Working people "should" live in dormitories

Crusades

gaius c wrote: »

Fair enough with the folk suggesting that the guy in the OP should live in shared accom but what about families with a single earner on an average industrial wage? daft.ie/lettings/blackditch-road-ballyfermot-dublin/1488592 There's only one 3 bed house available in Ballyfermot and it's €1400 a month[/URL]!

How in the name of christ are people who would live in Ballyfermot afford that kind of money while supporting a family?

Simple. If you've 3 kids and your wife/partner doesn't work, welfare is a no-brainer.

Foxmint

gaius c wrote: »

Fair enough with the folk suggesting that the guy in the OP should live in shared accom but what about families with a single earner on an average industrial wage? There's only one 3 bed house available in Ballyfermot and it's €1400 a month[/URL]!

How in the name of christ are people who would live in Ballyfermot afford that kind of money while supporting a family?

Then you get to take the considerable step up from the working-middle class to the welfare class, and you're set for life. The Golden circle will look after you from there, as they know only the welfare class can ever threaten their intrests and rock the boat. The welfare class and the golden circle class, know well, the working/middle class will take it in the ass all day long without complaint. They've done so for years.

The_Morrigan

Crusades wrote: »

People like you also tend to believe that RAS should be increased because of the rising rents.

My friend rents one of his flats in Dublin - he gets €950 per month from the DLR County Council. His tenant pays €150 cash on top. He'd be only too delighted for RAS to increase to €1000 or €1100. And because a rising tide lifts all boats, he'd continue to charge the extra €150 on top.

The flat is very basic and was built over 20 years ago. The mortgage on it was nominal compared to the income it currently generates. A real cash cow.

So you're friend is adding to the problem of over inflated prices while breaking the rules of the RAS scheme...which side of this debate are you on?

Crusades

The_Morrigan wrote: »

So you're friend is adding to the problem of over inflated prices while breaking the rules of the RAS scheme...which side of this debate are you on?

If you had an old property that you can get €950 a month for by filling out a form, you'd give to someone else for €300 a month because you think ordinary workers are having it tough? You would in your hat.

Also, you are living in loo-lah land if you think RAS tenants aren't topping up their rents. If you've settled in to a community, you do whatever it takes to stay there. A tenancy change is very risky: your new landlord could be very nasty, your new neighbours could be very nasty, you could be out in the sticks, it takes 6 months to get basic tenant rights (During the first 6 months of a tenancy, the landlord can ask you to leave without giving a reason), etc. You have little or no choice and you take what you're given. RAS tenants who are on to a good thing stay off the radar and keep their mouths shut.

The_Morrigan

Crusades wrote: »

If you had an old property that you can get €950 a month for by filling out a form, you'd give to someone else for €300 a month because you think ordinary workers are having it tough? You would in your hat.

Also, you are living in loo-lah land if you think RAS tenants aren't topping up their rents. If you've settled in to a community, you do whatever it takes to stay there. A tenancy change is very risky: your new landlord could be very nasty, your new neighbours could be very nasty, you could be out in the sticks, it takes 6 months to get basic tenant rights (During the first 6 months of a tenancy, the landlord can ask you to leave without giving a reason), etc. RAS tenants who are on to a good thing stay off the radar and keep their mouths shut.

Your responses are like a politicians....your friend is breaking the rules of the scheme and adding to the problem. A problem you don't agree with I thought?. If I had that strong an opinion of how the system is broken and being abused by those utilising it I'd be reporting them to the relevant authorities.

ZeroThreat

gaius c wrote: »

Fair enough with the folk suggesting that the guy in the OP should live in shared accom but what about families with a single earner on an average industrial wage? There's only one 3 bed house available in Ballyfermot and it's €1400 a month!

How in the name of christ are people who would live in Ballyfermot afford that kind of money while supporting a family?

Rental prices are crazy and getting even crazier lately, a 3 bed semi not far from where I live (Dublin 12) is going at €2000 a month. :rolleyes:

Crusades

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Your responses are like a politicians....your friend is breaking the rules of the scheme and adding to the problem. A problem you don't agree with I thought?. If I had that strong an opinion of how the system is broken and being abused by those utilising it I'd be reporting them to the relevant authorities.

No sh*t.

Personally, I gave up on the idea of "the system" and "fairness" long ago.

I have no problems with people avoiding taxes and gorging as much money from the Irish State as possible. What makes you think the people working for "the State" give a sh*t either? The money is typed in to a computer in Frankfurt, wired to Dublin, budgets are allocated and the money must be spent.

