GAA Football Teams to Watch in 2015

JFlah

Considering this is about teams to watch in 2015 .... based on league and performance v's Kerry in Ennis I would expect Clare to show continued improvement next year.. relatively speaking.

Bunk Moreland

There must be another county in Ireland called Armagh that I don't know about because they sure as hell won't be anything special next year. They got relegated to division 3 in the league this year and had a poor Ulster Championship. They beat a poor Tyrone side in the qualifiers and had favourable fixtures right up until the quarters.

The biggest surprise in Ulster next year will be Down. New manager with Clarke and Mooney coming back from Australia will transform Down.

realweirdo

It's hard to look past the big 4 again next year.

Cork, Armagh and possibly Galway might make the breakthrough and reach semi finals.

But the professionalism of the big 4 always seems to see them through most quarter final matches.

I see Armagh as a team peaking in 2 or 3 years time under McGeeney.

Monaghan are a team that allow the big Croke Park occassion get to them. Either failing to put away big teams or else just not showing up. So I don't see them making the breakthrough.

homerjay2005

Tipperary, if managed correctly, are my prediction for the up and coming team in 2015.

if they can get a decent draw to the Munster final, they are only one game away from a 1/4 final and for them, that would be a sensational achievement.

Always_Running

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Tipperary, if managed correctly, are my prediction for the up and coming team in 2015.

if they can get a decent draw to the Munster final, they are only one game away from a 1/4 final and for them, that would be a sensational achievement.

They were one win away from a quarter final this year but their defence eventually let them down against Galway. Good wins against longford,laois to look back on though.

nice_guy80

Wait till the draw

BonnieSituation

Will Thursday just hurry up? Jaysus.

Boom__Boom

JFlah wrote: »

Considering this is about teams to watch in 2015 .... based on league and performance v's Kerry in Ennis I would expect Clare to show continued improvement next year.. relatively speaking.

One thing is that they've lost Paudie Kissane as their coach - I was very impressed with how fit they were for a team who'd been playing in Division 4 against Kerry. The thing is besides Armagh Division 3 is wide open in terms of promotion.

I think Cavan are another side how could surprise a few people next year - they had a horrific year with injuries but I really think 2015 could be a bounce back year for them.

homerjay2005

Boom__Boom wrote: »

One thing is that they've lost Paudie Kissane as their coach - I was very impressed with how fit they were for a team who'd been playing in Division 4 against Kerry. The thing is besides Armagh Division 3 is wide open in terms of promotion.

I think Cavan are another side how could surprise a few people next year - they had a horrific year with injuries but I really think 2015 could be a bounce back year for them.

when you look at counties like Clare, Tipp, Cavan and one or two more, is there anything that can be done for these counties in terms of championship? they are at that level where they are not good enough to be in the top flight, but likewise they are too good for the "lesser" teams (Leitrim, waterford, carlow, antrim etc etc)

they generally leave the provincial championship fairly early as they constantly are drawn against the big boys and then after such big efforts, go out in the qualifiers against other big teams (clare beaten by Kildare and Tipp beaten by Galway for example).

i wonder, could a round robin championship be set up to replace the first two rounds of the qualifiers, to give teams at least 3 championship games, as opposed to just 1?

so you have 4 groups of 4, played off over 3 weekends and the top 2 teams in each group, then goes into the next round, where they playoff then to meet the 8 losing provencial semi finalists who themselves would have their own group to make things a bit more fair and interesting?

Fr Tod Umptious

homerjay2005 wrote: »

when you look at counties like Clare, Tipp, Cavan and one or two more, is there anything that can be done for these counties in terms of championship? they are at that level where they are not good enough to be in the top flight, but likewise they are too good for the "lesser" teams (Leitrim, waterford, carlow, antrim etc etc)

they generally leave the provincial championship fairly early as they constantly are drawn against the big boys and then after such big efforts, go out in the qualifiers against other big teams (clare beaten by Kildare and Tipp beaten by Galway for example).

i wonder, could a round robin championship be set up to replace the first two rounds of the qualifiers, to give teams at least 3 championship games, as opposed to just 1?

so you have 4 groups of 4, played off over 3 weekends and the top 2 teams in each group, then goes into the next round, where they playoff then to meet the 8 losing provencial semi finalists who themselves would have their own group to make things a bit more fair and interesting?

