The future of RTE Radio 1 LW

Johnboy1951

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah here now, you can't expect the majority of the public to mess with linux sat boxes to listen to radio, that's just madness.

Dunno why you mention 'linux boxes' as if they were some sort of magic or impossible devices for an ordinary person to own and use.

In fact I did not have such a box in mind when I wrote that.

It's radio pure and simple either shut of LW 252 and that be the end of it if that's what RTE want or make it simple and practical for people to receive it. Yea sure there are a lot of us who can use internet and apps etc but a lot of people can't or don't want to.

You really see that as some reason for a decision?

Provide the signal in whatever form makes sense and if people want it they will arrange to receive it.

Just because someone claims a few aged people want to keep a LW service is no reason to comply.

burnsey1987

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah here now, you can't expect the majority of the public to mess with linux sat boxes to listen to radio, that's just madness.

It's radio pure and simple either shut of LW 252 and that be the end of it if that's what RTE want or make it simple and practical for people to receive it. Yea sure there are a lot of us who can use internet and apps etc but a lot of people can't or don't want to.

In all fairness that's hardly RTE's problem

Oscarziggy

I don't think people are going to buy yet another format of radio receiver in the form of DRM.

Regards

Johnboy1951

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Just because someone claims a few aged people want to keep a LW service is no reason to comply.

Aged People :eek:

Johnboy1951

Deleted User wrote: »

Aged People :eek:

You have a better suggestion?

elperello

burnsey1987 wrote: »

In all fairness that's hardly RTE's problem

It's not just an RTE problem.
These people who are resisting the closure of LW have been failed by this country for years.
They deserve better from us all.

burnsey1987

elperello wrote: »

It's not just an RTE problem.
These people who are resisting the closure of LW have been failed by this country for years.
They deserve better from us all.

Exactly, hence why I suggested making RTE R1 available on Freeview and DAB so that these people won't be cut off from home when LW finally closes

elperello

burnsey1987 wrote: »

Exactly, hence why I suggested making RTE R1 available on Freeview and DAB so that these people won't be cut off from home when LW finally closes

If they are happy with that it could be a solution.

We all agree that DAB is the only real solution and DAB+ radio can be got cheap.

The real question is what it will cost us ? and what would the real saving be over LW ?

Digital transmissions in the U.K tend to be of much higher quality also, DAB transmissions here are shockingly bad and coverage is poor so they need to improve FM reception in areas where FM is poor in Ireland.

kazoo106

64k mono? Quality?

@128

64K ? depends whether it's AAC+ or mp3 , most Irish digital transmissions are 56-128 Kbps Mp3 be it DAB or Internet streaming. I think the highest quality internet stream I found from RTE was Lyric FM @128 Kbps Mp3.

I think all Irish broadcasts are on old DAB still too and not DAB+

BBC stream 320 Kbps AAC+.

LW listeners would be amazed listening to Joe Duffy with that kind of quality lol.

For talk radio 64 Kbps AAC+ is just about acceptable. Better than Lw/Mw for sure but the difference between a good signal LW/MW broadcast is you can't hear the horrid compression artefacts associated with high compressed streams.

I wish we could have BBC streams on DAB here too would be handy for the car I miss Am in my old car this one has DAB+/FM only.

UK DAB is rubbish, some stations are even mono only. A lot of people report that the sound quality is worse than FM. The 320k streams are online only.

You're joking, seriously ?

Why are these companies so hell bent on giving us this new modern technology that has 0 benefit to us ?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

You're joking, seriously ?

Why are these companies so hell bent on giving us this new modern technology that has 0 benefit to us ?

I don't know what the figures are for DAB+ but for Eureka 147, 256k is recommended for good audio quality. The only station that gets anywhere near that is BBC Radio 3 (192k IIRC) because its listenership would not tolerate anything less.

Digital technology, same with TV, can be used to improve quality but in reality it's exploited by the bean counters to cram more in and reduce quality.

DAB offers more place to throw the ever increasing amount of crap stations to play even more crap pop music. FM bands are crowded which are also full of crap.

So I suppose in the end LW listeners wouldn't be too put off with DAB quality.

