have the irish learned anything

mphalo1

This recession has been hard for everyone that has stayed in Ireland and lost their job. I see some kind of movement in the economy and general small talk in the local pub on the topic of work/ finances seems positive. A lot more holiday pics on Facebook and new cars is also a great sign , but have the Irish learned anything or will they pick up where they left off. I can only see more idiots elected, more debt and more keeping up with the Jones's . I believe its going to get out of control once again really ruining my childrens future here. (That I may or may not have.)beyond repair this time , with a mini boom of 6-7 years spiraling into a future of depression and a country in negative equity and panic leading to rebellions and mass emigration. The fall of an empire with a thump is basically what I predict. It can never get out of this all or nothing trap and they've only the air we breath left to tax to get out of these holes we find ourselves in.

keith16

One thing the Irish never learned; the nuances of paragraphed writing.

SEPT 23 1989

Try not to worry look after yourself and your family after that nothing really matters if the scheme of things

MistyCheese

I now know what a tracker mortgage is.

keith16

MistyCheese wrote: »

I now know what a tracker mortgage is.

What is it? Tell the rest of us.

Seriously, has a TV ad ever fuelled a boom as much as that one did?

Frank Lee Midere

No. Just look at the accommodation and property forum.

General delight at ridiculous incresses in houses and rent which would not be acceptable in most of Europe. It's all 2006 rhetoric.

The economy grew at -0.3% last year. The year before was 2%. The previous 4 were recessions. Banks are on life support. Debt is 150% of GDP. Wages are static. Per-capita disposable is down with incresses in taxes with property and water charges to hit next year.

We had 200,000 house surpluses in 2011 which have apparantly vanished into thin air and Irish people have reacted to a tiny growth rate by playing down their savings and getting into debt again. Property porn is back. Houses outside the M50 are selling for 400k which in terms of affordability is about equal to 500k in the boom.

masonchat

mphalo1 wrote: »

This recession has been hard for everyone that has stayed in Ireland and lost their job. I see some kind of movement in the economy and general small talk in the local pub on the topic of work/ finances seems positive. A lot more holiday pics on Facebook and new cars is also a great sign , but have the Irish learned anything or will they pick up where they left off. I can only see more idiots elected, more debt and more keeping up with the Jones's . I believe its going to get out of control once again really ruining my childrens future here. (That I may or may not have.)beyond repair this time , with a mini boom of 6-7 years spiraling into a future of depression and a country in negative equity and panic leading to rebellions and mass emigration. The fall of an empire with a thump is basically what I predict. It can never get out of this all or nothing trap and they've only the air we breath left to tax to get out of these holes we find ourselves in.

Well its not so much your imaginary kids future you should be worried about they wont have much of a future here anyway, mabe your imaginary great great great grandkids might but i doubt that too.

For me its more will the banks make the same mistakes and will they be bailled out again if they do

kneemos

The slightest hint of a pick up and everyone is moaning about doom,disaster and begrudging any poor sod that might make a few shillings.

The Irish are great at making hay while the sun shines, but are crap at storing it for a rainy day!

Frank Lee Midere

kneemos wrote: »

The slightest hint of a pick up and everyone is moaning about doom,disaster and begrudging any poor sod that might make a few shillings.

True. The last people who predicted doom were totally wrong.

AlekSmart

kneemos wrote: »

The slightest hint of a pick up and everyone is moaning about doom,disaster and begrudging any poor sod that might make a few shillings.

I'm only moaning because it'd the very same folks who gambled and lost their shirts (and in the process,everybody else's too),that we are not supposed to begrudge when they suddenly resurface (now funded by the shirtless) attempting to play the exact same trick :eek:

Wompa1

Things are going to get grimmer in the next 10 years I think. Even with job growth we'll be kind of screwed. It seems like a lot of things are getting more expensive and houses\rent barely moved when things go bad.

So what's happened. I know for myself, when 2007-2008 roled around the expected entry level wage for a skilled job in my area of expertise dropped from 35k to 26k...it has since dropped to about 19k...If people are starting off that low, I'd imagine their earning potential is less throughout their career than back in the good old days. People will not be able to afford homes yet now there's a housing market. Doesn't make much sense

nullzero

MistyCheese wrote: »

I now know what a tracker mortgage is.