A lot of it has to do with the provincial draw and whether that draw is seeded or not.

In the qualifiers the team that loses a provincial semi-final enters the qualifiers at Rnd 2, which means that they have to win 3 games to get to a AI QF
Teams that lose a provincial final however enter the qualifiers at Rnd 4 and only have to win 1 game to get a to a AI QF

So in the case of Munster 2014 where both Kerry and Cork were seeded teams like Tipp and Clare had to win 3 games to get to an AI QF
But if they were not seeded and Kerry v Cork was a SF game then teams like Tipp etc could get to a Munster final and then be only one win away from an AI QF.
So the key is to remove the seeding.

Munster is not seeded in 2015 but Cork and Kerry do have byes to the SF stage

nicepoint

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

A lot of it has to do with the provincial draw and whether that draw is seeded or not.

In the qualifiers the team that loses a provincial semi-final enters the qualifiers at Rnd 2, which means that they have to win 3 games to get to a AI QF
Teams that lose a provincial final however enter the qualifiers at Rnd 4 and only have to win 1 game to get a to a AI QF

So in the case of Munster 2014 where both Kerry and Cork were seeded teams like Tipp and Clare had to win 3 games to get to an AI QF
But if they were not seeded and Kerry v Cork was a SF game then teams like Tipp etc could get to a Munster final and then be only one win away from an AI QF.
So the key is to remove the seeding.

Munster is not seeded in 2015 but Cork and Kerry do have byes to the SF stage

But Cork & Kerry can draw each other in the Semi final! Important to point out.

Fr Tod Umptious

nicepoint wrote: »

But Cork & Kerry can draw each other in the Semi final! Important to point out.

Obviously, that's why I said it was not seeded but they both have byes.

BonnieSituation

homerjay2005 wrote: »

when you look at counties like Clare, Tipp, Cavan and one or two more, is there anything that can be done for these counties in terms of championship? they are at that level where they are not good enough to be in the top flight, but likewise they are too good for the "lesser" teams (Leitrim, waterford, carlow, antrim etc etc)

they generally leave the provincial championship fairly early as they constantly are drawn against the big boys and then after such big efforts, go out in the qualifiers against other big teams (clare beaten by Kildare and Tipp beaten by Galway for example).

i wonder, could a round robin championship be set up to replace the first two rounds of the qualifiers, to give teams at least 3 championship games, as opposed to just 1?

so you have 4 groups of 4, played off over 3 weekends and the top 2 teams in each group, then goes into the next round, where they playoff then to meet the 8 losing provencial semi finalists who themselves would have their own group to make things a bit more fair and interesting?

A round robin within the Championship at Qualifier stage is just further complication.

It's a pain for those counties but look at Tyrone this year? Same sort of situation. It happens. The best will rise to the top (Cormac Reilly excluded :P),

So if Tipp and Clare want to be in the QF stage they are going to have to beat someone else to get there whether that is Waterford, Wicklow or Tyrone.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

A lot of it has to do with the provincial draw and whether that draw is seeded or not.

In the qualifiers the team that loses a provincial semi-final enters the qualifiers at Rnd 2, which means that they have to win 3 games to get to a AI QF
Teams that lose a provincial final however enter the qualifiers at Rnd 4 and only have to win 1 game to get a to a AI QF

So in the case of Munster 2014 where both Kerry and Cork were seeded teams like Tipp and Clare had to win 3 games to get to an AI QF
But if they were not seeded and Kerry v Cork was a SF game then teams like Tipp etc could get to a Munster final and then be only one win away from an AI QF.
So the key is to remove the seeding.

Munster is not seeded in 2015 but Cork and Kerry do have byes to the SF stage

I didn't realise that the seeding was removed already. Thank fupp for that.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Obviously, that's why I said it was not seeded but they both have byes.

