Haven't had a 'guns+Murica' thread in a while

Reindeer

The sad part is, the victim is apologizing to the cop for being shot.
Warning for non Muricans, some poor dude gets shot in this video:

http://www.wistv.com/clip/10620673/warning-graphic-dash-cam-video-released-in-trooper-involved-shooting

Deaths from gun violence in the US is on a downward spiral, despite what it might seem.

Let them have their guns and their freedoms!

biko

About a week or so.

Last was "Another USA Gun Thread (special apperances by M16s, MRAPs & rocket launchers)"

foggy_lad

What a shower of useless brain-dead Muppets the American police appear to be!

Shooting a person for not wearing their seat belt, Whatever next? will they shoot children for decaying their own teeth by eating sweets?

It is never a white person that gets shot!

krudler

That's fcuked up, asks to see the guy's license, shoots him when he turns to get it.

solomafioso

I was like....

c_man

Imagine this guy going around your neighbour! Ah the lads in the states, some craic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSBE0-z1i2o

Sir Arthur Daley

Would i get a good winter sun deal here?

Witcher

c_man wrote: »

Imagine this guy going around your neighbour! Ah the lads in the states, some craic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSBE0-z1i2o

At least he's being safe with it, hasn't even got a magazine in the rifle and has the bolt open.

Pretty sure those are AR15 mags at 0:49, dunno what he's carry those around for.

kneemos

c_man wrote: »

Imagine this guy going around your neighbour! Ah the lads in the states, some craic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSBE0-z1i2o

Walnut Creek rings a bell,either The Waltons or Little House on the Prairie.

c_man

In fairness, he's doing his part for the pro-second amendment cause. If I lived in the States, in that neighbourhood with him doing his walks in body armour, armed with knives and a rifle, well I'd probably buy my own gun tbh.

Manic Moran

krudler wrote: »

That's fcuked up, asks to see the guy's license, shoots him when he turns to get it.

Definitely some learning points there. He should have been a little more specific about the steps. "Where is your license? Slowly retrieve it" etc.

That said, there have been a spate of officers ambushed and killed in the US the last month (The exact number is 8 killed by gunfire), including a couple at traffic stops (one of the more publicised ones was a police chief), it doubtless had an effect on the trooper's thinking. If you look at it from the tactical point of view, the guy turned away, turns back quickly and has his hands close to his chest. If he was getting a weapon, it's exactly how he would have moved. He was probably expecting the guy to have his license in his pocket or glove compartment, and what actually happened didn't fit his expectation.

No two ways it's not the fault of the officer, but it is understandable if not particularly excusable.

Reindeer

Manic Moran wrote: »

Definitely some learning points there. He should have been a little more specific about the steps. "Where is your license? Slowly retrieve it" etc.

That said, there have been a spate of officers ambushed and killed in the US the last month (The exact number is 8 killed by gunfire), including a couple at traffic stops (one of the more publicised ones was a police chief), it doubtless had an effect on the trooper's thinking. If you look at it from the tactical point of view, the guy turned away, turns back quickly and has his hands close to his chest. If he was getting a weapon, it's exactly how he would have moved. He was probably expecting the guy to have his license in his pocket or glove compartment, and what actually happened didn't fit his expectation.

No two ways it's not the fault of the officer, but it is understandable if not particularly excusable.

The officer shot a man for doing exactly what the officer asked him to do. It is 100% the fault of the officer.

Tabnabs

And just sometimes, the good guys win

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2014/09/03/12-news-homeowner-shoots-intruder-on-911-audio/14989333/

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/24857098/home-intruder-shot-dead-despite-several-warnings-from-homeowner

http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/man-is-nd-intruder-to-be-shot-killed-by-a/article_f2cff22c-3765-11e4-b29e-0017a43b2370.html

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/story/21237261/homeowner-kills-intruder-in-oak-cliff-home

Egginacup

foggy_lad wrote: »

What a shower of useless brain-dead Muppets the American police appear to be!

Shooting a person for not wearing their seat belt, Whatever next? will they shoot children for decaying their own teeth by eating sweets?

It is never a white person that gets shot!

A black male gets shot dead by US cops or vigilantes every 28 hours. The cops there are pricks. Watch what they do to a pregnant woman:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3bOm8BKmQI

Egginacup

[QUOTE=Manic Moran;92357592]Definitely some learning points there. He should have been a little more specific about the steps. "Where is your license? Slowly retrieve it" etc.