Karsini

Karsini wrote: »

I don't know what the figures are for DAB+ but for Eureka 147, 256k is recommended for good audio quality. The only station that gets anywhere near that is BBC Radio 3 (192k IIRC) because its listenership would not tolerate anything less.

Digital technology, same with TV, can be used to improve quality but in reality it's exploited by the bean counters to cram more in and reduce quality.

I'm nearly sure all of BBC's internet streams are 320 Kbps AAC+, they Geo block the high bitrate streams and give everyone else 128 kbps streams lol, hilarious.

I could live with 256 Kbps AAC+

People should listen to Radio Romania international on DRM, amazing listening to such quality on shortwave, better than our DAB streams ! But depends whether they use the total bandwidth for 2 streams or 1.

marno21

Standard DAB is mp2, not mp3. Even less quality than mp3 at an equivalent bitrate.

kazoo106

The highest bitrate on UK DAB is BBC Radio 3 - and I think that's 192k MP2

Don't confuse DAB with Internet streaming

Most of the crap on UK DAB is in 64k mono - no AAC - 1990's MP2 tech and it sounds HORRIBLE

Johnboy1951

Deleted User wrote: »

We all agree that DAB is the only real solution and DAB+ radio can be got cheap.

The real question is what it will cost us ? and what would the real saving be over LW ?

Digital transmissions in the U.K tend to be of much higher quality also, DAB transmissions here are shockingly bad and coverage is poor so they need to improve FM reception in areas where FM is poor in Ireland.

Solution for what problem?

To provide a service to some people in the UK who refuse to adopt alternate means of receiving the radio channels?
If the radio channels mean much to them they will adapt.

Schorpio

Deleted User wrote: »

I think all Irish broadcasts are on old DAB still too and not DAB+.

Just to pick this up - that's not true. Radio 1 and 2fm are available on both DAB and DAB+.

I know from flicking between the two that the '+' streams sound better to my ears, but I don't know what the bitrates are.

Also, from living in the UK, I can attest that the quality of the DAB for some stations is pretty rubbish - however, not to the point where I could noticeably hear any compression artifacts. The trade off it choice - with DAB in the UK you get MUCH more, with national stations on national DAB, some local variants on a regional multiplex, and the traditional town/county stations staying on FM.

The Cush

Schorpio wrote: »

Just to pick this up - that's not true. Radio 1 and 2fm are available on both DAB and DAB+.

I know from flicking between the two that the '+' streams sound better to my ears, but I don't know what the bitrates are.

48 (HE-AAC v2) and 64 kbps (HE-AAC v1) respectively, and I agree with you about the audio quality, perfectly OK to my ears too.

Comparing it to the German national DAB+ mux, most services are running at between 48 and 72 kbps with the 3 of the national services at 104 and 112 kbps, all HE-AAC v1.

Looking at the 3 UK national muxes, they are mostly running at 64-80 kbps MP2.

To determine the audio quality at low bitrates, listening tests were performed by the EBU (European Broadcasting Union) in 2003. For stereophonic audio, the listening tests show that

• at an audio bit rate of 48 kbps, HE-AAC offers good to excellent quality
• at an audio bit rate of 64 kbps it offers excellent quality

At the time of these tests, HE-AAC v2 was not yet available, but it can safely be assumed that its performance will be similar to or even better than that of HE-AAC.

kazoo106

kazoo106 wrote: »

The highest bitrate on UK DAB is BBC Radio 3 - and I think that's 192k MP2

Don't confuse DAB with Internet streaming

Most of the crap on UK DAB is in 64k mono - no AAC - 1990's MP2 tech and it sounds HORRIBLE

Wow that really is shocking !

I read earlier where a poster suggested Lw/Mw is dead, see my Web SDR screenshot below, this couldn't be further from the truth. As some stations close others open quickly as FM bands are crowded some stations flock to MW, MW is also crowded and far, far from dead.

Oscarziggy

Deleted User wrote: »

64K ? depends whether it's AAC+ or mp3 , most Irish digital transmissions are 56-128 Kbps Mp3 be it DAB or Internet streaming. I think the highest quality internet stream I found from RTE was Lyric FM @128 Kbps Mp3.

I think all Irish broadcasts are on old DAB still too and not DAB+

BBC stream 320 Kbps AAC+.

