Goodbye Free Water Today's The Last Day

RobertKK

Augmerson wrote: »

Do you live out in the country?

Yes, no public water, no public sewage system, no lighting, no gas pipelines, no proper broadband.

The thing is a lot of people are complaining and saying they pay their taxes for whatever, I pay taxes and get far less than what a person in a town or city gets.
I am use to it, if one wants things like water, sewage system, lighting and so on, one has to pay for it.
One can't say I won't pay because I paid my taxes, they would be depriving themselves and wouldn't have water, a toilet or lighting for example.

I just think paying for water and sewage puts everyone on an equal footing.

josip

PizzamanIRL wrote: »

I've suggested to all my female Facebook friends that we shower together from tomorrow onwards so we can save water. So far none of them seem to want to go along with it. Must be nice for some people to have the money to splash out on water like that.

Probably don't have their meters installed yet. try again in Q1 next year

josip

RobertKK wrote: »

... I pay taxes and get far less than what a person in a town or city gets...

Stop complaining, you get a trip to Dublin every September.

Augmerson

RobertKK wrote: »

Yes, no public water, no public sewage system, no lighting, no gas pipelines, no proper broadband.

The thing is a lot of people are complaining and saying they pay their taxes for whatever, I pay taxes and get far less than what a person in a town or city gets.
I am use to it, if one wants things like water, sewage system, lighting and so on, one has to pay for it.
One can't say I won't pay because I paid my taxes, they would be depriving themselves and wouldn't have water, a toilet or lighting for example.

I just think paying for water and sewage puts everyone on an equal footing.

Well, I'm not getting smart, but it is your choice to live in the countryside. Don't get me wrong, you are entitled to live where you like and I wouldn't begrudge your choice. Countryside is peaceful. It might not have public street lighting, internet access, water or sewage (the last two are embarrassing, you have a right to those I think) but the road and electricity do reach you. A consideration for a country like Ireland to think of is people living outside of the towns and villages actually cost extra to the average taxpayer as their homes are away from the main areas.

If we all lived closer together it would probably be cheaper and easier to deliver services.

Not2Good

fleet_admiral wrote: »

I have no meter so I pay an assessed charge. No point in me filling the bath

Yeah, The people of Ireland got hood-winked again... and again...and again...

Not2Good

Surprised by the variety of posts... Im only catching up now, hopefully fairness prevails after today...

The Th!ng

The travellers living at several halting sites in my locality have their rubbish collected for free each week by the local council (even though said council does not operate any household bin collection) so I assume they will not be paying for water either.

ressem

D'oh, the water shortage, tis all our fault.

unless the meter is being read incorrectly, looks like my pensioner parents are losing a cubic meter per day under their house, and the years water allowance used already.
€200 just to trace the location by the looks of it.

JONJO THE MISER

Not2Good wrote: »

Enjoy the last day of free water. Years ago they always joked 'next they'll be charging you for water

Have my own water scheme, no paying for water for me.

dashcamdanny

Just found out my dishwasher only uses 11L of water per cycle.

As long as I use the shower and toilet at work, I might just get away with paying nothing while not having to wash a dish by hand.


WIN

josip

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Just found out my dishwasher only uses 11L of water per cycle.

As long as I use the shower and toilet at work, I might just get away with paying nothing and not having to wash a dish by hand.


WIN

Best of luck squeezing one out on Monday mornings.
You'll dread the bank holidays.

dashcamdanny

josip wrote: »

Best of luck squeezing one out on Monday mornings.
You'll dread the bank holidays.

McDonalds!!!!

From tomorrow onwards I plan on washing myself and the clothes I wore that day at the same time.

