8.55AM - 5PM with a 10 minute break. Is this the future of teaching?

Peter Flynt

Worked a full day of eight classes from 8.55 PM.

Lunchtime is 35 minutes where I am with classes finishing at 3PM on a Wednesday.

Had to spend fifteen minutes cleaning a laboratory (no laboratory assistants in my school) due to numbers in excess of 24 doing Science experiments.

So I arrived late for a lunchtime Croke Park Subject Planning meeting which lasted the entirety of the 35 minutes. No time to eat and just got a quick cuppa.

At 3PM - Straight into a two hour Croke Park meeting until 5PM.

Tomorrow 7 classes and 1 Substitution Haddington Road cover class to do.

So another full day although I MIGHT get a lunch break this time.

Is this the future of teaching as the unions continue to sell out?

Any other examples of this you're currently experiencing?

rainbowtrout

It's not an example of the unions selling out.

Your post is melodramatic Peter.


Why was a CP meeting scheduled for lunchtime in your school? Was everyone on staff scheduled for a meeting at the time? If so why did the teachers agree to it, particularly as there was 2 hours of CP this evening. CP hours are agreed at a school level so you have to ask the question, how did your lunchtime meeting come about?

Peter Flynt

rainbowtrout wrote: »

It's not an example of the unions selling out.

Your post is melodramatic Peter.


Why was a CP meeting scheduled for lunchtime in your school? Was everyone on staff scheduled for a meeting at the time? If so why did the teachers agree to it, particularly as there was 2 hours of CP this evening. CP hours are agreed at a school level so you have to ask the question, how did your lunchtime meeting come about?

No it is not melodramatic. . . It is a reality of what occurred with me today.

A Maths meeting was scheduled today at lunchtime by the co-ordinator to maximise the attendance of Maths teachers as Wednesday is the best day with most missing due to lunchtime supervision on other days. It was a one off - Nevertheless it doesn't negate the fact that I had to remain behind for 20 minutes into lunch to clean up a laboratory with no assistance.

Don't tell me. . . You're in Management?

If so then it's no wonder you don't understand what's going on.

implausible

One busy day does not the future of teaching make.

RH149

If we want the 5 CP hours 'off' our 33 hrs we have to meet at lunchtime too, or afterschool on days other than when we do our usual CP hours....which suits almost nobody so ten of our lunchtimes will be spent on 30 min Subj. dept meetings -if we want to avail of those five hours that is.


I was under the impression we could offset those hours against any Inservice we do in our own time,(look at all the extra Project Maths inservice evenings!) but not in our school. I think we were sold a pup.....

Peter Flynt

implausible wrote: »

One busy day does not the future of teaching make.

Tomorrow - 7 full classes and a substitution class.

Monday - 8 Full classes plus parent teacher meeting to 6.45PM

Wednesday 2 weeks - 8 Full classes plus parent teacher meeting to 6.45PM

One busy day. . . .

Where's the time to do the other duties?

I love the way there are some on here more than prepared to defend the useless unions and the DES with useless 'Arold running the show.

rainbowtrout

Peter Flynt wrote: »

No it is not melodramatic. . . It is a reality of what occurred with me today.

A Maths meeting was scheduled today at lunchtime by the co-ordinator to maximise the attendance of Maths teachers as Wednesday is the best day with most missing due to lunchtime supervision on other days. It was a one off - Nevertheless it doesn't negate the fact that I had to remain behind for 20 minutes into lunch to clean up a laboratory with no assistance.

Don't tell me. . . You're in Management?

If so then it's no wonder you don't understand what's going on.

No, I'm not in management and you're posting on this board long enough to know that. If you didn't have a break today, you could have just told them that you needed to eat. The world wouldn't have ended. Instead you chose to go to the meeting, not have lunch and are now bitching about it here instead of dealing with the situation as it happened.

Aside from all of that, what happens in your practical classes is not of concern to the maths teachers. I don't agree with having more than 24 in a class, but I don't also see how it can contribute to an extra 20 minutes of a clean up. Students should be made to clean up after themselves. Cleaning and tidying should be built into the time for the practical as much as possible. I would have kept mine back for 5 minutes running to break until they had their benches tidy and equipment put away.

rainbowtrout

RH149 wrote: »

If we want the 5 CP hours 'off' our 33 hrs we have to meet at lunchtime too, or afterschool on days other than when we do our usual CP hours....which suits almost nobody so ten of our lunchtimes will be spent on 30 min Subj. dept meetings -if we want to avail of those five hours that is.