LW listeners would be amazed listening to Joe Duffy with that kind of quality lol.

For talk radio 64 Kbps AAC+ is just about acceptable. Better than Lw/Mw for sure but the difference between a good signal LW/MW broadcast is you can't hear the horrid compression artefacts associated with high compressed streams.

I wish we could have BBC streams on DAB here too would be handy for the car I miss Am in my old car this one has DAB+/FM only.

Mad_Lad -- that was a bad move - how are you going to listen to Manx Radio /Radio Caroline North at the week end if you are out and about with no access to 1368khz??
I'd look for a decent car with a proper radio in it --
Regards

The I3 has AM mode software locked because BMW felt the Electric powertrain was interfering with AM reception, I find this puzzling because AM reception in the Nissan Leaf EV was simply brilliant.

I can hack it when I get around to it. BMW are looking into ways to shield the electrics to reduce interference if it exists at all. I bet BMW thought that anyone who buys such a car would not be interested in AM but there was a lot of backlash against this particularly in the USA where AM will be alive for decades to come but even in Europe they fell under criticism for removing AM from the i3.

Another attempt at trying to force the public down a road they do not intend or never intended travelling, ( pun intended )

Oscarziggy

Another reason not to look into buying an electric car -- I'll run my diesel into the ground .
Interesting read for you here if you are into geek coding -http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/07/09/why-you-cant-get-am-radio-in-your-bmw-i3/

Anyway back to topic -- sorry.
Regards

Na it's not difficult to enable Am I just need some time to do it, possibly over Christmas.

Electrics are great, I used to be a die hard TDI fan but never again, the I3 is simply amazing !!! Come over and have a chat in the EV section of the motors forum.

Never Say Never Again

I remember years ago, a couple of hours a day of rte radio 1 was carried on shortwave in north america, this service was axed during rte cutbacks in the early 00s but there was zero fuss at the time despite all the irish ex pats in the usa and this being long before internet listening was in any way mainstream.

Hotblack Desiato

A couple of hours a day on shortwave?

There were probably more radio buffs listening to it just because they could, than Irish citizens or diaspora listening to it because they wanted to hear the content.

You'd be surprised at the reasons some people listen to shortwave, you can hear topics, discussions that are interesting that appeal to a lot more than the targeted audiences. Not everything is available on the internet.

Scanning mw/sw you can hear interesting stuff rather than the daunting task of scanning thousands of internet stations which would make it far less likely to find something you want/like.

Oscarziggy

Oscarziggy wrote: »

Another reason not to look into buying an electric car -- I'll run my diesel into the ground .
Interesting read for you here if you are into geek coding -http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/07/09/why-you-cant-get-am-radio-in-your-bmw-i3/

Anyway back to topic -- sorry.
Regards

Here you go, I enabled AM/SW only get 49 meter band but absolutely amazing to receive any SW in a car.... really delighted , it was a nice surprise. I have to do more testing, I haven't driven yet to see if the electric drivetrain effects it and whether it was a real reason BMW disabled it. Anyway see below screen shots.

Gerry Wicklow

Deleted User wrote: »

You'd be surprised at the reasons some people listen to shortwave, you can hear topics, discussions that are interesting that appeal to a lot more than the targeted audiences. Not everything is available on the internet.

Scanning mw/sw you can hear interesting stuff rather than the daunting task of scanning thousands of internet stations which would make it far less likely to find something you want/like.

Gawd that takes me back to a time in the '70s listening to Radio Moscow, not for their politics, but the totally different slant they put on world events. Quite often you would hear news stories there that somehow got missed by BBC et al.

Yes our Media is quiet controlled and we have no free speech and can't say anything without fear of getting sued. In other countries it's quiet different.

But I do like scanning shortwave to hear different goings on around the world from other cultures , news etc.

Unfortunately, too good to be true, AM/SW is dreadful once the motor kicks in, BMW say the carbon Fibre body is the reason for this interference that a metal body provides much better shielding, who knows ? but I can see why they disabled it, now the question remains whether they didn't bother to try shield it in the first place because originally BMW had stated that no one listens to MW these days anyway and they couldn't be more wrong and they realise this now and are working on making AM work. But I can bet BMW thought that anyone who buys such a car would only stream from phones and hardly use the FM radio never mind AM !

