The future of RTE Radio 1 LW

They were moaning today about loosing money so I bet LW 252 will be gone a lot sooner than later and 567 and 252 equipment dismantled and sold. Chinese are buying transmitters like they're going out of fashion.

Like all the land RTE are selling, it's a short term fix to a much larger problem and that is RTE as a company are dying and they now need to start researching what people want and not what they think we want. they need to think long term and not look for quick ineffective solutions.

Oscarziggy

Interesting read

---

https://www.dfa.ie/media/dfa/alldfawebsitemedia/newspress/publications/ministersbrief-june2017/11--FINAL-Longwave.pdf
Regards

Antenna

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The NI Minimux was the result of a deal in conjunction with the digital switchover. There were no analogue transmitters before that.

actually there was one - a low power analogue UHF transmitter for TG4 to Belfast went on air in 2005

Elmo

Oscarziggy wrote: »

Interesting read

---

https://www.dfa.ie/media/dfa/alldfawebsitemedia/newspress/publications/ministersbrief-june2017/11--FINAL-Longwave.pdf
Regards

So as soon as I read ultimate it is a decision for RTÉ I stopped reading. It must first go to the Dept of Comms under the act

William99

No wonder the minister has been briefed, I heard a couple of "save 252" campaigners on a local radio station recently and they both almost had an orgasm about drm.

Antenna

William99 wrote: »

on a local radio station recently

Why post extremely vague postings like this, if this did happen? What local radio station / where?

DRM is pretty good but needs a better signal, analogue is hampered by RFI but most people don't understand that to get good Lw, Mw and Sw reception you need to get the antenna outdoors just like with TV.

Unfortunately there are no commercially available radios that decode DRM but to hear crystal clear radio from India is amazing, I've listened on my SDR and my Tecsun S2000 has a digital out for a decoder I must try out.

Charles Babbage

Digifriendly wrote: »

Absolutely spot on. As most of areas in East of NI outside of Belfast are well covered by CC on 87.8 FM, putting RTE1 FM on either Black Mountain or Carnmoney or both as they do with the NIMM for TV reception of RTE1/2 and TG4 would do the trick.

Is RTE 1 now on DAB in Belfast? I was surprised to pick it up there. Not a squeak from RTE Gold though.

kazoo106

For reference purposes, here is a video recorded this morning of both RTE Radio 1 on 87.8 and Spirit Radio on 549kHz in Belfast.
I probably should have tuned them in reverse as RTE gets progressively worse at the end of the westlink !
https://vimeo.com/227068707

Also note the amount of cars with white rear plates

Digifriendly

kazoo106 wrote: »

For reference purposes, here is a video recorded this morning of both RTE Radio 1 on 87.8 and Spirit Radio on 549kHz in Belfast.
I probably should have tuned them in reverse as RTE gets progressively worse at the end of the westlink !
https://vimeo.com/227068707

Also note the amount of cars with white rear plates

I'm actually surprised RTE1FM is as clear as it sounds on that video but it really fades out when under any bridge or flyover. Comparison with Spirit radio is fascinating since it is a niche station. If only RTE1 had its slot in the AM band!

marno21

Digifriendly wrote: »

I'm actually surprised RTE1FM is as clear as it sounds on that video but it really fades out when under any bridge or flyover. Comparison with Spirit radio is fascinating since it is a niche station. If only RTE1 had its slot in the AM band!

In fairness its not holding up too bad given how depressed some of the Westlink is at the underpasses, I was expecting a lot worse.

It would've been a nice complement to Clermont Carn had RTE set up a medium wave relay in Monaghan back in the day. Would've likely helped with blackspots in the north midlands and Donegal too.

Given the amount of pirates operating in the north Monaghan area, especially the likes of Kiss 103.7 and the high power ones, it's surprising it wasn't done also by RTE.