I was under the impression we could offset those hours against any Inservice we do in our own time,(look at all the extra Project Maths inservice evenings!) but not in our school. I think we were sold a pup.....

It should be allowed. Was it discussed at a staff meeting?

Peter Flynt

RH149 wrote: »

If we want the 5 CP hours 'off' our 33 hrs we have to meet at lunchtime too, or afterschool on days other than when we do our usual CP hours....which suits almost nobody so ten of our lunchtimes will be spent on 30 min Subj. dept meetings -if we want to avail of those five hours that is.


I was under the impression we could offset those hours against any Inservice we do in our own time,(look at all the extra Project Maths inservice evenings!) but not in our school. I think we were sold a pup.....

As usual we were most definitely sold a pup. . . Like we were sold a pup over the Haddington Road S&S.

Choose 5 it stated. . . then out came a circular which severely limited the choice of the teacher to choose their own five.

Some people are paying not to do S&S - They're literally paying the DES for their lunch break and now, to add insult to injury, they have to work during those breaks.

This is a disgrace.

Quazzie

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Tomorrow - 7 full classes and a substitution class.

Monday - 8 Full classes plus parent teacher meeting to 6.45PM

Wednesday 2 weeks - 8 Full classes plus parent teacher meeting to 6.45PM

One busy day. . . .

Where's the time to do the other duties?

I love the way there are some on here more than prepared to defend the useless unions and the DES with useless 'Arold running the show.

So you have 4 busy days over the next two weeks?

Peter Flynt

rainbowtrout wrote: »

No, I'm not in management and you're posting on this board long enough to know that. If you didn't have a break today, you could have just told them that you needed to eat. The world wouldn't have ended. Instead you chose to go to the meeting, not have lunch and are now bitching about it here instead of dealing with the situation as it happened.

Aside from all of that, what happens in your practical classes is not of concern to the maths teachers. I don't agree with having more than 24 in a class, but I don't also see how it can contribute to an extra 20 minutes of a clean up. Students should be made to clean up after themselves. Cleaning and tidying should be built into the time for the practical as much as possible. I would have kept mine back for 5 minutes running to break until they had their benches tidy and equipment put away.

I came in at the meeting at the end. I walked past the meeting as it was occurring in the staff room.

Thanks for your advice but I'm experienced enough to deal with lab sessions myself. They were a first year class and not well trained yet.

Keep students back. . and there'll be parents ringing the Principal moaning about the teacher

Peter Flynt

Quazzie wrote: »

So you have 4 busy days over the next two weeks?

Er . .No - All of the entire week is extremely busy. Try it sometime.

RealJohn

Have to agree with rainbowtrout there. As a science teacher myself, I think most of the cleaning and tidying should be done by the students. Of course I also understand that it doesn't always work out like that but the fact that that happened to happen to you on a day you were also busy with other things doesn't mean that the sky is falling.

I'm also not defending the unions. They sold us out in a big way but things like you've described happened to me during the good times too. We all have bad days and we always have (it wasn't just me, was it?). The unions do need to be taken to task but not over your bad day.

Why couldn't you eat lunch during your meeting anyway? I've often eaten lunch during department meetings and/or staff meetings if I was too busy to do so before. No doubt your colleagues are aware of your heavy Wednesday. They're hardly going to kick you out of the meeting, are they?

RealJohn

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Keep students back. . and there'll be parents ringing the Principal moaning about the teacher

Who cares? Parents are always moaning about something or other.

rainbowtrout

Peter Flynt wrote: »

I came in at the meeting at the end. I walked past the meeting as it was occurring in the staff room.

Thanks for your advice but I'm experienced enough to deal with lab sessions myself. They were a first year class and not well trained yet.

Keep students back. . and there'll be parents ringing the Principal moaning about the teacher

Let them ring and moan then. Five minutes won't kill them. They'll learn to clean faster the next time.

Peter Flynt

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Let them ring and moan then. Five minutes won't kill them. They'll learn to clean faster the next time.

Teenagers never clean anything properly.

Invariably the teachers have to go over it themselves.

I'm never absent. However I can see the advantage of going absent.

killbillvol2

Have you raised this issue in school or are you just moaning here about it?

rainbowtrout

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Teenagers never clean anything properly.

Invariably the teachers have to go over it themselves.

