Water Charges and PPS No.s required

Draco · 24-09-2014 3:53pm

Zamboni wrote: »

just a ply to get PPS number - not just for Irish Water but for the state itself.

The state issues your PPSN so already has it. Where do you think think it comes from?

Zamboni · 24-09-2014 3:59pm

Draco wrote: »

The state issues your PPSN so already has it. Where do you think think it comes from?

On the day the state issued your PPS it knew where you lived at that point in time.
Now this will assist the state in tracking citizens through time.
Think about the vast value of knowing who/what/where all citizens, what stages of the lives they are in. Population movement, demographics future trends and so on. This is just another step towards that goal. I like it btw

Draco · 24-09-2014 3:59pm

D3PO wrote: »

I dont see the issue tbh although It is/was a bit of a pain in the ass for me personally.

Had to take a day off work yesterday to register the birth of my new son just so I could sort getting a PPS number for him to fill in the form and thus get his water allowance. Granted I would have had to register the birth at some stage but it was an inconvienence to be rused into doing it when tbh I have enough on my plate right now.

It look like you can tell them about a new child and send in the PPSN later, if this exchange on twitter with the @irishwater account is right:
https://twitter.com/IrishWater/status/514768248878137344

It is something they really should have made clearer from the get go.

Their PR machine really has been terrible on all of this.

Draco · 24-09-2014 4:00pm

Zamboni wrote: »

On the day the state issued your PPS it knew where you lived at that point in time.
Now this will assist the state in tracking citizens through time.
Think about the vast value of knowing who/what/where all citizens, what stages of the lives they are in. Population movement, demographics future trends and so on. This is just another step towards that goal. I like it btw

Have you never participated in a census? Which is what they use for all of that.

Zamboni · 24-09-2014 4:05pm

Draco wrote: »

Have you never participated in a census? Which is what they use for all of that.

This will be a far superior method of collecting accurate data than the census in its current form.

baldbear · 24-09-2014 4:22pm

Could the kids PPS number be used to see if kids are living with both parents and check if people are falsely claiming single parents allowance or am I being a bit Jim Corr?

Timberrrrrrrr · 24-09-2014 4:27pm

Zamboni wrote: »

On the day the state issued your PPS it knew where you lived at that point in time.
Now this will assist the state in tracking citizens through time.
Think about the vast value of knowing who/what/where all citizens, what stages of the lives they are in. Population movement, demographics future trends and so on. This is just another step towards that goal. I like it btw

But they know this already

If you are working then the state knows this through your pps number for tax

If you are unemployed they know via the dole

Student? Know via grants.

Pensioner? Pension.

martinn123 · 24-09-2014 4:33pm

Zamboni wrote: »

On the day the state issued your PPS it knew where you lived at that point in time.
Now this will assist the state in tracking citizens through time.
Think about the vast value of knowing who/what/where all citizens, what stages of the lives they are in. Population movement, demographics future trends and so on. This is just another step towards that goal. I like it btw

And if they get your ClubCard details as well, they will know what you buy, how much wine you drink, cigarettes, etc etc

The AppleGreen/Topaz Card will tell them how much petrol/diesel you buy.

Dunnes Stores are in on this as well,

and
M&S, Switzers, they are all at it.

George Orwell predicted it all, just got his date wrong.;):eek:

Mrs OBumble · 24-09-2014 5:12pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

But they know this already

If you are working then the state knows this through your pps number for tax

Nope. The state doesn't necessarily have an address for you. They have one for your employer.

They may have one for you too, in some circumstances (eg you've asked for a balancing statement), but very often they don't, or they don't know if its up-to-date.

L1011 · 24-09-2014 5:21pm

martinn123 wrote: »

And if they get your ClubCard details as well, they will know what you buy, how much wine you drink, cigarettes, etc etc

The AppleGreen/Topaz Card will tell them how much petrol/diesel you buy.

Dunnes Stores are in on this as well,

and
M&S, Switzers, they are all at it.

George Orwell predicted it all, just got his date wrong.;):eek:

Switzers? This isn't 1994. M&S have no loyalty card either; and anyway loyalty schemes are optional

L1011 · 24-09-2014 5:23pm

baldbear wrote: »

Could the kids PPS number be used to see if kids are living with both parents and check if people are falsely claiming single parents allowance or am I being a bit Jim Corr?

Almost certainly, that is the point - to ensure the people being claimed for exist and exist only once

killintime · 24-09-2014 5:32pm

p_o_s_t_y wrote: »

Everyone should read this and make up your mind:
http://www.unitedpeople.ie/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/irishwatersituation.pdf

some nice info ther thanks

L1011 · 24-09-2014 5:55pm

killintime wrote: »

some nice info ther thanks

Pity it's nearly entirely wildly inaccurate guesswork and suppositions based on an incredibly poor and lacking knowledge of law.

The_Conductor · 24-09-2014 7:37pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Nope. The state doesn't necessarily have an address for you. They have one for your employer.

They may have one for you too, in some circumstances (eg you've asked for a balancing statement), but very often they don't, or they don't know if its up-to-date.

The Revenue Commissioners and DSP- normalise their data, and have online (webservice) links that other government departments, and authorised state agencies, can query to check the accuracy of PPSN details. Its a two-way link (for example- if a death is notified to DSP- the records elsewhere are updated etc).

