Minimum wage increased to 11.50

jay-me · 28-09-2014 5:19pm #1

There's a debate ongoing about increasing the minimum wage to 11.50 an hour. While this might be appealing to those on minimum wage, it would cripple small to medium sized businesses.

As it stands food is at an all time low, utility bills have gone up but there is a lot less waste than before and my bills have reflected this. The one area that has really soared is the rental sector. Rents are currently off the wall in Dublin where the highest demand is, and thus landlords will be the main beneficiary's of this higher income!

Funny how they were the ones milking it right through the boom and collapse and the ones with the cash put by to buy up all the cheap property of recent times.

They will also prosper greatly from this as the increased wages will cause an influx of migrants looking for a better life who will gladly pay the exorbitant rent prices that in turn will go up even more with the increased demand. Even after rent food and whatever else they will have a lot of money saved to bring home where it will be worth a lot more

Just the rich getting richer.. Nothing new here!

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/minimum-wage-maximum-outrage-1.1944235

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/the-living-wage-should-11-45-an-hour-be-the-new-minimum-1.1941878

candytog · 28-09-2014 5:21pm

jay-me wrote: »

There's a debate ongoing about increasing the minimum wage to 11.50 an hour. While this might be appealing to those on minimum wage, it would cripple small to medium sized businesses.

As it stands food is at an all time low, utility bills have gone up but there is a lot less waste than before and my bills have reflected this. The one area that has really soared is the rental sector. Rents are currently off the wall in Dublin where the highest demand is, and thus landlords will be the main beneficiary's of this higher income!

Funny how they were the ones milking it right through the boom and collapse and the ones with the cash put by to buy up all the cheap property of recent times.

They will also prosper greatly from this as the increased wages will cause an influx of migrants looking for a better life who will gladly pay the exorbitant rent prices that in turn will go up even more with the increased demand. Even after rent food and whatever else they will have a lot of money saved to bring home where it will be worth a lot more

Just the rich getting richer.. Nothing new here!

The minimum wage is currently €3.75 by the way.

TheSheriff · 28-09-2014 5:21pm

Is this a thread about minimum wage or landlords?

Confused??

But agree with both points, the wage should be raised and rent reduced to feasible levels!

Gatling · 28-09-2014 5:23pm

Don't agree with the minimum wage increase at all .
It would literally kill business' s over night

Gatling · 28-09-2014 5:24pm

candytog wrote: »

The minimum wage is currently €3.75 by the way.

Actually it's €8.65

candytog · 28-09-2014 5:25pm

TheSheriff wrote: »

Is this a thread about minimum wage or landlords?

Confused??

But agree with both points, the wage should be raised and rent reduced to feasible levels!

Keep the minimum wage and let the market raise the price. if the cost of living is high in Dublin then Dublin businesses need to raise their hourly rate. If the Dublin businesses can't afford the labour then move out of Dublin where there are plenty of people willing to work for minimum wage.

And for heavens sake scrap the bloody scambridge because if they increase the minimum wage and keep that then even more companies will exploit it.

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2014 5:25pm

Gatling wrote: »

Actually it's €8.65

Ah nt be falling for the trap, now he's going to go on about jobbridge or somesuch.

candytog · 28-09-2014 5:26pm

Gatling wrote: »

Actually it's €8.65

Jobsbridge actually. 40 hours a week at 150 euro.

candytog · 28-09-2014 5:26pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Ah nt be falling for the trap, now he's going to go on about jobbridge.

It's relevant to the debate so he is going to go on about it.

28-09-2014 5:27pm

Hmmm, while I would be against a stupidly big jump like that I have to say I'm amazed someone has managed to make an argument linking minimum wage increases to increased immigration.

fleet_admiral · 28-09-2014 5:27pm

candytog wrote: »

The minimum wage is currently €3.75 by the way.

€8.65 is the minimum wage

Gatling · 28-09-2014 5:27pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Ah nt be falling for the trap, now he's going to go on about jobbridge or somesuch.

Tooooooo late laddy

suicide_circus · 28-09-2014 5:27pm

The title of this thread really needs to be changed to include the word "proposed"

jay-me · 28-09-2014 5:28pm

TheSheriff wrote: »

Is this a thread about minimum wage or landlords?

Confused??