I'm never absent. However I can see the advantage of going absent.

Well you have two choices: you can play the martyr and clean up everything after them or you can make them do it properly.

Peter Flynt

killbillvol2 wrote: »

Have you raised this issue in school or are you just moaning here about it?

What's raising the issue in school going to do?

I'm not moaning. . . I do more work outside the school that I never receive accreditation for.

Maybe I resent having my time wasted by useless Croke Park meetings.

killbillvol2

Peter Flynt wrote: »

What's raising the issue in school going to do?

I'm not moaning. . . I do more work outside the school that I never receive accreditation for.

Maybe I resent having my time wasted by useless Croke Park meetings.

:rolleyes:

A hell of a lot more than whining on here.

Peter Flynt

killbillvol2 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

A hell of a lot more than whining on here.

I'm not whining . . . The "profession" has been rightly screwed over to the point that it's a worthless job now.

That's not whining

killbillvol2

You have a problem in your school. You do nothing about it in school. You come on here and moan about it as if you're being victimised but you do and say nothing in the only place that might actually have an effect?

It is whining. Go and do something about it yourself.

HIB

You're opening yourself up for some serious teacher/public servant bashing with the title of this thread!
Best of luck

Peter Flynt

HIB wrote: »

You're opening yourself up for some serious teacher/public servant bashing with the title of this thread!
Best of luck

Ah who cares about the anti-teacher muppets?

Most of them are on here all day pretending to be working whilst checking their email for the Golf meeting on the weekend.

conditioned games

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Er . .No - All of the entire week is extremely busy. Try it sometime.

Sounds like you got it handy, i usually work from 8.30am to 7.30pm and i dont whine about it

Peter Flynt

conditioned games wrote: »

Sounds like you got it handy, i usually work from 8.30am to 7.30pm and i dont whine about it

Only till 7.30PM. . . When I arrive home the work continues and goes on long after 7.30PM

doolox

...then call me Kermit. Peter you need to show leadership in getting your pupils to clean up their stuff in good time before the end of the alloted time for the class. It may not go well the first few times but eventually it should work.

I only have limited experience of similar workshop education as part of a 3rd level electronics course 35 yrs ago. Every workstation had to be clean and tidy and all equipment stored away neatly and cleanly at end of class, no exceptions and no excuses.

You need to ASSERT your right to a decent length of time for your lunch break even if this means stepping on toes and missing some class time or meeting time. This needs to be done in a concerted and organised manner in a consistent way by ALL teachers in a school, that way management will not be able to induce a race to the bottom in terms of longer hours and lower pay as they are doing now in many schools and other workplaces.

Dave0301

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Tomorrow - 7 full classes and a substitution class.

Monday - 8 Full classes plus parent teacher meeting to 6.45PM

Wednesday 2 weeks - 8 Full classes plus parent teacher meeting to 6.45PM

One busy day. . . .

Where's the time to do the other duties?

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the trade off is 18 weeks holidays/non contact time with students.

Now don't get me wrong, I will work in excess of 12 hours most days just to keep on top of things, and it is important to strike the correct work life balance.

Maybe there are ways in which you can improve your efficiency?

HIB

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Ah who cares about the anti-teacher muppets?

Most of them are on here all day pretending to be working whilst checking their email for the Golf meeting on the weekend.

Bit of a sweeping statement!!!
Undoubtedly you're right about some, but there's a fair few non teachers out there who see threads like this and get justifiably angry. I think you're in the minority of teachers, and most just accept days like you describe as a part of the job. Unfortunately, Joe public doesn't usually get to hear from these teachers. Instead they see threads like this, and I imagine their blood boils.

The race to the bottom is real, and 40+ hours is absolutely standard now. In my experience, this translates to an average of around 50hrs a week, and you'll have odd weeks with 60,70,80 hrs. This isn't me exaggerating. This is reality. And these people do not have croke park or any other agreement to protect them.

My suggestion is the same as most other people on here. Use the systems and protections available to you. Talk to management and/or your union if you feel strongly enough about it. But above all else stop coming on here and giving other hardworking reasonable teachers a bad name.

doolox

Re the legendary 18 weeks holidays referred to above. I know two teachers who are on temporary contracts and do not get paid when not working. So they get no pay dring the summer holidays. Many junior teachers are on less money than other comparable degree based jobs in the 40 hr 48 week working sector....their pay is evened out over 12 months for convenience but it is less than many other degree jobs especially for junior teachers.

