Working people "should" live in dormitories

The_Conductor

MouseTail wrote: »

My post was not intended to amuse you. Jan O'Sullivan is Minister for Education, she only had short tenure in housing. This is now under Paudie Coffey's remit.

She set up the consultative process.
It has not reported yet.
You're picking at straws pointing out that she has been moved.

Crusades

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Seriously, get real. This thread is a joke. He's doing an unskilled job, he chooses to rent a private flat. I wouldn't dream of renting a place privately if my income was on his level, and I'm not in Dublin.

People in McDonalds work an 'honest weeks work', should they be able to afford a private one bedroom apartment in Dublin as well?

Ridiculous.

McDonald's pay above minimum wage. They also have a very good staff development program. Supervisors and managers there can earn a lot more than many struggling solicitors and accountants that I know. Of course Celtic Cubs with degrees coming out every orifice would be too proud to work for a global company like McDonald's.

Even if you're clearing trays for 40 hours a week, you're entitled (yes, entitled) to a basic standard of living.

The people who say that workers should be put in to dormitories and we should leave the work shy in their city centre town houses are the Communists in this discussion.

thrashmetalfan

there is an easy solution to solve all this endless bickering. just pay the man more money. increase the minimum wage. the job he does is an important one. a clean sterile operating theatre is half the battle when performing surgery.

as far as people one the dole right now being described as workshy. well I strongly disagree with that. we are not out of the woods yet concerning this recession no matter what you hear and read. lots of people don't have work because the jobs are not there.

please feel free to tear me and what I have posted apart if you want. I welcome the feedback.

Crusades

thrashmetalfan wrote: »

there is an easy solution to solve all this endless bickering. just pay the man more money. increase the minimum wage. the job he does is an important one. a clean sterile operating theatre is half the battle when performing surgery.

Strongly disagree.

We have one of the highest minimum wages in the world.

It costs an employer nearly €12 per hour (Employer's PRSI) to employ someone on minimum wage. Employers also have a duty of care to the employee (maternity cover, sick cover, personal injury prevention, pensions, etc.) The costs add up rapidly. Ireland is operating in a global market - your customers don't care how much it costs you to employ someone.

Things are more expensive in Ireland due to poor policy, not because of the fundamental cost.

I wonder how many are sharing in this state-funded development:

thejournal.ie/thornton-heights-housing-scheme-opening-1663347-Sep2014/

If you are privileged to have a low paying job, the President isn't interested in seeing or talking to you. However, if you're pregnant at 18, you get your photo in the newspaper with the President and are housed for life in a flat that an ordinary worker couldn't dream of being able to afford unless he/she won the lottery.

thrashmetalfan

Crusades wrote: »

Strongly disagree.

We have one of the highest minimum wages in the world.

Things are more expensive in Ireland due to poor policy, not because of the fundamental cost.

I wonder how many are sharing in this state-funded development:

thejournal.ie/thornton-heights-housing-scheme-opening-1663347-Sep2014/

If you are privileged to have a low paying job, the President isn't interested in seeing or talking to you. However, if you're pregnant at 18, you get your photo in the newspaper with the President and are housed for life in a flat that an ordinary worker couldn't dream of being able to afford unless he/she won the lottery.

I am sorry crusades but I strongly disagree with your post.

Crusades

thrashmetalfan wrote: »

I am sorry crusades but I strongly disagree with your post.

People like you also tend to believe that RAS should be increased because of the rising rents.

My friend rents one of his flats in Dublin - he gets €950 per month from the DLR County Council. His tenant pays €150 cash on top. He'd be only too delighted for RAS to increase to €1000 or €1100. And because a rising tide lifts all boats, he'd continue to charge the extra €150 on top.

The flat is very basic and was built over 20 years ago. The mortgage on it was nominal compared to the income it currently generates. A real cash cow.

gaius c

Welcome to Dublin where only hospital consultants can afford to live and the binmen commute in from Navan.

