The future of RTE Radio 1 LW

No one listens to it in Ireland because there are simply no Irish MW stations to listen to, ok apart from one low power religious station which I'm sure some people listen to otherwise it wouldn't exist.

The Parish Priest.

Does anyone remember when they did a celebrity big brother type thing for telethon on lw 252 ?

kazoo106

Atlantic were on 254 for the first good few months, changed to 252 around the same time as BBC moved from 200 to 198

The Parish Priest.

Today was going to be the day that RTE longwave 252 was going to close down had it not been for the ofcom restrictions preventing them getting on dab+ last year.

I don't understand that if Mw/Lw works and you need one transmitter why they need to invest in several DAB transmitters. If it's not broke don't fix it.

dxhound2005

One transmitter would be enough if it was very high power. But there are complaints on this thread from parts of Ireland who cannot get good reception on 252. e.g.

252 LW is an unintelligible mess of Clarkstown and Algeria in North Cork tonight. RTE TX is 220km away and the Algerian TX is 1970km away


So something does need to be fixed which would cost extra money for higher power or a new transmitter.

And when there was a MW service there were local transmitters for Radio 1 in Cork and for 2FM in Dublin (729 and 612 kHz).

Overspill reception of domestic radio like RTE into Britain happens across lots of borders, but that does not make RTE an international broadcaster. If the BBC don't even try to cover all of Britain with one transmitter on 198 or any MW frequency, I can't see how RTE would manage it from Ireland.

252 is a 500 Kw transmitter isn't it ? and we all know it's running at a fraction of the power.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

252 is a 500 Kw transmitter isn't it ? and we all know it's running at a fraction of the power.

300 but suspected to be running at 150.

burnsey1987

Did someone turn up the output in Clarkstown/Summerhill? It's a lot clearer and much louder than usual in Limerick tonight. Either that or Algeria 3 have dialed down their power as it's barely noticeable below RTE.

Also getting Romania on 153 (very weak signal, voices barely audible but music okay and minimal interference), Europe 1 on 183 (intelligible but lots of interference that I can't seem to null out), BBC4 (okay-ish signal, lots of crackling), Monte Carlo on 216 (good strong and clear signal) and Luxembourg on 234 (signal as per BBC4 but more crackling). Anyone picking up anything else?

marno21

252 is clear here in Castletroy but I can still get Algeria below it reasonably clear. It'd start to annoy you after a few minutes. Plenty of dirty electrical noise too.

marno21

marno21 wrote: »

252 is clear here in Castletroy but I can still get Algeria below it reasonably clear. It'd start to annoy you after a few minutes. Plenty of dirty electrical noise too.

You'd be surprised how filthy dirty the likes of Laptop and mobile phone chargers are, laptops themselves and PC's are also going to cause interference.

Some LCD TV's , CFL's, and LEd lights give out brutal RFI especially Plasma tv's.

Go outside with a portable radio and see the difference.

Those brodband powerline extenders are woeful also, as long as nothing interferes with TV no one cares about anything else.

252 is being drowned out by Algeria in the Netherlands on this SDR.

http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/

marno21

Deleted User wrote: »

You'd be surprised how filthy dirty the likes of Laptop and mobile phone chargers are, laptops themselves and PC's are also going to cause interference.

Some LCD TV's , CFL's, and LEd lights give out brutal RFI especially Plasma tv's.

Go outside with a portable radio and see the difference.

Those brodband powerline extenders are woeful also, as long as nothing interferes with TV no one cares about anything else.

4 laptops, 4 phone chargers, 4 phones, and a TV along with a wifi network currently on in the house. No surprise TBH.

Clarkstown clear on the Peterborough SDR: http://cambs-sdr.no-ip.org:8901/

burnsey1987

I agree with Mad Lad. I suggest you go to the most electrically quiet room in the house. I tend to bring the radio into the bedroom where there's nothing at all plugged in, no electronics other than the radio and leave my phone in a different room. My front room is a different story, I struggle to pick up even Wales on 882 MW

marno21

burnsey1987 wrote: »

I agree with Mad Lad. I suggest you go to the most electrically quiet room in the house. I tend to bring the radio into the bedroom where there's nothing at all plugged in, no electronics other than the radio and leave my phone in a different room. My front room is a different story, I struggle to pick up even Wales on 882 MW

In fairness, I can just use 88.8/89.4/90.0 or DAB

My partner got a non Apple Charger and it's the noisiest charger I've ever heard. It could be clearly heard on many bands including SW, I plug it out and the difference is completely amazing. I've since brought it to recycling because it's pure dirt, there's no regulation on this rubbish from China. More needs to be done to prevent this noisy junk entering homes.