Oscarziggy

Slightly off topic but relevant ---- someone has posted on another group ...
Quote :"1000 Goodmans GMR1888DAB radios have bee purchased by RTE to give to "vulnerable" lw 252 listeners in GB"
I can't find any reference to this and a link to the source has been asked for but nothing produced.
Anyone here know anything about it please?
Regards

School Socks

I think it would be interesting to make a radio documentary called the story of 252, it would be interesting to hear from people involved in setting up Atlantic and also an in-depth look at how teamtalk came and went, it could also discuss post 2002 and whether any other options were considered apart from a relay of r1.. Could the full story be told in an hour tho ? I would want it to be comprehensive and not leave out teamtalk for example.

winston_1

dxhound2005 wrote: »

EndaOKane wrote: »

This is beyond belief. The system has a new solid state Tx. Has been successfully tested delivering an FM like digital signal across the UK to Germany. We know that today it covers from the coast of Norway down as far as the Bay of Biscay. Just imagine how the long distance hauliers would miss the link with home across two channels.
Solid state AM transmitters today are very efficient as opposed to the old valve type. LW252 is about 70% efficient.
This is and attempt to "manage" listeners on the the failed DAB system while ignoring DRM now being launched across India and under test in Brazil. N.Ireland will loose out and this pull back of service is against the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement.

As far as I know the Good Friday Agreement covered TV services only, could be wrong.  I doubt anyway whether it specified that either administration had to maintain a medium wave or long wave service.  252 is up against the 750/1500 KW transmitter in Algeria.  If you listen to the receiver in Holland RTE is much stronger, with Algeria in the background but I think you exaggerate its coverage beyond that, certainly during the day.

The Guardian article said:

Part of the problem is that pumping the signal so that it can cover England, Wales and lowland Scotland requires 500 kilowatts of power, far more - according to the BBC - than other long wave transmitters, which makes the kit both unique and expensive.
They were lying or the BBC were.
Anyway nothing to do with the BBC. They no longer own or operate transmitters.

Joe Duffy.

I say keep lw, promote and utilise it more. Close Dab

Oscarziggy

Joe Duffy. wrote: »

I say keep lw, promote and utilise it more. Close Dab

Sadly on this side of the Irish Sea this guy has a different idea --

http://www.a516digital.com/2017/09/minister-calls-for-end-of-analogue-only.html

Regards

Sam Russell

Oscarziggy wrote: »

Sadly on this side of the Irish Sea this guy has a different idea --

http://www.a516digital.com/2017/09/minister-calls-for-end-of-analogue-only.html

Regards

I fail to understand the logic of banning analogue radios. FM is ideally suited to radio, while DAB is not. DAB suffers from the digital cliff while analogue gently fades away. Now a lot of radio is listened to in cars, which travel through signal areas, and DAB cannot cope with it very well.

I wonder how many DAB radios actually tune into DAB stations?

Gerry Wicklow

The UK equivalent of the Dublin 4 mentality. :rolleyes:
"...I have no problem in my BMW or with my gigabit broadband..."

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

I wonder how many DAB radios actually tune into DAB stations?

A lot more would if the commercial stations were on there, I wake up to Morning Ireland on 48kbps DAB+ here in Co Limerick but if I want to listen to Newstalk I have to switch back to FM.

Which reminds me, from the Radio forum

More Music wrote: »

Nearly all radio stations under the IBI umbrella along with RTE stations will be available on a smallscale DAB minimux trial in Dublin very soon.

From Aertel 169, Kippure DAB off-air all this week, probably related to above

RTÉNL Technical Information

Service Notification:
2rn - Kippure, Co. Wicklow

Due to essential engineering work, the DAB service from our Kippure transmitter will be subject to complete outage in transmission from 25th to 29th September 2017.

This work will affect all, DAB Radio services from this transmitter.

2rn apologise for any inconvenience caused by this necessary work.

I wouldn't mind too much if the used DAB+ for better quality but most Irish stations on DAB are low quality.

Digital radio on LW/MW/SW though can have real benefits.