It wasn't that clear. A quick read could indicate that they are in opposite sides of the draw with the bye.

What chances they will be drawn apart?

Boom__Boom

With Donegal for next year a huge issue is who stays and who goes in terms of retirements, given the way McGuinness has used such a small core number of players in his 4 years in charge.

All of the following are already over 30 and some of them have played years and years of intercounty.

Rory Kavanagh
Neil Gallagher
Christy Toye
David Walsh
Paul Durcan
Eamon McGee
Colm McFadden
Karl Lacey

Given the age profile of the Donegal squad combined with it's very concentrated nature, it's very hard not to see Donegal dropping back a bit at some stage in the near future.

I'd say Michael Murphy and a few of the other younger lads are hoping for a kind draw in Ulster(yeah I know ) to help convince the older fogeys to give it a lash for another year.

Boom__Boom

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What chances they will be drawn apart?

50/50 of Kerry playing Cork or not playing Cork

There are 4 SF spots - Kerry and Cork have 2 of them - once Tipp, Clare, Waterford and Limerick have played there will be two of them - all four put in the bowl and pulled out at random so 50/50

The thing is Kerry and Cork have the bye to the semi-finals on the basis of being Munster finalists this year.

If Kerry are drawn against Cork it will mean that one of Tipp, Clare, Waterford or Limerick will get to the Munster final this year, which will mean a bye for them to the semi in 2016.

Personally I'd prefer if the finalists didnt get the bye to the semi and it was a complete open draw so that Kerry would have the possibility of an extra game as I'm a big believer that there is nothing like playing championship football to help in developing top footballers.

harpsman

Boom__Boom wrote: »

With Donegal for next year a huge issue is who stays and who goes in terms of retirements, given the way McGuinness has used such a small core number of players in his 4 years in charge.

All of the following are already over 30 and some of them have played years and years of intercounty.

Rory Kavanagh
Neil Gallagher
Christy Toye
David Walsh
Paul Durcan
Eamon McGee
Colm McFadden
Karl Lacey

Given the age profile of the Donegal squad combined with it's very concentrated nature, it's very hard not to see Donegal dropping back a bit at some stage in the near future.

I'd say Michael Murphy and a few of the other younger lads are hoping for a kind draw in Ulster(yeah I know ) to help convince the older fogeys to give it a lash for another year.

Good points-in fairness theyre all closer to 30 than 35 so if theyre fit and their personal life allows Id say most of them will give it 1 mor year, except McFadden(I hope:D)

Boom__Boom

harpsman wrote: »

Good points-in fairness theyre all closer to 30 than 35 so if theyre fit and their personal life allows Id say most of them will give it 1 mor year, except McFadden(I hope:D)

The thing is they a lot of the lads listed have a world of ball played - sometimes you have lads on county teams who might only have got on there at 23/24/25 but a serious chunk of those lads are looking at 12th/13th/14th years of intercounty.

It's one thing for a lad of 22/23/24 to be playing intercounty but once you get over the 30 mark it's nearly a whole different kettle of fish in terms of personal commitments.

And it's not as if Jim will be making any allowances for them in training I'd imagine....

You could argue (if you were looking to start an argument) that Jim hasnt exactly done great in developing the next generation/deepening the panel depth. I honestly don't know one way or the other not having a clue of what other sort of talent is available in the county (and besides it something that comes very far down the list in terms of judging GAA managers for the most part [Micko ahem])

The thing is that people will look at the minors getting to the final and be expecting them to be pitched straight into senior intercounty next year as opposed to in 3 to 5 years when they will be physically ready.

BonnieSituation

Boom__Boom wrote: »

50/50 of Kerry playing Cork or not playing Cork

There are 4 SF spots - Kerry and Cork have 2 of them - once Tipp, Clare, Waterford and Limerick have played there will be two of them - all four put in the bowl and pulled out at random so 50/50

The thing is Kerry and Cork have the bye to the semi-finals on the basis of being Munster finalists this year.

