Abbey Park, Ferrybank, Waterford.

shinzon

Never said there wasn't a mass protest organised I just said the last one that worked was the grey protest over medical cards

Lo and Behold



Shin

shinzon

shinzon wrote: »

The only time a mass protest outside the Dail worked in recent times was the grey protest over medical cards, people do not want Water Meters anywhere near there water supply, a protest in Dublin is not going to do diddly squat while Irish water are still installing meters whilst everyones up there protesting. Legislation or no legislation people will do the only thing they can do and obstruct (not violently)the workers doing there work as that is the only way the meter does not get installed. and as Ive stated anyone who acts violently either worker or protestor should get the book thrown at them.

Shin

How successful was the OAP protest? Don't they have to apply and be assesed for Medical Cards now? They don't get them automatically and a number are spot checked every year. They also lost their phone allowance and have had a cut in the fuel allowance.

shinzon

Deleted User wrote: »

How successful was the OAP protest? Don't they have to apply and be assesed for Medical Cards now? They don't get them automatically and a number are spot checked every year. They also lost their phone allowance and have had a cut in the fuel allowance.

If they hadn't of protested in the first place they wouldn't have had any medical cards whatsoever, and yes certain thresholds should be means tested to be honest

Shin

shinzon

shinzon wrote: »

If they hadn't of protested in the first place they wouldn't have had any medical cards whatsoever, and yes certain thresholds should be means tested to be honest

Shin

A lot of them lost their Medical cards totally or are on just Doctor only ones. Admittedly, the limits are generous.

It will be interesting to see what the turnout is like at the Protest on Saturday. It should give a good idea of the real feeling about water meters. Although, I do believe it's at least 12 Months too late.

wmpdd3

There are 2 buses leaving from Ferrybank and one from Waterford. We will have to wait and see what the outcome is. I think it says alot about the political system when you only feel you have a voice when the motion you object to is at your door.

Letters to TD's/ clinic meetings / media etc haven't worked in my opinion, giving up now would be a waste.

O Riain

I can picture it now - Ferrybank residents climbing onto the bus with their flags and megaphones. All the while, Irish water just waiting in the long grass outside to install the water meters when they leave.

Sully

shinzon wrote: »

If they hadn't of protested in the first place they wouldn't have had any medical cards whatsoever, and yes certain thresholds should be means tested to be honest

Shin

The government at the time were more afraid of the OAP vote.

Cabaal

Sully wrote: »

The government at the time were more afraid of the OAP vote.

Thats debatable,
Suppose you could say the current goverment is afraid of loosing the religious vote....hence they won't touch the 8th amendment issue

Sully

Cabaal wrote: »

Thats debatable,
Suppose you could say the current goverment is afraid of loosing the religious vote....hence they won't touch the 8th amendment issue

Possibly, but the level of abuse TDs got during the legislation change would put anybody off trying to make a far bigger change in the same area.

nkay1985

Sully wrote: »

Possibly, but the level of abuse TDs got during the legislation change would put anybody off trying to make a far bigger change in the same area.

It really shouldn't though. That's not how a progressive democracy should work. You embrace abuse from people who are in the wrong, you work in spite of them to make positive change.

Potential-Monke

shinzon wrote: »

But what exactly is a peaceful protest in the context of the meters being installed, is everyone advocating getting there signs out and basically shouting from a distance whilst IW still fits the meters to properties who don't want them in under any circumstances.

That is exactly what a peaceful protest is. Regardless of what people think of the situation, or how they feel about the meters, what you said above is peaceful. Anything beyond that, which stops movement, abuse being shouted or people being physically touched, is no longer a peaceful protest.

Wanderer2010

Any update here with regards actually installing them? I cant see IW simply giving up for the sake of a few protestors...

Sully

nkay1985 wrote: »

It really shouldn't though. That's not how a progressive democracy should work. You embrace abuse from people who are in the wrong, you work in spite of them to make positive change.

Oh I agree. But all political parties legislate based on the views of the majority, or their target.

TheQuietFella

Sully wrote: »

Oh I agree. But all political parties legislate based on the views of the majority, or their target.

So the majority of people wanted water meters & property tax? I see!!!

Sully

TheQuietFella wrote: »

So the majority of people wanted water meters & property tax? I see!!!

Well they did vote in very large numbers for a party that promised Water Meters.

ROCKMAN

Sully wrote: »

Well they did vote in very large numbers for a party that promised Water Meters.

Ah come on Sully even you can't believe that ,The massive vote that FG and Labour received in the last general election was as much down to a vote against the last government as it was too do with anything FG or Labour stood for ,

Right place right time with enough candidates to cover all areas...

Sully

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Ah come on Sully even you can't believe that ,The massive vote that FG and Labour to a lesser extent received in the last general election was as much down to a vote against the last government as it was too do with anything FG stood for ,

Right place right time with enough candidates to cover all areas...

'Sure, I only voted them to stick the two fingers to the last shower. I didn't bother to actually read their policies or see what they would do in government' is no excuse. Ignorance, is never an excuse.

