Landlords market

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Hi guys just a quick one
At what point during the boom did the landlords market stop.
I remember reading and seeing houses and shared rooms going for feck all during the boom when everyone was buying, now that Im hearing so much of this "20000" houses etc needed will the market change and people will be able to afford to rent in dublin again?

I have to move in January and I just cant afford to stay in Dublin I would be looking at paying close to half my wage in rent alone without bills or food included its absolutley mad. I dont drive yet but hope to get a car in the next year so I can widen my options to commute but anywhere within an hour of dublin is crazy money and Im single on my own!!!!

Nomis21

In Kilbeggan, Co Westmeath there is a bus that takes commuters to Dublin and back for 40 Euro a week.

Other towns where you can rent a nice place for 100 Euro a week have similar transport arrangements. Do your research of bus companies to discover other possibilities.

The_Conductor

Up to and around 50% of disposable income- is rapidly becoming the norm- for anyone who wants to live in Dublin (owners- or those who are renting- the increase is not just confined to the rental market).

The 20,000 properties needed- are 20,000 per annum- not a single one-off block of 20,000.......

Its a mess- and the government (Jan O'Sullivan's) response thus far has been to setup a consultation process- aka to boot having to deal with it further down the road.........

Crusades

This is what happens when politicians type zeros into a computer in Frankfurt to pay for "bailouts" and other hair-brained projects. The Euro is not worth very much any more.

A generation ago, single-income blue collar families could afford a modest house, run a car and expect a decent pension.

Nowadays, even double-income couples (not many can afford kids) who work as professionals can't afford the same standard of living.

In 2014 a Garda's starting wage is €24k a year. You're lucky to be on €30k after 5 years' experience. You couldn't afford to rent a flat in Ballymun on that.

Of course none of this matters - you cannot do anything about these things. You've got to do whatever you have to do to get ahead. Nobody is going to give you a free gaff or look after you in retirement.

who_ru

NAMA recently sold 760 apts to a Canadian investment fund, AIB & BOI are rumoured to be preparing to put up to 1500 houses on the market soon, in which exact location I don't know, but the houses are for sale in bulk packages only, that is to investment funds only, Joe Public need not apply. As long as the Govt remains committed to favouring investors over FTB's then the situation will only deteriorate.

As for Jan O Sullivan, she has been moved to education, but hasn't a clue there either.

NAMA head honcho, McDonagh, was interviewed in the independent yesterday where he spoofed that there isn't enough profit to be had in Dublin to get developers building.

So we now have all vested interests and Govt working together to put forward the line that there isn't enough profit to start building (i.e. prices need to go higher) and there are massive housing shortages all over Dublin (i.e. prices will go higher).

You can see where this is going. Oh and the bank 'stress tests' are coming up in October.

dubrov

Crusades wrote: »

This is what happens when politicians type zeros into a computer in Frankfurt to pay for "bailouts" and other hair-brained projects. The Euro is not worth very much any more.

A generation ago, single-income blue collar families could afford a modest house, run a car and expect a decent pension.

Nowadays, even double-income couples (not many can afford kids) who work as professionals can't afford the same standard of living.

In 2014 a Garda's starting wage is €24k a year. You're lucky to be on €30k after 5 years' experience. You couldn't afford to rent a flat in Ballymun on that.

Of course none of this matters - you cannot do anything about these things. You've got to do whatever you have to do to get ahead. Nobody is going to give you a free gaff or look after you in retirement.

€30k is over €2k a month net income.
That is plenty to live on as a single person in Dublin.

TheBandicoot

Wouldn't say it is 'plenty', you could get by but your quality of living would be quite poor.

The_Conductor

dubrov wrote: »

€30k is over €2k a month net income.
That is plenty to live on as a single person in Dublin.

Since the post is talking about a Garda- if you plug the 30k into the tax calculator here: http://taxcalc.ie/budget-2014/

Specify that the Garda is a public sector employee.

NET pay is 23,681- 1,973 a month.

I know I'm being pedantic- but a single Garda, with a gross income of 30k, does not have a NET income of over 2k a month........

TheBandicoot

Also 5 years experience would put you in your late twenties, early thirties.. no one wants to be making that sort of money at that age, when they might be thinking of 'settling down' or whatever.

dubrov

Ok then. €1,973 (plus pension) is plenty to live on in Dublin with current rents.
Granted, you wouldn't have a lot of savings or a nice car but you could live in a nice area with decent spending money.
Anyone in there twenties would be fine.

If you are in your early thirties and only have 5 years experience then you've been living an easy life for too long.
5 years being a Garda with no promotion is closer to €35k on the new payscales anyway.