If Kerry are drawn against Cork it will mean that one of Tipp, Clare, Waterford or Limerick will get to the Munster final this year, which will mean a bye for them to the semi in 2016.

Personally I'd prefer if the finalists didnt get the bye to the semi and it was a complete open draw so that Kerry would have the possibility of an extra game as I'm a big believer that there is nothing like playing championship football to help in developing top footballers.

Seriously. Is there something about a glib or facetious comment on here that people face to see? I was actually gonna tag that comment as "rhetorical"; but thanks for the statistical insight into the workings of Munster football draws. :rolleyes:

Well, seemingly playing bugger all Munster Championship games over the years doesn't seem to matter to Kerry does it now? Be nice if they had to play at least three to get out of Munster for a AIQF once or twice.

---

Also, when were the seedings for 2015 removed from Munster?

Boom__Boom

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Also, when were the seedings for 2015 removed from Munster?

Was confirmed at a Munster Council meeting about 2/3 weeks back.

Edit: Also the seeding/non-seeding/bye setup of the Munster Championship has been pretty much always been decided by Tipp, Limerick, Clare and Waterford on the basis of what best suits them given they always have the majority, so if you have any complaints in that regard you can send your strongly worded letters to the Munster Council reps from those counties.

BonnieSituation

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Was confirmed at a Munster Council meeting about 2/3 weeks back.

Cheers. Completely missed that.

I thought it may have happened whilst I was in Canadia.

---

Did they give a reason? Given that it was the smaller counties who wanted the seeding in the first place?

keane2097

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Cheers. Completely missed that.

I thought it may have happened whilst I was in Canadia.

---

Did they give a reason? Given that it was the smaller counties who wanted the seeding in the first place?

The footballers within the counties went ballistic when the seeding was announced, obviously having not been consulted.

Chrissybhoy

Bunk Moreland wrote: »

There must be another county in Ireland called Armagh that I don't know about because they sure as hell won't be anything special next year. They got relegated to division 3 in the league this year and had a poor Ulster Championship. They beat a poor Tyrone side in the qualifiers and had favourable fixtures right up until the quarters.

The biggest surprise in Ulster next year will be Down. New manager with Clarke and Mooney coming back from Australia will transform Down.

You didn't mention how well they did against Donegal.

BonnieSituation

keane2097 wrote: »

The footballers within the counties went ballistic when the seeding was announced, obviously having not been consulted.

Since when did the Provincial Councils give a shoite about the players?

Well, whatever the reason it should remain as is.

In a province as small as Munster and with the Qualifier series in place it seems rather unfair to seed the previous years finalists. But it is what it is I suppose.

keane2097

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Since when did the Provincial Councils give a shoite about the players?

Well, whatever the reason it should remain as is.

In a province as small as Munster and with the Qualifier series in place it seems rather unfair to seed the previous years finalists. But it is what it is I suppose.

Since they threatened to boycott the Munster Championship I'd imagine.

Boom__Boom

keane2097 wrote: »

Since they threatened to boycott the Munster Championship I'd imagine.

Didnt turn up for any of the Munster Council launches and said mean things about the Munster Council and no players would play in the inter-provincials (how will the poor competition survive)

Boom__Boom

Current odds - from Paddypower

Dublin 5/4
Kerry 7/2
Mayo 13/2
Cork 8/1
Donegal 11/1
Armagh 20/1
Tyrone 22/1
Galway 22/1
Derry 33/1
Kildare 50/1
Monaghan 50/1
Down 66/1
Meath 66/1
Roscommon 150/1
Tipperary 150/1
Laois 150/1
Cavan 200/1
Clare 250/1
Wexford 300/1
Westmeath 400/1
Sligo 400/1
Antrim 500/1
Louth 500/1
Fermanagh 500/1
Longford 500/1
Limerick 750/1
Carlow 1000/1
Offaly 1000/1
Waterford 1000/1
Leitrim 1000/1
Wicklow 1000/1

Boom__Boom

I'd say Dublin's odds are definitely influenced by the population in Dublin - they're also helped by the weakness of Leinster.

