The future of RTE Radio 1 LW

EndaOKane

I agree re. Good Friday Agreement - I mean that it contradicts the spirit of the Agreement and statements at the close of MW.

New TransRadio 300kW Transmitter installed spring 2007 (first outside of Germany)

Order details available on TransRadio site.

August 2007 Test of Digital (DRM) on LW 252kHz as received both in London and Muenster Germany - audio files :

Emigrant Advice Network have audio recordings of these tests under "radio"

Yes R.Algerie are installing a new DRM Transmitter like india with its 140+ installations some with powers of 1000kW meaning that finally affordable receivers will hit the market as promoted at Media Show Amsterdam recently.

Enda

Cork_chick_94

RTE are now pretending this was set up as a fill in service for FM black spots in ireland, when infact they were advertising it as a service for britain and beyond a few years ago.

Fuzzy Clam

EndaOKane wrote: »

............... meaning that finally affordable receivers will hit the market as promoted at Media Show Amsterdam recently.

Enda

How many times have I heard that over the last 10+ years;)

Sam Russell

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Was it just a preset?
Both my car radios have factory presets for 252. Station names included, although in my case they read Atlantic, Shows how old my cars are:eek:

Yes it was a preset, but it was the one in use.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

[Deleted User]

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Not going to happen. The electric boards use the signal from 198 KHz to switch domestic electricity meters.

I'm sure they could still transmit the switching signals without having to transmit the audio though? Could probably turn down the TX power in that case too. Or transmit it from somewhere else.

Cork_chick_94

I wonder might the transmitter end up in Africa or india ?

Fuzzy Clam

Cork_chick_94 wrote: »

I wonder might the transmitter end up in Africa or india ?

Well, rumour has it that there is a new client for 252 LW.

PukkaStukka

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Well, rumour has it that there is a new client for 252 LW.

Here or abroad?

Fuzzy Clam

PukkaStukka wrote: »

Here or abroad?

I dont know. I have an inkling that it may be a UK based operation who want to use the facility here to broadcast to the UK. Might be total nonsense. There is one name that comes to mind that may be involved but I dont want to say in case Im wrong.

Cork_chick_94

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

I dont know. I have an inkling that it may be a UK based operation who want to use the facility here to broadcast to the UK. Might be total nonsense. There is one name that comes to mind that may be involved but I dont want to say in case Im wrong.

Wouldn't RTE have to be a shareholder too because it is an RTE licence ? Hard to see them investing in an new lw station in this day in age when the chances of it making money have got to be very very slim.

Oscarziggy

Wouldn't it be great if the station that started it all off all those years ago found her way back on the airwaves as well as on line

---

I'm talking about Radio Caroline of course.
Regards

Fuzzy Clam

Cork_chick_94 wrote: »

Wouldn't RTE have to be a shareholder too because it is an RTE licence ? Hard to see them investing in an new lw station in this day in age when the chances of it making money have got to be very very slim.

Not necessarily. If the frequency is handed back to the BAI, then any interested party here could apply for it. In theory anyway.
Or, RTE could retain it and simply rent it out. Or even 2RN.
I cant see the BAI or Comreg throwing up too many obsticles.

marno21

Karsini wrote: »

I'm sure they could still transmit the switching signals without having to transmit the audio though? Could probably turn down the TX power in that case too. Or transmit it from somewhere else.

If they are using it to TX time switching signals though they may as well use it for audio too, it's hardly going to cost anymore to provide R4 on it and would help share out the cost?

kazoo106

This decision is flawed, and flawed for the same reason as 567 should never have been switched off.
RTE claim that 252 costs in the region of €1m for approx 2% of the listeners. Now, I am unable to find up to date figures here, however I assume 2RM charge Today FM in the region of €1m transmission fees for the National FM Network - This means by default that R Na G and Lyric FM cost the same amount for their transmission.
A quick look at JNLR's yields that Lyric FM's total reach is 1.7% and as for R Na G well their figures are so low that they don't even bother paying JNLR. What is clear however is that Raidio Na Gaeltachta takes almost €10.7 million euro out of the licence fee pot every year - Thats nearly 11 times the cost of a pan national AM frequency. Are there any figures to suggest that advertising on Lyric covers the station's costs.
It will be a sad day for Irish radio when this transmitter is turned off

Cork_chick_94

I am a little surprised that there seems to be very little talk about this lw closedown outside internet forums, I was expecting some FF Tds would come out calling it another attack on rural ireland or some such rubbish.

Antenna

a recording of one of the closedown announcements inserted on 252kHz, 1:50 into this :

http://www.dxarchive.com/mw/audio/2014_09_24_0600_gmt_rte_253_local_closedown_ann.mp3

Notice that listeners in both ROI and Northern Ireland are advised to retune to FM band. For those without FM reception, its available on 'All Digital Platforms' including DAB digital Radio, Digital TV, - as well as RTE radio player.

Where is RTE radio available on DAB but not FM ??

The only free, non-internet, digital platform within NI carrying it is Freesat/FTA satellite. It is not available on Freeview or DAB in NI.

BTW notice one of the ads leading up to the announcement was for Toyota - "the best built cars in the world". Maybe so, but they too have excluded LW coverage on cars sold in this country in recent years !

coylemj

marno21 wrote: »

If they are using it to TX time switching signals though they may as well use it for audio too, it's hardly going to cost anymore to provide R4 on it and would help share out the cost?

The UK National Physical Laboratory shortwave time signal (www.npl.co.uk/time) was contracted out a few years ago and is now broadcast from Cumbria instead of Rugby. If a decision was made to shut down the BBC R4 LW service from Droitwich, I'm sure someone could bid to broadcast the LW time signal used by the electricity meters to switch to nightsaver rates and back again.

