Minimum wage increased to 11.50

Celly Smunt

Trigger Happy wrote: »

True, the best way to tackle the problem of the welfare trap is thru welfare reform.

But what does welfare reform mean?.Its just another buzz word that has been thrown around since 2008.

Allowances have been addressed,programs put in place and unemployment figures dropped.

The only way to tackle welfare is to create jobs.Without jobs,there's always going to be a reliance on welfare.Cutting welfare would actually damage the economy.

V.W.L 11

Jobbridge is a load of sh1te,exploitation of the highest level

Gatling

V.W.L 11 wrote: »

Jobbridge is a load of sh1te,exploitation of the highest level

Not in all cases

Celly Smunt

V.W.L 11 wrote: »

Jobbridge is a load of sh1te,exploitation of the highest level

And in a circle,jobbridge isnt an employment service,its for gaining experience. Be thankful people are geting anything for internships.

Bang_Bang

Gatling wrote: »

Not in all cases

In this country you get punished for working hard and trying to provide, I agree with you about "some" job bridge appointments, I personally know a few guys that got engineering jobs through the scheme, but there are exploiters out there

V.W.L 11

Celly Smunt wrote: »

And in a circle,jobbridge isnt an employment service,its for gaining experience. Be thankful people are geting anything for internships.

But do employers consider it as real experience??? I wouldn't dream of doing it

UCDVet

I think it's funny how all over the world, people are having this very same argument. In most countries, they've raised the minimum wage countless times - but every time we talk about it, everyone acts as though it's a brand new concept.

You'd think we could just look at the historical affects and determine what the best course of action is.

Celly Smunt

V.W.L 11 wrote: »

But do employers consider it as real experience??? I wouldn't dream of doing it

Theres no requirement to state it was a paid jobbridge internship. Employers would look for a jobbridge candidate over a scratcher candidate.

Celly Smunt

UCDVet wrote: »

I think it's funny how all over the world, people are having this very same argument. In most countries, they've raised the minimum wage countless times - but every time we talk about it, everyone acts as though it's a brand new concept.

You'd think we could just look at the historical affects and determine what the best course of action is.

In times of deflation yes,but not where we're at

darkpagandeath

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Theres no requirement to state it was a paid jobbridge internship. Employers would look for a jobbridge candidate over a scratcher candidate.

Is it not cheaper in the long run to just pay this lot the €188 pw and stop pumping good money after bad ? You cut them off crime will go up. Put them in jail your paying 3-4 times more than the dole a year. Get jobs for the people who lost their's then worry about the so called wasters.

A flat rate minimum wage is a very difficult thing to quantify anyway, that €8.50(ish) an hour can result in very different standards of living depending on who is receiving it.

For example a young single man living with his parents in a house that is mortgage free, could live very well on that money, where an older man with wife and kids renting in Dublin would need to earn at least twice that to be able to earn more than what he would be live a very basic existence.

Menas

Celly Smunt wrote: »

But what does welfare reform mean?.Its just another buzz word that has been thrown around since 2008.

Allowances have been addressed,programs put in place and unemployment figures dropped.

The only way to tackle welfare is to create jobs.Without jobs,there's always going to be a reliance on welfare.Cutting welfare would actually damage the economy.

You could hardly argue that there is no need for welfare reform and that our welfare system is fully fit for purpose?

Anyway, that is a topic for a whole new thread some other day.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Bang_Bang wrote: »

Pay rises are a complete waste of time in the current tax system. I got promoted last year and got an extra 10k. I don't have my wife's tax credits because she's in full time work too. After increased PRSI, USC and so called income tax because of my "pay rise" I'm effectively 100 euro better off a fortnight which is equivalent to just over €2600 net PA, work that one out?

I'm still coming to terms with 42% plus increased USC and PRSI, why the fcuk anyone gets out of bed in the morning is beyond me?

