Tenant won't leave & filed dispute with PRTB

Maddylicious

Hi everyone.

I hope some of you can help me! I'm majorly stressed out at the moment. To cut a long story short I served my tenant with a 14 day notice for arrears and then a 28 day notice in July. The tenant was supposed to be out before the end of August and they asked me for more time.. They've a number of children and being the decent (or naive) person I am I gave them an extra month. They were supposed to be out last week and are now refusing to leave saying that they've filed a dispute with the PRTB that I didn't give them enough notice. I'm not concerned with the dispute as I know I gave them adequate notice. I'm concerned with how long it'll take the PRTB to come to its findings.

I became an inadvertent landlord as I had to move back in with my parents a couple of years ago. I would now like to move into my own house as my parents want to sell and downsize. Does the fact that I want to move into the property speed things up with the PRTB at all?

Do people advise I just wait it out for the PRTB's findings or should I try another option? If so what are my options without breaking civil law. I know I can call up every day and just be a nuisance by annoying them constantly but apart from that what can I do? Does anyone have any tips with how to get them out or how to speed up the whole PRTB process? I'm really racking my brain trying to out smart them..

I can't afford for this to drag on for the best part of a year and I need some solid advice! All advice welcome here or by pm

foggy_lad

Maddylicious wrote: »

Hi everyone.

I hope some of you can help me! I'm majorly stressed out at the moment. To cut a long story short I served my tenant with a 14 day notice for arrears and then a 28 day notice in July. The tenant was supposed to be out before the end of August and they asked me for more time.. They've a number of children and being the decent (or naive) person I am I gave them an extra month. They were supposed to be out last week and are now refusing to leave saying that they've filed a dispute with the PRTB that I didn't give them enough notice. I'm not concerned with the dispute as I know I gave them adequate notice. I'm concerned with how long it'll take the PRTB to come to its findings.

I became an inadvertent landlord as I had to move back in with my parents a couple of years ago. I would now like to move into my own house as my parents want to sell and downsize. Does the fact that I want to move into the property speed things up with the PRTB at all?

Do people advise I just wait it out for the PRTB's findings or should I try another option? If so what are my options without breaking civil law. I know I can call up every day and just be a nuisance by annoying them constantly but apart from that what can I do? Does anyone have any tips with how to get them out or how to speed up the whole PRTB process? I'm really racking my brain trying to out smart them..

I can't afford for this to drag on for the best part of a year and I need some solid advice! All advice welcome here or by pm

You have given them the correct notice if they were in arrears with the rent, Maybe you should contact them and inform them that the notice is due to the arrears so you only have to give 14 days then 28 days notice of eviction. They think they are entitled to more because you want to move back in.

You are not allowed to call to the house every day as you suggested because even though you have given the tenants notice they are still "living" in the house and are still entitled to peaceful enjoyment of the property.

NGC999888

Maddylicious wrote: »

Hi everyone.

I hope some of you can help me! I'm majorly stressed out at the moment. To cut a long story short I served my tenant with a 14 day notice for arrears and then a 28 day notice in July. The tenant was supposed to be out before the end of August and they asked me for more time.. They've a number of children and being the decent (or naive) person I am I gave them an extra month. They were supposed to be out last week and are now refusing to leave saying that they've filed a dispute with the PRTB that I didn't give them enough notice. I'm not concerned with the dispute as I know I gave them adequate notice. I'm concerned with how long it'll take the PRTB to come to its findings.

I became an inadvertent landlord as I had to move back in with my parents a couple of years ago. I would now like to move into my own house as my parents want to sell and downsize. Does the fact that I want to move into the property speed things up with the PRTB at all?

Do people advise I just wait it out for the PRTB's findings or should I try another option? If so what are my options without breaking civil law. I know I can call up every day and just be a nuisance by annoying them constantly but apart from that what can I do? Does anyone have any tips with how to get them out or how to speed up the whole PRTB process? I'm really racking my brain trying to out smart them..

I can't afford for this to drag on for the best part of a year and I need some solid advice! All advice welcome here or by pm

Sounds like a perfect example of why not to become a landlord in Ireland.

Maddylicious

foggy_lad wrote: »

You are not allowed to call to the house every day as you suggested because even though you have given the tenants notice they are still "living" in the house and are still entitled to peaceful enjoyment of the property.