Cork_chick_94

Does anybody have an idea what the annual cost of keeping the site will be after the transmitter is turned off ?

ei9go

There were discussions on the broadcasting bill 2008 where there was considerable support for the service and even severe criticism of RTE for not running the 252 transmitter at full power from amongst others, Sen. David Norris.

Link: http://debates.oireachtas.ie/seanad/2008/06/18/00009.asp

I have written to all the party leaders to ask that this decision be reversed and I suggest that the posters here do similar and also maybe the senators who have shown an interest in this area.

TAFKAlawhec

In terms of Northern Ireland, RTÉ FM coverage west of the Bann ranges from from OK to excellent for most places though South Co. Derry does have topological issues. Main transmitter sites for reception from would be Clermont Carn, Truskmore & Holywell Hill with Moville & Monaghan for relays, Carin Hill for RTÉ Radio 1 is also an option in some places.

East of the Bann is a bit more of a problem, most of the Antrim Glens and especially along the East Antrim coast are non-existent for RTÉ FM reception. In Belfast reception ranges from good to very weak or no reception, the city centre being an example of the latter. Reception in County Down is also spotty in places despite the closeness of Clermont Carn, due to the Mournes.

As already pointed out by someone else, back in 2008 when RTÉ Radio one closed down on Medium Wave, the station swapped frequencies with Lyric FM at Clermont Carn from 95.2MHz to 87.8MHz - the effective geographic reception area will have only increased slightly by the frequency switch, but it would have helped against interference, in Belfast in particular the 95.2MHz frequency is plagued by interference from BBC Radio Ulster's relay at Carnmoney Hill on 95.3MHz, while 87.8MHz is effectively a clear frequency across Northern Ireland - in Britain the 87.6-88.0MHz sub-band is almost always used for RSL licences (a station in North Wales on 88.0MHz being an exception) but I've never seen it been used in NI.

Probably worth pointing out as well that RTÉ's DAB multiplex has almost no coverage in NI.

PukkaStukka

I visit Scotland frequently and always enjoyed news from home on LW252, particularly in the highlands north of Glasgow. In fact, the coverage and quality of that particular signal is better than R4 on LW, whilst local FM is practically non existent in many rural spots over there too. I'm quite surprised that there isn't a more concerted effort to retain this service

Digifriendly

This decision is disastrous for those outside the ROI who want to listen to RTE 'on the move' i.e. car radios. It will narrow down considerably the number of ex-pats also in other parts of these islands listening to RTE Radio 1.

Cork_chick_94

Thing is though, when was the last time an new car radio had lw. ? Also cheap portable radios these days that have lw are useless for lw.

dxhound2005

PukkaStukka wrote: »

I visit Scotland frequently and always enjoyed news from home on LW252, particularly in the highlands north of Glasgow. In fact, the coverage and quality of that particular signal is better than R4 on LW, whilst local FM is practically non existent in many rural spots over there too. I'm quite surprised that there isn't a more concerted effort to retain this service

I'm surprised by that. Radio 4 is broadcast on two 50 KW longwave transmitters in Scotland as well as the high power outlet in central England. This fact has not been mentioned much in the discussions about the possible cessation of BBC longwave.

PukkaStukka

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I'm surprised by that. Radio 4 is broadcast on two 50 KW longwave transmitters in Scotland as well as the high power outlet in central England. This fact has not been mentioned much in the discussions about the possible cessation of BBC longwave.

Where are those two 50Kw sites in Scotland?

Edit: found them at Westerglen and Burghead which are SE / NE Scotland respectively. I'd be more over the western side. Signal-wise the R4 on LW isn't bad but RTE LW is better.

TAFKAlawhec

Cork_chick_94 wrote: »

Thing is though, when was the last time an new car radio had lw. ? Also cheap portable radios these days that have lw are useless for lw.

My parents bought a new Dacia last year where the radio has a long wave band as well as MW & FM.

More Music

Sam Russell wrote: »

Some time ago, I bought a second hand car in the UK, not from anyone Irish (AFAIK) and the radio was tuned to 252LW. So people do listen to it in the UK.

The car probably wasn't used since Atlantic 252 closed down.

Antenna

TAFKAlawhec wrote: »

My parents bought a new Dacia last year where the radio has a long wave band as well as MW & FM.

Dacia owned by Renault, and the French would have the biggest use of LW in Europe, probably helped that it was included.

However major selling car brands in UK/Ireland haven't had LW coverage in cars sold in recent years - such as Toyota, VW, Opel/Vauxhall. (though Ford hasn't dropped LW as far as I know)

The size of backlash to RTE LW switchoff has been greatly lessened by the issue of receivers not having LW.
RTE LW has already been effectively been switched off for many people who used it in cars, when cars were replaced, and the new radios did not receive it. Other listening options could be used at home but not in cars for listeners beyond FM coverage in NI as well as Britain.

dxhound2005

Antenna wrote: »

Dacia owned by Renault, and the French would have the biggest use of LW in Europe, probably helped that it was included.

However major selling car brands in UK/Ireland haven't had LW coverage in cars sold in recent years - such as Toyota, VW, Opel/Vauxhall. (though Ford hasn't dropped LW as far as I know)

The size of backlash to RTE LW switchoff has been greatly lessened by the issue of receivers not having LW.
RTE LW has already been effectively been switched off for many people who used it in cars, when cars were replaced, and the new radios did not receive it. Other listening options could be used at home but not in cars for listeners beyond FM coverage in NI as well as Britain.

All very true. But at any given time probably well less than 50% of the home and/or car listeners are listening to Radio One. Why was there no option on long wave for all the other listeners to get their preferred station?