I'm missing something. Tax, USC and PRSI will be, max, 52 per cent (ignoring pension contributions). So your net take home should be around €4,800, or €400 per month - or slightly less than €100 per week.

candytog

Raising the minimum wage is just a vote grabbing, knee jerk reaction to the Dublin problem. You have a capital with available jobs but a lack of housing and high rents which is deterring people from taking up those jobs.

Meanwhile you have the rest of country with a serious lack of jobs and plentiful low price accommodation.

Why not incentivise companies to set up or relocate outside Dublin?

darkpagandeath

candytog wrote: »

Raising the minimum wage is just a vote grabbing, knee jerk reaction to the Dublin problem. You have a capital with available jobs but a lack of housing and high rents which is deterring people from taking up those jobs.

Meanwhile you have the rest of country with a serious lack of jobs and plentiful low price accommodation.

Why not incentivise companies to set up or relocate outside Dublin?

Because people Nimby about the needed infrastructure to make that work.

Celly Smunt

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Is it not cheaper in the long run to just pay this lot the €188 pw and stop pumping good money after bad ? You cut them off crime will go up. Put them in jail your paying 3-4 times more than the dole a year. Get jobs for the people who lost their then worry about the so called wasters.

Jobbridge is about getting people jobs though. We're also in an educational inflationary period where the degree has almost become standard making experience the king of landing a job. Jobbridge,like it or not tackles that.

Obviously i agree with looking after those looking to work over the others,but without job creation (something raising the minimum wage would destroy) there'll be even less of a chance of getting the long term unemployed anywhere near an interview,never mind a job.

Jobseekers allowance in my eyes should be scrapped after claiming for 6 weeks.Find a job within that 6 weeks or be forced into an education system or work experience program.BUT before we do that,we really need to address fas and the like.Teach people skills that are needes and get people motivated to learn.When that happens then reward the candidate and encourage them to continue.

Raising the minimum wage will cease job creation,if there is too much supply you can't raise the price of the supply.

In fact the sooner the government get their nose out of the private sector the better.

shruikan2553

I dont see what minimum wage will help. Its not as simple as everyone has more money. It increases the cost of business and a person needs to be worth the 11.50 an hour vs only being worth 8.65. Then we just bring the people who are earning above minimum wage down to minimum wage or closer to it.

candytog

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Because people Nimby about the needed infrastructure to make that work.

What infrastructure would you need? There are plenty of vacant buildings, roads, electricity, water, land, labour.

V.W.L 11

As daft as this might seem I was better off on the dole than I now am working!I am a married man with 4 kids and that €8.65 doesn't go far enough if I get a second job the taxman will have it

Celly Smunt

candytog wrote: »

What infrastructure would you need? There are plenty of vacant buildings, roads, electricity, water, land, labour.

Public infrastructure such as schools,buses amenities etc.

candytog

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Jobbridge is about getting people jobs though. We're also in an educational inflationary period where the degree has almost become standard making experience the king of landing a job. Jobbridge,like it or not tackles that.

Obviously i agree with looking after those looking to work over the others,but without job creation (something raising the minimum wage would destroy) there'll be even less of a chance of getting the long term unemployed anywhere near an interview,never mind a job.

Jobseekers allowance in my eyes should be scrapped after claiming for 6 weeks.Find a job within that 6 weeks or be forced into an education system or work experience program.BUT before we do that,we really need to address fas and the like.Teach people skills that are needes and get people motivated to learn.When that happens then reward the candidate and encourage them to continue.

Raising the minimum wage will cease job creation,if there is too much supply you can't raise the price of the supply.

In fact the sooner the government get their nose out of the private sector the better.

Jobs get people jobs. When there are enough jobs everyone works bar a small minority. Jobsbride is a way for the government to lower the live register figures and give companies cheap labour.

There are plenty of people out there with years and years of experience who cannot get jobs.

experience is not the issue, lack of jobs is, and raising the minimum wage would make that worse.

darkpagandeath

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Because people Nimby about the needed infrastructure to make that work.