The level of integration is actually really really good.

Normally- there is a designated section in charge of checking this data- and running the updates (usually daily). Ordinary staff members in government departments and agencies- do not have the facility to run checks on the data- but once PPSNs are captured- they can then be updated via the wsdl links.

Irish Water is a designated body- under both Acts (and the DSP SI from earlier this summer). You can argue to your hearts content with the phone staff in Irish Water- and Lord knows, I think its ridiculous that they are allowed verify data in this way- but they are..........

My own issue- is the callcentre in question- is the same one that had employees caught out collecting credit card details from people enquiring about the Local Property tax earlier this year. I think its scandalous that the company was even considered for another contract- and one of this magnitude- its quite ridiculous.

irishgirl19 · 25-09-2014 11:20am

I'm renting from a family member and as the rent is relatively cheap. Its not on the books. I'm wondering is this water charge application form going to get my landlord in big trouble?

D3PO · 25-09-2014 11:25am

irishgirl19 wrote: »

I'm renting from a family member and as the rent is relatively cheap. Its not on the books. I'm wondering is this water charge application form going to get my landlord in big trouble?

I hope so.

irishgirl19 · 25-09-2014 11:28am

I'm staying in my grandmother's house and I am taking care of the house. I give my grandfather a small sum of money even though he doesn't want anything

D3PO · 25-09-2014 11:36am

irishgirl19 wrote: »

I'm staying in my grandmother's house and I am taking care of the house. I give my grandfather a small sum of money even though he doesn't want anything

If he doesnt want anything then he would have no problem declaring what you are giving him and paying the relevent tax so.

irishgirl19 · 25-09-2014 11:45am

D3PO wrote: »

If he doesnt want anything then he would have no problem declaring what you are giving him and paying the relevent tax so.

Thanks for your input. Still hasn't answered my question though

The_Morrigan · 25-09-2014 12:27pm

irishgirl, where does your grandfather live?

Sun in Capri · 25-09-2014 12:29pm

I would expect that in time there will be a register of all pps numbers against residences eg which will show if you own a property and live in it, rent out a property and or are a tenant in a property. This information will come from the likes of the property tax register and probably from Irish Water register too. In time I would expect that a check will be done to see if relevant taxes are being paid such as tax on rental income.

Ogham · 25-09-2014 12:34pm

The_Morrigan wrote: »

irishgirl, where does your grandfather live?

I think he's asking do you live in the same house as your grandfather and is not stalking you.

I think fom what she says that she doesn't live with the grandfather .

She could say she is just living rent free. Giving a "gift" to a family member now and then isn't taxable isit ?

ForestFire · 25-09-2014 12:34pm

irishgirl19 wrote: »

Thanks for your input. Still hasn't answered my question though

if you are only renting a room in the house and your grandfather still lives in the house, then he is not liable for tax up to a more than €10000 euro.

It is covered under the rent a room scheme. Details on citizens inoformation

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/rent_a_room_scheme.html

irishgirl19 · 25-09-2014 1:06pm

The_Morrigan wrote: »

irishgirl, where does your grandfather live?

He's in Dublin

L1011 · 25-09-2014 1:23pm

Ogham wrote: »

She could say she is just living rent free. Giving a "gift" to a family member now and then isn't taxable isit ?

Over 3k a year and it may be.

The_Morrigan · 25-09-2014 2:03pm

irishgirl19 wrote: »

He's in Dublin

That doesn't exactly help here, cos we don't know where you are!

Do you live in the same house as your grandfather?

Ogham · 25-09-2014 2:07pm

What about the NPPR ?

Mrs OBumble · 25-09-2014 2:15pm

irishgirl19 wrote: »

He's in Dublin

Irishgirl, what s/he was trying to ask is if your grandfather lives in the same house, not where in the country he is.

Someone below has suggested that you could live in a house owned by your grandfather rent free, and instead of rent just give occasional gifts to him. But if you do this, then:

1) your grandfather may be liable for tax on the gifts (depending on the lifetime amount), AND
2) you may be liable for tax on the market value of the accommodation provided to you.

Now you really are doing a caretaker role in the property, things may be different. But I suspect that Revenue would look for some evidence of that - things like tools, materials purchases etc. Just living there is NOT being a caretaker.

To get back to your original point (and assuming that your grandfather doesn't live in the house):- I doubt that the water billing thing will immediately cause Revenue to catch up with the fact that your grandfather is not paying the tax he should be paying on the rent you pay. At least not immediately. But it might do longer term.

rubberdiddies · 25-09-2014 2:48pm

drumswan wrote: »

Can you link to this?

http://www.water.ie/data-protection-notice/

They appear to have removed the reference to 'being sold' on September 19th

ABajaninCork · 25-09-2014 3:01pm

We have to (reluctantly) give a PPS No. in order to avail of the allowances...

I also have no problem paying for water. Being English, this is nothing new. What p1sses me off is the fact that the billing will start from next week with a bill due in Jan. But we have no idea what the bill looks like as Irish Water have no bloody clue themselves.

The whole thing has been a disaster from the get-go.

Water Charges and PPS No.s required

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