Dublin marathon elite Field

thirstywork2

Anyone any idea what is the elite field like this year.
Heard Freddy the kenyan who runs for Raheny is training back in Kenya for it.
What top Irish lads are running?
Maria running a pb in Charleville looks in good form to have a crack at defending her title.
Sean Hehir running?

GoTheDistance

thirstywork2 wrote: »

Anyone any idea what is the elite field like this year.
Heard Freddy the kenyan who runs for Raheny is training back in Kenya for it.
What top Irish lads are running?
Maria running a pb in Charleville looks in good form to have a crack at defending her title.
Sean Hehir running?

Are you not on the DCM committee thirstywork2? Thought you would have the inside track? ;-)

tunguska

thirstywork2 wrote: »

Anyone any idea what is the elite field like this year.
Heard Freddy the kenyan who runs for Raheny is training back in Kenya for it.
What top Irish lads are running?
Maria running a pb in Charleville looks in good form to have a crack at defending her title.
Sean Hehir running?

Can't really look past maria for the national championship

eldiva

Don't think Sean Hehir is running. Could be wrong

youngrun

Fairly sure Sergio is running. Dont think Hehir is as OP says. Paddy Hamilton also a probable?

wgtomblin

I read that Eddie McGinley will be entered.

mruser2014

Isn't the former doper Martin Fagan meant to be running?

dukeraoul

I'm not trying to be bad but haven't seen a name mentioned yet (w/ the possible exception of Fagan) that have/has ever run times that most people would regard as "elite". I thought I heard the DCM was gonna go back to facilitating elite athletes this year, is this not the case?

tunguska

dukeraoul wrote: »

I'm not trying to be bad but haven't seen a name mentioned yet (w/ the possible exception of Fagan) that have/has ever run times that most people would regard as "elite". I thought I heard the DCM was gonna go back to facilitating elite athletes this year, is this not the case?

There was a bit of an implosion with the marathon Mission thang which could be a reason why theres no real depth of Irish athletes doing DCM. I mean last year it was orgainsed as a group and there was subsidised/free entry. But since things have fizzled out its been back to the old fragmented way of training. Which is a shame because the concept was good, get a load of people of a certain standard together so that they could train as a group and bring each other on. But the natue of the sport coupled with the lack of support and funding meant that people would do their own thing and not turn up at meetings or group sessions. It would be great to get a group together, all training for the same distances, all on the same training plan, who would have resources and support to back them up........I think then you'd see some serious improvements in standards.

RayCun

Two teams ran in the European marathon cup, that's 6 good Irish runners out of Dublin.
Supposed to be inviting internationals again this year, haven't heard anything though.

dublin runner

Here's a thought. Maybe Dublin's course is the problem. With finishing times becoming more and more important (qualifications. sponsorship etc.) maybe the course is just too slow. Why would an elite really want to run this? The prize-money ain't that great and the course is undulating for a 'big city marathon' (and that's being nice).

I can confirm that I am almost certainly running though .

Netwerk Errer

dublin runner wrote: »

Here's a thought. Maybe Dublin's course is the problem. With finishing times becoming more and more important (qualifications. sponsorship etc.) maybe the course is just too slow. Why would an elite really want to run this? The prize-money ain't that great and the course is undulating for a 'big city marathon' (and that's being nice).

I can confirm that I am almost certainly running though .

Everyone talks about roebuck but there is some real energy biters in the first half.

That stretch of straight through phoenix park and the steep incline under the flyover too in the first half. That's where you need to be careful and not dig into the reserves. TBH, I didn't even notice the hill at clonskeagh when I done it last year.

I heard the route used to go northside in the past. What was that route like?

dukeraoul

You know, if I was in charge of Dublin- I'd try and emulate Boston and do a unique point to point (starting in say Wicklow to Dub city centre) w/ a net downhill showcasing beautiful Irish countryside and the buzzing capital w/ the chance for lightening fast times and the best party in world marathoning after it- but I'm not

dublin runner

Netwerk Errer wrote: »

Everyone talks about roebuck but there is some real energy biters in the first half.

That stretch of straight through phoenix park and the steep incline under the flyover too in the first half. That's where you need to be careful and not dig into the reserves. TBH, I didn't even notice the hill at clonskeagh when I done it last year.

I heard the route used to go northside in the past. What was that route like?