Something you can't get anymore.

masonchat

Is there really job growth or is it manipulated figures , i.e job bridge ce schemes internship and so on plus emiragration

anncoates

I think it's going to take about 200 years for Irish people to grasp how property cycles work instead of them being a devious plot to swindle people out of toney houses at LIDL prices.

Bongalongherb

It will all happen again, because the greed mechanism is in-built into most Irish folk. Another loop of madness we'll call it.

SaveOurLyric

They havent learned anything unfortunately.
They are a pretty unsophisticated lot, and you do not change a culture of business, politics, and personal finances even with a shock like 2008 - for a lot of people the downturn wasnt even that bad. Some excuse for them is that they were to some degree playing catch-up in a short spell with other neighbour countries, had too much money too quickly, and didnt know how to handle it. However, they are shortsighted, and left to their own devices they would quite likely make the same mistakes again if the right conditions arose. The hope for them is that the due to oversight of the EU, the more powerful countries, and the generally more responsible and prudent people of those countries, they will not be permitted to make the same mistakes again.

Shakespeare's Sister

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

They havent learned anything unfortunately.
They are a pretty unsophisticated lot, and you do not change a culture of business, politics, and personal finances even with a shock like 2008 - for a lot of people the downturn wasnt even that bad. Some excuse for them is that they were to some degree playing catch-up in a short spell with other neighbour countries, had too much money too quickly, and didnt know how to handle it. However, they are shortsighted, and left to their own devices they would quite likely make the same mistakes again if the right conditions arose. The hope for them is that the due to oversight of the EU, the more powerful countries, and the generally more responsible and prudent people of those countries, they will not be permitted to make the same mistakes again.

Who's "they" and what nationality are you?

endacl

MistyCheese wrote: »

I now know what a tracker mortgage is was.

FYP

:pac:

Foxmint

No

SaveOurLyric

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

Who's "they" and what nationality are you?

Clearly, 'the irish', as they are the subject in the post question.

(The topic is the Irish, not my nationality)

Mr. Incognito

anncoates wrote: »

I think it's going to take about 200 years for Irish people to grasp how property cycles work instead of them being a devious plot to swindle people out of toney houses at LIDL prices.

Countries with stable economic policies and proper regulation dont have property "cycles". Its not a natural pheninom.

Bank of ireland are offering to pay your stamp duty now.

That alone shows 1. They have learnt nothing 2. The regulator has learnt nothing.

maryishere

masonchat wrote: »

For me its more will the banks make the same mistakes and will they be bailled out again if they do

Good point. The bankers were not punished last time, they generally kept their full pay and bonuses. They will make the same mistakes again in time.

hfallada

Yes a few people are buying cars and going on holidays. But Germans shop in lidl and live frugally all year. This means they can afford every Germans goal of having two holidays a year. But that doesn't mean they are bad with money, they just know if you live frugally, you can treat yourself with holidays.


Irish people have learnt to be more careful with money. You never see anyone using credit cards or going to the credit union for a loan because they deserve a holiday. Irish people have learnt to live within their means

Crusades

masonchat wrote: »

Is there really job growth or is it manipulated figures , i.e job bridge ce schemes internship and so on plus emiragration

Manipulated figures.

Unemployment is going down.

However those on Jobbridge, disability, etc. is going up.

Most importantly, job quality is going down. We're now #2 in the OECD for low paying jobs. America and Ireland have highest percentages of low-paying jobs in the developed world

finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1028223.shtml

The biggest losers are ordinary workers who are increasingly finding themselves in corporate servitude and/or never-ending debt. It's not uncommon to meet people who've been working for 10 or 20 years and have zero savings and zero assets - nothing to show for it at all. Increasingly, young people are expected to work for free.

Those who benefit most are, you've guessed it, property owners and those involved in labour intensive businesses.

Emigration is still high, yet our population is increasing - for lots of unpopular reasons.