I have a radio capable of picking up DRM/DRM+ and I got to tell you that it's amazing listening to SW with no hissing crackling or buzzing all in an area of high radio interference , and yes, while digital Shortwave needs a good signal it is simply amazing hearing no buzzing and noise associated with modern electronic interference.

It's amazing listening to the BBC World Service and having Journaling , which gives you text and ability to select different streams.....

As always an external antenna makes a huge difference to LW/MW/SW reception as it does in most cases with TV. How well you might say ? well listen to my WebSDR with external antenna setup in a tree at the side of the house. It will give you a good idea with proper antenna what you can receive .

http://emeraldsdr.ddns.net:8073/

Sam Russell

I can receive RTE Radio 1 on FM, DAB, DAB+, Saorview, Satellite Freesat, and Web radio. Saorview is only available on the TV. No radio gets Saorview radio channels that I am aware of.

I only listen on FM. Why, because I also listen to Newstalk sometimes and that is only on FM and radios are only designed to use bands not stations. In other words, the pre tune buttons on most/all radios only operate on the band selected so I cannot have
[button 1] RTE 1 (DAB+) [2] RTE 2 FM [3] Lyrric DAB [4] BBC R4 WEB [5] Newstalk FM.
They just work on the band selected.

Also, if one radio is tuned to FM and another is tuned to DAB, there is a second or so delay with DAB behind FM - I have not tried with the other possibilities because life is too short.

FM is ideal whether the signal is very strong, or medium strength. Poor signal is better than nothing which is what DAB will give you.

Joe Duffy.

Oscarziggy wrote: »

Sadly on this side of the Irish Sea this guy has a different idea --

http://www.a516digital.com/2017/09/minister-calls-for-end-of-analogue-only.html

Regards

The brits have been talking about setting a date for switching off analogue radio for about 15 years yet offcom is still doling out new medium wave licences

There are many MW listeners in the U.K, think about it, the FM spectrum is full and it's full here too so why not use LW/MW ?

burnsey1987

Joe Duffy. wrote: »

The brits have been talking about setting a date for switching off analogue radio for about 15 years yet offcom is still doling out new medium wave licences

Most of these are very low power. Most of the remaining BBC locals will be leaving MW in the new year. Radio Wales will be expanding its FM and DAB coverage network over the next two years as about 10 percent of the population have neither. This would eventually render the Washford 882 MW transmitter surplus to requirements, in which case I will need to buy a TV and FTA satellite receiver kit to stay tuned.

Having said that, SportsTalk intend to continue on MW beyond 2020. That being the case I can't see 5 Live on MW going anywhere either due to the possibility of losing a large percentage of their audience, especially those who like to listen to sport while on the move.

Absolute Radio have not renewed their MW licence which expires next year. Nothing much has been said about it, but they don't advertise the fact that they broadcast on MW anywhere at all so that could be gone too quite soon...

burnsey1987

Deleted User wrote: »

There are many MW listeners in the U.K, think about it, the FM spectrum is full and it's full here too so why not use LW/MW ?

Agreed. Sure Spirit (not that I listen to it) covers most of the country with only 25 kW or so. Plenty of room on the MW band for content that doesn't require the audio quality of FM.

With a good signal there's not much wrong with MW quality ,. I'd actually prefer the sound on MW than highly compressed crap digital streams.

Sam Russell

Deleted User wrote: »

With a good signal there's not much wrong with MW quality ,. I'd actually prefer the sound on MW than highly compressed crap digital streams.

MW lacks top, only going to 9k at most - OK for voice but not much else. FM gives 15k and stereo - good enough for Lyrric.

DAB gives whatever the bean counters consider is OK given that bandwidth is charged for per megabyte.

The enemy of all radio is the modern love of volume compression so no quiet passages anymore just volume up high. OK for pop and adverts, but not for much else.

Hotblack Desiato

burnsey1987 wrote: »

Spirit

A political party wouldn't be allowed to set up its own station to uncritically promote its ideology.

Beats me how a religion is allowed to do the same thing.