Sure, NAMA's meddling has increased rents in Dublin, but it appears that there are plenty of people with high enough salaries to support them.

ForEffsSake

NAMA recently sold 760 apts to a Canadian investment fund, AIB & BOI are rumoured to be preparing to put up to 1500 houses on the market soon, in which exact location I don't know, but the houses are for sale in bulk packages only, that is to investment funds only, Joe Public need not apply. As long as the Govt remains committed to favouring investors over FTB's then the situation will only deteriorate.

As someone who is looking to buy and renting currently, I think this is a great idea. We need more professional landlords in this country and not Joe Public investors who buy one or two 'investment properties' and then make crap landlords. This model of institutional landlords works really well in other countries and stabilises the rental market. Personally I think if you sort out the rental market, it will be more attractive to rent long term and people won't be obsessed with being a First Time Buyer and getting on the Property Ladder. And make no mistake, if these properties were sold individually, they wouldn't go to FTBs, they would go to Joe Public investors with a bit of cash.

I think policies that encourage reasonable rates of rent, and allow you to put a bit of money aside and then buy a home for life/long term when you really want to settle down, should be applauded and not lambasted.

A property can be a real barrier to mobility and (shock horror), not everyone wants to buy. But people are sick of rents being raised at the whim of their landlord (who's probably struggling with negative equity anyway and needs to raise it to cover their mortgage).

I can never believe those who compare our rents as being relatively cheap compared with New York/London etc. We are on the lower end of the scale as regards income per head of population and population density. The current prices are beyond ridiculous.

drumswan

dubrov wrote: »

Ok then. €1,973 (plus pension) is plenty to live on in Dublin with current rents.
Granted, you wouldn't have a lot of savings or a nice car but you could live in a nice area with decent spending money.

You know its about 1000-1400 for an apartment in Dublin yeah?

Crusades

dubrov wrote: »

Ok then. €1,973 (plus pension) is plenty to live on in Dublin with current rents.
Granted, you wouldn't have a lot of savings or a nice car but you could live in a nice area with decent spending money.
Anyone in there twenties would be fine.

If you are in your early thirties and only have 5 years experience then you've been living an easy life for too long.
5 years being a Garda with no promotion is closer to €35k on the new payscales anyway.

Sure, NAMA's meddling has increased rents in Dublin, but it appears that there are plenty of people with high enough salaries to support them.

5 years after entering Templemore, you're on €31,365. Most of these Gardai are graduates and many of them have volunteer reserve service under their belts.

Assuming said Garda has saved €15k, he/she could buy a flat for €157,000.

What "nice areas" were you thinking of? (bear in mind that for personal security reasons, Gardai can't just live in any old area)

As for driving a car (yes, you kinda need a reliable car to work as a Garda when you're on nights). What kind of a car were you thinking of?

So, if by the time you're 30, you want to buy for a flat like this (over 35 years):

daft.ie/sales/rathborne-drive-ashtown-dublin/977917/

And drive a car like this:

carzone.ie/search/Ford/Fiesta/STEEL-1./201438227178901/advert?channel=CARS

Join the Gards?

accensi0n

drumswan wrote: »

You know its about 1000-1400 for an apartment in Dublin yeah?

If you're single and 1 bed apartments are now too expensive for you, it would probably be a good idea to move to renting a room in a house share.

Crusades

accensi0n wrote: »

If you're single and 1 bed apartments are now too expensive for you, it would probably be a good idea to move to renting a room in a house share.

Do you think it's acceptable that a trained Garda with 4/5 years' experience who risks life and limb for his/her community is expected to flat share?

Irish society cannot provide the privacy and security of one's own home to front-line workers?

Something's not right when non-working families get to live for free in city centre townhouses, yet a front-line worker has to make huge sacrifices for years, work themselves up to a decent wage on the career ladder for the chance to be able to afford a similar lifestyle.

The_Conductor

accensi0n wrote: »

If you're single and 1 bed apartments are now too expensive for you, it would probably be a good idea to move to renting a room in a house share.

The point was- a Garda of 5-6 years, who may very well be a graduate- cannot afford to rent in Dublin- not that they should be in a houseshare somewhere...... For Garda- read teacher, nurse or any other public sector employee (most of whom are graduates- so its not unusual or unreasonable for them to be at this stage in their early 30s). Have a look over at the clerical officer thread over in the Work and Jobs forum- where over 28,000 people have applied to be put on a panel of perhaps 500-600 (and no guarantee of jobs). Those posts start at below 22,000- and only reach 30k after 14 years service......