Crusades

gaius c wrote: »

Welcome to Dublin where only hospital consultants can afford to live and the binmen commute in from Navan.

It's not unheard of for binmen with legacy contracts who've been clocking up the increments over the years to be on €60k or €70k. Probably have the gaff in Donnycarney paid off too. And best of luck to them I say!

thrashmetalfan

Crusades wrote: »

People like you also tend to believe that RAS should be increased because of the rising rents.

My friend rents one of his flats in Dublin - he gets €950 per month from the DLR County Council. His tenant pays €150 cash on top. He'd be only too delighted for RAS to increase to €1000 or €1100. And because a rising tide lifts all boats, he'd continue to charge the extra €150 on top.

The flat is very basic and was built over 20 years ago. The mortgage on it was nominal compared to the income it currently generates. A real cash cow.

crusades don't refer to me as "people like you". you are being rude when you do that. just calm down please, it is only an online discussion we are having, no need to go to war over it.

gaius c

Fair enough with the folk suggesting that the guy in the OP should live in shared accom but what about families with a single earner on an average industrial wage? There's only one 3 bed house available in Ballyfermot and it's €1400 a month!

How in the name of christ are people who would live in Ballyfermot afford that kind of money while supporting a family?

Crusades

gaius c wrote: »

Fair enough with the folk suggesting that the guy in the OP should live in shared accom but what about families with a single earner on an average industrial wage? daft.ie/lettings/blackditch-road-ballyfermot-dublin/1488592 There's only one 3 bed house available in Ballyfermot and it's €1400 a month[/URL]!

How in the name of christ are people who would live in Ballyfermot afford that kind of money while supporting a family?

Simple. If you've 3 kids and your wife/partner doesn't work, welfare is a no-brainer.

Foxmint

gaius c wrote: »

Fair enough with the folk suggesting that the guy in the OP should live in shared accom but what about families with a single earner on an average industrial wage? There's only one 3 bed house available in Ballyfermot and it's €1400 a month[/URL]!

How in the name of christ are people who would live in Ballyfermot afford that kind of money while supporting a family?

Then you get to take the considerable step up from the working-middle class to the welfare class, and you're set for life. The Golden circle will look after you from there, as they know only the welfare class can ever threaten their intrests and rock the boat. The welfare class and the golden circle class, know well, the working/middle class will take it in the ass all day long without complaint. They've done so for years.

The_Morrigan

Crusades wrote: »

People like you also tend to believe that RAS should be increased because of the rising rents.

My friend rents one of his flats in Dublin - he gets €950 per month from the DLR County Council. His tenant pays €150 cash on top. He'd be only too delighted for RAS to increase to €1000 or €1100. And because a rising tide lifts all boats, he'd continue to charge the extra €150 on top.

The flat is very basic and was built over 20 years ago. The mortgage on it was nominal compared to the income it currently generates. A real cash cow.

So you're friend is adding to the problem of over inflated prices while breaking the rules of the RAS scheme...which side of this debate are you on?

Crusades

The_Morrigan wrote: »

So you're friend is adding to the problem of over inflated prices while breaking the rules of the RAS scheme...which side of this debate are you on?

If you had an old property that you can get €950 a month for by filling out a form, you'd give to someone else for €300 a month because you think ordinary workers are having it tough? You would in your hat.

Also, you are living in loo-lah land if you think RAS tenants aren't topping up their rents. If you've settled in to a community, you do whatever it takes to stay there. A tenancy change is very risky: your new landlord could be very nasty, your new neighbours could be very nasty, you could be out in the sticks, it takes 6 months to get basic tenant rights (During the first 6 months of a tenancy, the landlord can ask you to leave without giving a reason), etc. You have little or no choice and you take what you're given. RAS tenants who are on to a good thing stay off the radar and keep their mouths shut.

The_Morrigan

Crusades wrote: »

If you had an old property that you can get €950 a month for by filling out a form, you'd give to someone else for €300 a month because you think ordinary workers are having it tough? You would in your hat.