Our high quality home grown talent is exported and has been replaced with unskilled migrants. Doesn't matter who they are and where they're from - the important thing is to get them here and get them renting apartments.

Bonkers stuff. It's no way to run a country. God help whoever's next in government - they will be inheriting this unsustainable mess in a year's time.

Omackeral

One thing the Irish haven't learned.

Irish.

Crusades

hfallada wrote: »

Yes a few people are buying cars and going on holidays. But Germans shop in lidl and live frugally all year. This means they can afford every Germans goal of having two holidays a year. But that doesn't mean they are bad with money, they just know if you live frugally, you can treat yourself with holidays.


Irish people have learnt to be more careful with money. You never see anyone using credit cards or going to the credit union for a loan because they deserve a holiday. Irish people have learnt to live within their means

My friend works in car sales. Nearly all the cars being driven off the forecourts nowadays are finance plans.

Honestly, I wouldn't want to be seen in one of those white Kia/Hyundai fake 4x4s that you see going around - you can smell balloon payment a mile off. The "finance plan LEDs" are a dead giveaway. Apparently you can switch them off when you've settled the balloon.

Shakespeare's Sister

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Clearly, 'the irish', as they are the subject in the post question.

(The topic is the Irish, not my nationality)

So you're Irish. Aw, don't call yourself unsophisticated.

murphm45

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Countries with stable economic policies and proper regulation dont have property "cycles". Its not a natural pheninom.

Bank of ireland are offering to pay your stamp duty now.

That alone shows 1. They have learnt nothing 2. The regulator has learnt nothing.

That's not true the UK and the U.S. both had crashes at the same time as us and Hong Kong is notorious for it. Also Japan ring any bells ( they're still recovering from it)

Second, Bank of Ireland aren't a charity. If they're giving you 1% of the mortgage value (which is all the stamp duty is) it will be built into the interest rate and then some. Also my understanding is that mortgages are harder to come by these days and that selection process is all the regulator cares about (I.e. Are they lending appropriately).

Slightly more on topic I have to say the answer is yes given how busy shops, restaurants etc are, the rocketing house prices and what feels a little like arbitrary price inflation. I really hope I can hold tight as a dry sh!te and not get sucked in.

crockholm

I want to come home,I'm sick of sweden,please don't begrudge me those halcyon Days of 2006-we were all happy goddammit!

Iwasfrozen

It would be helpful if people would stop classifying running a deficite as an Irish thing. It's a phenomenon all across the developed world.

It's something we as a country really need to work on though. I'll be upset if I see politicians increasing spending or lowering taxes so idiots will re-elect them while we're still in debt.

187187

No, and we never will as we are a gombeen backward banana republic country

RayM

An Modh Coinníollach.

Shakespeare's Sister

Ireland is definitely similar to a Latin American dictatorship. Definitely. The way we can criticise the government all we like here and elsewhere and not get thrown into prison and stuff.

ToddyDoody

Economically We're C league don't forget: Portugal, Greece, Ireland. (Greece being the runt of the league)

Not A league a la Germany, France, Ireland.

biko

mphalo1 wrote: »

This recession has been hard for everyone that has stayed in Ireland and lost their job. I see some kind of movement in the economy and general small talk in the local pub on the topic of work/ finances seems positive. A lot

end attention span

porsche959

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

They havent learned anything unfortunately.
They are a pretty unsophisticated lot, and you do not change a culture of business, politics, and personal finances even with a shock like 2008 - for a lot of people the downturn wasnt even that bad. Some excuse for them is that they were to some degree playing catch-up in a short spell with other neighbour countries, had too much money too quickly, and didnt know how to handle it. However, they are shortsighted, and left to their own devices they would quite likely make the same mistakes again if the right conditions arose. The hope for them is that the due to oversight of the EU, the more powerful countries, and the generally more responsible and prudent people of those countries, they will not be permitted to make the same mistakes again.

The prudent people that elect corrupt charlatans like Sarkozy and Berlusconi to high office?

Or the ones that have kept interest rates at near zero for, oh, almost five years now?

Is it those responsible and prudent people you are referring to, or some others?