That said, there have been a spate of officers ambushed and killed in the US the last month (The exact number is 8 killed by gunfire), including a couple at traffic stops (one of the more publicised ones was a police chief), it doubtless had an effect on the trooper's thinking. If you look at it from the tactical point of view, the guy turned away, turns back quickly and has his hands close to his chest. If he was getting a weapon, it's exactly how he would have moved. He was probably expecting the guy to have his license in his pocket or glove compartment, and what actually happened didn't fit his expectation.

No two ways it's not the fault of the officer, but it is understandable if not particularly excusable.[/QUOTE]


Yeah, ok :rolleyes:

Akrasia

Manic Moran wrote: »

Definitely some learning points there. He should have been a little more specific about the steps. "Where is your license? Slowly retrieve it" etc.

That said, there have been a spate of officers ambushed and killed in the US the last month (The exact number is 8 killed by gunfire), including a couple at traffic stops (one of the more publicised ones was a police chief), it doubtless had an effect on the trooper's thinking. If you look at it from the tactical point of view, the guy turned away, turns back quickly and has his hands close to his chest. If he was getting a weapon, it's exactly how he would have moved. He was probably expecting the guy to have his license in his pocket or glove compartment, and what actually happened didn't fit his expectation.

No two ways it's not the fault of the officer, but it is understandable if not particularly excusable.

Are you taking the piss???

The guy turns back 'quickly' because the cop was shouting at him to get out of the car and firing his gun at him 3 or 4 times! That cop could have killed the man. it was insane!

Manic Moran

No, I'm not taking the piss. There were a chain of events which the officer started which, unfortunately, also could match a threat. The officer isn't as much to blame for shooting as he is for starting the chain and creating the apparent threat to begin with. I think we all agree that the officer screwed up and the victim is blameless.

A black male gets shot dead by US cops or vigilantes every 28 hours. The cops there are pricks. Watch what they do to a pregnant woman:

Assuming the figures here are generally correct...

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304830704577496501048197464

A black male is killed by a black person every hour and a half. Blacks are obviously even worse pricks. Or, perhaps, both your statement and mine are completely pointless absent further information. As to the pregnant woman, maybe she shouldn't have struggled and it's not as if they beat her up. I'm not sure quite how well the foetus would respond to being tased, for example.

end of the road

Manic Moran wrote: »

No, I'm not taking the piss. There were a chain of events which the officer started which, unfortunately, also could match a threat. The officer isn't as much to blame for shooting as he is for starting the chain and creating the apparent threat to begin with. I think we all agree that the officer screwed up and the victim is blameless.



Assuming the figures here are generally correct...

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304830704577496501048197464

A black male is killed by a black person every hour and a half. Blacks are obviously even worse pricks. Or, perhaps, both your statement and mine are completely pointless absent further information. As to the pregnant woman, maybe she shouldn't have struggled and it's not as if they beat her up. I'm not sure quite how well the foetus would respond to being tased, for example.

they beat her into the ground within an inch of her life and enjoyed every minute of it. wouldn't expect anything less from the trash that are allowed into the police force over there. no quality control at all

donvito99

end of the road wrote: »

no quality control at all

I doubt that very much.

The Dagda

Manic Moran wrote: »

Definitely some learning points there. He should have been a little more specific about the steps. "Where is your license? Slowly retrieve it" etc.
If
That said, there have been a spate of officers ambushed and killed in the US the last month (The exact number is 8 killed by gunfire), including a couple at traffic stops (one of the more publicised ones was a police chief), it doubtless had an effect on the trooper's thinking. If you look at it from the tactical point of view, the guy turned away, turns back quickly and has his hands close to his chest. If he was getting a weapon, it's exactly how he would have moved. He was probably expecting the guy to have his license in his pocket or glove compartment, and what actually happened didn't fit his expectation.

No two ways it's not the fault of the officer, but it is understandable if not particularly excusable.

Gun toting American defends a gun toting American. How surprising?!

Do you think the recent "spate" of police being shot has anything to do with the repeated acts of violence committed against civilians by the police?

"Learning points"? :rolleyes:

Witcher

The Dagda wrote: »

Gun toting American defends a gun toting American. How surprising?!

Manic is Irish.

The Dagda

Blay wrote: »

Manic is Irish.

Many claim to be.