AM worked great in the Nissan Leaf though, I never tried it in my test drive in the Hyundai Ioniq EV only version.

Oscarziggy

More power to your elbow getting the radio to work on AM !!
We once had a Merc Sprinter that had the 49m band on it -- interesting .
Now for a Guinness !!
Regards

The Cush

The Cush wrote: »

UK's Department for Culture, Media & Sport published a consultation on Commercial radio deregulation about a month ago. The consultation outlines their proposals on how they intend to deregulate commercial radio.

Concentrating on one particular aspect in relation to this thread, the consultation seeks "views on the option of removing the current restriction on overseas-based radio services from being able to apply to Ofcom for a licence to be carried on UK DAB multiplexes, even where the station in question is willing to be subject to regulation by Ofcom".

The UK's DCMS has published the government's response to its Commercial radio deregulation consultation.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/commercial-radio-deregulation-consultation

In relation to the licensing of overseas radio services including RTÉ it says,

20. Section 245 of the Communications Act 2003 prevents overseas stations from being licensed by Ofcom and they cannot be carried on DAB. This includes overseas stations such as RTÉ and Radio Luxembourg that have been available to the UK since the 1930s. This question attracted a high number of responses overall including from members of the public who are frequent listeners of RTÉ. The majority of respondents were generally supportive of the proposal to license overseas service providers on UK DAB, however a small number opposed it because of concerns about the implications for content standards. One respondent was uncertain about the proposal

23. A further small number of respondents were in favour of limiting the proposal to Irish broadcasters only or solely RTÉ, and some were not in favour of licensing any overseas services on DAB at all.

24. There is clearly strong support for RTÉ and other Irish services to be allowed to broadcast on the UK’s digital radio platform with many respondents stressing that the RTÉ broadcast on longwave (a services that has been available in the UK since the 1930s) is of particular importance to members of the Irish community living in the UK.

25. We carefully noted the concerns that respondents raised in particular the importance of Ofcom being able to secure compliance and the need for Ofcom to have the powers to order multiplex operators to take down overseas services that did not comply with the requirements. We still intend to make changes to enable Ofcom to license overseas services on DAB but agree with the respondents that a more gradual approach to change is appropriate, starting with Republic of Ireland services with the capability to extend the arrangement to stations licensed in the EU and other countries. Before doing so we will need to consider protections and reciprocal arrangements may be needed to support this relaxation.

Question 2 - international licensing. We still intend to seek powers to enable Ofcom to license overseas services but want to secure this by adopting a more gradual approach. We will start with Republic of Ireland services and only consider extending this to stations licensed in the European Union (EU) and other countries after we have assessed what reciprocal arrangements may be needed to protect against the broadcast of harmful content;

Hotblack Desiato

I doubt RTE would have a problem with Ofcom regulation of content broadcast on UK DAB.

What about the NIMM TV multiplex? Does that put RTE1/2 and TG4 content under Ofcom regulation? Why doesn't the NIMM carry Radio 1?

The Cush

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

I doubt RTE would have a problem with Ofcom regulation of content broadcast on UK DAB.

I think it was mentioned previously that the service would be tailored for the UK, advertising etc.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

What about the NIMM TV multiplex? Does that put RTE1/2 and TG4 content under Ofcom regulation? Why doesn't the NIMM carry Radio 1?

The NImux licence - https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0030/98094/Northern-Ireland-Licence-incl-Variation-No3.pdf

Never came across the reasoning why RTÉ Radio 1 isn't carried but as regards Irish language services TG4/RnaG, this would fall under the Good Friday Agreement and the carriage costs associated with these are borne by the UK government.

marno21

Surprising RnaG wasn't carried from Divis in that case given that TG4 had a low power relay on Ch59 from Divis (which was so low on power compared to the BBC services that it was pretty much useless - and the fact that there was a high power relay of Channel 4 on Ch59 in Newcastle).