I am just curious. I merely seek information.

Iwasfrozen

porsche959 wrote: »

The prudent people that elect corrupt charlatans like Sarkozy and Berlusconi to high office?

Or the ones that have kept interest rates at near zero for, oh, almost five years now?

Is it those responsible and prudent people you are referring to, or some others?

I am just curious. I merely seek information.

Interest rates should be low during a recession. Lower interest rates encourage economic activity by making consumer spending and business investment cheaper.

Conversely during a boom interest rates should be higher to encourage people to save to prevent inflation.

kneemos

The Germans...the cause and solution to all of our problems.

Son Of A Vidic

mphalo1 wrote: »

have the irish learned anything

You would be better off asking have the Banks learned anything? Then again, since we are perpetually guaranteed to always bail them out. I suppose they have nothing to learn.

Foxmint

kneemos wrote: »

The Germans...the cause and solution to all of our problems.

Just like our Irish politicans, our problems are in fact, a lot closer to home.

SaveOurLyric

Foxmint wrote: »

Just like our Irish politicans, our problems are in fact, a lot closer to home.

This is so. It is within the Irish people themselves.
They have a term 'gombeen' for a short-term quick-buck merchant who looks out for himself only, without regard for his wider community or country. What they dont recognise, is that the gombeen characteristic runs through all of them to greater or lesser extents. It was the cause of the recent Celtic Crash, and such a deep cultural and collective mindset does not change over night. Or even in 5 years. But takes generations. Left fully in control of their own fate, they would go down the same unfortunate road again.

Shakespeare's Sister

Why are Irish people on this thread referring to "the Irish" and "them" as if they're separate and above them?

suicide_circus

Static wages and soaring rents here in Dublin. No chance to save enough for a deposit and no rental security. Living the dream.

renegademaster

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Try not to worry look after yourself and your family after that nothing really matters if the scheme of things

this is one of the reasons we are so screwed, it's coming together we need not staying divided and only looking out for ourselves

looking_around

suicide_circus wrote: »

Static wages and soaring rents here in Dublin. No chance to save enough for a deposit and no rental security. Living the dream.

Move out of Dublin?

suicide_circus

suicide_circus wrote: »

Static wages and soaring rents here in Dublin. No chance to save enough for a deposit and no rental security. Living the dream.

looking_around wrote: »

Move out of Dublin?

How far? By the time you've moved out far enough to afford the rent, you can't afford the commute!

Iwasfrozen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How far? By the time you've moved out far enough to afford the rent, you can't afford the commute!

Work elsewhere. Rent is high because people want to work in Dublin.

Iwasfrozen

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Work elsewhere. Rent is high because people want to work in Dublin.

It's not really a case that all people want to work in Dublin, it's more of a case of there being few jobs outside of Dublin.

There are a lot of people around here who have to commute to Dublin due to the lack of local jobs, I did it myself for years before getting a closer place of work (50km is closer than 140km). If I could get a job in the nearest town I would.

Turtyturd

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

This is so. It is within the Irish people themselves.
They have a term 'gombeen' for a short-term quick-buck merchant who looks out for himself only, without regard for his wider community or country. What they dont recognise, is that the gombeen characteristic runs through all of them to greater or lesser extents. It was the cause of the recent Celtic Crash, and such a deep cultural and collective mindset does not change over night. Or even in 5 years. But takes generations. Left fully in control of their own fate, they would go down the same unfortunate road again.

I know you're on the wind up with your generalisations but they also use the term amadáin, look it up, I think the characteristics might run through you to a greater extent.

SaveOurLyric

Turtyturd wrote: »

I know you're on the wind up with your generalisations but they also use the term amadáin, look it up, I think the characteristics might run through you to a greater extent.

Thank you. My new word for today.

Plenty of evidence here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057249879
that the Irish have truly learned little, with a low regard for the law of their land, and a poor sense of reality as they grasp for every half-baked or red herring excuse to justify their tough talk on how they will not pay their way and instead expect something for nothing. As with the property tax, it is like watching the tantrum of young child trying to resist being taught to do the right thing by its parents - but they will all end up paying in the end.