Likewise the Ulster teams are probably priced out a bit as they are a number of tricky teams up there. I could see the odds on some of the Ulster teams change a bit if they get a kindish draw (all the other big names on the other side for instance)

I definitely don't think there is any value whatsoever in backing any of the big names now - wait until the league is started and the retirements situation is known at the very least. I'd say it would make more sense to wait until the league is over and then back likely All-Star candidates among those you believe are likely to win and hope they don't get injured.

BonnieSituation

keane2097 wrote: »

Since they threatened to boycott the Munster Championship I'd imagine.

Did they now. The dirty rossies.

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Didnt turn up for any of the Munster Council launches and said mean things about the Munster Council and no players would play in the inter-provincials (how will the poor competition survive)

That's those Cork lads for ya. Always causing trouble.

Boom__Boom wrote: »

I'd say Dublin's odds are definitely influenced by the population in Dublin - they're also helped by the weakness of Leinster.

Being in the last 5 SFs and winning 2/4 All-Irelands does help. We're not a bad team either in general.

The odds are reflective of bets anyway. Population and sense will influence that.

Likewise the Ulster teams are probably priced out a bit as they are a number of tricky teams up there. I could see the odds on some of the Ulster teams change a bit if they get a kindish draw (all the other big names on the other side for instance)

I definitely don't think there is any value whatsoever in backing any of the big names now - wait until the league is started and the retirements situation is known at the very least. I'd say it would make more sense to wait until the league is over and then back likely All-Star candidates among those you believe are likely to win and hope they don't get injured.

I don't think Dublin and Kerry as the top two is too far from the reality though as things stand.

Farmer Pudsey

I would not bet on Kerry at them odds.We were lucky this year everybody knows that. We will lose 2-3 players. Dublin has to be the form team. Would not expect much of Kerry next year won a lucky AI this year.

If the Draw goes wrong and they lose to Cork they could get knocked out in the qualifiers. Dublin are rightly the shortest odds every body know that they are the best team in the country. Mayo and Cork are next and next and Jim will work his magic with Donegal. I even reckon that Galway or Tipp could do better than us. Kerry will be lucky to make quarter-finals

harpsman

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Current odds - from Paddypower

Dublin 5/4
Kerry 7/2
Mayo 13/2
Cork 8/1
Donegal 11/1
Armagh 20/1
Tyrone 22/1
Galway 22/1
Derry 33/1
Kildare 50/1
Monaghan 50/1
Down 66/1
Meath 66/1
Roscommon 150/1
Tipperary 150/1
Laois 150/1
Cavan 200/1
Clare 250/1
Wexford 300/1
Westmeath 400/1
Sligo 400/1
Antrim 500/1
Louth 500/1
Fermanagh 500/1
Longford 500/1
Limerick 750/1
Carlow 1000/1
Offaly 1000/1
Waterford 1000/1
Leitrim 1000/1
Wicklow 1000/1

Cork 8/1-wouldnt back them at that. Monaghan 50/1-seems long.

Timmyctc

harpsman wrote: »

Cork 8/1-wouldnt back them at that. Monaghan 50/1-seems long.

Its long for good reason

harpsman

Timmyctc wrote: »

Its long for good reason

i thnk theyve as good a chance as armagh or tyrone, however slim that is

The_Honeybadger

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I would not bet on Kerry at them odds.We were lucky this year everybody knows that. We will lose 2-3 players. Dublin has to be the form team. Would not expect much of Kerry next year won a lucky AI this year.

If the Draw goes wrong and they lose to Cork they could get knocked out in the qualifiers. Dublin are rightly the shortest odds every body know that they are the best team in the country. Mayo and Cork are next and next and Jim will work his magic with Donegal. I even reckon that Galway or Tipp could do better than us. Kerry will be lucky to make quarter-finals

There could well be a hangover after this years success but I think your pessimism is overstated. We will very likely get off to a slow start, pull our legs through a few games that we should really be winning at a canter, and maybe fall at the quarter or semis depending on who we draw. A kind draw could see us in another AI final though. There should be plenty of hunger in that young team and we will hopefully be welcoming cooper and Walsh back assuming they are fit.