I am looking from it from an elite level. I think it's a great race but if I needed to run quick times as a professional/semi-professional why would I choose Dublin? Granted it did Sean Heir a world of good last year but that was a once-off (no invites sent).

It may be unfair but consider the course to Rotterdam, Amsterdam and similar sized races abroad. Dublin is a difficult course in comparison. Elites want to run fast times and most decide not to let a course like Dublin deprive them of precious minutes.

Not too sure of the Northside route but if Dublin is to attract the top natonal and international runners it needs to look at the course. it's prize-money or preferably even both. If it doesn't it's just a mass participation sport. I would like nothing better than to see a bunch of runners running under 2.08-2.10 in my home city.

tunguska

Netwerk Errer wrote: »

Everyone talks about roebuck but there is some real energy biters in the first half.

That stretch of straight through phoenix park and the steep incline under the flyover too in the first half. That's where you need to be careful and not dig into the reserves. TBH, I didn't even notice the hill at clonskeagh when I done it last year.

I heard the route used to go northside in the past. What was that route like?

Definitley some stretches all the way to about 14/15miles that will take a bite if you're not smart about your pacing.

Netwerk Errer

dublin runner wrote: »

I am looking from it from an elite level. I think it's a great race but if I needed to run quick times as a professional/semi-professional why would I choose Dublin? Granted it did Sean Heir a world of good last year but that was a once-off (no invites sent).

It may be unfair but consider the course to Rotterdam, Amsterdam and similar sized races abroad. Dublin is a difficult course in comparison. Elites want to run fast times and most decide not to let a course like Dublin deprive them of precious minutes.

Not too sure of the Northside route but if Dublin is to attract the top natonal and international runners it needs to look at the course. it's prize-money or preferably even both. If it doesn't it's just a mass participation sport. I would like nothing better than to see a bunch of runners running under 2.08-2.10 in my home city.

I completely agree. That's why I was pointing out those inclines. I was just giving my perspective on the route from running it. The real top-class elites have to deal with those hills too and they slow them down. No International elite is going to pick Dublin over Berlin or Chicago if they are looking for Q standards. Realistically, the only reason a 2.09 runner will race Dublin as it is now is for a handy paycheck. Bonuses and a place finish in Berlin or Chicago might even be higher paying in those marathons with a higher likelihood of running faster. Why would they choose Dublin.

thirstywork2

Choose Dublin as a stepping stone to bigger things eg Feyisa Lilesa who won in 2.09 and then became the youngest marathon runner under 2.09 back in 2010.Also a bronze medal in the world champs in 2011.

Choose Dublin from an Irish perspective as its on their door step and great prize money.More exposure and more opportunity for sponsorship.

wgtomblin

I don't think that it's quite fair / appropriate to compare Dublin marathon with Berlin, Chicago etc.. (the so-called "majors").
Realistically, Dublin is competing with the likes of Stockholm, Copenhagen, Milan etc... and should be attracting high calibre athletes who are capable of going sub 2:10 (M) and sub 2:30 (F). And as someone already pointed out, potentially attract young stars on the up who may become future marathon major winners. This requires building the event and the "brand" over time, and attracting sponsors who will fund the expenses and prizes to ensure a good field. Sure, the course and conditions has something to do with it. Rome and Prague choose to include the central cobbled areas in their routes, which probably puts off some "elites", while other capitals have tricky hilly sections like Dublin (Brussels, Zurich among others). But I think the prize money factor is more important, proven by how the likes of Dubai and Abu-Dhabi have attracted elite fields almost from scratch. OK, one can argue that the course profile is fast, but the climate conditions are hardly optimal, even in 'winter' months.

Do most people actually care about seeing overseas elite runners in the Dublin marathon? For me, it's good to see some of Ireland's best runners competing against each other for a National title. And if some are staying away, because they prefer to run a faster time in say, Berlin, then there are plenty others who will want to win a national title, and race on home soil.

RayCun

Dublin is always going to be in the second rank of marathons. An out and back course along the river or a canal might be super flat, but you would have to run a really, really fast time for people to pay attention to a win in Dublin. And if you can run that time, there is more money else where

dublin runner

RayCun wrote: »

Dublin is always going to be in the second rank of marathons. An out and back course along the river or a canal might be super flat, but you would have to run a really, really fast time for people to pay attention to a win in Dublin. And if you can run that time, there is more money else where

Fair enough to say it may never rank as one of the majors but why couldn't it replicate a similar sized race like Rotterdam? Granted it's a flat course but they attract a great field year in year out.