Canis Lupus

To be fair Manic has a point. You only need to look at a few videos online of cops getting shot and they look quite similar to how the guy went into his car.

Lets not forget this is America, cops get shot there all the time.

The Dagda

Canis Lupus wrote: »

To be fair Manic has a point. You only need to look at a few videos online of cops getting shot and they look quite similar to how the guy went into his car.

Lets not forget this is America, cops get shot there all the time.

He doesn't have any point. He's just blindly defending another gun happy yank.

How many people do police in America kill every year?

No one knows because there's no official tracking of the numbers.

There's around 17,000 law enforcement agencies in the US and one survey of only 750 of those showed 400 fatal shootings by police of civilians.

If you extrapolate those figures to the full 17,000 that would mean approx 9,000 shootings.

Which is nearly 800 shootings per month as against Moran's "spate" of 8 police being shot recently.

Reindeer

Manic Moran wrote: »

No, I'm not taking the piss. There were a chain of events which the officer started which, unfortunately, also could match a threat. The officer isn't as much to blame for shooting as he is for starting the chain and creating the apparent threat to begin with. I think we all agree that the officer screwed up and the victim is blameless.

The officer deserves every bit of blame for that shooting. It is nearly 1st degree murder. He did not wait to see if the man was armed before he shot him, and he purposefully set those chain of events in motion. If I were a citizen in Texas of all places(and I am), and it were me instead of the officer on that dash cam, I would be going to jail for murder.

And that, my friend, is one of the main reasons Americans do not stand behind their police much any more. In fact, when I see yet another officer shot in the line of duty, I often wonder if he had it coming. And I am most certainly not alone in this regard as an American.

Manic Moran

The Dagda wrote: »

Do you think the recent "spate" of police being shot has anything to do with the repeated acts of violence committed against civilians by the police?

No, I don't.

And police are civilians. Unless they're military police, in which case, they're not :P (I don't care what some recent dictionaries say, the historical and legal definition of the word separates military from civil)

The Dagda

Manic Moran wrote: »

No, I don't.

And police are civilians. Unless they're military police, in which case, they're not :P (I don't care what some recent dictionaries say, the historical and legal definition of the word separates military from civil)

The police are not civilians.

Your only reply to the thread is a ridiculous dispute over the language used?!!!

Ok mtm :rolleyes:

Manic Moran

I think this is now my fourth post on this thread?

The Dagda

Manic Moran wrote: »

I think this is now my fourth post on this thread?

3 of them were typically ignorant yank rhetoric.

Why do American cops kill so many innocent American civilians?

Gatling

So a cop is to wait to see if a suspect is armed befored drawing his own weapon ,

Greeting mr bad guy can i see your licence ,registration please and while your there give us a look at the 357 and sawn off shot gun sitting on your lap,
Mr bad guy do mind if draw my 9mm just in case we are playing who can shoot first ,

The Dagda

Gatling wrote: »

So a cop is to wait to see if a suspect is armed befored drawing his own weapon ,

Greeting mr bad guy can i see your licence ,registration please and while your there give us a look at the 357 and sawn off shot gun sitting on your lap,
Mr bad guy do mind if draw my 9mm just in case we are playing who can shoot first ,

Cops kill around 800 American civilians each month.

The "shoot first and ask questions later" system is not working.

end of the road

Gatling wrote: »

So a cop is to wait to see if a suspect is armed befored drawing his own weapon

yes

Gatling

end of the road wrote: »

yes

Let me know how that works out for ya

Officer end of the road,

Perfectly justified shoot

The Dagda

Gatling wrote: »

Let me know how that works out for ya

Officer end of the road,

Perfectly justified shoot

Oh wow! Someone who thinks American law enforcement agencies are perfectly justified in killing innocent people.

How sophisticated?!! :rolleyes:

Gatling

The Dagda wrote: »

Oh wow! Someone who thinks American law enforcement agencies are perfectly justified in shooting possibly armed people.

Absolutely i do

jimboblep

The Dagda wrote: »

Cops kill around 800 American civilians each month.

The "shoot first and ask questions later" system is not working.

I think you need to check your stats on that, thats 9600 deaths per annum, the total homicides by firearm for america in 2013 was 8,775.
Estimates run somewhere between 500 to a 1000 per annum of whats classed as "justifiable homicide", cant find much on illegal shootings by police but its reasonable to presume that it is a far lower number.

