Contact will never happen due to the vastness of space

raspberrypi67

Just thought I'd get a new thread started here in relation to actual contact with ET's.

Is space just not too vast for any types of communications to take place at all. Given
the vast distances of at least 100 light years, lets be honest, this might be a radius where some life may be but surely if there was any life more advanced than us, then given the limitations of the speed of light, the signals would have deteriorated after a fraction of a light year?

porsche boy

you assume that 'aliens' would have the same type of communication devices as us, radio waves etc. different species evolving in a different solar system may approach technology in a different way.

Anyway, just because they havent made contact dosent mean their not watching.

raspberrypi67

porsche boy wrote: »

you assume that 'aliens' would have the same type of communication devices as us, radio waves etc. different species evolving in a different solar system may approach technology in a different way.

Anyway, just because they havent made contact dosent mean their not watching.

So 1 thing your suggesting here is that they may have faster than the speed of light technology?

Bongalongherb

Sure nasa and others are looking at warp capabilities already.

Why folk think that other civilisations out there would be using the same methods of space-travel as we do is beyond me. They could be 10,000 years ahead of us in technology or more. Sure they could be invisible and visiting this planet already ?.

Type 0 civilisation we are, relying on fossil fuels at this time, compared say to a type 3 civilisation that uses the energy of a sun/star.

Folk have got to start thinking outside of the box mentality, as we are not the all knowing regarding technology. We are still learning, and will be for a long time to come.

raspberrypi67

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Sure nasa and others are looking at warp capabilities already.

Why folk think that other civilisations out there would be using the same methods of space-travel as we do is beyond me. They could be 10,000 years ahead of us in technology or more. Sure they could be invisible and visiting this planet already ?.

Type 0 civilisation we are, relying on fossil fuels at this time, compared say to a type 3 civilisation that uses the energy of a sun/star.

Folk have got to start thinking outside of the box mentality, as we are not the all knowing regarding technology. We are still learning, and will be for a long time to come.

Nasa looking at WARP drive, LMAO, they cant even get out of the solar system yet...lol
You are definitely watching tooooo much star trek. It was on Film 4 the other night.

Bongalongherb

raspberrypi67 wrote: »

Nasa looking at WARP drive, LMAO, they cant even get out of the solar system yet...lol
You are definitely watching tooooo much star trek. It was on Film 4 the other night.

I know i know, but I did say they were only looking at it, i didn't say they have it.

In the future i'm sure they will accomplish warp-time advances or even warp-drive capabilities. It will happen, but a long way off obviously.

Doom

Its theoretical science, in other words they have an idea and try to think of how it may work, most science is theoretical till they actually build a working model.
Nothing wrong with theories.

Y2KBOS86

raspberrypi67 wrote: »

Nasa looking at WARP drive, LMAO, they cant even get out of the solar system yet...lol
You are definitely watching tooooo much star trek. It was on Film 4 the other night.

I laughed at that too.

Scientific breakthroughs like that always seem to be about 20-30 years away with them :pac:

We won't be going the past the moon with humans for a long long time, never mind warp drive.

We haven't even found microbial life yet, even life such as fish-like creatures won't be found in our life times imo.

Life at the moment looks very very rare

porsche boy

well it's a posability that faster than the speed of flight tec has been mastered by a different race. As my first point suggested, it would be fool hardy to assume that any other race would evolve in a similar way to us. Put 10 people in a room and ask them to solve a problem. Will they all do ot the same way? no. So it's logical to assume a distant race in a different part of the galaxy, or even a different galaxy entirely would approach a problem in a different way to us humans.

As for 'faster than the speednof light', we have decided that limitation. Everything we say happens at that point or even close to it is conjecture, or theory. its possible that going as fast as the speed of light would kill us mere humans, then again we might be fine but time relative to us slows down, then again it could speed up beyond the speed of light. We just dont know.

Best way to end this ramble is to quote Stephen Fry I believe "Either we're alone in the universe or we're not. Each posability is equally terrifying"

Bongalongherb

Y2KBOS86 wrote: »

I laughed at that too.

Scientific breakthroughs like that always seem to be about 20-30 years away with them :pac:

We won't be going the past the moon with humans for a long long time, never mind warp drive.

We haven't even found microbial life yet, even life such as fish-like creatures won't be found in our life times imo.