1. Should I wash myself with Ariel and condition with Lenor or should I wash my clothes with radox shower smoothies?

2. Should i dye my clothes with nice and easy or dye my hair with dylon?

Sh1tbag OToole

Augmerson wrote: »

Well, I'm not getting smart, but it is your choice to live in the countryside. Don't get me wrong, you are entitled to live where you like and I wouldn't begrudge your choice. Countryside is peaceful. It might not have public street lighting, internet access, water or sewage (the last two are embarrassing, you have a right to those I think) but the road and electricity do reach you. A consideration for a country like Ireland to think of is people living outside of the towns and villages actually cost extra to the average taxpayer as their homes are away from the main areas.

If we all lived closer together it would probably be cheaper and easier to deliver services.

I'd hate to see street lights in the countryside. They give the place a horrible omnipresent glow and they're fierce ugly unless they are the old school gas lamps that they used back in the day that burnt actual gas. Don't know why people want them so badly in areas where there are none

Geuze

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I'm still really confused about this too. Why can't IW just give a straight answer to a straight question? As it stands, there is absolutely no reason why I should sign their contract.

You don't have to sign it.

There's no place for a signature.

The 176 charge pp is after the allowance.

http://www.water.ie/customer-applications/charges/

Duiske

JapaneseLove wrote: »

My water is free because i live in the countryside. I drilled my own well and paid for my own pump and installation. As did everybody in the countryside.

Unless you're running a maintenance free pump with electricity generated from a DIY wind turbine, then its still costing you money every time you use water. And i'm presuming that at the same time you paid for the well drilling and the pump, you also had to pay for a septic tank and it's installation ? A lot of people with their own wells also have to pay for water treatment equipment and its associated running and maintenance costs. Free water me hole. :rolleyes:

Not2Good

Everyone took it as read that water was paid for through taxation, but to charge per litre is just another stealth tax. The USC introduced costs us far more per year (for most). Nobody batted an eyelid hardly when USC was brought in. Nobody protested when DIRT went up to 41% for all, we just sat back and let it happen. Water Charges were introduced under the guise of eco friendly responsible water usage...

Phoebas

Not2Good wrote: »

Everyone took it as read that water was paid for through taxation, but to charge per litre is just another stealth tax.

It may be unjust. It may even be a bad idea, but its hardly a stealth tax. Quite the opposite - never before have people been more aware about the funding of water services.

Gael23

If you pour concrete over the meter would that stop IW form reading it?

hmmm

Not2Good wrote: »

Everyone took it as read that water was paid for through taxation

Absolutely, particularly those who paid little or no tax. "Someone else should pay for it" is not a sensible way to pay for the services we receive.

RobbingBandit

Freeze it with liquid nitrogen.

jill_valentine

ryanf1 wrote: »

If you pour concrete over the meter would that stop IW form reading it?

It might not be necessary. There's a thread about terrible plumbing work elsewhere on the board that I randomly wound up reading last night, and the latest and most spectacular examples are water metre installations.

Not2Good

Phoebas wrote: »

It may be unjust. It may even be a bad idea, but its hardly a stealth tax. Quite the opposite - never before have people been more aware about the funding of water services.

Govt promises not to increase income taxes and does but levies usc, LPT. Nppr, household charge and water charges on the people of Ireland ie filling the govt coffers. with water charges the govt divert the funding of supply of water elsewhere but Joe Public forced to fund it instead. Stealth tax it is ie a tax in every way but name....

Galwayguy35

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

I'd hate to see street lights in the countryside. They give the place a horrible omnipresent glow and they're fierce ugly unless they are the old school gas lamps that they used back in the day that burnt actual gas. Don't know why people want them so badly in areas where there are none

I've one in front of my house and I think it's great, never have to turn on the yardlight.

Phoebas

Not2Good wrote: »

Govt promises not to increase taxes and does but levies usc, LPT. Nppr, household charge and water charges on the people of Ireland ie filling the govt coffers. with water charges the govt divert the funding of supply of water elsewhere but Joe Public forced to fund it instead. Stealth tax it is ie a tax in every way but name....

Nope. They promised not to increase income tax rates favouring other taxes like the property tax.