Many national teachers are on short time temporary cover type jobs for many years before they get a permanent job, then the increments start years late which they will never catch up with their luckier peers who may have got a permanent job earlier in their carreers. They are doing the same work for 10-20% less money surely a soul destroying thing.

Many younger teachers cannot afford to make use of the legendary free time they get.....many travel products go up in price steeply just when school is out.
Unlike their counterparts in private industry they cannot take holidays in off peak times to avail of cheaper holidays.They also have a lot of after school stuff to do which eats up more time.

Terri26

Just on a point, some schools are allowing people to use the 5 hours for CPD (at a staff meeting the principal gave it to us as an option, we all had to agree to it for it to go ahead) and some schools didn't give any say in the CP/HR hours this year.

Dave0301

doolox wrote: »

Re the legendary 18 weeks holidays referred to above. I know two teachers who are on temporary contracts and do not get paid when not working. So they get no pay dring the summer holidays. Many junior teachers are on less money than other comparable degree based jobs in the 40 hr 48 week working sector....their pay is evened out over 12 months for convenience but it is less than many other degree jobs especially for junior teachers.

Many national teachers are on short time temporary cover type jobs for many years before they get a permanent job, then the increments start years late which they will never catch up with their luckier peers who may have got a permanent job earlier in their carreers. They are doing the same work for 10-20% less money surely a soul destroying thing.

Many younger teachers cannot afford to make use of the legendary free time they get.....many travel products go up in price steeply just when school is out.
Unlike their counterparts in private industry they cannot take holidays in off peak times to avail of cheaper holidays.They also have a lot of after school stuff to do which eats up more time.

Easy there! I am a teacher myself, and have been through all that you have stated, and you will get no disagreement from me in that regard.

But as for the bolded part, irrespective of what you have said, not too many professions offer time off like that. Again, it is about trying to strike the right work life balance during term time.

Peter Flynt

Dave0301 wrote: »

Easy there! I am a teacher myself, and have been through all that you have stated, and you will get no disagreement from me in that regard.

But as for the bolded part, irrespective of what you have said, not too many professions offer time off like that. Again, it is about trying to strike the right work life balance during term time.

Irish teachers work among the longest classroom hours among OECD countries.

I'm more than prepared to see the holidays reduced if the school day were to be reduced accordingly.

sitstill

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Irish teachers work among the longest classroom hours among OECD countries.

I'm more than prepared to see the holidays reduced if the school day were to be reduced accordingly.

No way. Those holidays are the only perk we have.

evolving_doors

I suppose the nub of the issue is the lunchtime.

Eating lunch during a meeting is a bad move as it legitimises the practice of lunchtime meetings...

Just say no! (although the horse has bolted in Peter's school so he's gonna have to wait for the next meeting planning meeting.)

I have yet to hear what are the sanctions for not complying with the CP hrs? Maybe do what the guards did and do a blue flu once an after school meeting is planned.

We were told we {everyone) HAVE to do 5hrs personal cpd as part of the 33!

Peter Flynt

Armelodie wrote: »

I have yet to hear what are the sanctions for not complying with the CP hrs? Maybe do what the guards did and do a blue flu once an after school meeting is planned.

We were told we {everyone) HAVE to do 5hrs personal cpd as part of the 33!

I know of a teacher whom I'd never met who refused to do the Croke Park hours when they came out.

He refused to attend the boring meetings, the time wasting group chats. . .

The teacher who informed me of this other rebellious teacher told me that the school he worked in had a real problem . . . . For this teacher was a really excellent teacher who basically wasn't going to do the Croke Park hours.

Basically I believe that teacher was warned to give up his protest by his board of management.

Last February I met this teacher for the first time not knowing who he was. Eventually the conversation got around to the teacher I knew who told me his story . . . .He knew him VERY WELL. To cut a long story short ….It was all entirely true.

ytareh

Too many quick to attack other teachers here as usual -and as always some posters opinions are instantly attacked .Peter raises a very legitimate concern .Our time is being attacked from every angle , back earlier in August , less unassigned periods during day , less lunchtimes, more after school meetings .Accusing him of being melodramatic is nonsense -like the guy looking for sympathy for 'private sector' heads doing EIGHTY hours a week ....now THATS melodrama .Id love to know what the chap who said he works a twelve hour day (and knows the importance of work/life balance !!!) earns .
It will soon be 730am till 6/7/8pm like in England and the sheeple will still put up AND shut up .Only explanation for passing of HRA (well that or fiddling with ballot)

The fact is due to all the changes in recent years ALL teachers now have to work as hard as a principal would have done ten or fifteen years ago .Needless to say they are not being paid to reflect this.All credit to recessionary times and 'lucky to have a job' but when Celtic Tiger II roars we will be an UTTER laughing stock as OUR cuts continue (before another paltry increase is whipped away and we pay for the mistakes of others all over again)

By the way Peter has this LEGEND of a teacher you mentioned above continued with his No CP Hours policy sucessfully to date?

