Tenant won't leave & filed dispute with PRTB

godtabh

D3PO wrote: »

No its not. Well done on picking a random figure out of your arse though.

Thats got about as much weight as me saying not paying your bus fare will cost you €5,000

Maybe go review some tribunal awards for illegal eviction and see the varied awards based on circumstance rather than spouting crap.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Maybe I should have praised it as upto €20,000 but the point still stands

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/tenants-who-stop-paying-rent-can-live-free-for-18-months-30452306.html

twogunkid

godtabh wrote: »

Maybe I should have praised it as upto €20,000 but the point still stands

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/tenants-who-stop-paying-rent-can-live-free-for-18-months-30452306.html

I really think you should read the relevant legislation thoroughly.
If possible push the moving back in line .
Also have you contacted social welfare to advise them that the rent cheques they are paying are not being used for the purpose it was provided.

The word FRAUD comes to mind !!

D3PO

yep but up to is not realy a fair representation on reality.

Likewise the up to fines for bus fare evasion or tv licence evasion rately ever hit the higher points on the scale of financial penalties.

The fact is in most circumstances the awards are signifacntly less than this.

Gatling

twogunkid wrote: »

Also have you contacted social welfare to advise them that the rent cheques they are paying are not being used for the purpose it was provided.

The word FRAUD comes to mind !!

welfare don't get involved it's not fraud to them .

There is no contract between social welfare and the landlord.

Welfare will see it as a civil dispute

NewCorkLad

Gatling wrote: »

welfare don't get involved it's not fraud to them .

There is no contract between social welfare and the landlord.

Welfare will see it as a civil dispute

If people are receiving rent supplement from social welfare, surely it is fraud if they do not use it for that purpose?

Mr_Red

Gatling wrote: »

welfare don't get involved it's not fraud to them .

There is no contract between social welfare and the landlord.

Welfare will see it as a civil dispute

I dont think this is correct

OP You can contact welfare and tell them the family are receiving rent supplements but are not paying rent

By highlighting this you can get their rent supplements stopped and they can be audited

doubter

NewCorkLad wrote: »

If people are receiving rent supplement from social welfare, surely it is fraud if they do not use it for that purpose?

It is. An ex of mine made that discovery when he ceased to pay his part of the rent with the rent supplement.Welfare found out, stopped the payments and requested a refund for all checks issued

SpaceTime

SpaceTime wrote: »

The PRTB really should do an online course in how to be a landlord.
Too many people are going in with their eyes shut.

The problem is that tenants have far too much protection in these situations. If tenants are not paying rent and have been given notice to get out then after the notice period expires it should be possible to throw them out on their ear and change the locks. They are essentially squatting.

foggy_lad wrote: »

You are not allowed to call to the house every day as you suggested because even though you have given the tenants notice they are still "living" in the house and are still entitled to peaceful enjoyment of the property.

Reading things like this show how skewed the rules are. They should certainly not be entitled to peaceful enjoyment of someone else's property when staying in it and not paying rent. It is essentially theft.

twogunkid

doubter wrote: »

It is. An ex of mine made that discovery when he ceased to pay his part of the rent with the rent supplement.Welfare found out, stopped the payments and requested a refund for all checks issued

Put all the facts on paper and send in your report to welfare and make sure you keep to the facts. This could make it difficult to get rent allowance again. Ask welfare would they report the fraud of receiving rent allowance to the Gardai and not passing it on. ( you could do this yourself anyway ) You could offer to go as a witness. You could make a report of welfare fraud to Social which I believe they would have to investigate. They will have to return all the cheques you have not received also this may cause welfare to call to her and she might feel a bit of heat coming on and leave. You could keep calling welfare every week or 10 days to see if they were doing anything about it. Just a suggestion. Sorry for your situation

Alternatively advise them that you intend to do the above---and see if that alters the attitude. If it does- and they leave --rat them out anyway

WHEN U HAVE EM BY THE BALLS THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS WILL FOLLOW --Theodore Roosevelt

Nomis21

I sympathise with the OP but I think a new approach is needed here.

These tenants are unemployed and have few resources if they are qualifying for rent allowance. They have been in the property for a few years and moving will be expensive and a big upheaval especially with children.

The suggestions so far of going to PRTB, Social Welfare or Gardai may eventually have a result but could take up to a year to reach resolution.

I will put myself here in the position of being a tenant and reluctant to move knowing that I don't have any money and can probably hold out for a year before anything drastic will force me to move when I will have more funds to make the move. I ask myself what will make me go now? Answer: Money.

Time to make an offer to the tenant. I know it hurts but think about the money already earned from the property and put it down as a business expense. Do it right and through a lawyer and it will be tax deductible.