@foggy_lad duly noted. I thought calling at the door to ask them to leave on a regular basis was within my rights considering the tenant is refusing to leave after his notice date

foggy_lad wrote: »

You have given them the correct notice if they were in arrears with the rent, Maybe you should contact them and inform them that the notice is due to the arrears so you only have to give 14 days then 28 days notice of eviction. They think they are entitled to more because you want to move back in.

I said this to them verbally and also explained this to a mediator from threshold last month yet they still filed a dispute for inadequate notice

foggy_lad

how long were they tenants? was there a lease in place or part 4 tenancy? did they pay the arrears within the 14 days?

xper

Have you raised a counter dispute with the PRTB for over-holding? This may or may not hurry things along.

The_Conductor

xper wrote: »

Have you raised a counter dispute with the PRTB for over-holding? This may or may not hurry things along.

You need to do this immediately- and also a claim for all the rental arrears.
Its unfortunate that you're in this situation- now its damage limitation mode (literally).

ted1

If you have given them the correct notice, then just move in and change the lock.

D3PO

ted1 wrote: »

If you have given them the correct notice, then just move in and change the lock.

DO NOT do this.

Victor

ted1 wrote: »

If you have given them the correct notice, then just move in and change the lock.

Do not advise people to engage in legally precarious behaviour.

Moderator

Maddylicious

foggy_lad wrote: »

how long were they tenants? was there a lease in place or part 4 tenancy? did they pay the arrears within the 14 days?

Lease was in place but not part 4. They didn't pay the arrears in the 14 days and they're tenants 3 years at time of notice served.

The_Conductor wrote: »

You need to do this immediately- and also a claim for all the rental arrears.
Its unfortunate that you're in this situation- now its damage limitation mode (literally).

Did this online over the weekend.. Is this not just another money making scam (had to pay e15) or does it actually speed things up?

Victor

Maddylicious wrote: »

Lease was in place but not part 4. They didn't pay the arrears in the 14 days and they're tenants 3 years at time of notice served.

If they have been there for three years, they are entitled to whatever protections the lease and Part 4 offers. That said, they need to pay the rent.

Michael D Not Higgins

Maddylicious wrote: »

Did this online over the weekend.. Is this not just another money making scam (had to pay e15) or does it actually speed things up?

Well, how's it going to look to the PRTB when it comes to it and you haven't even bothered to counterclaim? Can't be too much worry for you if you haven't exhausted the legal channels.

Hope it goes well for you, but there is significant delays in the PRTB process, due to a number of difficulties in the volume of complaints and possibly understaffing.

drumswan

OP, if you gave 28 says notice and then an extra month, you effectively revoked the 28 days notice. Have you told the tenant that you want to move in? Then you owe them 84 days notice.

Maddylicious

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Well, how's it going to look to the PRTB when it comes to it and you haven't even bothered to counterclaim? Can't be too much worry for you if you haven't exhausted the legal channels.

Hope it goes well for you, but there is significant delays in the PRTB process, due to a number of difficulties in the volume of complaints and possibly understaffing.

As I said I've done this. I was simply enquiring as to the benefit of doing this and whether it actually speeds the process up.

drumswan wrote: »

OP, if you gave 28 says notice and then an extra month, you effectively revoked the 28 days notice. Have you told the tenant that you want to move in? Then you owe them 84 days notice.

I'm confused to how you figure I owe them 84 days notice? I'd like to know where its written that by allowing them more time the 28 days notice is revoked. I did everything according to the guidelines set out on the Threshold and PRTB websites. I served them with their notice in July and they refused to move in August asking for more time. What was my alternative to throw them out on the street?

Gatling

Maddylicious wrote: »

What was my alternative to throw them out on the street?

This coming from a tenant ,

Your a landlord not a housing charity ,

You gave an inch and now your tenants are taking a mile ,

Are these professional tenants or rent supplement tenants

Maddylicious

Gatling wrote: »

This coming from a tenant ,

Your a landlord not a housing charity ,

You gave an inch and now your tenants are taking a mile ,

Are these professional tenants or rent supplement tenants

Rent supplement and non Irish nationals.

SpaceTime

The PRTB really should do an online course in how to be a landlord.
Too many people are going in with their eyes shut.

Maddylicious

SpaceTime wrote: »

The PRTB really should do an online course in how to be a landlord.
Too many people are going in with their eyes shut.