We've just finished a motorway network that covers much of the country, so that excuse really doesn't work. There are plenty of jobs that only need minimal infrastructure anyway, anything IT related for example just needs an office with a decent broadband connection.

darkpagandeath

candytog wrote: »

What infrastructure would you need? There are plenty of vacant buildings, roads, electricity, water, land, labour.

You can't stick a load of power hungry water hungry businesses next to small towns without upgrading the local infrastructure. You would burn out the local grid and reduce water pressure in the surrounding area for a start. Then there is transport waste management policing access to medical care. The list goes on. It’s not as easy as saying go build there.

Celly Smunt

candytog wrote: »

Jobs get people jobs. When there are enough jobs everyone works bar a small minority. Jobsbride is a way for the government to lower the live register figures and give companies cheap labour.

There are plenty of people out there with years and years of experience who cannot get jobs.

experience is not the issue, lack of jobs is, and raising the minimum wage would make that worse.

You're agreeing and disagreeing with me here.

Jobbridge is by no way perfect,though it fills a vacuum which those in other counyries have to take part in by undertaking unpaid internships. As i said earlier,the candidate has the choice of perusuing education or gaining relevent experience which will fyrther their opportuinites. Yes some companies exploit jobbridge,though these should be easily spotted.

As for the rest you're agreeing with me.

candytog

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Public infrastructure such as schools,buses amenities etc.

Most people outside Dub drive cars and last time I checked there are plenty of schools.

Also if a new factory opens up in a town it has a knock on effect of introducing other businesses.

Bang_Bang

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

I'm missing something. Tax, USC and PRSI will be, max, 52 per cent (ignoring pension contributions). So your net take home should be around €4,800, or €400 per month - or slightly less than €100 per week.

No it's 54% and €4800 is way off the reality, I use various tax calculators to work this out, as for pension contributions. I have stopped paying mine and invested in BOI 2 years ago @ 17 cents, it's now doubled. I did toy with the "unethical stock" but decided against it as a human.

I'm not telling porkies here, it's just a reality of the real world, I get taxed to the hilt because two of us are working full time, the wife pays something similar, if not more. The tax system is totally against the working contributors to the economy in Ireland.

candytog

darkpagandeath wrote: »

You can't stick a load of power hungry water hungry businesses next to small towns without upgrading the local infrastructure. You would burn out the local grid and reduce water pressure in the surrounding area for a start. Then there is transport waste management policing access to medical care. The list goes on. It’s not as easy as saying go build there.

Dublin has the water problem so moving industry out would actually help that. Plus we are not always talking about giant power consuming factories.

Gatling

candytog wrote: »

Most people outside Dub drive cars and last time I checked there are plenty of schools.

Also if a new factory opens up in a town it has a knock on effect of introducing other businesses.

Most if not all schools are over subscribed and many have 4+ years waiting lists

kippy

Gatling wrote: »

Your still wrong .

There gaining experience that will allow them to get onto the career path of there choosing yes the system has been abused but when it's used as a stepping stone it suits a lot of people

Its a joke of a system. Not a few years ago people got this experience as part of their college courses. Now those in college find it hard to get the experience. Its nothing but an exercise in number moving.

Gatling

kippy wrote: »

Its a joke of a system. Not a few years ago people got this experience as part of their college courses. Now those in college find it hard to get the experience

more down to the fact record numbers are in college and record numbers are returning to education .
Making fewer positions available to those who are working and studying

Laois6556

If people's wages are cut does that reduce the cost of living? I think we should do more of that, some people get too much money for their cushy jobs. Cut their wages or tax them more or whatever and watch the cost of living fall. Then there'd be no need to increase minimum wage. I'm a genious.

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

Most if not all schools are over subscribed and many have 4+ years waiting lists

That's more of a demographic thing due to the recent (mostly migrant) baby boom, not true in many rural areas though. One school on my route to work recently closed due to falling numbers.

candytog

Gatling wrote: »

more down to the fact record numbers are in college and record numbers are returning to education .
Making fewer positions available to those who are working and studying

That's because they are being forced to because it's either that or an internship!

