Regional rates of social welfare and public wages

Permabear · 30-09-2014 12:51am #1

This post has been deleted.

efb · 30-09-2014 12:54am

Isn't the Rent Allowance based on regional variances

yellowlabrador · 30-09-2014 12:55am

I don't agree. Food, general shopping and transport are expensive in rural areas. My life would be a lot cheaper living in a city.

GarIT · 30-09-2014 12:56am

People on social welfare can move for the better quality of life if they choose to.

omicron · 30-09-2014 12:57am

yellowlabrador wrote: »

I don't agree. Food, general shopping and transport are expensive in rural areas. My life would be a lot cheaper living in a city.

I think you underestimate the cost of renting in Dublin. Also food and shopping are no more expensive in rural areas than urban areas.

omicron · 30-09-2014 12:58am

GarIT wrote: »

People on social welfare can move for the better quality of life if they choose to.

Could be significantly harder to find work if you move away from major urban areas though?

GarIT · 30-09-2014 1:05am

omicron wrote: »

Could be significantly harder to find work if you move away from major urban areas though?

Nowhere is perfect, they can live where they choose just like everyone else and take the benefits with the drawbacks.

There are places in (Very Central) London where the rent is easily 100k per year, you don't see people complaining that they can afford to live there and that it is their right to live where they want. Dublin is growing as a city, it is going to get to the point where only the well off can live in the city as it does with all cities. People complaining that they can't afford to live in Dublin city is like complaining that they can't afford a BMW. People should be entitled to habitable accommodation but choosing the location is a luxury that should be earned through hard work.

yellowlabrador · 30-09-2014 1:06am

omicron wrote: »

I think you underestimate the cost of renting in Dublin. Also food and shopping are no more expensive in rural areas than urban areas.

that is only if you live close to shops. and prices are much higher. Also, if you live in a tourist area, you get to pay tourist rates. A trip to town is about 24 euro on the bus.

barney 20v · 30-09-2014 1:08am

Is Dublin no longer part of this republic so??
You want different treatment than all the other 25 counties?

shruikan2553 · 30-09-2014 1:10am

There are more facilities available to you by living in Dublin, or even Galway/Limerick/Cork compared to Donegal. If you want a lower cost of living live in the ass end of nowhere. If you want to leave in a more convenient place then pay more.

doc11 · 30-09-2014 1:11am

omicron wrote: »

I think you underestimate the cost of renting in Dublin. Also food and shopping are no more expensive in rural areas than urban areas.

In rural Ireland there is limited public transport and hence the extra expense of a car/taxi to get about. And shopping can be far more expensive when you have to restrict your groceries to a spar/centra type shop, there's no Aldi or Tesco in Gweedore.

omicron · 30-09-2014 1:13am

yellowlabrador wrote: »

that is only if you live close to shops. and prices are much higher. Also, if you live in a tourist area, you get to pay tourist rates. A trip to town is about 24 euro on the bus.

Lidl, Aldi, Tesco and Dunnes all have universal pricing across the country, so prices aren't any higher unless you choose to shop in convenience stores. Nearly every reasonably sized town in Ireland has one of the above shops. And you can go from Dublin to Cork return by bus for less than €24.

GarIT · 30-09-2014 1:17am

omicron wrote: »

you can go from Dublin to Cork return by bus for less than €24.

Dublin to Cork is a popular route and usually fills buses, local buses to cities on the west usually don't fill and therefore cost more. Why is everyone debating the cost of living anyway, isn't there already comprehensive studies detailing the cost of urban vs rural living?

yellowlabrador · 30-09-2014 1:38am

omicron wrote: »

Lidl, Aldi, Tesco and Dunnes all have universal pricing across the country, so prices aren't any higher unless you choose to shop in convenience stores. Nearly every reasonably sized town in Ireland has one of the above shops. And you can go from Dublin to Cork return by bus for less than €24.

You still need to get to the shops. I'm lucky to have an aldi not too far away. any of the other shops mentioned would mean a minimum 35 mile round trip with no public transport. i'm medically not allowed to drive so unless I can get a spin I'm stuck.

