The future of RTE Radio 1 LW

Oscarziggy

Sam Russell wrote: »

A Freeview box is not a radio - it is a TV box. The radio channel is just a TV channel without a video element. You still need a dirty great UHF aerial to receive it.

Um yes I am aware of that ........ I was just saying that you can record radio programmes on a Freeview box.
Anyway ...........back to RTE closing LW 252.....
Regards

Sam Russell

The point I am making is that 252LW is received on a portable, cheap, old fashioned radio. No need for Dab, Freeview, or satellite. Just the job for anyone longing to hear from home.

A long time ago (about 1980), I was in North Africa for a long time and could receive RTE on MW for about ten minutes about midnight after a Turkish station shut down, but just before RTE shut down and I could hear the late night news. It meant a lot at the time. This was before 252LW existed.

So 252LW should be retained, and the more other stations shut down, the less interference there will be and the further the reach of the signal.

Digifriendly

Sam Russell wrote: »

The point I am making is that 252LW is received on a portable, cheap, old fashioned radio. No need for Dab, Freeview, or satellite. Just the job for anyone longing to hear from home.

A long time ago (about 1980), I was in North Africa for a long time and could receive RTE on MW for about ten minutes about midnight after a Turkish station shut down, but just before RTE shut down and I could hear the late night news. It meant a lot at the time. This was before 252LW existed.

So 252LW should be retained, and the more other stations shut down, the less interference there will be and the further the reach of the signal.

Totally agree. I hope RTE do retain this esp. for listeners in NI and GB who can't get RTE1 on either FM or DAB.

Oscarziggy

Sam Russell wrote: »

The point I am making is that 252LW is received on a portable, cheap, old fashioned radio. No need for Dab, Freeview, or satellite. Just the job for anyone longing to hear from home.

A long time ago (about 1980), I was in North Africa for a long time and could receive RTE on MW for about ten minutes about midnight after a Turkish station shut down, but just before RTE shut down and I could hear the late night news. It meant a lot at the time. This was before 252LW existed.

So 252LW should be retained, and the more other stations shut down, the less interference there will be and the further the reach of the signal.

Couldn't agree more ---- don't know where the ability to record came from --- so I apologise if there have been some crossed wires somewhere.
Peace and goodwill to all men (and women).
Regards

Radio_Fan_67

Hasn't the longwave 252 signal always been useless in London ? Some people go on about it as if it covers all of europe.

Sam Russell

The ability to record is just an example of how radio is the poor relation of broadcasting. It matters little compared to TV.

Mycroft H

Radio_Fan_67 wrote: »

Hasn't the longwave 252 signal always been useless in London ? Some people go on about it as if it covers all of europe.

Mate of mine saying he was getting it pretty clear in Antwerp about two weeks ago

Fuzzy Clam

Radio_Fan_67 wrote: »

Hasn't the longwave 252 signal always been useless in London ? Some people go on about it as if it covers all of europe.

Even in the Atlantic days, with higher power, the signal in London was reportably quite poor. I think it was attenuated by a range of hills.

Sam Russell

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Even in the Atlantic days, with higher power, the signal in London was reportably quite poor. I think it was attenuated by a range of hills.

Long wave bounces off the ionosphere, and as you move away from the transmitter, initially the signal fades and then strengthens when the reflection comes in. This skip distance is about where London would be - you get a better signal in Paris than London unfortunately. However, as the number of transmissions in Europe reduce, there will be less interference.

Fuzzy Clam

Sam Russell wrote: »

Long wave bounces off the ionosphere, and as you move away from the transmitter, initially the signal fades and then strengthens when the reflection comes in. This skip distance is about where London would be - you get a better signal in Paris than London unfortunately. However, as the number of transmissions in Europe reduce, there will be less interference.

Daytime reception of LW and MW is groundwave. This is why the signals travel better over sea paths (excellent conductivity) and poorly over mountains etc.
There may be skywaving at night. Particularly noticeable on the upper end of the MW band.

Antenna

In Co.Cork I monitored 252 last night Wed (at 10:30PM approx) and discovered Algeria were testing (I assume) digital DRM on 252kHz for several minutes with 'white noise' type interference on top of RTE. It was the worst CCI from Algeria to RTE on 252 ever. The transmitter then reverted to analogue and a strong tone appeared (more annoying than music/speech from another station in the background of a wanted station).

Last Saturday night I very briefly monitored 252 and Algeria were transmitting sweep tones.

watty

RTE is also on much lower power. There is French language station and R4 on LW are both better reception here. (Limerick)

On a GOOD early 1970 Koyo (3 x SW, LW, MW and 87 to to 180 in three bands) there are 3 x UK MW in daytime. Nothing on the Tesco radios or clock radios.

The 1956 Valve portable LW/MW/VHF German Philips performed nearly as good.

watty

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Daytime reception of LW and MW is groundwave. This is why the signals travel better over sea paths (excellent conductivity) and poorly over mountains etc.
There may be skywaving at night. Particularly noticeable on the upper end of the MW band.

All of MW is excellent here from an hour before dark in Winter, actually dark in Summer.
LW R4 fades twice a day due to Skywave and Groundwave interfering Dawn and Dusk. Probably all the MW & LW are lower power at night.

watty

Radio_Fan_67 wrote: »

Hasn't the longwave 252 signal always been useless in London ? Some people go on about it as if it covers all of europe.