Ordinary people- cannot afford to work and live in Dublin. Coming back with a flippant- 'Oh- you should be in a houseshare then'- is akin to Marie Antoinette and her 'Let them eat cake' comment, when she was advised her people had no bread........

That is the point that was being made.

Crusades

I should also point out that you won't get the max amount of a mortgage for a 1-bed flat. You will get 15% or 20% less compared to a 2-bed where the owner can rent out in the event hard times.

accensi0n

The_Conductor wrote: »

The point was- a Garda of 5-6 years, who may very well be a graduate- cannot afford to rent in Dublin- not that they should be in a houseshare somewhere...... For Garda- read teacher, nurse or any other public sector employee (most of whom are graduates- so its not unusual or unreasonable for them to be at this stage in their early 30s). Have a look over at the clerical officer thread over in the Work and Jobs forum- where over 28,000 people have applied to be put on a panel of perhaps 500-600 (and no guarantee of jobs). Those posts start at below 22,000- and only reach 30k after 14 years service......

Ordinary people- cannot afford to work and live in Dublin. Coming back with a flippant- 'Oh- you should be in a houseshare then'- is akin to Marie Antoinette and her 'Let them eat cake' comment, when she was advised her people had no bread........

That is the point that was being made.

Cool, I was more just pointing out that there's more that the '1 bed apartment' property type option, which could reduce your rental outgoings from ~50% to ~25%. My personal experience is that most people I know house-share, so I see it as the norm. I wasn't maliciously/condescendingly saying "P1ss off to a house-share since you're poor".

drumswan

accensi0n wrote: »

My personal experience is that most people I know house-share, so I see it as the norm.

Ive no problem with house sharing when you are a bit younger, but its not something we should expect graduates 4-5 years into their careers to be doing.

dubrov

Someone 4-5 years into their career is likely to be about 25.

coolemon

Immigration is an important factor here. One only has to take a walk around Dublin and see the quantities of foreign nationals here. All of whom require accommodation.

They are putting upward pressure on rents. Many are supported financially from outside the country, while many others are working illegitimately.

When your local shop worker is crammed into a bunk or sharing a bed on the South Circular Road - then that becomes the benchmark. To compete, and live, the Irish worker must share a bed or a bunk or live at home with their parents. Its a race to the bottom.

Wages going down, rents going up, standards of living going down and the profits of the landlords and employers going up.

So far the middle class have not received the brunt of an imported reserve pool of labour competing for their jobs. But the unskilled, semi-skilled and working class have been decimated and are unable to afford housing themselves.

There should be an immediate reduction in imported labour, given the housing crisis.

TheBandicoot

dubrov wrote: »

Someone 4-5 years into their career is likely to be about 25.

Not really, most people leaving college would be 23-24 at the earliest. As well, many engineering/science degrees are now 5 years long(they now include a masters program in the final year). Plus Transition Year in secondary skill.. you get my point.

Crusades

coolemon wrote: »

Immigration is an important factor here. One only has to take a walk around Dublin and see the quantities of foreign nationals here. All of whom require accommodation.

They are putting upward pressure on rents. Many are supported financially from outside the country, while many others are working illegitimately.

When your local shop worker is crammed into a bunk or sharing a bed on the South Circular Road - then that becomes the benchmark. To compete, and live, the Irish worker must share a bed or a bunk or live at home with their parents. Its a race to the bottom.

Wages going down, rents going up, standards of living going down and the profits of the landlords and employers going up.

So far the middle class have not received the brunt of an imported reserve pool of labour competing for their jobs. But the unskilled, semi-skilled and working class have been decimated and are unable to afford housing themselves.

There should be an immediate reduction in imported labour, given the housing crisis.

As members of the EU, we cannot have our own immigration policy. Romanians, Polish, Spanish have every right to come and work (and claim welfare). Non-EU refugee claimants is another matter.

Emigration is still high (many have benefited from being able to emigrate to London), yet the population is increasing.

The increased population are not buying homes - they are renting them (or getting them paid for with rent allowance).

In countries that have their own immigration policies (Australia, New Zealand, Canada, USA, UAE, etc.); they only allow in labour according to the demand. If there are too many IT workers, sorry; you can't come here at the moment. If there are too few nurses: please come here!

We as a small country (there's only 4 million odd of us in a world of 7 or 8 billion) have suffered terribly from unemployment in the 1980s and are suffering once again. We need to have a grown up debate on labour supply in a global world.

coolemon

Crusades wrote: »

As members of the EU, we cannot have our own immigration policy. Romanians, Polish, Spanish have every right to come and work (and claim welfare).