I pay tax at the higher rate and am currently finalising my CGT liability for 2013 with my accountant. I'm looking to buy a small house in the outer suburbs, yet I am forced to give priority to an inefficient and corrupt State that assumes the losses of private speculators. All I want is to put a very modest roof over my head, be an independent man and provide for my family. How dare I.

Crusades

ZeroThreat wrote: »

Rental prices are crazy and getting even crazier lately, a 3 bed semi not far from where I live (Dublin 12) is going at €2000 a month. :rolleyes:

I'd hazard a guess that house-sharing 30 year-olds with low expectations are the target market.

The_Morrigan

Crusades wrote: »

No sh*t.

Personally, I gave up on the idea of "the system" and "fairness" long ago.

I have no problems with people avoiding taxes and gorging as much money from the Irish State as possible. What makes you think the people working for "the State" give a sh*t either? The money is typed in to a computer in Frankfurt, wired to Dublin, budgets are allocated and the money must be spent.

I pay tax at the higher rate and am currently finalising my CGT liability for 2013 with my accountant. I'm looking to buy a small house in the outer suburbs, yet I am forced to give priority to an inefficient and corrupt State that assumes the losses of private speculators. All I want is to put a very modest roof over my head, be an independent man and provide for my family. How dare I.

Right so you don't care about the tax dodgers but you're pissed off that you pay so much tax and you can't afford a large house. Have you tried to do some joined up thinking on these two points at all?

Crusades

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Right so you don't care about the tax dodgers but you're pissed off that you pay so much tax and you can't afford a large house. Have you tried to do some joined up thinking on these two points at all?

Who said anything about a "large house"?

I don't rat friends. Maybe you would.

The Irish State isn't exactly squeaky clean on matters pertaining to corruption now, is it?

My friend is gaming a corrupt State (note: he's not doing anything illegal) that taxes ordinary workers at 52%, so any immorality is greatly diminished IMO.

I see ineffeciencies and waste every day of the week where I work (public sector). You don't get promoted where I work by saving money or pointing out where your manager is wasting money. I've been around here long enough to know that you get promoted by spending money.

The_Morrigan

Crusades wrote: »

I don't rat friends. Maybe you would.

He's gaming a corrupt State, so the immorality is diminished IMO.

I see ineffeciencies and waste every day of the week where I work (public sector). You don't get promoted where I work by saving money or point out where your manager is wasting money. I've been around here long enough to know that you get promoted by spending money.

I report those who break the law. I wouldn't consider any person who could partake in illegal activity as a friend or someone I would want to associate with.
Your lack of civic duty is compounding the problem, if you know people who are making your taxes higher by avoiding their portion of the pain and then you don't report them then you really have no right to complain.

Crusades

The_Morrigan wrote: »

I report those who break the law. I wouldn't consider any person who could partake in illegal activity as a friend or someone I would want to associate with.
Your lack of civic duty is compounding the problem, if you know people who are making your taxes higher by avoiding their portion of the pain and then you don't report them then you really have no right to complain.

I will happily sign up to a corruption cease fire in return for lower taxes. I have absolutely no problem with that.

However I won't be signing up by myself just for something to do when it's clear as the light of day that everyone is at it. Cease fires only work when everyone stops firing.

You talk about "civic duty", yet at the same time are happy to set those who have a sense of "civic duty" (civic pride even) against those who milk the system.

Me being able to put a roof over my family's head and knowing where we'll be living when I retire trumps handing over my wealth to a corrupt system. I make no apologies for that.

Crusades

The_Morrigan wrote: »

I report those who break the law. I wouldn't consider any person who could partake in illegal activity as a friend or someone I would want to associate with.

FYI, a RAS tenant paying a top up to a landlord is not illegal.

You really ought to be more careful with your false accusations.

ec18

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Seriously, get real. This thread is a joke. He's doing an unskilled job, he chooses to rent a private flat. I wouldn't dream of renting a place privately if my income was on his level, and I'm not in Dublin.

People in McDonalds work an 'honest weeks work', should they be able to afford a private one bedroom apartment in Dublin as well?

Ridiculous.

..

Crusades

ec18 wrote: »

my income is above his and i wouldn't dream of renting my own place......or even pay what he's paying.

How long to you intend to be stuck house sharing for?

NGC999888

All of the housing problems began when women were encouraged to enter the workplace.
Now its assumed that both of any couple will be working to afford where they live.
This drives prices up. Single people compete with double incomes for the same accommodation.

Stop women working and your problem is solved OP.
Good luck with that too.

Foxmint

Crusades wrote: »

I will happily sign up to a corruption cease fire in return for lower taxes. I have absolutely no problem with that.

However I won't be signing up by myself just for something to do when it's clear as the light of day that everyone is at it. Cease fires only work when everyone stops firing.