Mickey Mike

Ofcom are to relax the rules banning RTE Radio 1 from broadcasting on DAB Radio in the UK. It won't happen overnight, the UK government is to sort out rights issues.
www.a516digital.com

The Brits will love Joe Duffy, seriously though that show is a national embarrassment and should be axed.

burnsey1987

Deleted User wrote: »

The Brits will love Joe Duffy, seriously though that show is a national embarrassment and should be axed.

Agreed. Personally I think RTE1 in general is a pretty good station with a decent enough format to suit most tastes. But Liveline (aka Whineline as my mother calls it) really doesn't do its image any favours. Just imagine having something similar on BBC R4? Dear God...

kazoo106

FM also an issue for Donegal people driving to Dublin - especially around Omagh

burnsey1987

burnsey1987 wrote: »

Agreed. Personally I think RTE1 in general is a pretty good station with a decent enough format to suit most tastes. But Liveline (aka Whineline as my mother calls it) really doesn't do its image any favours. Just imagine having something similar on BBC R4? Dear God...

RTE R 1 could be a lot better if they still had Pat Kenny , axed Joe Duffy and Ryan Tubridy who is a complete disaster. And not a patch on Gay Byrne or Pat Kenny, he's utter useless and a pain to listen to. So apart from this RTE R 1 could be a lot better. It's strange though because I actually liked Tubridy on 2Fm on the morning Show back in the 00's, he's not suited for TV Talk shows or talk radio in general. Tubridy is the type of personality that he should be playing music off a play list or playing requests and he's actually do quiet well.

Check out these listenership stats for 2017.

http://www.bai.ie/en/media/sites/2/2017/10/October-2017.pdf

burnsey1987

Deleted User wrote: »

RTE R 1 could be a lot better if they still had Pat Kenny , axed Joe Duffy and Ryan Tubridy who is a complete disaster. And not a patch on Gay Byrne or Pat Kenny, he's utter useless and a pain to listen to. So apart from this RTE R 1 could be a lot better. It's strange though because I actually liked Tubridy on 2Fm on the morning Show back in the 00's, he's not suited for TV Talk shows or talk radio in general. Tubridy is the type of personality that he should be playing music off a play list or playing requests and he's actually do quiet well.

Check out these listenership stats for 2017.

http://www.bai.ie/en/media/sites/2/2017/10/October-2017.pdf

Duffy should have been given a golden handshake ages ago and taken his Liveline show out the gate with him. You're right yeh, Tubridy was passable on 2fm, not really suited to his current environment. Also agree with you on Pat Kenny, he was one of their best. But getting rid of Val Joyce was a travesty altogether...

Mickey Mike

Long Wave will close on the 30th of June 2019, I noticed RTE FM radio is not as good as it used to be, especially from the Conc on oir site in North Kerry. Eventually RTE will close FM transmitters as well.

Oh Poor Val, what a Voice. One of the most relaxing amazing voices ever ! I used to listen to him on my Summer holidays on my little Sony Walkman back in the 90's.

What happened Val again, didn't he fall ill or something ? I believe it was talked about here several pages back but I forget.

Mickey Mike

Mickey Mike wrote: »

Long Wave will close on the 30th of June 2019, I noticed RTE FM radio is not as good as it used to be, especially from the Conc on oir site in North Kerry. Eventually RTE will close FM transmitters as well.

Why end FM ? what's the advantage to the Public ?

burnsey1987

Mickey Mike wrote: »

Long Wave will close on the 30th of June 2019, I noticed RTE FM radio is not as good as it used to be, especially from the Conc on oir site in North Kerry. Eventually RTE will close FM transmitters as well.

May happen eventually but not for a good while yet. Bearing in mind that RTE is a public service broadcaster and has a requirement to provide as close to universal coverage as is reasonably practicable. Their current DAB network, needless to say, does not fit that definition. In much the same way that BBC won't be permitted to close the Radio Wales MW transmitters until its current coverage footprint (not including people listening in overspill areas) is matched by FM and/or DAB.

burnsey1987

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh Poor Val, what a Voice. One of the most relaxing amazing voices ever ! I used to listen to him on my Summer holidays on my little Sony Walkman back in the 90's.

What happened Val again, didn't he fall ill or something ? I believe it was talked about here several pages back but I forget.

Fact!!!

No as far as I can recall he was axed with very little warning. Can't remember the exact reason why...