But agree with both points, the wage should be raised and rent reduced to feasible levels!

A jumble of all the above.. Although I guess I mean that an increase in minimum wages, which is currently being debated, would benefit landlords the most, the very people who have been benefiting from the local economy throughout the ups and downs.

Small businesses would be destroyed in the short term, e.g small hotels etc where their income is pretty static and any extra outgoings would be severely felt. Although apparently in the US the increase in wage has helped the local economies by increasing spending. So to this end I guess we shall have to wait and see.

astrofool · 28-09-2014 5:28pm

TheSheriff wrote: »

Is this a thread about minimum wage or landlords?

Confused??

But agree with both points, the wage should be raised and rent reduced to feasible levels!

We should make the €5 note the €5000 note, we'll all be the richest kings in western Europe!

Amirani · 28-09-2014 5:28pm

candytog wrote: »

Jobsbridge actually. 40 hours a week at 150 euro.

Jobbridge is essentially an internship. It's not comparable or relevant here.

snubbleste · 28-09-2014 5:28pm

Raising minimum wage will raise the cost of living.

candytog · 28-09-2014 5:30pm

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Jobbridge is essentially an internship. It's not comparable or relevant here.

Many companies who could otherwise employ people at minimum wage are employing people as interns and saving a fortune. By increasing the minimum wage it would further incentivise more companies to do so. how is that not relevant?

Gatling · 28-09-2014 5:30pm

If landlords think there's more money to be made they will be the first to push prices up to get as much of the 11.50 ph current minimum wagers get .
Then there's the welfare increase need to keep up

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 28-09-2014 5:31pm

candytog wrote: »

Jobsbridge actually. 40 hours a week at 150 euro.

That's not a wage but an allowance. Minimum wage is a different thing altogether.

jay-me · 28-09-2014 5:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Hmmm, while I would be against a stupidly big jump like that I have to say I'm amazed someone has managed to make an argument linking minimum wage increases to increased immigration.

I think that is pretty clear cut!! A better wage = a better life hence the Irish diaspora in Australia and Canada etc etc. And don't get me wrong I don't blame anybody for trying to better their lives and especially if they take the risk of going to a foreign country away from their families and friends etc to do it! But there is definitely a blatant link there!

Gatling · 28-09-2014 5:34pm

jay-me wrote: »

I think that is pretty clear cut!! A better wage = a better life hence the Irish diaspora in Australia and Canada etc etc. And don't get me wrong I don't blame anybody for trying to better their lives and especially if they take the risk of going to a foreign country away from their families and friends etc to do it! But there is definitely a blatant link there!

There's cheaper living and stronger economies that's why not because of a higher minimum wage

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2014 5:34pm

jay-me wrote: »

I think that is pretty clear cut!! A better wage = a better life hence the Irish diaspora in Australia and Canada etc etc.!

If your earning €8.50 an hour and the wage going up by 25%, but the price of everything also goes up 25%, how are you any better off?

Celly Smunt · 28-09-2014 5:35pm

snubbleste wrote: »

Raising minimum wage will raise the cost of living.

Nah this is left think. Economic common sense doesnt apply here.

Bang_Bang · 28-09-2014 5:35pm

What a load of shíte, by increasing the minimum wage, SME's will suffer and the employee will see fcukall in terms of take home pay. The taxman will be laughing at all the increased revenue from taxes that will bring people to 54% effective (single person combined taxes).

If you want money in your pocket, a tax CUT is the only way it's going to happen, unless they raise the threshold over €32800, this will mean fcukall to anyone if it gets implemented.

candytog · 28-09-2014 5:36pm

Hezekiah Abundant Mall wrote: »

That's not a wage but an allowance. Minimum wage is a different thing altogether.

You can call their work an internship and their salary an allowance all you like but the fact of the matter is people are working 40 hours a week for 150 euro.

Gatling · 28-09-2014 5:38pm

candytog wrote: »

You can call their work an internship and their salary an allowance all you like but the fact of the matter is people are working 40 hours a week for 150 euro.

Your still wrong .

There gaining experience that will allow them to get onto the career path of there choosing yes the system has been abused but when it's used as a stepping stone it suits a lot of people

Celly Smunt · 28-09-2014 5:39pm

candytog wrote: »

You can call their work an internship and their salary an allowance all you like but the fact of the matter is people are working 40 hours a week for 150 euro.

