BCW Debt Collection using my 6 year old child's details

Jayop

I left Bord Gais a few months ago. My last bill was issued on 16th of July this year for €169. By the 22nd of July I received my first contact from this BCW company apparently on behalf of Bord Gais. I informed them I was paying this debt directly with Bord Gais and that it would be paid off in full. The proceeded to text, send letters and call me every few days regularly quoting incorrect amounts on their correspondence.

As chance would have it, as promised I paid the final amount I owed them last week (again directly to Bord Gais), however this afternoon my wife received the a text from BCW naming my 6 year old son and asking for him to contact them directly.

1) How could they get my sons full name?
2) Is there any way I can force them to remove a 6 year old child's details from their system?
3) Is a 3rd party debt collection legally allowed to hold such information?

rubadub

I would be thinking the simplest things first, is your name similar to his and simply a mix up/typo.

Did you ask them? I would not even mention that you have a son and see what they say when you ask them who they are talking about.

Jayop

rubadub wrote: »

I would be thinking the simplest things first, is your name similar to his and simply a mix up/typo.

Did you ask them? I would not even mention that you have a son and see what they say when you ask them who they are talking about.

His name is completely different to mine and they even included my wife's maiden name which they would have had no record of from my communications with Bord Gais.

i.e. they called him (First Name) (Wife's Maiden Name) (My Surname)

This worried me even more because although on my sons birth cert we only had my surname, on our older childs we had her name in the format above. It's very strange.

I'll be calling them tomorrow. I'm glad I was at work today when I got the text because I would have gone mental with them and that wouldn't have helped. I'm also considering speaking to a solicitor before I call them though.

Mountjoy Mugger

Get on to the Data Commissioner too. This doesn't seem right.

Jayop

Mountjoy Mugger wrote: »

Get on to the Data Commissioner too. This doesn't seem right.

I hadn't thought about that. Will do.

Degag

To answer one of your questions - it is legal. Bord Gais like every other company would have it in their t&c's adv they can pass your data to any of their agents.

As to how Bord Gais or the other crowd could have your son's details - beats me.

sydthebeat

Degag wrote: »

To answer one of your questions - it is legal. Bord Gais like every other company would have it in their t&c's adv they can pass your data to any of their agents.

As to how Bord Gais or the other crowd could have your son's details - beats me.

This man's six year old son certainly isn't a customer of bord gais so i cannot see how in any realm of existence it can be legal to share such information with a debt collection company.

Jayop

Degag wrote: »

To answer one of your questions - it is legal. Bord Gais like every other company would have it in their t&c's adv they can pass your data to any of their agents.

As to how Bord Gais or the other crowd could have your son's details - beats me.

Oh I know they can have and pass on my information, I was referring to the legality of them somehow having my sons information and my wife's maiden name which I've never given to them.

Gatling

Do you have Facebook and or twitter or other social media accounts

Degag

sydthebeat wrote: »

This man's six year old son certainly isn't a customer of bord gais so i cannot see how in any realm of existence it can be legal to share such information with a debt collection company.

Of course not, I was simply stating that companies can legally pass customer details to Third Parties.

OP is their any other family member with the same name as your son who could have held an account with Bord Gais?

Jayop

Gatling wrote: »

Do you have Facebook and or twitter or other social media accounts

Yes to both although nothing personal ever goes on my twitter account.

Jayop

Degag wrote: »

Of course not, I was simply stating that companies can legally pass customer details to Third Parties.

OP is their any other family member with the same name as your son who could have held an account with Bord Gais?

No, he's the only one with that forename, but even so the fact the referred to him with both my surname and my wife's maiden name would lead me to believe this isn't a simple mixup with someone else.

Czarcasm

OP this may sound completely off the wall, but around the time they were cleaning up the electoral register, my wife for reasons I really didn't bother to ask, put our son's name down on the electoral register. He gets his polling card every time there's an election, even though he's not eligible to vote for another nine years yet.

I'm wondering could they have gotten your wife's name from the electoral register, which are public records, though how they got your child's name certainly baffles me, as that sounds like more than just a clerical error of some sort, and highly unusual for a Debt Collection Agency even to have used this information in the manner they did.

Gatling

Jayop wrote: »

Yes to both although nothing personal ever goes on my twitter account.

And here is the open door ,chances are they have searched your name on social networks and that of your wife and both your friends lists to gain info on you ,
Don't be surprised if you or your wife or family and friends have accepted friends request's from individuals working on behalf of the company

DMcL1971

If a debt collection agency are having difficulty contacting you, they will try and contact you through family members instead. For this they would use publicly available information. Births, deaths, marriages and polling information are all a matter of public record. They may have gotten your sons details from his birth certificate. I presume they did not pay much attention to his date of birth though, as ringing him is a bit pointless.

The usual would be for them to contact your parents or siblings in the hopes of embarrassing you into paying. It is not very pleasant but it is not illegal. Of course if you have been paying bord gais then they should have already backed off. I would advise you to ring bord gais and ask them to call off the debt agency.

COYVB

What was the context of the use of your son's name?

Jayop

Czarcasm wrote: »

OP this may sound completely off the wall, but around the time they were cleaning up the electoral register, my wife for reasons I really didn't bother to ask, put our son's name down on the electoral register. He gets his polling card every time there's an election, even though he's not eligible to vote for another nine years yet.

I'm wondering could they have gotten your wife's name from the electoral register, which are public records, though how they got your child's name certainly baffles me, as that sounds like more than just a clerical error of some sort, and highly unusual for a Debt Collection Agency even to have used this information in the manner they did.

The electoral register makes sense to have the surname but as you say not the child's name.