Oh and more than 24 in practical room is potential insurance ,Health and Safety etc disaster .

rainbowtrout

ytareh wrote: »

Too many quick to attack other teachers here as usual -and as always some posters opinions are instantly attacked .Peter raises a very legitimate concern .Our time is being attacked from every angle , back earlier in August , less unassigned periods during day , less lunchtimes, more after school meetings .Accusing him of being melodramatic is nonsense -like the guy looking for sympathy for 'private sector' heads doing EIGHTY hours a week ....now THATS melodrama .Id love to know what the chap who said he works a twelve hour day (an knows the importance of work/life balance !!!) earns .
It will soon be 730am till 6/7/8pm like in England and the sheeple will still put up AND shut up .Only explanation for passing of HRA (well that or fiddling with ballot)

By the way Peter has this LEGEND of a teacher you mentioned above continued with his No CP Hours policy sucessfully to date?

Oh and more than 24 in practical room is potential insurance ,Health and Safety etc disaster .

Ya, but Peter comes on here moaning about the situation in his school, but does nothing about it. He could have just not gone to the lunchtime meeting and had his lunch instead. He could have made his class stay back and tidy up after themselves instead of taking upon himself to clean up after 24+ students. He chose not to do any of those things.

Yes our conditions have been eroded, but if a teacher is going to complain about conditions in their school that they have some control over on here and do nothing to improve their situation, then it's hard to take the complaint seriously.

Peter was on here a few months back with an issue over his timetable, that another teacher had gone and asked for the classes in the subject that he had traditionally taught. It was suggested to him that he go and talk to the principal about the situation. His reaction was 'sure they'll pass no heed, it won't change anything'. Nothing changes if you don't attempt to change it.

ytareh

If you have a certain kind of principal and youre not in their 'golden circle' there IS no point in talking to them .

Peter Flynt

ytareh wrote: »

Too many quick to attack other teachers here as usual -and as always some posters opinions are instantly attacked .Peter raises a very legitimate concern .Our time is being attacked from every angle , back earlier in August , less unassigned periods during day , less lunchtimes, more after school meetings .Accusing him of being melodramatic is nonsense -like the guy looking for sympathy for 'private sector' heads doing EIGHTY hours a week ....now THATS melodrama .Id love to know what the chap who said he works a twelve hour day (and knows the importance of work/life balance !!!) earns .
It will soon be 730am till 6/7/8pm like in England and the sheeple will still put up AND shut up .Only explanation for passing of HRA (well that or fiddling with ballot)

The fact is due to all the changes in recent years ALL teachers now have to work as hard as a principal would have done ten or fifteen years ago .Needless to say they are not being paid to reflect this.All credit to recessionary times and 'lucky to have a job' but when Celtic Tiger II roars we will be an UTTER laughing stock as OUR cuts continue (before another paltry increase is whipped away and we pay for the mistakes of others all over again)

By the way Peter has this LEGEND of a teacher you mentioned above continued with his No CP Hours policy sucessfully to date?

Oh and more than 24 in practical room is potential insurance ,Health and Safety etc disaster .

He kept his NO CP hours policy going for at least 18 months I think. . . Hilarious the conversation I had with him. The principal didn't know what to do.

Which brings us back to the very basic tenet of Croke Park.

Those time wasting hours only occur out of compliance. If teachers stopped doing them then they wouldn't be occurring. You don't need strong unions for that. . . Just a union prepared to do what they say they're supposed to do- protect the working conditions of their members. They've been bought and paid for those union leaders.

Completely agree with your stance on the legitimising of working through lunch breaks. . . I doubt the Minister works through her lunch break.

God knows they've not got much to do in Marlborough St.