LW is better in UK during day than MW was. RTE MW was over most of Europe at night. LW not so good at night.

So yes Manchester, Birmingham etc better on 252 during day, than MW RTE was, but not London. Night time MW was better in all of UK and most of Europe compared with 252.

The UK doesn't use their 279 allocation. Ireland should have swapped them 252 for it (Algeria was too strong in London on 252).

We seem to have five MW allocations.

Also very many radios are made for USA Market, so no LW, They should have stuck with MW and done a new site in Wicklow for South UK.

During WWII the UK actually transmitted Athlone / R. Eirean from numerous English sites so the Irish TX couldn't be used by Luftwaffe.

Apogee

RTE News wrote:

The RTÉ longwave service is to be extended until at least 2017.

Chair of the Oireachtas Transport and Communications Committee John O’Mahoney said he was delighted at the decision of the RTÉ board to retain the service.

RTÉ Radio 1 LW will operate a full service in 2015, with reduced hours in 2016 before working towards a full shutdown in 2017.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1219/667931-rte-longwave/

Digifriendly

Apogee wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1219/667931-rte-longwave/

Good news indeed even if it is only a stray of execution.

Oscarziggy

Yes good news indeed --- who knows by 2017 we could all be walking around with implants under the skin automatically tracking whatever station you choose via satellite or 10G !!
Regards

watty

It's not really good news. They are just going to do it more stealthly. No viable alternatives other than MW.

galtee boy

Radio_Fan_67 wrote: »

Hasn't the longwave 252 signal always been useless in London ? Some people go on about it as if it covers all of europe.

I have a brother living in South West London and 252LW is quite listenable in his car during the day. I have been in the car with him over there and in my opinion its better than R4 LW is here in North Cork. LW252 is not crystal clear by any means, but is certainly usable by day,.

Antenna

galtee boy wrote: »

I have a brother living in South West London and 252LW is quite listenable in his car during the day. I have been in the car with him over there and in my opinion its better than R4 LW is here in North Cork. LW252 is not crystal clear by any means, but is certainly usable by day,.

Is that comparison using the same car radio at both locations ?

Radio_Fan_67

What are RTE on about when they say replacement of infrastructure would be required post 2017 to keep the service going ?

Mycroft H

Its a transistor set no? Nothing like BBC and the aging valves. Which I also expect is an excuse to shut it down some day.

Fuzzy Clam

Radio_Fan_67 wrote: »

What are RTE on about when they say replacement of infrastructure would be required post 2017 to keep the service going ?

Maybe mast maintainence. Replacement of insulators. Like what they had to do with Tullamore.

galtee boy

Antenna wrote: »

Is that comparison using the same car radio at both locations ?

No, I'm comparing it to my car radio here. For some reason, I seem to remember R4 LW being much better some years ago, but maybe I had a better LW radio in previous cars ! Also, I can remember when it was BBC Radio 2 that was on LW and they used to broadcast the football commentaries on it and reception of that seemed better also, maybe it's nostalgia !

DrPatrickBarry

Living in the UK getting International News from an Irish prospective is one of the reasons I love listening to the News and Current Affairs programmes.

Great news that it has got a repreive for a couple of years.

Antenna

Radio_Fan_67 wrote: »

What are RTE on about when they say replacement of infrastructure would be required post 2017 to keep the service going ?

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Maybe mast maintainence. Replacement of insulators. Like what they had to do with Tullamore.

The question is then going to be asked, if/when 'Summerhill' mast becomes unusable (and has to be dismantled??) why not relocate the LW transmitter to (ex-567kHz) Tullamore and use that mast? It had its insulators replaced in 2004 and should be good for several years more ?

The 252kHz frequency is already internationally coordinated to use at Tullamore as well as the existing site.

LW from Tullamore would still fully cover areas of Northern Ireland with poor/no RTE radio 1 on FM, though there would be some reduction in good signal strength areas in Britain.

Before anyone mentions the difference in height of the masts (Tullamore being a bit taller than 1/4 wave at 252kHz) - ATU at the mast base takes care of that.

xMallx

The suggestion from RTE that the mast will soon be unusable is total rubbish, 2rn were only recently applying for
planning permission to paint the top of it.

MarkK

RTE1 is listed as part of the "Listen2Digital consortium" bid for a new national DAB mux in the UK

Press Release:
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/orionmedia/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Orion+Media+and+Babcock+International+team+up+for+DAB2+Bid_FINAL.pdf

http://media.info/radio/news/listen2digital-submit-application-for-second-national-digital-radio-multiplex
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jan/29/virgin-radio-could-return-to-airwaves-in-digital-reboot

watty

MarkK wrote: »

RTE1 is listed as part of the "Listen2Digital consortium" bid for a new national DAB mux in the UK

Morons.

A crap system that needs x6 as many masts as low power fill in to be reliable that only gadget fiends want.

UK people I know have reverted to FM only in Car due to drop outs, bubbling mud and deadly slow channel changes compared to instant with FM. Also RDS does all the text Radio needs as well as smart retuning (instantly).

xMallx

This is beyond belief , RTE said the reason for closing lw was to save 250k per year and now they want to pay triple that to broadcast on foreign transmitters that don't serve this island at all. Who do they think will listen to RTE Radio 1 on dab in the uk ? elderly irish don't have dab sets and the young irish use smartphones tablets etc.