Christening

WittyName1

newtoboards wrote: »

Canon law disagree's with you as do I so we will have to agree to disagree. I think that's a simpler, far clearer, more sensible approach.

I agree with NewToBoards and facts so I too am going to have to agree to disagree.

One final point though....if I never post on boards again does that mean I am no longer a member? No.

December2012

I don't think you should do it to appease your mother.

However, what you should do is acknowledge with your mother that she has her beliefs and that she wants what she perceives to be the best for your child because she loves you both.

Respect her feelings in the matter, without changing your own.

And then ask her to do the same with you - to acknowledge where you're coming from.

You do not have to agree with each other. But you should respect each other's opinion. And then drop the matter.

December2012

December2012 wrote: »

I don't think you should do it to appease your mother.

However, what you should do is acknowledge with your mother that she has her beliefs and that she wants what she perceives to be the best for your child because she loves you both.

Respect her feelings in the matter, without changing your own.

And then ask her to do the same with you - to acknowledge where you're coming from.

You do not have to agree with each other. But you should respect each other's opinion. And then drop the matter.

Thanks, that's pretty much what I did. It couldn't have gone worse. My mother is now keeping her distance saying she won't be calling down for a period of time.

Foxmint

Sunnyspot wrote: »

Thanks, this pretty much what I did. It couldn't have gone worse. My mother is now keeping her distance saying she won't be calling down for a period of time.

Yes it could. And it sounds like it's best she doesn't untill you both cool down.

indigo twist

Sunnyspot wrote: »

Thanks, that's pretty much what I did. It couldn't have gone worse. My mother is now keeping her distance saying she won't be calling down for a period of time.

The expression regarding cutting off one's nose to spite one's face comes to mind here ... If she wants to miss out on precious time with her young grandson, it's her own decision. Don't give in to emotional blackmail.

How Strange

I think respect has to work both ways. The Op should and seems to be respectful of her mothers beliefs but her mother isnt respecting hers.

I don't see how a compromise can be reached in this situation. You can't half christen a child and I know a naming ceremony would've added insult to injury for my mother. What's worse than a christening? A non christening. As a catholic she wanted the holy water over the forehead and the renouncing of the devil.

I respect that my mother is a practising catholic who thinks baptism is essential for all babies but I'm an adult and my husband and I make parental choices. I simply ask that they respect that.

I personally believe that when you're a parent you'll always have to make tough decisions so why capitulate at the first hurdle?

I definitely don't subscribe to the theory that it's a piece of paper and a splash of water so just go along with it. Then you have to go along with the communion and confirmation for a quiet life. I'd prefer to be honest and face some tough situations and do it our way than cow tow to parents because were scared of them.

iguana

Foxmint wrote: »

Remember your mother feels this way because she truly believes it could effect her grandchild's eternity, so don't be too hard on her. Her belief that its good for the child, is a strong as yours.

If she believes that then she is a pretty crappy Catholic as following the extensive study of Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Emeritus Benedict, the RCC made clear over 22 years ago that those beliefs are not now and never actually have been church doctrine.

krudler

Sunnyspot wrote: »

Thanks, that's pretty much what I did. It couldn't have gone worse. My mother is now keeping her distance saying she won't be calling down for a period of time.

Fair play to you, there's way, way too much of this appeasing mammy thinking in regards christenings and raising kids in churches where the parents dont want to. It's your kid, your choice, your rules.

Foxmint

iguana wrote: »

If she believes that then she is a pretty crappy Catholic as following the extensive study of Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Emeritus Benedict, the RCC made clear over 22 years ago that those beliefs are not now and never actually have been church doctrine.

Calling the OP's mother a 'crappy Catholic' for believing in baptism, is not very good advice.

From the Christian viewpoint, they always claim, it's always much better to be baptised than unbaptised, as Jesus clearly commanded baptism as a requirement to be born again, in water and in spirit, and commanded the apostles and their sucessors to go forth and baptise. (That's if you believe Jesus and the new testament) So I don't see how that makes her a "crappy Catholic". Quite the opposite in fact. The church's position on that has always been the same. Unless you're getting mixed up about limbo, which was never a church doctrine in the first place, but was, and still is, a mere theological speculation term for something theologians don't know and can't decide on. Limbo was never a doctrine or a place and never will be, it's simply a term theologians use to say they don't know what happens and only God knows and decides. The media over the years, and as a result some misled Catholics, ended up believing it refered to an actual place. That's what in fact Benny was trying to clear up with the media and what he was referring to. Nothing has changed.