They're hardly forced. They have the choice between education or jobbridge,if they choose jobbridge then they should choose a placement which will look good on their cv. If they pick something like stacking shelves for tesco then they probably deserve to be exploited.

stateofflux · 28-09-2014 5:39pm

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Jobbridge is essentially an internship. It's not comparable or relevant here.

it is very relevant here

Tzardine · 28-09-2014 5:41pm

candytog wrote: »

You can call their work an internship and their salary an allowance all you like but the fact of the matter is people are working 40 hours a week for 150 euro.

Well they are actually working 40 hours for €50 allowance. They get the €100 anyway if they are signed on.

The point is not relevant though. It's an internship. There are plenty of interns around the world that don't get anything at all. The point of an internship is that you get something out of it. .I.e experience in a field of work. Nobody does an internship to make money.

And raising the minimum wage to over €11 would be a disaster. A tax cut or raise the ceiling on earnings would be the best stimulus.

mikemac1 · 28-09-2014 5:41pm

How did the Labour party ever stand over a scheme like Jobbridge

So much for being the party for the workers

Gatling · 28-09-2014 5:42pm

stateofflux wrote: »

it is very relevant here

No it's not .

You either choose to take part in the scheme or you don't .

People on minimum wages are usually lacking in skills or education ( though not all ) to be able to progress up their career ladders

Bongalongherb · 28-09-2014 5:43pm

Celly Smunt wrote: »

They're hardly forced. They have the choice between education or jobbridge,if they choose jobbridge then they should choose a placement which will look good on their cv. If they pick something like stacking shelves for tesco then they probably deserve to be exploited.

Unemployed 25's and under have to take a jobbridge if they are offered it by Solas, if they refuse to take this jobbridge they will be cut-off by the DSP.

Celly Smunt · 28-09-2014 5:43pm

mikemac1 wrote: »

How did the Labour party ever stand over a scheme like Jobbridge

So much for being the party for the workers

Salmon munching socialists.

Celly Smunt · 28-09-2014 5:44pm

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Unemployed 25's and under have to take a jobbridge if they are offered it by Solas, if they refuse to take this jobbridge they will be cut-off by the DSP.

Not true,they can persue education if they wish.

smcgiff · 28-09-2014 5:45pm

candytog wrote: »

You can call their work an internship and their salary an allowance all you like but the fact of the matter is people are working 40 hours a week for 150 euro.

You may as well say the minimum wage is zero because full time students working on their studies don't get paid anything.

You're not comparing like with like. You might think it's clever thinking on your part, but it's simply wrong.

jay-me · 28-09-2014 5:46pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If your earning €8.50 an hour and the wage going up by 25%, but the price of everything also goes up 25%, how are you any better off?

Because your 200 a month savings is worth a hell of a lot more back home..........

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2014 5:46pm

Should we not include unpaid internships then?. The minimum wage is €0 so.

Tail Docker · 28-09-2014 5:47pm

mikemac1 wrote: »

How did the Labour party ever stand over a scheme like Jobbridge

So much for being the party for the workers

They are - they're providing businesses with free workers. If you're looking for workers, they're your man.

candytog · 28-09-2014 5:57pm

smcgiff wrote: »

You may as well say the minimum wage is zero because full time students working on their studies don't get paid anything.

You're not comparing like with like. You might think it's clever thinking on your part, but it's simply wrong.

You are comparing eduction to employment. I am comparing working with working.

Menas · 28-09-2014 5:57pm

One of the good arguments for increasing the minimum wage is that it may just offer extra incentive to those who will not get off welfare because €8.65 per hour is not worth it.

Get Real · 28-09-2014 5:57pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If your earning €8.50 an hour and the wage going up by 25%, but the price of everything also goes up 25%, how are you any better off?

If you raise minimum wage by 25%, it doesn't mean prices go up by 25%. Basically, this means a cost an extra 3 quid per hour for an employer.

Say a person earns 8.65 an hour and sells 100 euro worth of goods per hour/ contributes labour to that value.

Their wage will increase by 3 euro an hour, therefore their employer will need to make 103 an hour to remain as profitable as they were before.

Thats an increase of only 3% in prices. Even if that person only sold half that ie 50euro worth of goods an hour, the employer would need to make 53 an hour under the proposed new wage, raising prices 6%.