Laughable from the BAI considering the 'balance' requirements the mainstream broadcasters are saddled with during referendum campaigns in particular.

burnsey1987

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

A political party wouldn't be allowed to set up its own station to uncritically promote its ideology.

Beats me how a religion is allowed to do the same thing.

Laughable from the BAI considering the 'balance' requirements the mainstream broadcasters are saddled with during referendum campaigns in particular.

Slightly off topic, aoplogies mods but didn't one particularly notorious pirate station operator in Dublin (you all know the one I'm referring to) set up a transmitter at FF HQ prior to the 1982 election. FF then denied the existance of any such station.

I'd be very surprised if there wasn't something similar happening with the various referenda today...

Joe Duffy.

Sam Russell wrote: »

MW lacks top, only going to 9k at most - OK for voice but not much else. FM gives 15k and stereo - good enough for Lyrric.

DAB gives whatever the bean counters consider is OK given that bandwidth is charged for per megabyte.

The enemy of all radio is the modern love of volume compression so no quiet passages anymore just volume up high. OK for pop and adverts, but not for much else.

I thought it was absolutely ridiculous a few years ago when I tuned into virgin radio 80s and it was broadcasting on dab in the lowest quality mono possible, ffs Atlantic 252 sounded much better on lw in 1989, yet the suits in the uk call that progress.

Sam Russell

Sam Russell wrote: »

MW lacks top, only going to 9k at most - OK for voice but not much else. FM gives 15k and stereo - good enough for Lyrric.

DAB gives whatever the bean counters consider is OK given that bandwidth is charged for per megabyte.

The enemy of all radio is the modern love of volume compression so no quiet passages anymore just volume up high. OK for pop and adverts, but not for much else.

What's I'm saying is that I much prefer a good MW station to the highly compressed crap you hear on digital.

Joe Duffy.

Joe Duffy. wrote: »

I thought it was absolutely ridiculous a few years ago when I tuned into virgin radio 80s and it was broadcasting on dab in the lowest quality mono possible, ffs Atlantic 252 sounded much better on lw in 1989, yet the suits in the uk call that progress.

Everything today is down to cost.

The powers that be want all MW/Lw/FM done away with and we receiving absolutely all media we receive through the internet they don't even want DAB because you have to set up a network for this.

Joe Duffy.

Has there been progress to the proposal to change the law in the UK to allow RTE on small-scale dab+ ?

The Cush

Joe Duffy. wrote: »

Has there been progress to the proposal to change the law in the UK to allow RTE on small-scale dab+ ?

Still awaiting the outcome of the consultation.

Gerry Wicklow

Deleted User wrote: »

Everything today is down to cost.

The powers that be want all MW/Lw/FM done away with and we receiving absolutely all media we receive through the internet they don't even want DAB because you have to set up a network for this.

All well and good if you live within the M50. I have enough trouble getting a usable FM signal so DAB is out of the running. As for broadband... Oh yeah FG promise it's coming so it must be true. Just like Saorview Connect. Oh hang on that needs BB too. :rolleyes:

Hotblack Desiato

Deleted User wrote: »

Everything today is down to cost.

The powers that be want all MW/Lw/FM done away with and we receiving absolutely all media we receive through the internet they don't even want DAB because you have to set up a network for this.

Why? It's not like those bands are really any use for anything else.

The clearance of the top end of the TV UHF band I can understand - kind of - but they'll soon reach the point where the frequency is too low and the 'cells' too large to be useful for anything other than traditional broadcasting.

Unless of course the idea is to move all communications to a medium which can be instantaneously shut down or controlled by the powers that be as they see fit. That would have been hard to do in the days when AM listening and AM pirates were popular.

Transmitters cost money to operate, today it's not about informing people, it's all down to making money.

The issue with complete analogue switch off is that if something happens the internet what do you do ? DAB is a non runner. We already got LW/MW/SW and FM radios everywhere, it works.