I agree we were incredibly lucky this year, especially against mayo but I think we'll have a stronger panel for 2015, while mayo and Donegal could regress a little depending on retirements etc. Dublin are a serious team and I wouldn't fancy us beating them, Donegal did us a major favour this year by knocking them out.

BPKS

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I would not bet on Kerry at them odds.We were lucky this year everybody knows that. We will lose 2-3 players. Dublin has to be the form team. Would not expect much of Kerry next year won a lucky AI this year.

If the Draw goes wrong and they lose to Cork they could get knocked out in the qualifiers. Dublin are rightly the shortest odds every body know that they are the best team in the country. Mayo and Cork are next and next and Jim will work his magic with Donegal. I even reckon that Galway or Tipp could do better than us. Kerry will be lucky to make quarter-finals

You forgot the "yerra" farmer pudsey

Boom__Boom

harpsman wrote: »

Cork 8/1-wouldnt back them at that. Monaghan 50/1-seems long.

Yeah -I agree on Cork - they're my tip for relegation from Division 1 with 4 away trips up north.

The record of teams who get relegated in the league tends to be awful in the championship (Armagh were a notable exception this year) - if you look at how the teams who were relegated from Division 1 do in the championship the same year it tends to be very very poorly.

Their performance against Mayo I think will stop people looking too closely at their season but really they had a very poor year in the championship with the Mayo performance being very much the exception as opposed to the norm. They managed to win the game against Tipp but everyone I talked to since said they were haunted and Tipp should have won, out of kindness I won't dwell on the Kerry game, the scoreline against a poor Sligo side was massively flattered by the fact that in the first half Sligo couldnt kick a point to save their life. Even in the Mayo game, which they lost, it was more about the familiar failings of Mayo of being unable to see a game out/taking the foot off the panel and a stunning impact from Donnacha o'Connor off the bench.

You start from there and then you hear all the talk about the camp still being in disarray and a serious chunk of the players with no time for Cuthbert, the whole car-crash that is dualism and it's very hard to see 2015 being a good year for Cork.

Timmyctc

harpsman wrote: »

i thnk theyve as good a chance as armagh or tyrone, however slim that is

I don't really know about that. Tyrone have experience in the latter stages of the competition and while I wouldnt claim to know their minors etc in depth they must have a good string of youth coming through (IIRC their minors won Ulster 2010-2012?) They also seem to have that extra bit of 'grit' to get them through games. (See Sean Cavanagh v Monaghan :P )

Monaghan sorta hit me as Deer in the headlights v Dublin. I just think a team with the cynical mentality of Tyrone would be more capable of shutting a top team like Dublin down somewhat. (Not that they would have beaten Dublin this year. Only a true top side could have done that)

Monaghan have been no great shakes from about 2007 till last year either. Two good years behind them now granted, I just think they've been playing at their absolutely capacity and their level seems to be Ulster/ AI QF.

Armagh I couldn't care less about cause my granny supports them. Silly oul woman :pac:

Boom__Boom

Timmyctc wrote: »

Armagh I couldn't care less about cause my granny supports them. Silly oul woman :pac:

I think it will be very interesting to see how Armagh do in the championship this year. Odds are they will be get promoted at a relative canter, but in terms of preparation for playing Ulster championship/having a tilt at Sam, I'd say that Division 3 football would be close to useless. With McGeeney having a 5 year deal, I think there will be very little in the way of expectations next year and most Armagh folk would have been delighted by how the championship went this year but wouldnt be expecting a serious challenge for Sam next year.

By comparison Tyrone have been in Division 1 all along which is far more useful in terms of developing players/preparing for serious championship business. It looks like it could well be Harte's last year so I would be wary that Tyrone could go all out. They also got a fairly harsh draw this year in terms of the Ulster championships and in terms of the qualifiers [they lost by a point to Monaghan and 3 to Armagh and yet went out the same weekend as Cavan, Down and Carlow.] Definitely could be one to watch, especially if the youngsters start to break through.