So, while there would be increases in prices, they would be smaller in proportion to the wage increases, therefore everyone is better off.

sock puppet · 28-09-2014 5:58pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If your earning €8.50 an hour and the wage going up by 25%, but the price of everything also goes up 25%, how are you any better off?

Why would that happen? For starters the 25% increase in wages would apply to a certain number of workers but the cost would be distributed across all of society so the price increase would be smaller. Secondly wages are only one component of costs. And thirdly the proportion of national income being taken up by company profits (as opposed to labour) in the western world has been rising for decades. There is surely room to reallocate some of that output towards labour without any increase in costs.

handlemaster · 28-09-2014 6:00pm

Its usually the educated that leave so the minimum wage debate there doesnt mean much. As regards landlords its risk and return. If it were a one bet like the OP is implying everyone would be at it.

jay-me · 28-09-2014 6:00pm

Trigger Happy wrote: »

One of the good arguments for increasing the minimum wage is that it may just offer extra incentive to those who will not get off welfare because €8.65 per hour is not worth it.

As someone above said, increased wages = increased outgoings whihch in turn = increased welfare.. Unfortunately we can't "entice" wasters off the dole while simultaneously punishing genuine recipients.

Menas · 28-09-2014 6:01pm

Get Real wrote: »

If you raise minimum wage by 25%, it doesn't mean prices go up by 25%. Basically, this means a cost an extra 3 quid per hour for an employer.

Say a person earns 8.65 an hour and sells 100 euro worth of goods per hour/ contributes labour to that value.

Their wage will increase by 3 euro an hour, therefore their employer will need to make 103 an hour to remain as profitable as they were before.

Thats an increase of only 3% in prices. Even if that person only sold half that ie 50euro worth of goods an hour, the employer would need to make 53 an hour under the proposed new wage, raising prices 6%.

So, while there would be increases in prices, they would be smaller in proportion to the wage increases, therefore everyone is better off.

True, but the larger companies will have less of a cost overhead increase due to higher sales. So the price impact will be larger for smaller operators (think Tesco versus your local newsagents)
In retail this will widen the gap between the independents and large chain stores with the inevitable results that more of the independents go bust.

candytog · 28-09-2014 6:03pm

Trigger Happy wrote: »

One of the good arguments for increasing the minimum wage is that it may just offer extra incentive to those who will not get off welfare because €8.65 per hour is not worth it.

I hate this mentality. During the boom unemployment was far lower than it is now. People worked because there were jobs. There are still not enough jobs. increasing minimum wage would make this even worse.

Celly Smunt · 28-09-2014 6:03pm

Trigger Happy wrote: »

One of the good arguments for increasing the minimum wage is that it may just offer extra incentive to those who will not get off welfare because €8.65 per hour is not worth it.

Nope it would just push up inflation leaving the low earners and unemployed truly fecked, as well possibly doubling dependency on social welfare and reducing tax in take.

There is no good to come from raising the minimum wage.

Menas · 28-09-2014 6:03pm

jay-me wrote: »

As someone above said, increased wages = increased outgoings whihch in turn = increased welfare.. Unfortunately we can't "entice" wasters off the dole while simultaneously punishing genuine recipients.

True, the best way to tackle the problem of the welfare trap is thru welfare reform.

Bang_Bang · 28-09-2014 6:03pm

Pay rises are a complete waste of time in the current tax system. I got promoted last year and got an extra 10k. I don't have my wife's tax credits because she's in full time work too. After increased PRSI, USC and so called income tax because of my "pay rise" I'm effectively 100 euro better off a fortnight which is equivalent to just over €2600 net PA, work that one out?

I'm still coming to terms with 42% plus increased USC and PRSI, why the fcuk anyone gets out of bed in the morning is beyond me?

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2014 6:04pm

Prices don't just rise because the minimum wage of the company making and selling the goods goes up and they then ass that amount on (you could have several companies in the chain all getting hit with wage increases from raw materials, transport, production, sales etc) . Sellers now know people have more disposable income so a percentage gets thrown on fr that. Other costs go up then because things like landlords know an extra €50 on your rent a month can be absorbed by you etc.

Welfare gets pushed up, government needs more money to pay it, tax goes up.

Minimum wage increased to 11.50

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