Do we really want to see the marathon become like the race series half? Serious lack in depth.

RacoonQueen

dublin runner wrote: »

Fair enough to say it may never rank as one of the majors but why couldn't it replicate a similar sized race like Rotterdam? Granted it's a flat course but they attract a great field year in year out.

Do we really want to see the marathon become like the race series half? Serious lack in depth.

The race series half has depleted because of Charleville - which is probably the fastest course in Ireland and all the top runners go there now instead.

dublin runner

RacoonQueen wrote: »

The race series half has depleted because of Charleville - which is probably the fastest course in Ireland and all the top runners go there now instead.

That's true but I don't think it's that simple. I do think Charleville is the way forward though. I think their organisers have done a great job and a lot can be learned from their approach.

I just think it's a right shame that one of the biggest marathons in Europe (number-wise) cannot attract a great field.

nerraw1111

dublin runner wrote: »

That's true but I don't think it's that simple. I do think Charleville is the way forward though. I think their organisers have done a great job and a lot can be learned from their approach.

I just think it's a right shame that one of the biggest marathons in Europe (number-wise) cannot attract a great field.

But there's already Rotterdam. Dublin has found a niche as others have pointed out. You got to balance the "friendly" marathon with attracting the elites.

It's like jimmy Rabbitte. It has a bit of Dublin soul.

I'd take Dublin over a soulless run through Rotterdam.

dublin runner

nerraw1111 wrote: »

But there's already Rotterdam. Dublin has found a niche as others have pointed out. You got to balance the "friendly" marathon with attracting the elites.

It's like jimmy Rabbitte. It has a bit of Dublin soul.

I'd take Dublin over a soulless run through Rotterdam.

It's just an example and I am solely taking about the elites. Ok, this whole thing about the 'friendly marathon' is nonsense! Sorry. Yes Rotterdam is as bland as hell but it is as every bit as friendly and welcoming.

geodesic

TBH the organizers nailed their colours to the mast by choosing to cut the elite field last year. I find it hard to believe there was no other cut-able fat on the bones of an organization that pulls in well over a million in entrance fees.

By ditching the elite field at the first sign of a financial squeeze (which turned out to be completely premature in any case, as a sponsor was eventually found), they showed exactly where their priorities lie ... and it certainly was not in ensuring a competitive field. Even back in the 1980s, the Irish winners of the DCM were running significantly faster than the winning time last year.

dukeraoul

Yeah... I've said it before but (and absolutely no disrespect to Sean Herir as it was a sensational run from him) 2:17 as a winning time for a marathon that purports to be a "big city" one is an absolute joke.

tang1

Where has Sean Connolly gone to? He was showing great promise a few years ago.

groovyg

When they decided to cut the elite field last year, they had no sponsor at the time. Renault and Airtricity came on board later in the year and by then it was too late to organise for the elites to come in. You can't just ring up an agent in Kenya or Ethiopia and ask for a few fast runners to rock up and do a marathon with less than 6 months notice.

PWEI

dukeraoul wrote: »

Yeah... I've said it before but (and absolutely no disrespect to Sean Herir as it was a sensational run from him) 2:17 as a winning time for a marathon that purports to be a "big city" one is an absolute joke.

The Copenhagen marathon is roughly on par with Dublin in terms of size
The winning time for the Copenhagen marathon this year was 2:17:54 & that was by a Kenyan.
The Helsinki marathon was won in a time of 2:20:42 by another Kenyan.

You can only beat what's put in front of you and that is exactly what Sean Hehir did.

dukeraoul

PWEI wrote: »

The Copenhagen marathon is roughly on par with Dublin in terms of size
The winning time for the Copenhagen marathon this year was 2:17:54 & that was by a Kenyan.
The Helsinki marathon was won in a time of 2:20:42 by another Kenyan.

You can only beat what's put in front of you and that is exactly what Sean Hehir did.