Also, you are living in loo-lah land if you think RAS tenants aren't topping up their rents. If you've settled in to a community, you do whatever it takes to stay there. A tenancy change is very risky: your new landlord could be very nasty, your new neighbours could be very nasty, you could be out in the sticks, it takes 6 months to get basic tenant rights (During the first 6 months of a tenancy, the landlord can ask you to leave without giving a reason), etc. RAS tenants who are on to a good thing stay off the radar and keep their mouths shut.

Your responses are like a politicians....your friend is breaking the rules of the scheme and adding to the problem. A problem you don't agree with I thought?. If I had that strong an opinion of how the system is broken and being abused by those utilising it I'd be reporting them to the relevant authorities.

ZeroThreat

gaius c wrote: »

Fair enough with the folk suggesting that the guy in the OP should live in shared accom but what about families with a single earner on an average industrial wage? There's only one 3 bed house available in Ballyfermot and it's €1400 a month!

How in the name of christ are people who would live in Ballyfermot afford that kind of money while supporting a family?

Rental prices are crazy and getting even crazier lately, a 3 bed semi not far from where I live (Dublin 12) is going at €2000 a month. :rolleyes:

Crusades

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Your responses are like a politicians....your friend is breaking the rules of the scheme and adding to the problem. A problem you don't agree with I thought?. If I had that strong an opinion of how the system is broken and being abused by those utilising it I'd be reporting them to the relevant authorities.

No sh*t.

Personally, I gave up on the idea of "the system" and "fairness" long ago.

I have no problems with people avoiding taxes and gorging as much money from the Irish State as possible. What makes you think the people working for "the State" give a sh*t either? The money is typed in to a computer in Frankfurt, wired to Dublin, budgets are allocated and the money must be spent.

I pay tax at the higher rate and am currently finalising my CGT liability for 2013 with my accountant. I'm looking to buy a small house in the outer suburbs, yet I am forced to give priority to an inefficient and corrupt State that assumes the losses of private speculators. All I want is to put a very modest roof over my head, be an independent man and provide for my family. How dare I.

Crusades

ZeroThreat wrote: »

Rental prices are crazy and getting even crazier lately, a 3 bed semi not far from where I live (Dublin 12) is going at €2000 a month. :rolleyes:

I'd hazard a guess that house-sharing 30 year-olds with low expectations are the target market.

The_Morrigan

Crusades wrote: »

No sh*t.

Personally, I gave up on the idea of "the system" and "fairness" long ago.

I have no problems with people avoiding taxes and gorging as much money from the Irish State as possible. What makes you think the people working for "the State" give a sh*t either? The money is typed in to a computer in Frankfurt, wired to Dublin, budgets are allocated and the money must be spent.

I pay tax at the higher rate and am currently finalising my CGT liability for 2013 with my accountant. I'm looking to buy a small house in the outer suburbs, yet I am forced to give priority to an inefficient and corrupt State that assumes the losses of private speculators. All I want is to put a very modest roof over my head, be an independent man and provide for my family. How dare I.

Right so you don't care about the tax dodgers but you're pissed off that you pay so much tax and you can't afford a large house. Have you tried to do some joined up thinking on these two points at all?

Crusades

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Right so you don't care about the tax dodgers but you're pissed off that you pay so much tax and you can't afford a large house. Have you tried to do some joined up thinking on these two points at all?

Who said anything about a "large house"?

I don't rat friends. Maybe you would.

The Irish State isn't exactly squeaky clean on matters pertaining to corruption now, is it?

My friend is gaming a corrupt State (note: he's not doing anything illegal) that taxes ordinary workers at 52%, so any immorality is greatly diminished IMO.

I see ineffeciencies and waste every day of the week where I work (public sector). You don't get promoted where I work by saving money or pointing out where your manager is wasting money. I've been around here long enough to know that you get promoted by spending money.

The_Morrigan

Crusades wrote: »

I don't rat friends. Maybe you would.