One good thing to try is to switch the mains off at the consumer unit and see if this makes a difference.

I found that some chargers and power supplies just plugged in to the mains not even connected to anything can cause a lot of RFI.

marno21

marno21 wrote: »

In fairness, I can just use 88.8/89.4/90.0 or DAB

DAB is a joke, unless the signal is good it can't be heard at all.

burnsey1987

Deleted User wrote: »

DAB is a joke, unless the signal is good it can't be heard at all.

Personally I would describe DAB in the words of Ned Flanders during his Hurricane rant as "the answer to the question no-one asked"

lol yeah indeed. If there were no DAB no one would care. So why bother ? Digital doesn't mean fantastic. Especially at some of the bitrates of Irish transmissions.

I can see Mount Leinster from the Sitting room window and getting DAB is a struggle, have to have the radio in the Window and even at that it's a pain to listen to, wtf ? great tech alright.

marno21

Deleted User wrote: »

My partner got a non Apple Charger and it's the noisiest charger I've ever heard. It could be clearly heard on many bands including SW, I plug it out and the difference is completely amazing. I've since brought it to recycling because it's pure dirt, there's no regulation on this rubbish from China. More needs to be done to prevent this noisy junk entering homes.

One good thing to try is to switch the mains off at the consumer unit and see if this makes a difference.

I found that some chargers and power supplies just plugged in to the mains not even connected to anything can cause a lot of RFI.

True, most people would be oblivious to this and just avoid using MW/LW/SW.

Deleted User wrote: »

DAB is a joke, unless the signal is good it can't be heard at all.

I've LOS to Woodcock Hill so it's clear.

Deleted User wrote: »

lol yeah indeed. If there were no DAB no one would care. So why bother ? Digital doesn't mean fantastic. Especially at some of the bitrates of Irish transmissions.

I can see Mount Leinster from the Sitting room window and getting DAB is a struggle, have to have the radio in the Window and even at that it's a pain to listen to, wtf ? great tech alright.

Is this the RTE Mux? There is no DAB transmissions from Mount Leinster, there was a Total Broadcast trial from Blackstairs Mountain, not sure if it's still on air.

DAB was transmitting from Mt Leinster a few weeks ago anyway, haven't tried since, gave up. Must try tomorrow. Unless I was getting it from somewhere else, though highly unlikely.

marno21

Deleted User wrote: »

DAB was transmitting from Mt Leinster a few weeks ago anyway, haven't tried since, gave up. Must try tomorrow. Unless I was getting it from somewhere else, though highly unlikely.

If you're in Kildare you could be getting it from Kippure.

Oscarziggy

252 being obliterated by Algeria tonight across the water in Pembrokeshire.
Regards

marno21

marno21 wrote: »

If you're in Kildare you could be getting it from Kippure.

Doubt it I'm a few hundred meters from the Carlow Boarder.

The Parish Priest.

RTE have been quietly claiming the past couple of years that the mast is at the end of it's life unless a substantial amount of money is spent to refurbish it, could someone here who knows about such matters explain if they are bull****ting or not

dxhound2005

The Parish Priest. wrote: »

RTE have been quietly claiming the past couple of years that the mast is at the end of it's life unless a substantial amount of money is spent to refurbish it, could someone here who knows about such matters explain if they are bull****ting or not

You are the only one on the internet with knowledge of this, at least from what I can see. But the Fianna Fail TD for Meath gave a story to the Meath Chronicle recently which would confirm what you heard. It has been quoted on various radio forums worldwide.

When it comes to keeping the locals in Meath happy by removing the mast, or keeping the Long Wave service going for the benefit of some very old expats, there are more votes to be got for supporting the removal of the mast.

https://www.wwdxc.de/topnews.shtml

marno21

The former France Inter transmission on 162kHz from Allious, which since 1st of January has been a silent carrier carrying time information modulated onto the carrier. It had a TX power of 2MW when carrying audio but this has now been reduced to 1.1MW.