You talk about "civic duty", yet at the same time are happy to set those who have a sense of "civic duty" (civic pride even) against those who milk the system.

Me being able to put a roof over my family's head and knowing where we'll be living when I retire trumps handing over my wealth to a corrupt system. I make no apologies for that.

Join the scobies, no one cares, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Crusades

NGC999888 wrote: »

All of the housing problems began when women were encouraged to enter the workplace.
Now its assumed that both of any couple will be working to afford where they live.
This drives prices up. Single people compete with double incomes for the same accommodation.

Stop women working and your problem is solved OP.
Good luck with that too.

Ludicrous misogynist rubbish.

Women these days pay others to rear their children. They work as hard now (if not harder) than they ever did. Please don't try and insinuate that rearing the next generation of taxpayers isn't work.

Crusades

Foxmint wrote: »

Join the scobies, no one cares, but two wrongs don't make a right.

That's all very fine when you're left wondering how you'll pay the rent on your dormitory when you get sick or retire. Unless a bottle of whiskey, a dark room and a revolver is your retirement plan.

Foxmint

Crusades wrote: »

That's all very fine when you're left wondering how you'll pay the rent on your dormitory when you retire. Unless a bottle of whiskey, a dark room and a revolver is your retirement plan.

You don't beat the corrupt by joining them

Crusades

Foxmint wrote: »

You don't beat the corrupt by joining them

Like I said before, I'll be first in line when the corruption cease fire is declared.

And no, I won't call corruption because I won't get promoted, find myself being "managed out" or I could risk losing my job by firing accusations around. There is no whistle blower mechanism in place where I work.

mikemac1

He'd be better off in McDonalds then working in the hospital. McDonalds are a good employer and he could work his way up.

He'll still be doing that same job in the hospital in many years when his back gives out from mopping floors. And the contractor would drop him in a second

Crusades

mikemac1 wrote: »

He'd be better off in McDonalds then working in the hospital. McDonalds are a good employer and he could work his way up.

He'll still be doing that same job in the hospital in many years when his back gives out from mopping floors. And the contractor would drop him in a second

Sigh. And around we go again.

So his replacement should also be denied a basic standard of living while those who contribute little if anything are housed in luxury?

thejournal.ie/thornton-heights-housing-scheme-opening-1663347-Sep2014/

Foxmint

Crusades wrote: »

Like I said before, I'll be first in line when the corruption cease fire is declared.

And no, I won't call corruption because I won't get promoted, find myself being "managed out" or I could risk losing my job by firing accusations around. There is no whistle blower mechanism in place where I work.

That's not an excuse for turning corrupt yourself. You're fooling no one but yourself.

Foxmint

mikemac1 wrote: »

He'd be better off in McDonalds then working in the hospital. McDonalds are a good employer and he could work his way up.

He'll still be doing that same job in the hospital in many years when his back gives out from mopping floors. And the contractor would drop him in a second

Since when did you have to "work your way up" to be treated with dignity and as a decent human being ?

Crusades

Foxmint wrote: »

That's not an excuse for turning corrupt yourself. You're fooling no one but yourself.

Please explain how I am corrupt?

Before you do that, think about what magnitude of corruption you think I engage in vs. the magnitude of documented corruption that has gone on in the recent past.

Foxmint

Crusades wrote: »

How am I corrupt?

The I'm not corrupt, I just go along with them excuse. lol.

mikemac1

Foxmint wrote: »

Since when did you have to "work your way up" to be treated with dignity and as a decent human being ?

It will help him afford his lifestyle. He has a job and is clearly a hard worker and most comments here are not judging him

If 9.50 per hour was a super wage this article would not exist

Crusades wrote: »

Sigh. And around we go again.

So his replacement should also be denied a basic standard of living while those who contribute little if anything are housed in luxury?

thejournal.ie/thornton-heights-housing-scheme-opening-1663347-Sep2014/

My post has nothing to do with the workshy citizens spending their life on welfare. There are other posters who posted about that if you want to quote them

Crusades

Foxmint wrote: »

The I'm not corrupt, I just go along with them excuse. lol.

If you want to make corruption accusations, off you go. Put up or shut up.

Please list the law(s) that I have broken.

Crusades

mikemac1 wrote: »

It will help him afford his lifestyle. He has a job and is clearly a hard worker and most comments here are not judging him

If 9.50 per hour was a super wage this article would not exist

Ah yes, it's a "lifestyle choice" to expect a decent standard of living from an honest week's work.

NGC999888

Crusades wrote: »

Ludicrous misogynist rubbish.

Women these days pay others to rear their children. They work as hard now (if not harder) than they ever did. Please don't try and insinuate that rearing the next generation of taxpayers isn't work.