They're hell bent on getting rid of it though so I wouldn't expect it to be on air for more than another year and I bet the site , transmitter, antenna will be dismantled, seemingly the locals are afraid of emissions from it , only in Ireland , and this might give them a good excuse to finally turn the whole site back into farmland. In reality cosmic radiation is probably millions of times worse and obviously that from the Sun, actually it is because we're talking a whole different type of radiation.

It would be great if someone took an interest in this transmitter site and used it to it's full potential that and the old MW site rather than have them go to waste.

Oscarziggy

Spotted this -
http://www.thejournal.ie/manchester-longwave-radio-3645057-Oct2017/
Regards

Joe Duffy.

Oscarziggy wrote: »

Spotted this -
http://www.thejournal.ie/manchester-longwave-radio-3645057-Oct2017/
Regards

I'm not sure if the constant drum banging about "elderly" people is a good idea

burnsey1987

RTE Radios 1, 2 & Lyric are available on Freesat. If only RTE 1 could also be included on Freeview. This would be a workable solution if there was no other option than to shut down LW, considering that just about every household in the UK these days has a Freeview TV...

In fairness it’s not right to expect people to have the tv on to listen to the radio. It’s far easier to carry a radio around from room to room and listen to radio in the car. Though few have LW in the car these days and probably another reason RTÉ went with LW because it would reduce the capability for people to listen.

burnsey1987

Deleted User wrote: »

In fairness it’s not right to expect people to have the tv on to listen to the radio. It’s far easier to carry a radio around from room to room and listen to radio in the car. Though few have LW in the car these days and probably another reason RTÉ went with LW because it would reduce the capability for people to listen.

I agree with you on that one, but being realistic, I think (and I hope that I will be proved wrong) that at this stage we'd be very much looking at a compromise rather than a full solution. Putting RTE R1 on Freeview seems to me like a practical option, if not the most ideal arrangement.

As for listening on the move, there is a very real possibility that R5 Live could change its format and go digital only. If things were to play out that way, just consider how many people such as drivers, tradesmen, reps and so on who could be cut off?

Johnboy1951

burnsey1987 wrote: »

RTE Radios 1, 2 & Lyric are available on Freesat. If only RTE 1 could also be included on Freeview. This would be a workable solution if there was no other option than to shut down LW, considering that just about every household in the UK these days has a Freeview TV...

Are they not also available as internet stations?
http://www.ieradio.org/
What is this fixation about LW when a much better service is available?

I can of course also receive the radio channels from the Astra satellite (as well as Saorview in Ireland).

That Manchester campaign looks like nonsense to me.

Gerry Wicklow

If they can afford to mount a campaign and send a delegation, they should be able to afford newer reception technology.

Digifriendly

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

burnsey1987 wrote: »

RTE Radios 1, 2 & Lyric are available on Freesat. If only RTE 1 could also be included on Freeview. This would be a workable solution if there was no other option than to shut down LW, considering that just about every household in the UK these days has a Freeview TV...

Are they not also available as internet stations?
http://www.ieradio.org/
What is this fixation about LW when a much better service is available?

I can of course also receive the radio channels from the Astra satellite (as well as Saorview in Ireland).

That Manchester campaign looks like nonsense to me.

I think this is a bit harsh. Many elderly are not au fait with the internet and are used to easy access via LW on their portable and car radios.

Johnboy1951

Digifriendly wrote: »

I think this is a bit harsh. Many elderly are not au fait with the internet and are used to easy access via LW on their portable and car radios.

The same applies to many not so elderly!

If they can tune a LW radio they can equally well tune a radio station on an alternate means of receiving the channel.

This is the same 'elderly' generation who invented all this gear!

How many of that ~1,000 signatories will not have internet or Astra reception? Very few I suspect!

Digifriendly

Internet can be unreliable and not everyone has satellite.

Johnboy1951

Digifriendly wrote: »

Internet can be unreliable and not everyone has satellite.

The reliability of the Manchester (or other area) internet is hardly the concern of RTÉ!