Canis Lupus

The Dagda wrote: »

He doesn't have any point. He's just blindly defending another gun happy yank.

How many people do police in America kill every year?

No one knows because there's no official tracking of the numbers.

There's around 17,000 law enforcement agencies in the US and one survey of only 750 of those showed 400 fatal shootings by police of civilians.

If you extrapolate those figures to the full 17,000 that would mean approx 9,000 shootings.

Which is nearly 800 shootings per month as against Moran's "spate" of 8 police being shot recently.

So far in 2014 35 police officers have died by gunfire (the number seems to be pretty constant through the years). That's roughly what? 1 per fortnight. Based on 2012 stats (first ones to come up) work out that 630 officers were unjured by gunfire that's essentially 2 a day and my brief search showed no stats for officers fired upon but not injured. I don't think it's unreasonable based on the numbers shown already to suggest it's a high number. That's a pretty scary work environment never mind assaults with other deadly weapons etc.

I don't think it's reasonable to suggest the police officer is blameless in this situation but the dude did dive into his car and if I was the cop in question I'd have had an adrenaline dump at that moment. I've watched other videos online where it's the cop that gets shot and most times there is no warning that it's going to happen. A simple traffic stop, suspect goes back into car and comes out instantly shooting.

I agree with Manic. Lessons to be learned and communication clarified between both parties when doing traffic stops. I know if I was the driver and I was getting instructions from an armed police officer I'd be damned deliberate with my movements.

Reindeer

Canis Lupus wrote: »

I agree with Manic. Lessons to be learned and communication clarified between both parties when doing traffic stops. I know if I was the driver and I was getting instructions from an armed police officer I'd be damned deliberate with my movements.

That's the problem - that may still get you killed by an American cop. Hell, they'll shoot you even if they have you handcuffed. And the best part is they know they can get away with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3obAbbx1HI

I speak for a lot of Americans when I say we do not trust our police. Afterall, one of the reasons for the second amendment and gun ownership is so we are not oppressed by our police. So, again, when cops get killed stateside, you have to wonder how much of it is 'karma'.

RustyNut

Gatling wrote: »

So a cop is to wait to see if a suspect is armed befored drawing his own weapon ,

Greeting mr bad guy can i see your licence ,registration please and while your there give us a look at the 357 and sawn off shot gun sitting on your lap,
Mr bad guy do mind if draw my 9mm just in case we are playing who can shoot first ,

But in this case who is the bad guy. I only see a cop and a law abiding citizen.

Canis Lupus

Reindeer wrote: »

That's the problem - that may still get you killed by an American cop. Hell, they'll shoot you even if they have you handcuffed. And the best part is they know they can get away with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3obAbbx1HI

I speak for a lot of Americans when I say we do not trust our police. Afterall, one of the reasons for the second amendment and gun ownership is so we are not oppressed by our police. So, again, when cops get killed stateside, you have to wonder how much of it is 'karma'.

That video looks to be an accident and a grand jury didn't press charges. Seems unfortunate all round really. I'm sure you took account of the part that he was a body builder out of his mind, had been tazered to no effect earlier and had the ability to bring his hands from behind his back quickly? Not that any of that is relevant to the video in this thread.

Egginacup

Manic Moran wrote: »

No, I'm not taking the piss. There were a chain of events which the officer started which, unfortunately, also could match a threat. The officer isn't as much to blame for shooting as he is for starting the chain and creating the apparent threat to begin with. I think we all agree that the officer screwed up and the victim is blameless.



Assuming the figures here are generally correct...

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304830704577496501048197464

A black male is killed by a black person every hour and a half. Blacks are obviously even worse pricks. Or, perhaps, both your statement and mine are completely pointless absent further information. As to the pregnant woman, maybe she shouldn't have struggled and it's not as if they beat her up. I'm not sure quite how well the foetus would respond to being tased, for example.

Even if she DID struggle, what was the alternative that these morons could have employed? Don't give me that crap ..."she shouldn't have struggled"

No other cop in the world just resorts to violence at the merest hint of non-compliance. Only your idiots in America and they don't even use it because it's necessary. They use it to show people who's boss, who's the tough guy, who civilian maggots need to show "respect" to.
I've seen police altercations in many countries and the cops are well trained to subdue someone with minimum force and certainly it never involved slamming anyone to the concrete and then piling on top of him or her.