Peter Flynt

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Ya, but Peter comes on here moaning about the situation in his school, but does nothing about it. He could have just not gone to the lunchtime meeting and had his lunch instead. He could have made his class stay back and tidy up after themselves instead of taking upon himself to clean up after 24+ students. He chose not to do any of those things.

Yes our conditions have been eroded, but if a teacher is going to complain about conditions in their school that they have some control over on here and do nothing to improve their situation, then it's hard to take the complaint seriously.

Peter was on here a few months back with an issue over his timetable, that another teacher had gone and asked for the classes in the subject that he had traditionally taught. It was suggested to him that he go and talk to the principal about the situation. His reaction was 'sure they'll pass no heed, it won't change anything'. Nothing changes if you don't attempt to change it.

I'm not moaning about my situation.

I'm telling you how my day went yesterday. I could have not attended that meeting but my attendance was considered important as I was asked to attend by the Maths co-ordinator.

That's someone doing an unpaid job (of coordinator) asking others to give up their lunch (or work through their lunch) when some have extremely busy days on a day with a 2 hour Croke Park staff meeting.

You just don't get it . . . In the past the Principal would have facilitated such an important meeting to take place outside lunch

You place the emphasis on me. . "What did you do?". . . .When the real issue is the eroding away of our conditions of employment right under our noses over the past four years.

Choochtown

Peter, I agree with a lot of what you say but I find it ironic that you complain about the unions and then defy a union directive that states that you should not accept any more than 24 students into a practical class.

Accepting more than 24 puts pressure on your colleagues to do the same. A union is ineffective without a unified approach from its members.

RH149

Terri26 wrote: »

Just on a point, some schools are allowing people to use the 5 hours for CPD (at a staff meeting the principal gave it to us as an option, we all had to agree to it for it to go ahead) and some schools didn't give any say in the CP/HR hours this year.

We're not getting any say about using CPD hours- because the circular said 'subject to management approval' or words to those effect our Principal has decided not to approve the CPD arrangement as not everyone does CPD......those of us who do just have to continue to do it without any credit and still do the full CP hours -minus the five hours to be done in the morning/afterschool/lunchtime. ie we get no extra benefit at all.

HIB

ytareh wrote: »

Too many quick to attack other teachers here as usual -and as always some posters opinions are instantly attacked .Peter raises a very legitimate concern .Our time is being attacked from every angle , back earlier in August , less unassigned periods during day , less lunchtimes, more after school meetings .Accusing him of being melodramatic is nonsense -like the guy looking for sympathy for 'private sector' heads doing EIGHTY hours a week ....now THATS melodrama .Id love to know what the chap who said he works a twelve hour day (and knows the importance of work/life balance !!!) earns .
It will soon be 730am till 6/7/8pm like in England and the sheeple will still put up AND shut up .Only explanation for passing of HRA (well that or fiddling with ballot)

The fact is due to all the changes in recent years ALL teachers now have to work as hard as a principal would have done ten or fifteen years ago .Needless to say they are not being paid to reflect this.All credit to recessionary times and 'lucky to have a job' but when Celtic Tiger II roars we will be an UTTER laughing stock as OUR cuts continue (before another paltry increase is whipped away and we pay for the mistakes of others all over again)

By the way Peter has this LEGEND of a teacher you mentioned above continued with his No CP Hours policy sucessfully to date?

Oh and more than 24 in practical room is potential insurance ,Health and Safety etc disaster .

Just out of curiosty. What do you mean by melodrama? Do you think I'm exaggerating when I say the odd 80 hr week is a requirement of many low and averagely paid jobs?

rainbowtrout

Peter Flynt wrote: »

I'm not moaning about my situation.

I'm telling you how my day went yesterday. I could have not attended that meeting but my attendance was considered important as I was asked to attend by the Maths co-ordinator.

That's someone doing an unpaid job (of coordinator) asking others to give up their lunch (or work through their lunch) when some have extremely busy days on a day with a 2 hour Croke Park staff meeting.

You just don't get it . . . In the past the Principal would have facilitated such an important meeting to take place outside lunch

You place the emphasis on me. . "What did you do?". . . .When the real issue is the eroding away of our conditions of employment right under our noses over the past four years.

If you teach maths, which you do, you will be considered parts of the maths department, it has nothing to do with importance.

If the co-ordinator is unpaid then they will understand that not everyone has the time to give up at lunch to attend the meeting, you will be informed of what happened at the meeting.