I'm not saying this is the right thing to do, its just a way out of an impasse that could turn into more stress and legal problems and affect health. This way in a short time the OP will be back in his house and forgotten about the monetary cost in my opinion.

Gatling

twogunkid wrote: »

Put all the facts on paper and send in your report to welfare and make sure you keep to the facts. This could make it difficult to get rent allowance again. Ask welfare would they report the fraud of receiving rent allowance to the Gardai and not passing it on. ( you could do this yourself anyway ) You could offer to go as a witness. You could make a report of welfare fraud to Social which I believe they would have to investigate. They will have to return all the cheques you have not received also this may cause welfare to call to her and she might feel a bit of heat coming on and leave. You could keep calling welfare every week or 10 days to see if they were doing anything about it

Social welfare won't get involved and it isn't fraud .
The tenant gets rent supplement and as long as there in the property welfare will send cheques or lodge the supplement in the tenants bank accounts

mikom

Nomis21 wrote: »

I sympathise with the OP but I think a new approach is needed here.

These tenants are unemployed and have few resources if they are qualifying for rent allowance. They have been in the property for a few years and moving will be expensive and a big upheaval especially with children.

The suggestions so far of going to PRTB, Social Welfare or Gardai may eventually have a result but could take up to a year to reach resolution.

I will put myself here in the position of being a tenant and reluctant to move knowing that I don't have any money and can probably hold out for a year before anything drastic will force me to move when I will have more funds to make the move. I ask myself what will make me go now? Answer: Money.

Time to make an offer to the tenant. I know it hurts but think about the money already earned from the property and put it down as a business expense. Do it right and through a lawyer and it will be tax deductible.

I'm not saying this is the right thing to do, its just a way out of an impasse that could turn into more stress and legal problems and affect health. This way in a short time the OP will be back in his house and forgotten about the monetary cost in my opinion.

Awful idea.
you'd be better off googling the phone number of the A-Team or the Equalizer.

Michael D Not Higgins

Franco Slimy Matchless wrote: »

What a terrible terrible suggestion.

Personally I'd rather pay thousands of euro in a fine for throwing them out and changing the locks than give them a cent.

The fine is awarded as damages to the tenant though isn't it? Or is there a fine on top of damages?

Nomis21

There were those that objected to the release of convicted bombers. That would encourage terrorism they said. The Good Friday agreement was the result.

Reaching agreement encourages others to reach agreement doesn't it?

There are two sides to this argument. We have only heard one side up till now.

The_Conductor

Nomis21 wrote: »

I sympathise with the OP but I think a new approach is needed here.

These tenants are unemployed and have few resources if they are qualifying for rent allowance. They have been in the property for a few years and moving will be expensive and a big upheaval especially with children.

The suggestions so far of going to PRTB, Social Welfare or Gardai may eventually have a result but could take up to a year to reach resolution.

I will put myself here in the position of being a tenant and reluctant to move knowing that I don't have any money and can probably hold out for a year before anything drastic will force me to move when I will have more funds to make the move. I ask myself what will make me go now? Answer: Money.

Time to make an offer to the tenant. I know it hurts but think about the money already earned from the property and put it down as a business expense. Do it right and through a lawyer and it will be tax deductible.

I'm not saying this is the right thing to do, its just a way out of an impasse that could turn into more stress and legal problems and affect health. This way in a short time the OP will be back in his house and forgotten about the monetary cost in my opinion.

This advice is wrong on so many different levels.
So- we end up with a culture where its ok for tenants to not pay their rent (the original issue remember)- and instead of being taken to task- are given a payday by the landlord, in exchange for them agreeing to move.......????

Also- the OP wants the property back to live in it themselves. They have been living with their parents hitherto. The tenant dragging this out- living rent-free in the property- is adding vast additional costs onto the landlord- not least of all, accommodation costs- as the OP will now have to pay to live somewhere else- meanwhile freeloaders are holding the OP's home to ransom.

I will not tolerate discussion of illegal activities in this forum- if you want to give the OP advice on how to deal with the issue- keep it legal- and hinting about possible courses of action, without actually spelling it out- is not allowed either..........

Most of you have been around these parts for long enough- and know the lie of the land- you're not going to get away with discussing illegal activities here.

Nomis21

The_Conductor wrote: »

This advice is wrong on so many different levels.
So- we end up with a culture where its ok for tenants to not pay their rent (the original issue remember)- and instead of being taken to task- are given a payday by the landlord, in exchange for them agreeing to move.......????

Also- the OP wants the property back to live in it themselves. They have been living with their parents hitherto. The tenant dragging this out- living rent-free in the property- is adding vast additional costs onto the landlord- not least of all, accommodation costs- as the OP will now have to pay to live somewhere else- meanwhile freeloaders are holding the OP's home to ransom.

the land- you're not going to get away with discussing illegal activities here.