These **** are just sadists and you can't deny it. But you give them a free pass every time. Your only inclination is to try and excuse the brutality no matter how blatant and unnecessary it is with ridiculous justifications. I'm surprised you haven't dreamt up "the belly bump could have been a terrorist bomb" excuse.

Egginacup

Canis Lupus wrote: »

So far in 2014 35 police officers have died by gunfire (the number seems to be pretty constant through the years). That's roughly what? 1 per fortnight. Based on 2012 stats (first ones to come up) work out that 630 officers were unjured by gunfire that's essentially 2 a day and my brief search showed no stats for officers fired upon but not injured. I don't think it's unreasonable based on the numbers shown already to suggest it's a high number. That's a pretty scary work environment never mind assaults with other deadly weapons etc.

I don't think it's reasonable to suggest the police officer is blameless in this situation but the dude did dive into his car and if I was the cop in question I'd have had an adrenaline dump at that moment. I've watched other videos online where it's the cop that gets shot and most times there is no warning that it's going to happen. A simple traffic stop, suspect goes back into car and comes out instantly shooting.

I agree with Manic. Lessons to be learned and communication clarified between both parties when doing traffic stops. I know if I was the driver and I was getting instructions from an armed police officer I'd be damned deliberate with my movements.

Reaching to the glove compartment to get your registration papers can be construed as reaching for a gun and can give the idiot cop all the excuse he wants/needs to blow your head off.

Reaching to your ass pocket to get you wallet to show your license can be construed as reaching for a gun and can give the idiot cop all the excuse he wants/needs to blow your head off.

Reaching to your inside jacket pocket can be construed as reaching for a gun and can give the idiot cop all the excuse he wants/needs to blow your head off.

And if you were to witness any of these situations you'd just say the cop was justified.

Canis Lupus

Egginacup wrote: »

No other cop in the world just resorts to violence at the merest hint of non-compliance.

Lol.

That is all.

Gatling

Canis Lupus wrote: »

That video looks to be an accident and a grand jury didn't press charges. Seems unfortunate all round really. I'm sure you took account of the part that he was a body builder out of his mind, had been tazered to no effect earlier and had the ability to bring his hands from behind his back quickly? Not that any of that is relevant to the video in this thread.

Pretty obvious by the officers handling of his side arm he didn't draw and aim he drew and had his finger on the trigger and no safety engaged . Single handed also
negligent definitely but definitely not deliberate

Canis Lupus

Gatling wrote: »

Pretty obvious by the officers handling of his side arm he didn't draw and aim he drew and had his finger on the trigger and no safety engaged . Single handed also
negligent definitely but definitely not deliberate

Worth noting the police officer involved in the shooting generated some publicity earlier in the year by buying boots for a homeless dude. Hardly a picture boy for out of control cops.

Manic Moran

Egginacup wrote: »

Reaching to the glove compartment to get your registration papers can be construed as reaching for a gun and can give the idiot cop all the excuse he wants/needs to blow your head off

That's why I inform the officer that my registration is in the glove compartment before I reach over and open it. I have military plates/decals on my car, I'm sure the cop is even more pre-disposed to the concept that I have a firearm than he would normally be.

That said, I've been on the other side of the driver's window in the past, in fairness, so I'm also a bit more pre-disposed to seeing the cop's point of view.

c_man

Manic Moran wrote: »

That's why I inform the officer that my registration is in the glove compartment before I reach over and open it. I have military plates/decals on my car, I'm sure the cop is even more pre-disposed to the concept that I have a firearm than he would normally be.

As a matter of interest, how would you go about telling the police man that you have a gun in the vehicle in such a situation without freaking them out?

Edit: A legal one!

Canis Lupus

c_man wrote: »

As a matter of interest, how would you go about telling the police man that you have a gun in the vehicle in such a situation without freaking them out?

Edit: A legal one!

I imagine he would tell them through interpretive dance.

Witcher

c_man wrote: »

As a matter of interest, how would you go about telling the police man that you have a gun in the vehicle in such a situation without freaking them out?

Edit: A legal one!

You probably wouldn't have to tell them ordinarily.

If a Garda pulled me over for something and I had my firearms in the car I wouldn't bring it up unless they asked to search the car or something.

No point offering up that you're carrying a gun if all he's interested in is your tax disc.

Reindeer

http://news.yahoo.com/sc-cop-indicted-shooting-shrouded-mystery-083958497.html