Seriously, You are all over the place in your arguments.
As someone said, just like a politician

How much tax does your guy on €9 per hour pay?
Very little I would guess.

Foxmint

Crusades wrote: »

If you want to make corruption accusations, off you go. Put up or shut up.

Please list the law(s) that I have broken.

You just admitted you collaberated with it every day of the week.

Crusades

NGC999888 wrote: »

Seriously, You are all over the place in your arguments.
As someone said, just like a politician

How much tax does your guy on €9 per hour pay?
Very little I would guess.

He's paying tax. He's contributing to the system.

However people who have never worked get to live in luxury.

thejournal.ie/thornton-heights-housing-scheme-opening-1663347-Sep2014/

Crusades

Foxmint wrote: »

You just admitted you collaberated with it every day of the week.

How so?

What laws have I broken?

Again, put up or shut up.

mikemac1

Crusades wrote: »

Ah yes, it's a "lifestyle choice" to expect a decent standard of living from an honest week's work.

It's a choice to rent a flat on your own. Plenty of workers who earn far more then him share with strangers.

What's the solution Crusades? Should the HSE hire him directly for 15 euro per hour and give him a pension and entitlements. Brilliant, do it . And now he's earning more then graduate nurses on 22k per year despite 4 years training

Foxmint

Crusades wrote: »

How so?

What laws have I broken?

Again, put up or shut up.

Crusades wrote: »

I see ineffeciencies and waste every day of the week where I work (public sector). You don't get promoted where I work by saving money or pointing out where your manager is wasting money.

So you go along with the waste of taxpayers money, instead of speaking up against it, which makes you no better than a collaborating leech on the taxpayer as well. You don't have to be caught breaking a law to be corrupt or collaberate with it.

NGC999888

Crusades wrote: »

He's paying tax. He's contributing to the system.

However people who have never worked get to live in luxury.

thejournal.ie/thornton-heights-housing-scheme-opening-1663347-Sep2014/

So we are back again now to kicking people on welfare out of their houses to give those houses to low paid workers.
While it might be popular, it will never happen.

Next you'll be asking for the retired to be kicked out of their houses to give to your guy too. Or have you already suggested that one too?

Crusades

Foxmint wrote: »

So you go along with the waste of taxpayers money, instead of speaking up against it, which makes you no better than a collaborating leech on the taxpayer as well. You don't have to be caught breaking a law to be corrupt or collaberate with it.

I am forced to engage in low level corruption. I don't do so out of choice.

You're sitting there with a hailo over your head saying you'd sooner be an unemployed hero than an employed coward? Yeah f*cking right.

That's what happens when you live Ireland - the Wild West of Europe.

Now what laws did I break?

Foxmint

Crusades wrote: »

I am forced to engage in low level corruption. I don't do so out of choice.

No is forcing you to do anything, you're making money off the taxpayer while turning a blind eye, which makes you no better, and the very reason all the corruption exists and thrives in the first place.

Crusades

NGC999888 wrote: »

So we are back again now to kicking people on welfare out of their houses to give those houses to low paid workers.
While it might be popular, it will never happen.

Next you'll be asking for the retired to be kicked out of their houses to give to your guy too. Or have you already suggested that one too?

I don't think people on welfare should be denied a basic standard of living either.

There is a very strong dole culture in Ireland - that needs to change.

All I'm doing is highlighting the perverse system that has developed in this country - a system that prioritises those who contribute nothing over those who contribute lots.

I made a list of suggestions as to how to fix this in an earlier post. Practical policy changes that can be made that wouldn't cost very much.

The_Morrigan

This thread is just going round in off topic circles.

Victor

NGC999888 wrote: »

All of the housing problems began when women were encouraged to enter the workplace. Now its assumed that both of any couple will be working to afford where they live. This drives prices up. Single people compete with double incomes for the same accommodation. Stop women working and your problem is solved OP. Good luck with that too.

You might rephrase you post so it doesn't come across as being bigoted

Moderator

---

Stop women working and watch incomes (personal and national) drop at least 30%.

The_Conductor

Victor wrote: »

You might rephrase you post so it doesn't come across as being bigoted

Moderator

---

Stop women working and watch incomes (personal and national) drop at least 30%.

More misogynisitc than bigoted to be honest.
Unacceptable, either way.

The thread has a temporary reprieve- on the understanding that people behave. There will be a zero tolerance approach to moderating from the 3 of us. If you misbehave, we will come down on you like a tonne of bricks- this is your one and only warning.

ec18

Crusades wrote: »

How long to you intend to be stuck house sharing for?

4/5 years maybe.....well thats all going according to plan