Nowhere does it say the tenants are not paying the rent. The OP wants the house to live in himself. The tenants also have nowhere to live and no resources.

What is wrong with 'Oiling the Wheels' a little?

mikom

Nomis21 wrote: »

Nowhere does it say the tenants are not paying the rent. The OP wants the house to live in himself. The tenants also have nowhere to live and no resources.

Here.

Maddylicious wrote: »

To cut a long story short I served my tenant with a 14 day notice for arrears

The_Conductor

Nomis21 wrote: »

Nowhere does it say the tenants are not paying the rent. The OP wants the house to live in himself. The tenants also have nowhere to live and no resources.

What is wrong with 'Oiling the Wheels' a little?

Start at the very start of the thread and read along.........

ted1

Nomis21 wrote: »

Nowhere does it say the tenants are not paying the rent.

What is wrong with 'Oiling the Wheels' a little?

The tenant is in arrears, arrears arise as a result of non payment of agreed rent.

Nomis21

mikom wrote: »

Here.

OK thanks Mikom, seems they stopped paying the rent when they got a notice to quit.

Michael D Not Higgins

Nomis21 wrote: »

OK thanks Mikom, seems they stopped paying the rent when they got a notice to quit.

Yeah... No.

Greenmachine

If you haven't increased the rent in the last 12 months. Increase it to the full market rate of the area. Inform the social welfare of this. If the rent is in excess of social welfare limits, social welfare will withdraw their rent allowance.

Gatling

Greenmachine wrote: »

If you haven't increased the rent in the last 12 months. Increase it to the full market rate of the area. Inform the social welfare of this. If the rent is in excess of social welfare limits, social welfare will withdraw their rent allowance.

Unfortunately it doesn't work like that .

The_Conductor

Nomis21 wrote: »

OK thanks Mikom, seems they stopped paying the rent when they got a notice to quit.

Read the very first post in the thread again.
This is not what the OP stated.

Maddylicious

Thanks to everyone for the interest and suggestions. They're all appreciated.

Just to clear it up. The tenant didn't pay me a penny after the 14 day letter but he did pay me one third of the arrears after I served them with the 28 day notice. They also paid for the extra month that I agreed to let them stay as mediated through threshold. They've yet to pay me for this month so if I feel it's not forth coming I will report them to sw. I don't know if this is relevant but I also think they're claiming for more children than they have so I could possibly report them for that while I'm at it.

Their neighbours want them gone too as they're constantly leaving refuse outside their property.

Maddylicious

It's illegal by civil law and the PRTB can impose a fine but as far as I know it's not illegal by common law or if it is the guards won't touch it anyway so an arrest would not be made.

I understand that there are certain things that boards don't want people posting here so I'd ask people to abide by that. If you feel this is effecting what you really want to say then please pm me. Any decision I make in the end will be my own.. I just need this space as an outlet to consider my options.

Thanks again

the_syco

godtabh wrote: »

Damage and arrears is approx €3000. The fine for an illegal eviction is €20,000. Will I get you a calculator?

A landlord may see this as two years rent. Illegal eviction is bad, but landlords really need more rights when it comes to rent arrears.

Beaner1 wrote: »

I have to say I'm uncomfortable with the mods acting like judge and jury on some advice here. Nobody is advising anything criminal and any civil case will be taken on its full merits. It may be cheaper in the long run for a landlord to change the locks.

None of you are legal experts in this field so you really shouldn't have any role in this debate.

If you're not comfortable, log out, and join another site. In the same paragraph of saying "Nobody is advising anything criminal", you advise how to act criminally!

3DataModem

godtabh wrote: »

You havent a clue. The fine could be in the tens of thousands depending on how it is handled.

PRTB are very slow to deal with. I'm a claim in since the 3rd of Jan this year and still not fully sorted.

Yes, but a 10-15k fine to get them out today (and re-rent property) might still work out cheaper than a year more of no rent.

I am really really not advocating this strategy, my advice is to figure out what these tenants want. If they want to move but are intent on stiffing you in the meantime, that's one thing. If they are trying to rip you off by staying rent free as long as possible, that's another.

The_Conductor

The third possibility- they may be in receipt of rent allowance- and are simply unable to find alternate accommodation in the vicinity- and are digging their heels in (and as they're already on notice- have decided not to pay their rent.........)

Often these things are not black and white.........

johnnyskeleton

Maddylicious wrote: »

Rent supplement and non Irish nationals.

Are they still in arrears or did they get back on track when they approved for their welfare payments? If they are claiming rent suppliment and not paying it on, maybe make a complaint to an garda siochana