Life at the moment looks very very rare

I have to disagree with you. It is only a matter of a decade before we do find microbial life on europa i'd say. Don't forget, these planets are in our back-yard. Compared to the vastness of space and the universe, who is to say that the universe is not teeming with life. The Drake equation speaks for itself.

This nonsense that we are the only life-form in the universe is just that - nonsense. We haven't progressed technologically to the state of sending man/woman to all our back-yard planets yet, but it's only a matter of time with new technological breakthroughs, and it will happen obviously in the near future whether we here at this time are all dead and buried or not. It will happen in the future, and we know it's very possible.

Not2Good

Good old Morgan Freeman in 'Through The Wormhole had physicists suggesting that the laws of physics could be different in another part of the universe whereby it would be possible to go faster than the speed of light..... but they say many 'mad' things on that programme. They also have an episode devoted to the topic of this thread....

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Sure nasa and others are looking at warp capabilities already.

Why folk think that other civilisations out there would be using the same methods of space-travel as we do is beyond me. They could be 10,000 years ahead of us in technology or more. Sure they could be invisible and visiting this planet already ?.

Type 0 civilisation we are, relying on fossil fuels at this time, compared say to a type 3 civilisation that uses the energy of a sun/star.

Folk have got to start thinking outside of the box mentality, as we are not the all knowing regarding technology. We are still learning, and will be for a long time to come.

Frank Lee Midere

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Sure nasa and others are looking at warp capabilities already.

Why folk think that other civilisations out there would be using the same methods of space-travel as we do is beyond me. They could be 10,000 years ahead of us in technology or more. Sure they could be invisible and visiting this planet already ?.

Type 0 civilisation we are, relying on fossil fuels at this time, compared say to a type 3 civilisation that uses the energy of a sun/star.

Folk have got to start thinking outside of the box mentality, as we are not the all knowing regarding technology. We are still learning, and will be for a long time to come.

So. Where are they?

Frank Lee Midere

Bongalongherb wrote: »

I have to disagree with you. It is only a matter of a decade before we do find microbial life on europa i'd say. Don't forget, these planets are in our back-yard. Compared to the vastness of space and the universe, who is to say that the universe is not teeming with life. The Drake equation speaks for itself.

This nonsense that we are the only life-form in the universe is just that - nonsense. We haven't progressed technologically to the state of sending man/woman to all our back-yard planets yet, but it's only a matter of time with new technological breakthroughs, and it will happen obviously in the near future whether we here at this time are all dead and buried or not. It will happen in the future, and we know it's very possible.

So. Where is everyone?

Bongalongherb

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

So. Where is everyone?

Microbial life ? or another intelligent life-form ?

If microbial life, then we are close to finding it, especially when we investigate europa especially.

Another life-form ? well maybe they just don't want to interfere with a very very young civilisation, would you, if you seen the state human beings are like on this planet ?.

Who knows, Maybe there is some prime directive scenario between different civilisations not to interfere with us here. Or maybe they are soo technologically advanced that they see us as we see ants. Or maybe they are here, but we can't see them with our limited vision regarding the visible spectrum. We are basically blind regarding what we can't actually see.

Frank Lee Midere

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Microbial life ? or another intelligent life-form ?

If microbial life, then we are close to finding it, especially when we investigate europa especially.

Another life-form ? well maybe they just don't want to interfere with a very very young civilisation, would you, if you seen the state human beings are like on this planet ?.

Who knows, Maybe there is some prime directive scenario between different civilisations not to interfere with us here. Or maybe they are soo technologically advanced that they see us as we see ants. Or maybe they are here, but we can't see them with our limited vision regarding the visible spectrum. We are basically blind regarding what we can't actually see.

Well I was talking about intelligent life since I was responding to the Drake equation with Fermi's paradox. Where are they?

I don't buy the limited vision nonsense. Light is just a form of electromagnetic radiation and eyes have developed, more than once, to see those signals rather than other wave forms that don't bounce of or get absorbed by solids for obvious reasons.

Ardent

porsche boy wrote: »

well it's a posability that faster than the speed of flight tec has been mastered by a different race.

in a parallel universe maybe. In our universe, the speed of light is the universal speed limit.

Rucking_Fetard

The Painful Truth About NASA's Warp Drive Spaceship From A Physicist

Status of "Warp Drive"

Karl Stein

I dislike the word 'never' because it assumes that the statement will be correct forever which is horribly close-minded.

Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.