With Monaghan it will be interesting to see if they can push into the very top level of serious contenders and how they cope with the challenge of being back in Division 1 again. They have 4 away games and 3 home so it won't be easy.
I think a lot of dominos would have to fall their way for them to pick up Sam but I could definitely see them being well capable of taking out any of the serious contenders.

shrewdness

harpsman wrote: »

i thnk theyve as good a chance as armagh or tyrone, however slim that is

Some of those odds are completely off the mark. I can understand the odds on say Galway to some extent, given it's a different province. But I don't see in what world Armagh would be 20/1 and Monaghan 50/1.

The manner in which Monaghan exited the championship seems to have distorted many people's views on them. That game certainly showed they're not at Dublin's level, but they'll still beat most teams. Armagh's improvement this year means they've went up in everyone's estimation, but too much in some cases like these odds show. At the end of the day Monaghan and Armagh exited at the same stage, but Monaghan got to an Ulster final, beat Armagh themselves and will be playing Division 1 football in the spring while Armagh will be in Division 3. Neither will win Sam but I know who my moneys on if they meet again in 2015.

Re: Tyrone, they may have had more grit in past years but they look like a team in transition. A poor 2014 and I don't see reasons for optimism as far as the AI goes. Not a huge amount of experience now when you look through their team(with a few notable exceptions of course). No Ulster title since 2010, and the younger lads coming through are far from the quality of their AI winners. They'll contest Ulster all right but I doubt they'll be in the shake up for the All-Ireland.

thinkstoomuch1

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Yeah -I agree on Cork - they're my tip for relegation from Division 1 with 4 away trips up north.

The record of teams who get relegated in the league tends to be awful in the championship (Armagh were a notable exception this year) - if you look at how the teams who were relegated from Division 1 do in the championship the same year it tends to be very very poorly.

Their performance against Mayo I think will stop people looking too closely at their season but really they had a very poor year in the championship with the Mayo performance being very much the exception as opposed to the norm. They managed to win the game against Tipp but everyone I talked to since said they were haunted and Tipp should have won, out of kindness I won't dwell on the Kerry game, the scoreline against a poor Sligo side was massively flattered by the fact that in the first half Sligo couldnt kick a point to save their life. Even in the Mayo game, which they lost, it was more about the familiar failings of Mayo of being unable to see a game out/taking the foot off the panel and a stunning impact from Donnacha o'Connor off the bench.

You start from there and then you hear all the talk about the camp still being in disarray and a serious chunk of the players with no time for Cuthbert, the whole car-crash that is dualism and it's very hard to see 2015 being a good year for Cork.

A very realistic assement of cork,honest assement.
I am sad to say but you are bang on with that post.

Amprodude

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

A very realistic assement of cork,honest assement.
I am sad to say but you are bang on with that post.

Quoting the good old Mourihno, Cuthbert is a specialist in Failure. Cork Football is in crisis and we are going to see bleak years ahead. Sickening that the Cork team from 2008-12 only delivered one All Ireland and there was a lot of good players there.

Timmyctc

Donegal odds can only get longer now the king of Donegal has moved on to greener pastures. Absolutely gutted. The way that team has been set up id imagine the scenarios we may see are
- A few of the players retiring, lots of youth brought in where possible during the league and an entirely new set up started.
-New manager accepts the setup isn't an easy thing to change and tries to emulate it to no avail.

Either way i envisage a wait for another Sam.

RoscommonTom

The rosies for the quarters

RoscommonTom

I think the jacks will win, still the best team in Ireland no matter what happen this year, the only ones what will challenge them is the corks or mayos, kerrys will die off hopefully anyway next year

Timmyctc

RoscommonTom wrote: »

I think the jacks will win, still the best team in Ireland no matter what happen this year, the only ones what will challenge them is the corks or mayos, kerrys will die off hopefully anyway next year

just so you're aware there's only one Cork, Mayo and Kerry team

Fr Tod Umptious

Timmyctc wrote: »