And that is exactly why I said no disrespect whatsoever to him- he is the champ and beat all comers on the day no one can ever take that away from him. I'm just bemoaning the fact that a race that used to be won in 2:09 is being won now in 2:17s....

geodesic

groovyg wrote: »

When they decided to cut the elite field last year, they had no sponsor at the time. Renault and Airtricity came on board later in the year and by then it was too late to organise for the elites to come in. You can't just ring up an agent in Kenya or Ethiopia and ask for a few fast runners to rock up and do a marathon with less than 6 months notice.

The point was they should never have decided to cut the elite field in the first place. What was the saving, 1-2% of the annual budget?

I'm sure they could have either found the same level of savings elsewhere, or shock-horror, added a couple of euros to the entry fee to cover it.

Are detailed accounts actually published for the DCM?

nerraw1111

dukeraoul wrote: »

And that is exactly why I said no disrespect whatsoever to him- he is the champ and beat all comers on the day no one can ever take that away from him. I'm just bemoaning the fact that a race that used to be won in 2:09 is being won now in 2:17s....

It was won once in the last 10 years in a time of 2.17. For reasons that we all know.

Before that results are:
2012 2.11
2011 2.08
2010 2.08
2009 2.09

Last 7 years, besides 2013, have been sub 2.10 with two 2.11s.

You have to go back to 2003 for a time of 2.17.

Let's see what happens in 2014.

But the stats show the last five years have seen some of the quickest times, including course record.

2007 was the first sub 2.10

geodesic

nerraw1111 wrote: »

It was won once in the last 10 years in a time of 2.17. For reasons that we all know.

2:17?

Wasn't Hehir's time 2:18+?

nerraw1111

geodesic wrote: »

2:17?

Wasn't Hehir's time 2:18+?

It was. Just copied in duke's post.

Kurt Godel

geodesic wrote: »

The point was they should never have decided to cut the elite field in the first place. What was the saving, 1-2% of the annual budget?

I'm sure they could have either found the same level of savings elsewhere, or shock-horror, added a couple of euros to the entry fee to cover it.

Are detailed accounts actually published for the DCM?

1-2% of annual budget sounds about right, pretty sure those African lads will run for peanuts, and at a moments notice. They could all come over on the same bus. I hope the DM organisers are reading this informative thread- they need to stop giving so much to charity/ reopen the closed roads after 3 hours/ stop funding crazy ideas like Marathon Mission/ ask Order of Malta for a discount/ return their gold plated chauffeured cars.

We need to see those detailed accounts, like we do those other volunteer-organised Marathons like London and NY!

dna_leri

Netwerk Errer wrote: »

Everyone talks about roebuck but there is some real energy biters in the first half.

That stretch of straight through phoenix park and the steep incline under the flyover too in the first half. That's where you need to be careful and not dig into the reserves. TBH, I didn't even notice the hill at clonskeagh when I done it last year.

I heard the route used to go northside in the past. What was that route like?

I'm not from Dublin and I don't run marathons, but how did I miss the annexation of the Phoenix Park by the southsiders? Did they retake Castleknock as well?

pistol_75

dna_leri wrote: »

I'm not from Dublin and I don't run marathons, but how did I miss the annexation of the Phoenix Park by the southsiders? Did they retake Castleknock as well?

I guess they are referring to the times when the race took in a lot more Northside, out around Finglas etc.

dna_leri

pistol_75 wrote: »

I guess they are referring to the times when the race took in a lot more Northside, out around Finglas etc.

ok thanks for clearing that up

RacoonQueen

dna_leri wrote: »

I'm not from Dublin and I don't run marathons, but how did I miss the annexation of the Phoenix Park by the southsiders? Did they retake Castleknock as well?

Conyngham road is D8 on the street signs

geodesic

Kurt Godel wrote: »

1-2% of annual budget sounds about right, pretty sure those African lads will run for peanuts, and at a moments notice. They could all come over on the same bus. I hope the DM organisers are reading this informative thread- they need to stop giving so much to charity/ reopen the closed roads after 3 hours/ stop funding crazy ideas like Marathon Mission/ ask Order of Malta for a discount/ return their gold plated chauffeured cars.

We need to see those detailed accounts, like we do those other volunteer-organised Marathons like London and NY!

Well how much do you think they saved by cutting the elite field last year? €20k? €25k? €30k? €35 at a stretch?

What do you think their total budget was?