Did the principal refuse to facilitate the meeting or were the maths teachers doing this of their own accord?

I do place the emphasis on you, because you started this thread detailing your day yesterday.

ytareh

HIB wrote: »

Just out of curiosty. What do you mean by melodrama? Do you think I'm exaggerating when I say the odd 80 hr week is a requirement of many low and averagely paid jobs?

Suggest an 80 hour week regime ? Sure I've been in school till 1030 pm on open nights /shows etc .Left house in morning ,spent day in school building ,got home made lunch for next day ,gone to bed .
We can all describe gruelling schedules .The fact is ours is deteriorating at a horrific rate .OP describes this and receives his customary , bullying lambasting .I can only assume there are a lot of supporters of this and last government here.

evolving_doors

RH149 wrote: »

We're not getting any say about using CPD hours- because the circular said 'subject to management approval' or words to those effect our Principal has decided not to approve the CPD arrangement as not everyone does CPD......those of us who do just have to continue to do it without any credit and still do the full CP hours -minus the five hours to be done in the morning/afterschool/lunchtime. ie we get no extra benefit at all.

and therein lies the mess from factoring in all the voluntary stuff we did on our own before...
same as 'the yard duty'... used to be voluntary.. then it was factored in with benchmarking..now we had to pay to exit and now its a bloody mess of ' hours this and hours that'.
Next there will be allowance money for compulsory CPD.. then the allowance will be cut then we'll resent having to do any CPD. Thats why ive warned before about extra curricular being factored in..

The most evil word in our profession today is 'hours'.
looking for a few 'hours' subbing
'hours cpd'
'hours doing HR/CP'
If we could compare ourselves to other 'professions' I wonder do we get as much 'per hour' considering all the real hours we put in.

I think the initial concern of long days is legitimate so from that point of view the op's allowed to 'have a moan' as much as nqt's in dire employment situation. and god knows we all need to vent.

HIB

ytareh wrote: »

Suggest an 80 hour week regime ? Sure I've been in school till 1030 pm on open nights /shows etc .Left house in morning ,spent day in school building ,got home made lunch for next day ,gone to bed .
We can all describe gruelling schedules .The fact is ours is deteriorating at a horrific rate .OP describes this and receives his customary , bullying lambasting .I can only assume there are a lot of supporters of this and last government here.

There's many ways people work those kind of hours I imagine. In my experience, that would be a week where we worked from morning to late during the week - so say 8 to 8, 9 or10. And then worked more normal days or half days sat and sun. This would be at busy times of the year. I can assure you this is quite normal, not just my company or industry. Its not every week, but will happen a few times a year. 40+ is the typical contractual obligation on behalf of the employee, but hours over and above `on occasion`, with no limit placed on this, is also standard in most contracts.

Like I said, it's all part of the race to the bottom. And to be fair, teachers are nowhere near this bottom. That's why many people will read the title of this thread with a little incredulity, I imagine.

Peter Flynt

Choochtown wrote: »

Peter, I agree with a lot of what you say but I find it ironic that you complain about the unions and then defy a union directive that states that you should not accept any more than 24 students into a practical class.

Accepting more than 24 puts pressure on your colleagues to do the same. A union is ineffective without a unified approach from its members.

I left the ASTI the day after the Haddington Road ballot.

I couldn't care less about their directives.

Peter Flynt

ytareh wrote: »

Suggest an 80 hour week regime ? Sure I've been in school till 1030 pm on open nights /shows etc .Left house in morning ,spent day in school building ,got home made lunch for next day ,gone to bed .
We can all describe gruelling schedules .The fact is ours is deteriorating at a horrific rate .OP describes this and receives his customary , bullying lambasting .I can only assume there are a lot of supporters of this and last government here.

It's not so much the hours I have a problem with. . . For instance I've worked until 9-10 PM each evening (except Wednesday) this week.

I have a serious problem with my time wasted on pointless boring meetings to meet the demands of a senior civil servant who has previously advised an ignorant Minister so that they can deliberately order me how to spend my day.

This is the nanny state where everyone watches each other. . . whereby you're not considered working unless some box is ticked or some time wasting worthless meeting is held.

Peter Flynt

For me nothing summed it up as ridiculous or as absurd as what happened to me last Monday.

The Science co-ordinator organised a lunchtime Croke Park meeting (as requested by the Principal).

I couldn't attend. . . As I had to do free Haddington Road lunchtime supervision instead.