig at FutureGuy, as are no doubt well aware roryc. You pointed the blame at the person tasked with the smooth running of the forum, & looked to completely absolve yourself of any blame. The simple truth is, your own inability to contribute to the forum from within the rules is what the problem is.

How do I discuss the issue when the mod himself is the issue? Also, he has previously sent me a PM saying "I'm not entertaining any more PMs relating to the moderation of the forum" - this is after insulting me in the same PM. He has no interest in having any discussion on it. How do I go about escalating this, and is there even any point? I can hardly see you removing a cmod regardless of how many posters decide to leave the forum because of him.

As I said above, you discuss private issues privately. FutureGuy, Mr Moon, Sierra Oscar, & myself are ALL available to listen to any feedback should a user wish to offer it. Failing those options, you can start a thread in the Feedback forum, where users can objectively address site policy, moderation, procedures etc. However, the Feedback forum isn't a place to air dirty laundry, it should be used correctly & everything said in it backed up with evidence & fact. The DRP is not the place for this, this is to resolve your dispute, nothing else.

Yes, it was from the description. Again I have to disagree that I insulted him. I confirmed I got a ban, and that it was because I have an issue with the moderator, something which was obvious from the thread that was linked to (and indirectly condoned by non-action from FG). I understand you naturally side with the mod here but I really think you would find it difficult to get many forum posters to agree with you guys on this one. It was not a dig. Read the reactions of some other posters before FG started handing out warnings to them too. This ban was extremely harsh, their words, not mine.

"Indirectly condoned by non-action from FutureGuy"? Again, had you have reported the posts you might have a case. You chose to engage on thread, & knowingly engage despite it being against the site rules/forum charter. Not only that, but you used it as an opportunity to direct the blame at FutureGuy too...you have no case here roryc. You were in the wrong, end of.

Totally agree, there should be zero tolerance. So again I will ask - why were the posts not deleted? I think it's important to be as clear as possible on this, as for me this is black and white - other posters are allowed post a link to my DR thread and/or discuss my ban, but I am not allowed post anything, even if it is simply to agree with them on facts. Correct?

Again, I will only comment on your conduct roryc. Other users behaviour is not up for discussion here. I've advised you how to privately discuss moderation issues/questions at this stage.

The fact that he says I'm on of the best posters means nothing if I'm honest.

Yes it does, it shows your cries of persecution/being a victim are unfounded. A moderator that you claim has a personal issue with you, has instead come out & happily admitted what a good contributor you are to the forum. Your own inability to stay within the rules, has led to where you are now...not a personal grudge against you.

His actions are pretty clearly saying that he wants me off the forum.

No he doesn't, & FutureGuy has told me as much. What he won't deny is becoming tired of dealing with the headaches, & trouble that seem to surround you. You are coming up on the radar way too often now roryc, you seem to have no respect for the volunteer status of moderators, no respect for posting within the rules/guidelines, & are seemingly oblivious to other peoples perspective of your own behavior. That's something you will need to change, should you wish to return posting in the FSA, & to remain on boards as a whole.

He could have handled the situation a number of ways - warned people last week not to link to DR threads. Warned them not to discuss moderating decisions etc. Instead he waited until my ban was up, knowing I was likely to post something, and he was ready with a month ban. And now my posts are being twisted to look like I instigated this whole thing, and 'insulted' him. It really is a weak argument, I'm clearly trying to end the discussion and get the thread back on topic, something that FG evidently was not too bothered about.

Did you make FutureGuy aware of the off topic discussion? No, you didn't.
Did you make him aware that there was a DRP linked to? No, you didn't.
Were there warnings not to discuss decision? Yes. Yes. and Yes.
Your posts are not being twisted at all, but there is more to it that what you are making out there is.
You did 'insult' FutureGuy in my opinion, by directing the blame at him rather than yourself it is very much insulting. Had you done it to another user, I'd see it in the same light too.
You can't end a discussion in the forum rory, you're not a mod. How a user ends a discussion, is by not taking part in it & reporting it with a valid reason for a mod to close it.

roryc wrote:

I think its clear this simply isn't the case, but it's a pointless discussion. As I have said above everything is out in the open, there is no 'other side of the story' here. The posters of the forum can look at my posts and his actions and make their own mind up as to whether he has an issue with me or not. If anything his PM's to me this year only back up my case. He does have an issue with me, he doesn't even seem to bothered about hiding it.

Yes there is another side of the story here, very much so. In the case of this DRP, you get to paint a picture. By looking at a fair amount of information, & talking directly to FutureGuy, the picture you paint certainly starts to blur roryc.

Lenient? I would appreciate if you could back this up by posting up every ban I have received this year, and the reasons behind it.

FutureGuy has been lenient with you, of that I can assure you. If I were modding the FSA, you would have a lot more actions against you. I operate on a warning, infraction, & ban basis (in that order where possible). A user of your experience & history, should know a lot better, & if it were me, the very least you would be getting for causing trouble would be infractions, & likely bans. So yes, compared to me, FutureGuy has been extremely lenient towards you. I will not be posting all your bans from this year along with reasons, frankly because I don't see the point in spending the time to do it. It's irrelevant.

I've replied to Lemlin 3 times (once by accident), none of which contained a trace of abuse, and have been banned three times for these.

That's on the back of a blanket ban of you interacting with said user. The amount of trouble caused in the past by this is frankly absurd. Yet you continued to do it, by your own admission above. Most people would have used the ignore feature, or maybe stopped engaging after the first ban...but you go & do it three times & attempt to use that as a demonstration of mod abuse? Nope, not today rory. Again, your own fault.

roryc wrote:

And now a month ban for trying to end a discussion on my previous ban that should have been deleted by the mod. This is lenient? Really?