Seeing as it was transmitting carrier information, the frequency was opened to anyone interested for reactivating it for audio broadcasting. There has been no applications. Would surely mean that 252 would have no other use after RTE vacate the frequency

(Source: http://mediumwave.info/news.html)

burnsey1987

marno21 wrote: »

The former France Inter transmission on 162kHz from Allious, which since 1st of January has been a silent carrier carrying time information modulated onto the carrier. It had a TX power of 2MW when carrying audio but this has now been reduced to 1.1MW.

Seeing as it was transmitting carrier information, the frequency was opened to anyone interested for reactivating it for audio broadcasting. There has been no applications. Would surely mean that 252 would have no other use after RTE vacate the frequency

(Source: http://mediumwave.info/news.html)

The UK does something similar with time signals, except those are below the LW broadcast band in their case. AFAIK RTE isn't using Summerhill for any such purpose.

On another note, and this is just hearsay, but I'm told that Luxembourg, Monte Carlo and Europe 1 (deteriorated here in Limerick in the last while) were keeping a close eye on France Info closing. I wonder how much longer they will stay around for, especially with the EU-wide change in data roaming coming into effect...

Also, I know Iceland are testing a MW transmitter to replace the two LW masts which are apparently costing way too much to run. The new transmitter is performing better than expected according to the state broadcaster's technical director.

There'll be nothing at all on LW in the next year or so at this rate, except for Algeria, Morocco and Mongolia (not audible here) which I'd say will stay put for a while yet...

I'd say when some hack brings the internet down for days or far longer or at least severely disrupts it that we will finally realise the foolishness of relying on the he internet for as much as we do.

It can't happen I hear ye all say, well why do people believe that the internet is indestructible?

dxhound2005

burnsey1987 wrote: »

The UK does something similar with time signals, except those are below the LW broadcast band in their case. AFAIK RTE isn't using Summerhill for any such purpose.

On another note, and this is just hearsay, but I'm told that Luxembourg, Monte Carlo and Europe 1 (deteriorated here in Limerick in the last while) were keeping a close eye on France Info closing. I wonder how much longer they will stay around for, especially with the EU-wide change in data roaming coming into effect...

Also, I know Iceland are testing a MW transmitter to replace the two LW masts which are apparently costing way too much to run. The new transmitter is performing better than expected according to the state broadcaster's technical director.

There'll be nothing at all on LW in the next year or so at this rate, except for Algeria, Morocco and Mongolia (not audible here) which I'd say will stay put for a while yet...

There is another signal transmitted along with Radio 4 on 198 to regulate electricity meters. The time signal on 60 kHz is only 15 kilowatts and this is received by all the radio controlled timepieces in the UK and Ireland. Along with the 50 kilowatt one in Germany they cover all of western Europe. Compared to the massive power needed for AM broadcasts these data signals don't need a lot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_teleswitch

The Luxembourg Effect can be heard very clearly on 162 at present. At night I can hear Radio 4 clearly and the Dutch receiver has 234 coming in very strong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxemburg%E2%80%93Gorky_effect

I get good signals at night from Romania 153, Iceland 189/207, Poland 225 and a weak one from Czechia 270.

burnsey1987

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There is another signal transmitted along with Radio 4 on 198 to regulate electricity meters. The time signal on 60 kHz is only 15 kilowatts and this is received by all the radio controlled timepieces in the UK and Ireland. Along with the 50 kilowatt one in Germany they cover all of western Europe. Compared to the massive power needed for AM broadcasts these data signals don't need a lot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_teleswitch

The Luxembourg Effect can be heard very clearly on 162 at present. At night I can hear Radio 4 clearly and the Dutch receiver has 234 coming in very strong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxemburg%E2%80%93Gorky_effect

I get good signals at night from Romania 153, Iceland 189/207, Poland 225 and a weak one from Czechia 270.

Yes, I remember reading something about 198 also carrying data for electricity meters.

I know that the time signals use some form of FSK which has greater noise immunity than AM broadcasting, hence less of a power requirement.

I can hear Romania some of the time in Limerick. Can't hear anything from Iceland. Rarely can I get Poland. Haven't picked up Topolna at all since they turned down the power to 50 kW, CZ has gone and changed its name again??? Sometimes I can hear Denmark on 243, but that station is only broadcasting intermittently anymore. Don't know how much longer it will stay there

Hotblack Desiato

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd say when some hack brings the internet down for days or far longer or at least severely disrupts it that we will finally realise the foolishness of relying on the he internet for as much as we do.