The electorate that are annoyed are now floating between Sinn Fein and back to Fianna Fail, unsure which party to cosy up with. Play it safe with Fianna Fail, or vote for the unknown with Sinn Fein who have no real policies and are floating on the issue of Water Charges, refusing to come clean on what they will do bar saying Irish Water will remain.

shinzon

We voted in the last election just to get FF out simple as naïve now yes back then not so much they made the right noises we fell for it, plus if you look at Fine Gaels election manifesto for 2011 theres no mention of property tax water charges or anything else

http://tui.revolutionaries.ie/download/pdf/fine_gael_manifesto.pdf

its only when they got into Government and became Europes Yes Men was any of this brought up as can be seen here

http://www.taxinstitute.ie/TaxPolicyandPractice/IrishTaxPolicy/ProgrammeforGovernment.aspx

Shin

wellboytoo

Water charges are here to stay full stop, and it is only right and proper, the methodology etc of how we got here can be argued all day , but the bottom line is you are going to pay as you use, and in 10 years time we will be using half what we are using today, because people are being charged by the cube.
People may not like it and SAY they are going to vote this way and that but , they may even stop a meter from being fitted for a while but the majority will be fitted the detractors isolated and eventually conform.

because nothing is for nothing and the stupidity that prevailed to now could not go on, and it took the biggest financial bust the world has ever seen to give our Politicians the Cojones to make the decision to meter, or rather were forced into it, (and could blame a third party) and that Ladies and Gentlemen says an awful lot about our excuse for a DEMOCRACY.

Sully

shinzon wrote: »

We voted in the last election just to get FF out simple as naïve now yes back then not so much they made the right noises we fell for it, plus if you look at Fine Gaels election manifesto for 2011 theres no mention of property tax water charges or anything else

http://tui.revolutionaries.ie/download/pdf/fine_gael_manifesto.pdf

its only when they got into Government and became Europes Yes Men was any of this brought up as can be seen here

http://www.taxinstitute.ie/TaxPolicyandPractice/IrishTaxPolicy/ProgrammeforGovernment.aspx

Shin

It's not correct to vote for a party or candidate as a 'protest' vote. You vote based on policies they have and their manifesto.

Fine Gael made it pretty clear Irish Water would be created;

11.3 Water
Delivering Water: Fine Gael will deliver clean and reliable drinking water in all parts of the country by
creating a single water utility company to take over responsibility of water from the fragmented local
authorities that will use new investment and best practice to deliver better water services.

Water Charging: Fine Gael will introduce a fair funding model to deliver clean and reliable water. We
will not ask home owners to pay for a broken and unreliable system and that is why Fine Gael will only
introduce water charging after the establishment of a new State owned water utility company to take
over responsibility from the separate local authorities for Ireland’s water infrastructure and to drive new
investment.

Septic Tanks: Fine Gael will tackle leaking septic tanks that pollute our groundwater. We will introduce
new regulations and standards to address the serious problems associated with septic tanks. As part of our
Home Improvement Scheme we will provide short term finance for septic tank remediation assistance for
home owners.

Now lets just say we can excuse people for missing the big section in the manifesto, Labour had loads of signs dotted around towns and cities across the country saying FG would be charging for Water and put that message out on Radio, TV and Print Media as much as possible.



When elected they placed it in the Programme for Government.

A New Water Network: The new Government will create Irish Water, a new State company
that will take over the water investment maintenance programmes of the 34 existing local
authorities. It will supervise and accelerate the planned investments needed to upgrade the
State’s inefficient and leaking water network so has proved so unreliable during the recent
harsh water conditions.

Source: http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/eng/Work_Of_The_Department/Programme_for_Government/Programme_for_Government_2011-2016.pdf

So yes, the people voted FF out and FG in who had a very clear message on Water Charges. It's not the governments fault that some people decided to ignore the message because they didn't want to vote for Sinn Fein or anybody else.

shinzon

you got me there Sully I did indeed miss that bit in the manifesto as I was going through it so bravo on that

Shin

Sully

shinzon wrote: »

you got me there Sully I did indeed miss that bit in the manifesto as I was going through it so bravo on that

Shin

For a bit of crack, Richie Kavanagh has his say on the matter...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvjdrmB4e2c

fiachr_a

The weekly church collection will now include a holy water charge!

nkay1985

Sully wrote: »

Oh I agree. But all political parties legislate based on the views of the majority, or their target.

Yeah but that's not what you said. You basically said they don't have the appetite for the fight because of the abuse they got during the legislation change. That's not the majority of people, it's a very vocal minority. Fair enough, the further along the line towards unrestricted abortion you go, the more the balance shifts towards 50/50, but this government doesn't have the stomach for it because it might offend the sensibilities of their conservative base.

I know this isn't the thread for it but just had to be said.

Sully

nkay1985 wrote: »

Yeah but that's not what you said. You basically said they don't have the appetite for the fight because of the abuse they got during the legislation change. That's not the majority of people, it's a very vocal minority. Fair enough, the further along the line towards unrestricted abortion you go, the more the balance shifts towards 50/50, but this government doesn't have the stomach for it because it might offend the sensibilities of their conservative base.

That too but the vocal backlash was very disturbing and saw a lot of government TDs step away from government. No way the government would bring it all up again so soon.

But anyway, we're miles from local issues

Potential-Monke

Didn't hear it myself, because i don't listen to Joe, but apparently in his segment the other day he was inundated with calls from residents who were scared of the protesters and didn't know who most of them were/they weren't from the area.

TheQuietFella

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Didn't hear it myself, because i don't listen to Joe, but apparently in his segment the other day he was inundated with calls from residents who were scared of the protesters and didn't know who most of them were/they weren't from the area.

It's called solidarity!

Sully

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Didn't hear it myself, because i don't listen to Joe, but apparently in his segment the other day he was inundated with calls from residents who were scared of the protesters and didn't know who most of them were/they weren't from the area.

This was said in a previous estate when theJournal covered it. Rent-a-crowd. But with respect to the protestors, every estate will have a picked of resistance just not enough so they have a group that spread around the country to help.