Someone in your position really should know better rory. Frankly, you've forfeited the courtesy of being warned or infracted at this stage. Personally, I'd probably have permabanned you from the forum...not for this latest round of trouble, but more so the straw that broke the camels back as it were.

So what exactly constitutes harsh? A perma-ban for a spelling mistake? I'm serious here, I have no idea how this can be considered lenient and in the interest of transparency I'm happy for you to post everything from this year. All bans, all PM's, the lot.

As above. You've caused far, far too much work over the last while to cry victim here. You are not the victim here rory.

roryc wrote:

I agree the argument between myself and Lemlin has been pathetic, which is why have tried to avoid it since about midway through last year. This is despite him replying to my posts on a daily/weekly basis, which FG allowed him to do. Its a small community and most of us would post there every day, so believe me when I say replying to him three times this year is next to nothing. And I'll say it again, none contained any abuse. Please review my conduct this year and tell me that you honestly think my conduct deserved the volume and length of bans I've received.

You don't need to personally abuse Lemlin to be forum banned, simply by interacting with him is enough. That's after a long, long, long time trying to get you two to post in a civil manner towards one another. It can't be done, you refuse to do it. So it's either blanket ban your interactions & thus retaining you both for the good of the forum and its users...or permanban both of you from the forum. Seems to me you got the better end of the deal...yet here we are again.

roryc wrote:

As for site rules, I'm aware that moderating decisions should not be discussed, which is why I didn't discuss them. And if you want to stretch this to say that any comment could be considered 'discussing moderation' then why hasn't everyone that commented on it received a ban? And again, why was it even left open (for a week) to comment on in the first place? You cannot simply pick out my comments and ban me for a month, yet ignore all other posts on the topic and at the same time ignore the Mods failure to delete the posts in the first place.

Not everyone has been warned this many times, & not everyone used the thread as a platform to point blame. Those (one other user) that did, very quickly made the point that they weren't aware of the full facts.

roryc wrote:

Due to FG having a separate set of rules for me I'm unsure how I can post there anymore. I don't think there's any need to go to an Admin just yet as I don't think any questions in my original questions above were answered. I would really appreciate if these aren't ignored.


• Why did FG allow a link to the Dispute Resolution thread to be posted in the FSA forum?
• Why did he allow other posters to discuss it for over a week without making a moderator comment to not discuss it?
• As per the forum charter “Straying off topic wil result in post deletion”. Why were the posts not deleted a week ago? It has nothing to do with ‘Fantasy Football Chat’
• Why did he wait until I tried to end the discussion before coming steaming in with the ban hammer? Seems as if he was waiting for me to reply, in any form, with the sole intention of banning me if I did. Are these the actions of a good moderator? He is clearly taking it personally that I created the original dispute thread questioning his modding.
• Why has he only given a warning to one poster on the thread when numerous people have breached the charter by discussing the bans? I’m not asking for more warnings to be handed out but it does highlight his inconsistency again.
• Why is he alluding to not being able to tell ‘his side of the story’ – what is there to tell? We’re all listening Tony, speak up.

I'm especially interested in hearing the last bullet point answered. Is there any reason why FG cannot post here? I have no objection to it, and he cant post every single PM I have ever sent him if he so wishes. I think its unfair for him to insinuate there is more going on behind the scenes when it simply isn't the case.

Again, all irrelevant to this forum. Regarding your last point, the banning mod isn't automatically invited to post in the DRF. That's just FutureGuy staying within the site rules, something you really need to begin echoing.

One yellow was given out. And one month ban. So yes, the phrase 'trigger happy' comes to mind. He could have deleted the posts before my ban was up. He chose not to. He could have continued to stay out of the thread and there would have been no more posts on the topic. He chose not to.

You have long since lost the courtesy of being warned rory. You're on boards a long time, have a lot of posts, have had your conduct called into question many many times, have been through the drf a few times now...you are not a new user unfamiliar with site rules.

roryc wrote: »

One final thing - if the DRF isn't the place to discuss moderator actions, and the moderator has already said he won't discuss them with me directly, then what other options are left? I would have assume a dispute with a moderator would need to be discussed here?

I've explained that above, several times now. Again, the decision stands. I won't be expending any more time on this dispute rory, as in my opinion, there's nothing to dispute. You simply need to learn how to contribute within the rules. As always, an Admin review is available if you so wish?

roryc

Hi,

I can see this is going nowhere unfortunately. It’s impossible to have any discussion on this if the Moderator is considered infallible and his actions cannot be discussed, even when they are inherently applicable to the ban in question. I understand you pointing me to the Feedback Forum, I may create a thread here and it won't be a place to 'air my dirty laundry'. I'll post my issues I have with the current moderating situation on FSA, backed by any relevant evidence and facts. A months ban is the least of my worries at the moment - I would prefer to have a six month ban and come back knowing the forum was being moderated correctly than go back in a month the way it is now. Its a great forum, and it has been built by the community. Surely they can contribute to feedback on how it is being moderated?

I assume other posters from the FSA forum can also post in the Feedback thread? I don't want to turn this into an area for everyone to attack FG but I think it's important that the focus here is not solely on me as its clear that a number of posters have issues with how the forum is being moderated. I ask this not because a few posters have highlighted how harsh my ban was, rather because of a PM I received earlier this afternoon from another regular poster which is a bit worrying if I'm honest. Suffice to say it throws a lot of what you have posted above into a lot of doubt. I would also like to give FG the chance to give 'his side of the story' as he has twice insinuated (as you have) that there is more to this that people don't know. I've reviewed all PM's between myself and FG from this year and there's nothing I would have an issue with being posted.

Thanks for taking the time out to reply, no need for an Admin review as my issue relates to the moderator, not the ban. I see no need to waste an Admins time on this, please close the thread.

Thanks,

Rory