He's gaming a corrupt State, so the immorality is diminished IMO.

I see ineffeciencies and waste every day of the week where I work (public sector). You don't get promoted where I work by saving money or point out where your manager is wasting money. I've been around here long enough to know that you get promoted by spending money.

I report those who break the law. I wouldn't consider any person who could partake in illegal activity as a friend or someone I would want to associate with.
Your lack of civic duty is compounding the problem, if you know people who are making your taxes higher by avoiding their portion of the pain and then you don't report them then you really have no right to complain.

Crusades

The_Morrigan wrote: »

I report those who break the law. I wouldn't consider any person who could partake in illegal activity as a friend or someone I would want to associate with.
Your lack of civic duty is compounding the problem, if you know people who are making your taxes higher by avoiding their portion of the pain and then you don't report them then you really have no right to complain.

I will happily sign up to a corruption cease fire in return for lower taxes. I have absolutely no problem with that.

However I won't be signing up by myself just for something to do when it's clear as the light of day that everyone is at it. Cease fires only work when everyone stops firing.

You talk about "civic duty", yet at the same time are happy to set those who have a sense of "civic duty" (civic pride even) against those who milk the system.

Me being able to put a roof over my family's head and knowing where we'll be living when I retire trumps handing over my wealth to a corrupt system. I make no apologies for that.

Crusades

The_Morrigan wrote: »

I report those who break the law. I wouldn't consider any person who could partake in illegal activity as a friend or someone I would want to associate with.

FYI, a RAS tenant paying a top up to a landlord is not illegal.

You really ought to be more careful with your false accusations.

ec18

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Seriously, get real. This thread is a joke. He's doing an unskilled job, he chooses to rent a private flat. I wouldn't dream of renting a place privately if my income was on his level, and I'm not in Dublin.

People in McDonalds work an 'honest weeks work', should they be able to afford a private one bedroom apartment in Dublin as well?

Ridiculous.

..

Crusades

ec18 wrote: »

my income is above his and i wouldn't dream of renting my own place......or even pay what he's paying.

How long to you intend to be stuck house sharing for?

NGC999888

All of the housing problems began when women were encouraged to enter the workplace.
Now its assumed that both of any couple will be working to afford where they live.
This drives prices up. Single people compete with double incomes for the same accommodation.

Stop women working and your problem is solved OP.
Good luck with that too.

Foxmint

Crusades wrote: »

I will happily sign up to a corruption cease fire in return for lower taxes. I have absolutely no problem with that.

However I won't be signing up by myself just for something to do when it's clear as the light of day that everyone is at it. Cease fires only work when everyone stops firing.

You talk about "civic duty", yet at the same time are happy to set those who have a sense of "civic duty" (civic pride even) against those who milk the system.

Me being able to put a roof over my family's head and knowing where we'll be living when I retire trumps handing over my wealth to a corrupt system. I make no apologies for that.

Join the scobies, no one cares, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Crusades

NGC999888 wrote: »

All of the housing problems began when women were encouraged to enter the workplace.
Now its assumed that both of any couple will be working to afford where they live.
This drives prices up. Single people compete with double incomes for the same accommodation.

Stop women working and your problem is solved OP.
Good luck with that too.

Ludicrous misogynist rubbish.

Women these days pay others to rear their children. They work as hard now (if not harder) than they ever did. Please don't try and insinuate that rearing the next generation of taxpayers isn't work.

Crusades

Foxmint wrote: »

Join the scobies, no one cares, but two wrongs don't make a right.

That's all very fine when you're left wondering how you'll pay the rent on your dormitory when you get sick or retire. Unless a bottle of whiskey, a dark room and a revolver is your retirement plan.

Foxmint

Crusades wrote: »

That's all very fine when you're left wondering how you'll pay the rent on your dormitory when you retire. Unless a bottle of whiskey, a dark room and a revolver is your retirement plan.

You don't beat the corrupt by joining them