It can't happen I hear ye all say, well why do people believe that the internet is indestructible?

Those of us old enough to remember Bás Beatha or Protect And Survive are wondering what on earth is going to happen in a national catastrophe. Fat lot of good going into your refuge room and listening to your radio for further instructions is going to do you if we've gone totally over to FM, never mind DAB or online 'broadcasting'. You need to be able to cover most or all of an entire country from a single site. Even FM is no good for this.

burnsey1987

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Those of us old enough to remember Bás Beatha or Protect And Survive are wondering what on earth is going to happen in a national catastrophe. Fat lot of good going into your refuge room and listening to your radio for further instructions is going to do you if we've gone totally over to FM, never mind DAB or online 'broadcasting'. You need to be able to cover most or all of an entire country from a single site. Even FM is no good for this.

If everyone took on board the advice given by the "Protect and Survive" campaign and there actually was a nuclear blast, they might have survived for a few seconds longer than those who where out in the open when the bomb hit. Ever seen "Threads" from 1984?

Hotblack Desiato

Yes I've seen it. You're wrong by the way. In a large city there could be millions of people living far enough away from a nuclear burst to survive if precautions were taken, but who would die if not. Actually if you've watched Threads you should know there were many millions of survivors of the attack, it was the disruption to society and infrastructure (because we're pretty much dependent upon oil to feed ourselves) which eventually killed them.

Anyway. There are many possible catastrophic scenarios which are non-nuclear and eminently survivable, given the ability to get information to people as needed. A small cheap battery radio taking a couple of AA cells which can last for weeks is ideal for this. Many of these no longer have LW but they all have FM and most of them have MW. FM can't cover the country from one site in an emergency but MW can. We should have maintained Tullamore on national security grounds.

burnsey1987

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Yes I've seen it. You're wrong by the way. In a large city there could be millions of people living far enough away from a nuclear burst to survive if precautions were taken, but who would die if not. Actually if you've watched Threads you should know there were many millions of survivors of the attack, it was the disruption to society and infrastructure (because we're pretty much dependent upon oil to feed ourselves) which eventually killed them.

This is dragging it way off topic but you're correct. We were driving through Portsmouth last year, two people in the car said that this is the place to be WW3 kicks off, I said wrong, we'd be better off in the cousin's place in North Wales where there's nothing of any great strategic importance. If there was a nuclear holocaust, listening to the radio and awaiting pre-recorded instructions from the government wouldn't be too high on my list of priorities...

The Parish Priest.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Yes I've seen it. You're wrong by the way. In a large city there could be millions of people living far enough away from a nuclear burst to survive if precautions were taken, but who would die if not. Actually if you've watched Threads you should know there were many millions of survivors of the attack, it was the disruption to society and infrastructure (because we're pretty much dependent upon oil to feed ourselves) which eventually killed them.

Anyway. There are many possible catastrophic scenarios which are non-nuclear and eminently survivable, given the ability to get information to people as needed. A small cheap battery radio taking a couple of AA cells which can last for weeks is ideal for this. Many of these no longer have LW but they all have FM and most of them have MW. FM can't cover the country from one site in an emergency but MW can. We should have maintained Tullamore on national security grounds.

But the tullamore mast is being maintained

burnsey1987

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Yes I've seen it. You're wrong by the way. In a large city there could be millions of people living far enough away from a nuclear burst to survive if precautions were taken, but who would die if not. Actually if you've watched Threads you should know there were many millions of survivors of the attack, it was the disruption to society and infrastructure (because we're pretty much dependent upon oil to feed ourselves) which eventually killed them.

Anyway. There are many possible catastrophic scenarios which are non-nuclear and eminently survivable, given the ability to get information to people as needed. A small cheap battery radio taking a couple of AA cells which can last for weeks is ideal for this. Many of these no longer have LW but they all have FM and most of them have MW. FM can't cover the country from one site in an emergency but MW can. We should have maintained Tullamore on national security grounds.

Get rid of Irish and Religion from the school syllabus and teach the kids to build crystal sets???

Hotblack Desiato

The Parish Priest. wrote: »

But the tullamore mast is being maintained

So someone (RTE? or central govt funds?) is paying to maintain a MW mast and transmitter purely for emergency use? so why did they move their AM service from MW to LW? I thought the point of that was to let Tullamore rot. Wouldn't it have made more sense to keep Radio 1 on MW and shut down 252 which was originally only a commercial venture anyway.