Godge · 30-09-2014 10:02am

GarIT wrote: »

Nowhere is perfect, they can live where they choose just like everyone else and take the benefits with the drawbacks.

There are places in (Very Central) London where the rent is easily 100k per year, you don't see people complaining that they can afford to live there and that it is their right to live where they want. Dublin is growing as a city, it is going to get to the point where only the well off can live in the city as it does with all cities. People complaining that they can't afford to live in Dublin city is like complaining that they can't afford a BMW. People should be entitled to habitable accommodation but choosing the location is a luxury that should be earned through hard work.

London is a good example.

The British Civil Service pays a cost-of-living allowance to those working inside the M25 along the lines suggested by Permabear.

Rightwing · 30-09-2014 10:42am

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Simple answer is no.

The divergence is nowhere near as big as some may like or want to think.

barneystinson · 30-09-2014 10:47am

Godge wrote: »

London is a good example.

The British Civil Service pays a cost-of-living allowance to those working inside the M25 along the lines suggested by Permabear.

Do they pay a premium rate of SW as well?

Godge · 30-09-2014 12:47pm

Rightwing wrote: »

Simple answer is no.

The divergence is nowhere near as big as some may like or want to think.

Reasoned debate as usual. Can you explain in a little more detail?

barneystinson wrote: »

Do they pay a premium rate of SW as well?

Don't know. Remember a union official telling me about it about ten years ago and looked into it then. Haven't checked up on it since.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_weighting

Actually there since 1920.

http://www.dfpni.gov.uk/8.17-london-weighting-allowance.pdf

Two levels of allowance.

Can't find anything on a social welfare allowance.

Rightwing · 30-09-2014 12:54pm

Godge wrote: »

Reasoned debate as usual. Can you explain in a little more detail?

Don't know. Remember a union official telling me about it about ten years ago and looked into it then. Haven't checked up on it since.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_weighting

Actually there since 1920.

http://www.dfpni.gov.uk/8.17-london-weighting-allowance.pdf

Two levels of allowance.

Can't find anything on a social welfare allowance.

That's the problem, there's is absolutely nothing to explain....oh wait there is, house prices in Dublin are rising. :rolleyes: Change welfare rates and PS on the basis of this ?

And when they fall back down what do we do? Change them again? Maybe that's how the PS works, but in the real world, eh no.

ardmacha · 30-09-2014 12:58pm

Rightwing wrote: »

That's the problem, there's is absolutely nothing to explain....oh wait there is, house prices in Dublin are rising. :rolleyes: Change welfare rates and PS on the basis of this ? And when they fall back down what do we do? Change them again? Maybe that's how the PS works, but in the real world, eh no.

It isn't rocket science, if you go this route you index the allowance to the differential in some basket of costs, and it would rise or fall with this basket

Rightwing · 30-09-2014 1:03pm

ardmacha wrote: »

It isn't rocket science, if you go this route you index the allowance to the differential in some basket of costs, and it would rise or fall with this basket

We'd probably need another PPARS for that.

We're not talking about Manhattan here. A small country, small population. Clearly housing is cheaper in west Kerry, than Dublin, but costs probably balance out, e.g they have to pay considerably more to send their children to university etc.

Frank Lee Midere · 30-09-2014 1:08pm

GarIT wrote: »

Nowhere is perfect, they can live where they choose just like everyone else and take the benefits with the drawbacks.

There are places in (Very Central) London where the rent is easily 100k per year, you don't see people complaining that they can afford to live there and that it is their right to live where they want. Dublin is growing as a city, it is going to get to the point where only the well off can live in the city as it does with all cities. People complaining that they can't afford to live in Dublin city is like complaining that they can't afford a BMW. People should be entitled to habitable accommodation but choosing the location is a luxury that should be earned through hard work.

Ack thats rubbish. Dublin is a small little city on the edge of Europe. The whole idea that a city the area of Dublin can't house anybody but the rich is just utter nonsense. The only reason property is high again is government manipulation. If all of the BTLer in default right now had their property seized if would collapse to about 50% of where it is now.

And the idea that the "rich" only live in the centre of cities applies to about 5, or 6 cities worldwide.