Of course all that is getting away from the point that it should be entirely up to a parent if their baby is baptised or not. It's not up to a Grandparent, but they are entitled to disagree and hold a differing belief/opinion, and no family needs to fall out about it.

December2012

Sunnyspot wrote: »

Thanks, that's pretty much what I did. It couldn't have gone worse. My mother is now keeping her distance saying she won't be calling down for a period of time.

Then let her calm down, think about things and come to you when she is ready.

pwurple

Have you discussed with your mother her reasons for wanting the baptism?

Most irish people are not fervent catholics, more moderate types. She may want the christening in order to invite the family and neighbours and have a lovely day welcoming the child. If this is the case, then you can possibly find a compromise, a party of some other kind.

We weren't too bothered either way... could take it or leave it. Semi-practicing, if that (mainly the party bits! Easter and christmas etc). We had a chat with families about it. Turned out it was important to them for traditional reasons. The 200 year old yellowed-with-age christening robe, the hand-crocheted shawl made by great great grandmother. That kind of thing. I like long-standing traditions, so was happy to participate in that.

She may want to child to attend a particular school. If so, investigate the enrollment policy and see if it is an issue, or decide if that is even the school yout want.

If it is the fear of eternal damnation, then I would advise a trip to the local priest to discuss it with him. He may chat to her about it. That's what I did when my dad was throwing a hissy fit about there being no communion or full mass at our wedding. Priest had a chat, all sorted.


In short... Discuss it with her. Calmly if you can.

Queen-Mise

WittyName1 wrote: »

I don't mean to pick flaws in your post but by having your kids christened you didn't really 'let the kids make up their own minds'.

It's not exactly as if they know they were christened when they are babies.

Christening doesn't magically endow the child with the entire history of the Christian faith and all that involves. The ceremony does not entail brain-washing.

It is up to them if they decide to follow the Catholic faith or not.

lazygal

Queen-Mise wrote: »

It is up to them if they decide to follow the Catholic faith or not.

Children who aren't baptized into the catholic faith also have this option.

Hello Lady!

Foxmint wrote: »

Neither parent needs to be a Catholic to have a child christened.
Non Catholics can get married in a Catholic church to Catholics.
A baptism is a record of a past event that took place.

Neither parent has to be Catholic, but by entering into the ceremony you are promising to enter your child in the Catholic faith. It is one of the sacriments of the faith. Equally, whilst a non-catholic can marry in a catholic church, they are expected to receive the sacriment of marriage. I had this discussion myself with a local priest because when we got married secular weddings outside of the registry office were only just passed into law. So initially we were thinking of a blessing in a church for convenience. However we were told that there is no such thing as a blessing of a non-catholic marriage - if some priests do it, it is at their own discretion. To have a ceremony in a catholic church we would have to have a proper catholic wedding and accept the sacriment of marriage and all that entails. We would also need to promise to raise our children catholic. My then husband to be (the non-Christian) had no issue, as to him it made no difference, but to me it was a case of standing up on a day which should be about truth and love and literally telling lies for the sake of a venue. Promising to do things you won't do etc.

Having recently attended three catholic christenings, in each and every one the priest preached about the new baby becoming a member of the faith, of the parents duty to uphold that faith, of their joining the communion of saints and the fellowship of the church. That is more than a record of an event. Now you may think its ok to zone out and ignore all that, and make promises you don't mean. But for me it screams of hypocracy and is distasteful. My children are the most precious and pure souls. When I celebrate their joining our family I don't want to do it amidst a ceremony full of promises I won't keep and lies I make just for simplicity and the sake of granny.

We had a naming ceremony for our girls. It was very spiritual, but I know others who have also had humanist totally secular ceremonies which were just as nice. The ceremony was so personal and beautiful. Even my dyed in the wool, regular church going father was very moved and said it was beautiful. There were still words like 'blessing' and they were anointed with water, with the meaning behind it being the water of life rather than washing away sin.

OP, I know your mam might not initially think that a naming ceremony would cut it, but what about a 'blessing' as such, rather than a catholic christening? As a compromise, then 'god' as she understands it is blessing the child, but there is no promise of them entering a particular faith.

Or if you are in Dublin, the United Church on Stephens green can give a christian blessing and are very open to keeping it generic and not a proclamation of faith, other than the general ethos of Christianity.

They might be options to explore?