Edit: I had fun as a kid making 'crystal' radios with a single diode and no amplification, with a few yards of wire aerial you could receive several stations then, a great practical thing to make and a real learning opportunity. I doubt any kids are going to make their own FM receiver never mind DAB :rolleyes:

The Parish Priest.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

So someone (RTE? or central govt funds?) is paying to maintain a MW mast and transmitter purely for emergency use? so why did they move their AM service from MW to LW? I thought the point of that was to let Tullamore rot. Wouldn't it have made more sense to keep Radio 1 on MW and shut down 252 which was originally only a commercial venture anyway.

Edit: I had fun as a kid making 'crystal' radios with a single diode and no amplification, with a few yards of wire aerial you could receive several stations then, a great practical thing to make and a real learning opportunity. I doubt any kids are going to make their own FM receiver never mind DAB :rolleyes:

From what I've heard it only costs 2rn a few hundred euro to maintain the mast each year with lights, rigging, painting

I've no issues with Religion but schools need to start teaching more practical things like building electronic kits and programming rather than mostly reading books and learning off Sh1t of no importance. Next is reading writing and maths and languages.

There was nothing I was more fascinated with in School as I was in Electronics but no one shared my interest and no one was repairing CRT TV's at the age of 15 that I knew. I received no encouragement or direction to nurture this ability. All people were interested in was the GAA and that's the only encouragement Children get, the GAA is the be all and end all in this country but Children with the ability for science, programming, electronics are left with no encouragement and/or direction and also the internet and social media is making complete retards out of Children today and not just Children/Teenagers.

Sam Russell

Deleted User wrote: »

I've no issues with Religion but schools need to start teaching more practical things like building electronic kits and programming rather than mostly reading books and learning off Sh1t of no importance. Next is reading writing and maths and languages.

There was nothing I was more fascinated with in School as I was in Electronics but no one shared my interest and no one was repairing CRT TV's at the age of 15 that I knew. I received no encouragement or direction to nurture this ability. All people were interested in was the GAA and that's the only encouragement Children get, the GAA is the be all and end all in this country but Children with the ability for science, programming, electronics are left with no encouragement and/or direction and also the internet and social media is making complete retards out of Children today and not just Children/Teenagers.

The Raspberry Pi project was started because undergraduate candidates were turning up for interview at Cambridge with no programming experience. So the R Pi was designed as a low cost programmable computer (cost is about €30) and given to the interviewees and asked to come back in three months and relate what they had done with it. The Coder Dojo project is also intent on getting kids to get into computer coding.

All good stuff but off topic. Sorry.

Yeah all good but we shouldn't concentrate solely on IT. Children should be guided based on their aptitude. This is where the current education system fails miserably, a one system for all and some bright Children who are not the best academically can really do well if lead in a way that reflects their abilities , the Junior and leaving cert is a joke. In fact you can bypass the whole system , learn to read and write at home, go on some courses and do pretty well and start earning money rather than get into debt in college where a lot of students graduate and end up in careers that they had not studied for what so ever !

Former Former

This thread has gone completely and utterly mental.

Unsubscribe.

marno21

252 getting absolutely hammered by Algeria in Peterborough tonight: http://cambs-sdr.no-ip.org:8901

Ah sure as long as it's not the telly no one cares........

burnsey1987

marno21 wrote: »

252 getting absolutely hammered by Algeria in Peterborough tonight: http://cambs-sdr.no-ip.org:8901

Same here in Limerick...

Elmo

ON RE in schools did no else go to second level that did woodwork, technology, tech graphics, engineering??? But way off topic.

dxhound2005

marno21 wrote: »

252 getting absolutely hammered by Algeria in Peterborough tonight: http://cambs-sdr.no-ip.org:8901

Not doing too bad tonight at 9.30 pm. And RTE is dominating Algeria on this other receiver in England.

http://grimsbysdr.ddns.net:8073/

It has a lot to do with the receiving antenna. 50 miles away from Summerhill I can peak RTE at 40 dB over S9 or I can completely null it out and hear only Algeria. I have a Wellbrook loop antenna on a rotator outside.

Oscarziggy

Not a squeak from Algeria tonight on the Wales coast at 10:50pm unless they close down ?
Regards