Celly Smunt

candytog wrote: »

That's because they are being forced to because it's either that or an internship!

This just shows how cushy we have it really.

Paid education or paid work experience,how awful.

Laois6556

Laois6556 wrote: »

If people's wages are cut does that reduce the cost of living? I think we should do more of that, some people get too much money for their cushy jobs. Cut their wages or tax them more or whatever and watch the cost of living fall. Then there'd be no need to increase minimum wage. I'm a genious.

Giving them rent free accommodation would achieve the same thing.

Do you remember "Upstairs-Downstairs" :P

coolemon

An increase in the minimum wage would be great news. Many of the unviable SMEs which exist by offsetting the actual costs of labour would be driven out of business.

Laois6556

Celly Smunt wrote: »

This just shows how cushy we have it really.

Paid education or paid work experience,how awful.

It's either education and apply for a grant, jobsbridge and work for nothing or emigrate. That's not really cushy.

candytog

Celly Smunt wrote: »

This just shows how cushy we have it really.

Paid education or paid work experience,how awful.

I agree that back to education is cushy but totally disagree that an internship is cushy

Celly Smunt

candytog wrote: »

I agree that back to education is cushy but totally disagree that an internship is cushy

Internships by traditional ehtos are unpaid,how is 250 a week for one not advantageous?

candytog

Deleted User wrote: »

Giving them rent free accommodation would achieve the same thing.

Do you remember "Upstairs-Downstairs" :P

That's not a bad idea! work with us and we will pay your rent. I can see rents rising pretty rapidly tho

smcgiff

candytog wrote: »

You are comparing eduction to employment. I am comparing working with working.

No, Internship is set up for you to learn skills (We are aware it gets abused, but that's a different discussion) for a maximum period of 9 months . You get a top up to your social welfare, but it is still social welfare.

Celly Smunt

Laois6556 wrote: »

It's either education and apply for a grant, jobsbridge and work for nothing or emigrate. That's not really cushy.

So getting paid to go to third level or getting paid work experience which will benefit the recipient isn't a good deal in The Situation one would find themselves when unemployed?

Jesus.

candytog

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Internships by traditional ehtos are unpaid,how is 250 a week for one not advantageous?

150-238 depending on your age. And tell me, how many people do you know did unpaid internships before jobsbride?

Laois6556

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Internships by traditional ehtos are unpaid,how is 250 a week for one not advantageous?

Dole is 188 so they're working full time for 50 euros extra. The cost of the commute probably wouldn't be covered by that 50. People want to work and get paid fairly for it, what have you got against that?

Daveysil15

I really hope it goes ahead because rent is ridiculously high for anyone on minimum wage.

dr.bollocko

We have to create enough of a gap between dole and full time employment for full time employment to be the goal. I would think a combination of lowering social welfare and incentivising low wage workers somehow would help to counter the people who think money comes from the post office every week.

Celly Smunt

candytog wrote: »

150-238 depending on your age. And tell me, how many people do you know did unpaid internships before jobsbride?

I for one.

Smidge

Gatling wrote: »

Your still wrong .

There gaining experience that will allow them to get onto the career path of there choosing yes the system has been abused but when it's used as a stepping stone it suits a lot of people

Actually, i know of a 46 year old mother of 3 who has been married for almost 20 years and has kept a home for the duration of that.

She's on a jobsbridge as a cleaner.
Definite experience gained for her there :rolleyes:

Laois6556

Celly Smunt wrote: »

So getting paid to go to third level or getting paid work experience which will benefit the recipient isn't a good deal in The Situation one would find themselves when unemployed?

Jesus.

How about they get paid fairly for doing full time work? Radical thinking I know.

Celly Smunt

Laois6556 wrote: »

Dole is 188 so they're working full time for 50 euros extra. The cost of the commute probably wouldn't be covered by that 50. People want to work and get paid fairly for it, what have you got against that?

Because it.is.not.an.employment.service. When You go to jobbridge,You attend on an internship basis to gain experience in The field not to etch out a career in that post.