Douglas Adams

Below is how far out into our own tiny wee galaxy we've broadcast evidence of our species.

Bongalongherb

It's soo mindbogglingly big out there with billions of habitable planets just in our galaxy alone, it would be insane to think we are the only intelligent life-form out there...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/24/habitable-planets-seth-shostak_n_5527116.html

Victor

Bongalongherb wrote: »

They could be 10,000 years ahead of us in technology or more.

That seems like a naively small number, although I have to admit we have come a long way in the last 10,000 years.

If the Universe has been around for 14 billion years and the Earth has been around for 4.5 billion years and life has been around for 3.5 billion years, what is to say that life hasn't been around elsewhere for 10-11 billion years? We wouldn't be technological ants to them, we would be Amino Acids to someone else's modern humans, who in turn would be Amino Acids to someone else's modern humans, who in turn would be Amino Acids to someone else's modern humans (this 10 billion year species).

Bongalongherb

Victor wrote: »

That seems like a naively small number, although I have to admit we have come a long way in the last 10,000 years.

If the Universe has been around for 14 billion years and the Earth has been around for 4.5 billion years and life has been around for 3.5 billion years, what is to say that life hasn't been around elsewhere for 10-11 billion years? We wouldn't be technological ants to them, we would be Amino Acids to someone else's modern humans, who in turn would be Amino Acids to someone else's modern humans, who in turn would be Amino Acids to someone else's modern humans (this 10 billion year species).

Of course, but I was using the 10,000 years ahead of us scenario as from where we are right now technologically to another civilisation 10,000 years more advanced than we are now.

The thoughts of a civilisation out there that could be 100 million years ahead of us now is just unthinkable regarding their technology. It boggles the mind.

We are only out of our scientific/technological nappies today, but even a civilisation that was even 1,000 years ahead of us from we are now would be astonishing, never mind 10 billion years more advanced.

Advancements in technology in the space of 1,000 years can be pretty big in this time-line.

Or maybe it's just a holographic universe...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMBt_yfGKpU

Frank Lee Midere

Still not getting fermi's paradox. Let's take what people are saying. There is nothing special about the earth. Nothing special about evolution here.

Therefore most stars with earth type planets will have intelligent life. That's in the hundreds of millions.

Many would he billions of years older than us. So where are they?

Victor

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

So where are they?

Keeping really quiet, because they have also worked out that there may be many, more advanced, more aggressive civilisations out there and they don't want to be found. Although I suppose, in an infinite* universe, with infinite planets, with infinite idiots, perhaps we should have heard from some.

Alternatively, we have a problem hearing them.



* Practically, not literally.

raspberrypi67

Karl Stein wrote: »

I dislike the word 'never' because it assumes that the statement will be correct forever which is horribly close-minded.

Below is how far out into our own tiny wee galaxy we've broadcast evidence of our species.



Thank you. My point exactly. No one here seems to realise the sheer vastness of space. Perhaps I'm being a bit short sighted but lets just say Light speed is the fasted form of travel.
That being said , and assuming no 'WORM HOLE' bull applies here, then we are pretty much alone.

Bongalongherb

raspberrypi67 wrote: »

Karl Stein wrote: »

I dislike the word 'never' because it assumes that the statement will be correct forever which is horribly close-minded.

Below is how far out into our own tiny wee galaxy we've broadcast evidence of our species.



Thank you. My point exactly. No one here seems to realise the sheer vastness of space. Perhaps I'm being a bit short sighted but lets just say Light speed is the fasted form of travel.
That being said , and assuming no 'WORM HOLE' bull applies here, then we are pretty much alone.

I'm sure they would be disgusted by the savages seen transmitted to them I wouldn't blame them never coming here.

animaal

Victor wrote: »

If the Universe has been around for 14 billion years and the Earth has been around for 4.5 billion years and life has been around for 3.5 billion years, what is to say that life hasn't been around elsewhere for 10-11 billion years?

Meanwhile, their scientisis are still telling them that flying cars will be available within the next 20 years.

2 stroke

Ardent wrote: »

In our universe, the speed of light is the universal speed limit.

Thinking like that is holding back the human race. Remember when the earth used be flat.