Ireland on the other hand is just out of a recession - caused by that kind of nonsense rhetoric about how shure only the rich could expect a 3 bedroomed house in Tallaght - and is going to enter another one if this ridiculous rhetoric continues.

Frank Lee Midere · 30-09-2014 1:08pm

Rightwing wrote: »

We'd probably need another PPARS for that.

We're not talking about Manhattan here. A small country, small population. Clearly housing is cheaper in west Kerry, than Dublin, but costs probably balance out, e.g they have to pay considerably more to send their children to university etc.

Thing is there wasn't much of a Dublin premium prior to the boom. Some areas yes, but not on the whole. Now its apparently destined to be manhattan.

Rightwing · 30-09-2014 1:11pm

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Thing is there wasn't much of a Dublin premium prior to the boom. Some areas yes, but not on the whole. Now its apparently destined to be manhattan.

Yeah, you could hardly make this stuff up.

Godge · 30-09-2014 1:20pm

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Thing is there wasn't much of a Dublin premium prior to the boom. Some areas yes, but not on the whole. Now its apparently destined to be manhattan.

Rightwing wrote: »

Yeah, you could hardly make this stuff up.

This is amazing!!! Most places outside Dublin promote their lower cost of living!!!!

http://www.lookwest.ie/life/

"You won’t find value anywhere else like you do out west. With a significantly lower cost of living than Dublin and several other regions in Ireland, you get so much for your money"

http://www.limerickchamber.ie/limerick/live-and-work/

"The National Competitiveness Council/ ForFas ‘Cost of Doing Business in Ireland 2007’ report benchmarked Limerick as the most cost competitive location in the Republic of Ireland – it is 13% cheaper than Dublin. It is the Regional Cities in Ireland who continue to demonstrate an overall cost advantage against most EU-15/ US locations"

"Commute times to work are much lower than in the rest of the country; two-thirds of the population are in work in less than thirty minutes."

Sleepy · 30-09-2014 4:13pm

It already exists in principle in the private employment market: my job would pay 10-15k less a year in Galway than it does in Dublin.

And perversely, it's the poor who get to live in the capital in Ireland. There's so many of the "most vulnerable" living in the city centre that the rest of us wouldn't want to raise our kids there!

robp · 30-09-2014 6:09pm

yellowlabrador wrote: »

I don't agree. Food, general shopping and transport are expensive in rural areas. My life would be a lot cheaper living in a city.

Whatever about rural areas there is a real and quantifiable difference between Dublin an other Irish cities that is easy to access.

Much of this data is online on sites like numbeo.com

You would need around 3,966.47€ in Dublin to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 3,500.00€ in Cork (assuming you rent in both cities). This calculation uses our Consumer Prices Including Rent Index.

notharrypotter · 30-09-2014 6:21pm

Godge wrote: »

This is amazing!!! Most places outside Dublin promote their lower cost of living!!!!

http://www.lookwest.ie/life/

"You won’t find value anywhere else like you do out west. With a significantly lower cost of living than Dublin and several other regions in Ireland, you get so much for your money"

http://www.limerickchamber.ie/limerick/live-and-work/

"The National Competitiveness Council/ ForFas ‘Cost of Doing Business in Ireland 2007’ report benchmarked Limerick as the most cost competitive location in the Republic of Ireland – it is 13% cheaper than Dublin. It is the Regional Cities in Ireland who continue to demonstrate an overall cost advantage against most EU-15/ US locations"

"Commute times to work are much lower than in the rest of the country; two-thirds of the population are in work in less than thirty minutes."

Pick a large urban area anywhere in the world and then compare the average cost accomodation in the centre with the average cost of accomodation in the suburbs and then compare this with a rural area say 50km from the suburb.

The cost of accomodation typically is at a premium the closer to the centre.

A possible counter balance to this is multi story developments in the inner city areas.

Sadly we are still wedded to the concept of a front and back garden and/or the idylic rural setting.

Admittidly our population is dispersed geographically with a few urban clusters but the country is simply too small to justify any significant premium to be paid.

Regional rates of social welfare and public wages

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