There are huge quantities of Brazilians, Indians, Pakistani's, Mauritians and so forth, who are not part of the EU. We can control immigration from these countries. Or, at least, prevent them from working here. We can crack down on sham colleges enrolling students for just that purpose. (Which has only happened here recently after a Panorama investigation "uncovered" the practice in England).

In addition there is not enough labour inspectors.

Emigration is still high (many have benefited from being able to emigrate to London), yet the population is increasing.

Most of those emigrating have low paid jobs. They are doing it to begin with because they are competing with an imported reserve pool of labour who will work for very little.

The increased population are not buying homes - they are renting them (or getting them paid for with rent allowance).

Correct. Because 1) The imported labour is sending money home to build/buy homes in their own countries, and never had any intention of buying here. and 2) they cant bloody afford to. They are thrown in to the low paid bear pit sleeping it out in shared bedsits and beds.

We as a small country (there's only 4 million odd of us in a world of 7 or 8 billion) have suffered terribly from unemployment in the 1980s and are suffering once again. We need to have a grown up debate on labour supply

Grown up debate? huh.

The past is irrelevant here. There is a race to the bottom going on for both Irish and foreign workers. Homelessness is rife.

This neo-liberal race to the bottom has to stop.

drumswan

dubrov wrote: »

Someone 4-5 years into their career is likely to be about 25.

Maybe If they work in McDonald's.

Tarzana

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Wouldn't say it is 'plenty', you could get by but your quality of living would be quite poor.

If you're sharing with others, it's ample. I live on €20k in Dublin, it's tight, but €30k wouldn't be.

drumswan

Tarzana wrote: »

If you're sharing with others, it's ample. I live on €20k in Dublin, it's tight, but €30k wouldn't be.

People who have got to the stage of their lives where they are earning 30k+ do not want to share with others. It's absurd to expect people in their late twenties and early thirties to house share as a matter of course

Tarzana

drumswan wrote: »

Ive no problem with house sharing when you are a bit younger, but its not something we should expect graduates 4-5 years into their careers to be doing.

drumswan wrote: »

People who have got to the stage of their lives where they are earning 30k+ do not want to share with others. It's absurd to expect people in their late twenties and early thirties to house share as a matter of course

Most of my late 20s/early 30s acquaintances, some with 9/10 years experience under their belts are housesharing. I'm 30, and if I wasn't in a relationship, I would be too. The late 20s/early 30s people in my circle who aren't sharing are also cohabiting. I don't know anyone in my circle who is renting by themselves in Dublin, and some of these people have very good jobs. And I don't see this changing any time soon. It's very normal in my group anyway.

I've come across plenty of well-paid 30-somethings down the year in houseshares - it's really very common.

Captain Chaos

I'm on 24k net in Dublin sharing with 2 others and it's very tight. I can't afford to go on holidays or get my passport renewed, it expired 2 years ago. I can't afford to buy a car or run one yet my commute with a Leap card costs close to 3k a year. Can't get the tax saver option as I can be in a different place each day and sometimes multiple places in one day alone. Or places not close to public transport so I get a lift from other employees. I git hit with 3k net paycut this year and it's made a massive difference. As it is I'm looking at leaving the country to a place where the take home wage to cost of living is more enjoyable because in Dublin it's not possible and outside Dublin there is no work.

I'd need 30k to be comfortable and exist.

Frank Lee Midere

ForEffsSake wrote: »

As someone who is looking to buy and renting currently, I think this is a great idea. We need more professional landlords in this country and not Joe Public investors who buy one or two 'investment properties' and then make crap landlords. This model of institutional landlords works really well in other countries and stabilises the rental market. Personally I think if you sort out the rental market, it will be more attractive to rent long term and people won't be obsessed with being a First Time Buyer and getting on the Property Ladder. And make no mistake, if these properties were sold individually, they wouldn't go to FTBs, they would go to Joe Public investors with a bit of cash.

We do need professional landlords but they could be encouraged to build not buy. Do you think that prices would be so high to buy if thousands of properties are takes out of the system? There are 3K houses for sale on DAFT in Dublin, imagine if the Government wasn't selling to external investors.

ITs a deliberate policy to push up house prices.

Stheno

Captain Chaos wrote: »

I'm on 24k net in Dublin sharing with 2 others and it's very tight. I can't afford to go on holidays or get my passport renewed, it expired 2 years ago. I can't afford to buy a car or run one yet my commute with a Leap card costs close to 3k a year. Can't get the tax saver option as I can be in a different place each day and sometimes multiple places in one day alone. Or places not close to public transport so I get a lift from other employees.

I'd need 30k to be comfortable and exist.

Do you work for the same employer all of the time?