MeteoritesEire

A little exerpt from Kim Stanley Robinsons novel 2312

"The stars exist beyond human time, beyond human reach.We live in a little pearl of warmth surrounding our star;outside it lies a vastness beyond comprehension.The solar system is our one and only home.Even to reach the nearest star at our best speed would take a human lifetime or more.We say 'four light years' and those words 'four' and 'years' fool us; we have little grasp of how far light travels in a year.Step back and think about 299,792,458 metres per second or 186,282 miles per second.Think of that speed as traversing 671 million miles in every hour.Think about it traversing 173 astronomical units a day; an AU is the distance from the earth to the sun, thus 93 million miles, crossed 173 times in a day.Then think about 4 years of days like that.That gets light to the nearest star.
But we can propel ourselves to only a few percent of the speed; so at 2 percent of the speed of light (ten million miles an hour) it will take about 200 years to go those 4 light years.And the first stars with earthlike planets are more like 20 light years away.
It takes a hundred thousand years for light to cross the milky way.At 2 percent of that speed-our speed, let us say-five million years.
The light from the Andromeda Galaxy took 2.5 million years to cross the gap to our galaxy.And in the universe at large, Andromeda is a very nearby galaxy.It resides in the little sphere that is our sector of the cosmos, a neighbour galaxy to ours."

---

helped me put the vastness into perspective.But there's life out there, no doubt about it.Carbonaceous meteorites are filled with amino acids which are the precursors for life.One meteorite called Allende which fell in Mexico in 1969 , probably the most studied meteorite of all, was found to have something like 90 amino acids, 22 of which are found in all life forms on earth ...

raspberrypi67

MeteoritesEire wrote: »

A little exerpt from Kim Stanley Robinsons novel 2312

"The stars exist beyond human time, beyond human reach.We live in a little pearl of warmth surrounding our star;outside it lies a vastness beyond comprehension.The solar system is our one and only home.Even to reach the nearest star at our best speed would take a human lifetime or more.We say 'four light years' and those words 'four' and 'years' fool us; we have little grasp of how far light travels in a year.Step back and think about 299,792,458 metres per second or 186,282 miles per second.Think of that speed as traversing 671 million miles in every hour.Think about it traversing 173 astronomical units a day; an AU is the distance from the earth to the sun, thus 93 million miles, crossed 173 times in a day.Then think about 4 years of days like that.That gets light to the nearest star.
But we can propel ourselves to only a few percent of the speed; so at 2 percent of the speed of light (ten million miles an hour) it will take about 200 years to go those 4 light years.And the first stars with earthlike planets are more like 20 light years away.
It takes a hundred thousand years for light to cross the milky way.At 2 percent of that speed-our speed, let us say-five million years.
The light from the Andromeda Galaxy took 2.5 million years to cross the gap to our galaxy.And in the universe at large, Andromeda is a very nearby galaxy.It resides in the little sphere that is our sector of the cosmos, a neighbour galaxy to ours."

---

helped me put the vastness into perspective.But there's life out there, no doubt about it.Carbonaceous meteorites are filled with amino acids which are the precursors for life.One meteorite called Allende which fell in Mexico in 1969 , probably the most studied meteorite of all, was found to have something like 90 amino acids, 22 of which are found in all life forms on earth ...

Nice paragraph. It certainly shows us. I do agree ok that there is a probably a multitude of life out there. Just a pity light is soo slow and that we are so in the middle of nowhere!! But then, other lifeforms that are similar to us probably think the same!!

endacl

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Sure nasa and others are looking at warp capabilities already.

Why folk think that other civilisations out there would be using the same methods of space-travel as we do is beyond me. They could be 10,000 years ahead of us in technology or more. Sure they could be invisible and visiting this planet already ?.

Type 0 civilisation we are, relying on fossil fuels at this time, compared say to a type 3 civilisation that uses the energy of a sun/star.

Folk have got to start thinking outside of the box mentality, as we are not the all knowing regarding technology. We are still learning, and will be for a long time to come.

NASA? Warp technology?

Sure I watched Wrath of Khan last night. I was looking at warp capabilities too!

Invisible and visiting already? I suppose, if they subscribe to the prime directive, you might be on to something. Still a bit Roddenberry though...

Type 0? Not using the energy of a star, you say? Sure, I had a solar powered calculator waaaaay back in the 80's

You appear to be talking about what you would like to be the case, as opposed to what actually is the case.

Red Nissan

I've always harboured the theory that we are in fact a manipulated race from an ancient civilization who may have made their home here, or on Mars or Venus perhaps and then possibly went extinct but leaving a DNA trait behind.

Communications may be one way.