If they did a course I wouldnt have acted any differently because I did everything by their guidelines. Any such course laying out their recommendations would land me in the same situation anyway.

SpaceTime

Maddylicious wrote: »

If they did a course I wouldnt have acted any differently because I did everything by their guidelines. Any such course laying out their recommendations would land me in the same situation anyway.

I'm not saying that you didn't.
I just think it would be a good idea as there are loads of regulations and requirements that aren't commonly understood.

Little Miss Cutie

Maddylicious wrote: »

If they did a course I wouldnt have acted any differently because I did everything by their guidelines. Any such course laying out their recommendations would land me in the same situation anyway.

OP, I am sorry to tell you this could be a long long process. My parents were in a similar situation and it took nearly two years before the property was vacated.

Sure look at this case, took years! http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/standoff-between-evicted-couple-and-security-personnel-at-house-30541264.html

Sorry to be negative but I think this is a long road for most people

foggy_lad

drumswan wrote: »

OP, if you gave 28 says notice and then an extra month, you effectively revoked the 28 days notice. Have you told the tenant that you want to move in? Then you owe them 84 days notice.

OP is evicting the tenants for arrears not because they are moving into the house themselves so proper notice has been given.

eyescreamcone

Some people might recommend "just get them out the door" and pay any PRTB fine if it arises down the road.

Of course I wouldn't recommend doing anything illegal 

godtabh

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Some people might recommend "just get them out the door" and pay any PRTB fine if it arises down the road.

Of course I wouldn't recommend doing anything illegal 

You havent a clue. The fine could be in the tens of thousands depending on how it is handled.

PRTB are very slow to deal with. I'm a claim in since the 3rd of Jan this year and still not fully sorted.

Flippyfloppy

I'm not well read on any of this, but maybe don't make a big thing about wanting to move back in. The thing is you need them out NOW and you need the rental arrears they are accruing too.

godtabh

eyescreamcone wrote: »

How much rent have you lost/ likely to lose?
+ how much damage in euro has been done to your property?

What is the real likelihood of a fine topping the above totals?

Do the maths as they say!

Damage and arrears is approx €3000. The fine for an illegal eviction is €20,000. Will I get you a calculator?

testicle

Victor wrote: »

If they have been there for three years, they are entitled to whatever protections the lease and Part 4 offers. That said, they need to pay the rent.

They are being evicted, 28 days applies.

D3PO

godtabh wrote: »

Damage and arrears is approx €3000. The fine for an illegal eviction is €20,000. Will I get you a calculator?

No its not. Well done on picking a random figure out of your arse though.

Thats got about as much weight as me saying not paying your bus fare will cost you €5,000

Maybe go review some tribunal awards for illegal eviction and see the varied awards based on circumstance rather than spouting crap.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

eyescreamcone

godtabh wrote: »

Damage and arrears is approx €3000. The fine for an illegal eviction is €20,000. Will I get you a calculator?

It can sometimes be that high.
However it usually is not

You're not down too much as it is sohang tight for the PRTB to sort it out for you

Michael D Not Higgins

Maddylicious wrote: »

As I said I've done this. I was simply enquiring as to the benefit of doing this and whether it actually speeds the process up.

Unfortunately, I don't think so. The process is slow and you just have to wait. The whole thing is weighted in favour of the tenants too, as refusing to move out and waiting for the PRTB case can mean thousands in lost rental income that you'll never be able to claim back from low income/state benefit tenants.

On the other hand, a landlord can have fines of thousands dropped on them for failing to comply with the regulations or illegal evictions.

Because of the lopsided results, some tenants tend to dig their heels in and wait for the PRTB's slow rumbling, while the landlords tend to back down as soon as a PRTB case is opened.

I haven't heard of any course of action that could speed it up as I think they're quite backlogged already. Unfortunately, many of the regular posters here have already gotten themselves up to speed on the legal obligations of all parties and thus avoid any hassle with the PRTB in the first place and so our knowledge of the process is from second hand reports, particularly in cases of errant landlords or problem tenants like your own situation.

The information is thin on the ground so it's always useful to have accounts such as yours to keep our own advise relevant. To that end I hope you keep us updated, and we can give advice where appropriate.

drumswan

Maddylicious wrote: »

If they did a course I wouldnt have acted any differently because I did everything by their guidelines. Any such course laying out their recommendations would land me in the same situation anyway.

You told them they could stay after the 28 day eviction notice period. So not exactly.