Then, do the math please before you start impuning any racism on my part with your "pretty sure those African lads will run for peanuts"

And yeah, I'd love to know how much the marathon organizers "give to charity". Individuals sponsoring other individuals account for the vast majority of charitable giving associated with the marathon. I'd suspect not less that 99.99% thereof.

pconn062

geodesic wrote: »

Well how much do you think they saved by cutting the elite field last year? €20k? €25k? €30k? €35 at a stretch?

What do you think their total budget was?

Then, do the math please before you start impuning any racism on my part with your "pretty sure those African lads will run for peanuts"

And yeah, I'd love to know how much the marathon organizers "give to charity". Individuals sponsoring other individuals account for the vast majority of charitable giving associated with the marathon. I'd suspect not less that 99.99% thereof.

You are the one making the insinuations that something is amiss, so it's up to you to provide proof regarding the budget. Throwing around ill-informed comments about the organisers of DCM without any facts to back it up is simply not acceptable.

Kurt Godel

geodesic wrote: »

Well how much do you think they saved by cutting the elite field last year? €20k? €25k? €30k? €35 at a stretch?

Good for a laugh, if nothing more, this thread!

That's the "peanuts" I referred to, based on your suggestion of adding a euro or two onto the entry fee. I'll wager that anyone giving out of this thread about the lack of elite field hasn't a clue how an elite field is assembled, the planning involved, the money involved. I know you certainly don't, going by the figures you suggest.

RayCun

dna_leri wrote: »

I'm not from Dublin and I don't run marathons, but how did I miss the annexation of the Phoenix Park by the southsiders? Did they retake Castleknock as well?

what would we want with castleknock?

dukeraoul

I certainly don't think anything is amiss w/ finances etc and generally think the organisers do a great job. I just thought last year was a bit of a farce and I'm hoping fast times return to DCM...

KielyUnusual

dukeraoul wrote: »

I certainly don't think anything is amiss w/ finances etc and generally think the organisers do a great job. I just thought last year was a bit of a farce and I'm hoping fast times return to DCM...

How is it a farce to have an open entry to a marathon and whoever runs the fastest time wins? Sounds fair enough to me. Fairly standard practice for a race.

dukeraoul

KielyUnusual wrote: »

How is it a farce to have an open entry to a marathon and whoever runs the fastest time wins? Sounds fair enough to me. Fairly standard practice for a race.

Ah forget it. Farce is the wrong word probably - I'll exit stage left as DCM isn't really my bag and probably never will be ...

geodesic

pconn062 wrote: »

You are the one making the insinuations that something is amiss, so it's up to you to provide proof regarding the budget. Throwing around ill-informed comments about the organisers of DCM without any facts to back it up is simply not acceptable.

I didn't suggest anything was amiss, other than the decision to cut the elite field was the wrong one.

Wanting to know what they actually spend their budget on, and thus how much potentially could have been saved elsewhere, is a perfectly reasonable thing.

It's not up to me to provide proof of anything if they don't publish accounts.

And news flash: the Trojans who run the marathon are not above criticism when they screw up, as they did last year.

pconn062

Anyway.....

Let's try and drag this back on topic. Eddie McGinley had a great run last year in his first outing, looked like one of the stronger runners when I seen him around the 23 mile mark.

So on the men's side we have:

Gary O'Hanlon
Eddie McGinley
Sergiu Ciobanu (?)
Martin Fagan (?)

Women:

Maria McCambridge

Anyone else?

GoTheDistance

Surely there might be a few elite male and female athletes from the UK or Europe?

youngrun

pconn062 wrote: »

Anyway.....

Let's try and drag this back on topic. Eddie McGinley had a great run last year in his first outing, looked like one of the stronger runners when I seen him around the 23 mile mark.

So on the men's side we have:

Gary O'Hanlon
Eddie McGinley
Sergiu Ciobanu (?)
Martin Fagan (?)

Women:

Maria McCambridge

Anyone else?

Paddy hamilton

wgtomblin

pconn062 wrote: »

Anyway.....

Let's try and drag this back on topic. Eddie McGinley had a great run last year in his first outing, looked like one of the stronger runners when I seen him around the 23 mile mark.

Thanks for getting this back on topic.... for now!

McGinley ran 31.30 in recent Bangor 10k. Not a remarkable time, a minute behind winner, but may not have tapered if planning for the marathon.

Fagan looks to be the pick of the bunch, but no idea if he's entering it.