Jayop

DMcL1971 wrote: »

If a debt collection agency are having difficulty contacting you, they will try and contact you through family members instead. For this they would use publicly available information. Births, deaths, marriages and polling information are all a matter of public record. They may have gotten your sons details from his birth certificate. I presume they did not pay much attention to his date of birth though, as ringing him is a bit pointless.

The usual would be for them to contact your parents or siblings in the hopes of embarrassing you into paying. It is not very pleasant but it is not illegal. Of course if you have been paying bord gais then they should have already backed off. I would advise you to ring bord gais and ask them to call off the debt agency.

The debt is completely gone now so I imagine they'll back of now anyway.

Surely using and even holding the details of a minor us illegal in a situation like this. If they somehow got this information from bird gais, a semi state, them it makes me even more worried about giving my information to something like Irish water. Would they pass on our kids pps details to debt collection agencies?

Jayop

COYVB wrote: »

What was the context of the use of your son's name?

This was the message (removed personal details)

Hello could xxx xxx xxx please contact BCW urgently on 018035111 quoting unique reference xxx. Thank you.

DMcL1971

Jayop wrote: »

The debt is completely gone now so I imagine they'll back of now anyway.

Surely using and even holding the details of a minor us illegal in a situation like this. If they somehow got this information from bird gais, a semi state, them it makes me even more worried about giving my information to something like Irish water. Would they pass on our kids pps details to debt collection agencies?

I don't think bord gais would have passed on this information. The collection agency would just receive a list of account holders, addresses, how much they owe and how old the debt is. Using your name and address anyone can look up the electoral register to find the name of any other adults in your house. They can check to see if any of you have ever been married or had any children. It is all publicly available information to anyone who wants it and is therefore not illegal to hold.

Most people don't realise just how much of their information is publicly available. Collection agencies can use many different perfectly legal ways to find out a lot about you. If anyone chooses to combine this information with what they could find on Facebook, Twitter, boards etc you would be amazed what they could put together about you.

DMcL1971

That SMS is exactly the kind of thing they use as an embarrassment technique, though normally not directed at a 6 year old. Normally that would be sent to your dad or mum or wife. The recipient would ring up and be told that they are looking for you to pay a debt owed. Then your mum or dad or wife rings you in a panic. You are mortified and immediately pay up to avoid any further messages. Nasty but effective.

foggy_lad

DMcL1971 wrote: »

That SMS is exactly the kind of thing they use as an embarrassment technique, though normally not directed at a 6 year old. Normally that would be sent to your dad or mum or wife. The recipient would ring up and be told that they are looking for you to pay a debt owed. Then your mum or dad or wife rings you in a panic. You are mortified and immediately pay up to avoid any further messages. Nasty but effective.

Also illegal because telling a third party you owe them money or that you have any business at all with them is a breach of data protection.

ezra_pound

Jayop wrote: »

His name is completely different to mine and they even included my wife's maiden name which they would have had no record of from my communications with Bord Gais.

i.e. they called him (First Name) (Wife's Maiden Name) (My Surname)

This worried me even more because although on my sons birth cert we only had my surname, on our older childs we had her name in the format above. It's very strange.

I'll be calling them tomorrow. I'm glad I was at work today when I got the text because I would have gone mental with them and that wouldn't have helped. I'm also considering speaking to a solicitor before I call them though.

Every birth certificate has the mother's surname on it (and her maiden surname if it is different).

d9oiu2wk07blr5

First things first, get on to the Data Protection Commissioner. Second, your six year old son is a minor, he's not of a legal age to enter in to a contract, and there was no contract in place between the two parties.

I'd also consider making a complaint to the Financial Services Ombudsman.

http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Data-Protection-in-the-Banking-and-Insurance-Sectors/1249.htm

delahuntv

Seems they are licensed and have a lot of leeway in what they can use.

http://www.dataprotection.ie/registry-details/5271%2FA.htm

Also, is it a data protection issue as they have not disclosed detail to a third party? Its sneaky and underhand, but whether its a breach of data protection is debatable as they have not permitted private data go into unconnected third party hands.

foggy_lad

It could be that some of their employees or investigators got the information from agencies like the social welfare or health service by claiming to be someone else?

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/data-protection-commissioner-entirely-unsatisfied-with-dept-of-social-protection-29957387.html

http://www.thejournal.ie/hundreds-of-social-welfare-records-in-data-protection-breach-354385-Feb2012/

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/commissioner-investigating-alleged-data-breach-by-credit-union-investigators-639334.html

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/irish-water-investigate-possible-data-protection-breach-30577491.html

my3cents

delahuntv wrote: »

Seems they are licensed and have a lot of leeway in what they can use.

http://www.dataprotection.ie/registry-details/5271%2FA.htm

Also, is it a data protection issue as they have not disclosed detail to a third party? Its sneaky and underhand, but whether its a breach of data protection is debatable as they have not permitted private data go into unconnected third party hands.

The data protection issue is also that BCW are storing incorrect information. So in this case how long will BCW keep this childs name in connection with this non existent debt on their database?

former legend

I have to say OP, I'm just baffled that your first course of action was to come on to boards.ie rather than ringing them back straight away and demanding answers directly from them. If you've paid the debt then you have no reason to avoid them any more.

James esq

Unless you have mistakenly put you son's name on the electoral register or mistakenly supplied his details to another party .. you should contact the Garda.

Cabaal

James esq wrote: »

Unless you have mistakenly put you son's name on the electoral register or mistakenly supplied his details to another party .. you should contact the Garda.

Its not a matter for the Gardai, it'll only waste Gardai time.

The Data Protection Office would be the best port of call, and also a formal complaint to the debt company and BG.

OP, please don't waste Gardai time with something like this.

Fred Swanson

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