I don't really know about that. Tyrone have experience in the latter stages of the competition and while I wouldnt claim to know their minors etc in depth they must have a good string of youth coming through (IIRC their minors won Ulster 2010-2012?) They also seem to have that extra bit of 'grit' to get them through games. (See Sean Cavanagh v Monaghan :P )

Monaghan sorta hit me as Deer in the headlights v Dublin. I just think a team with the cynical mentality of Tyrone would be more capable of shutting a top team like Dublin down somewhat. (Not that they would have beaten Dublin this year. Only a true top side could have done that)

Monaghan have been no great shakes from about 2007 till last year either. Two good years behind them now granted, I just think they've been playing at their absolutely capacity and their level seems to be Ulster/ AI QF.

Armagh I couldn't care less about cause my granny supports them. Silly oul woman :pac:

With regard to Monaghan I think that inexperience played a part parts n their QF loss in 2013.
They came up against wiley old foxes Tyrone and managed to lose

They failed to move on a step in 2014 because they failed to win Ulster.

That put them straight into the lions den v Dublin and the outcome was always going to be a Dublin win.
Had they won Ulster then would have played Armagh and proabaly got to the SF.

So in 2015 they have to win Ulster to be in with any chance of getting to the next level i.e AI SF.

Boom__Boom

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

A very realistic assement of cork,honest assement.
I am sad to say but you are bang on with that post.

Amprodude wrote: »

Quoting the good old Mourihno, Cuthbert is a specialist in Failure. Cork Football is in crisis and we are going to see bleak years ahead. Sickening that the Cork team from 2008-12 only delivered one All Ireland and there was a lot of good players there.

The thing is that in terms of players I think there is definitely enough in Cork at the moment to be properly challenging.

However the situation with Cuthbert seems to have gotten so bad, that it seems he's an actual hindrance to Cork's chances as opposed to being any sort of positive whatsoever. That's a pretty damming state of affairs - how harder must it be for the lads in Cork squad to start into a 2nd year with him at the helm having seen up close how he works and a serious chunk having zero faith in him whatsoever.

I think if next year turns out to be another poor year (and I really can't see it being successful and I could easily see it ending up seriously pear-shaped) , the chances of Cuthbert being given another term have to be minimal, despite what the county board might want, which has to be a positive.

One huge longer-term problem for Cork football is the poor standard of club football. It's all well and good having development squads and the like but if you don't have a decent standard of regular club games, it's like trying to build on quicksand.

RoscommonTom

Timmyctc wrote: »

just so you're aware there's only one Cork, Mayo and Kerry team

What are you on about

Amprodude

Kerry will win in 2015. Tommy Walsh Gooch, JOD, Geaney, Donaghy. How are defenses going to mark them all? They will trounce Cork in Killarney same story the usual with the joke Cork football is and straight into semi final Kerry will go Dublin will fall short if they come up against them. Its Kerrys to lose. Kerry could be like KK in hurling with periods of dominance over next decade.

Fr Tod Umptious

Boom__Boom wrote: »

The thing is that in terms of players I think there is definitely enough in Cork at the moment to be properly challenging.

However the situation with Cuthbert seems to have gotten so bad, that it seems he's an actual hindrance to Cork's chances as opposed to being any sort of positive whatsoever. That's a pretty damming state of affairs - how harder must it be for the lads in Cork squad to start into a 2nd year with him at the helm having seen up close how he works and a serious chunk having zero faith in him whatsoever.

I think if next year turns out to be another poor year (and I really can't see it being successful and I could easily see it ending up seriously pear-shaped) , the chances of Cuthbert being given another term have to be minimal, despite what the county board might want, which has to be a positive.

One huge longer-term problem for Cork football is the poor standard of club football. It's all well and good having development squads and the like but if you don't have a decent standard of regular club games, it's like trying to build on quicksand.

Amazing how things change in a few months.
During the league folks reckoned that Cuthbert was freeing Cork players from the hinderance Connihan (sp) had imposed on them for years.

Timmyctc

RoscommonTom wrote: »

What are you on about

Google pluralisation. Then reread your last post.