There's a difference between a misunderstanding on your part and stealth on their part.

Not2Good

Yes income taxes I stand corrected but a stealth tax it is no matter which way you shake it.

Phoebas wrote: »

Nope. They promised not to increase income tax rates favouring other taxes like the property tax.

There's a difference between a misunderstanding on your part and stealth on their part.

cajonlardo

Phoebas wrote: »

Nope. They promised not to increase income tax rates favouring other taxes like the property tax.

There's a difference between a misunderstanding on your part and stealth on their part.

Splitting hairs to say the least.

It is very difficult to remember bigger liars, purer scumbags or worse low lifes than F.G have turned out to be. The fact they had to sack their own JUSTICE minister, the fact Kenny stated that a tax on the family home was immoral before going on to implement that tax, the fact that their members are commonly involved in physical assault, the fact that they connive with Dirty Denis to exhort even more from the poor and already oppressed even after a tribunal stated that he had bribed one of their members, the fact that they cannot or will not pursue their buddies who brought this recession on us all, the fact that they promised to protect essential A & E and then couldn't shut them down fast enough, the sight of the leader of my country being petted like a poodle by a foreign leader, the fact that they stood by while a judge, on a nod and a wink, granted community service instead of jail to their banking buddies. Election won't come around soon enough or maybe it will come sooner than they hope. Either way another gang of pure scumbags will disappear back under their rocks with their rotten pensions. And when one of their rotten hearts give away you will have more pure scum on these threads trying to convince decent people that they were worth a fraction of the air and space they passed through.

tldr - just fcuk off f.g and your supporters

Phoebas

cajonlardo wrote: »

It is very difficult to remember bigger liars, purer scumbags or worse low lifes than F.G have turned out to be.

I dunno about that - I can still remember the government that immediately preceded the current one. The ones that landed the country in bankruptcy leaving FG to clean up the mess.

Some people have shorter memories than I do 'though.

cajonlardo

Phoebas wrote: »

I dunno about that - I can still remember the government that immediately preceded the current one. The ones that landed the country in bankruptcy leaving FG to clean up the mess.

Some people have shorter memories than I do 'though.

Wasn't that the biggest lie of all?

Vote for F.G , we are DIFFERENT from F.F ?

Highflyer13

We are absolutely f**ked in the next election. No one worth voting for. FG have turned out to be a huge disappointment.

Rubberchikken

There is ansolutely no way out of the cycle of chancers that pass for politicians in this country.
Yes f.g. Will be thrown out next general elec and who will the voters bring in but f.f. who are no better no matter who's at the top table.

This country is too small and dublin too tiny and the govt and civil service and the boys in charge to involved with each other to ever see any change come about.

CrazyRabbit

I'd be willing to pay if IW had some competition. At the moment, they have a complete monopoly on water supply and hence they can charge what they want. Monopoly's are NEVER good for the consumer.

And I'd certainly pay if there was a corresponding decrease in other state taxes I pay.
The government uses income from taxes to provide services for the people of Ireland. One of those vital services is being dropped. As such, I expect a decrease in taxes if I now have to go to a private company to obtain that same vital service.

Phoebas

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

I'd be willing to pay if IW had some competition. At the moment, they have a complete monopoly on water supply and hence they can charge what they want. Monopoly's are NEVER good for the consumer.

That's not the case - the CER sets the price.

bladespin

Phoebas wrote: »

That's not the case - the CER sets the price.

And AFIK is the one who looks for PPS nos. as a method of authenticating child allowances.

CrazyRabbit

Phoebas wrote: »

That's not the case - the CER sets the price.

So they have the monopoly on setting prices...same difference. Still no competition, so no incentive to improve efficiency or quality of service.

Just look back to when Eircom had a monopoly on phone service and 'broadband' as they called it.

Not2Good

Phoebas wrote: »

I dunno about that - I can still remember the government that immediately preceded the current one. The ones that landed the country in bankruptcy leaving FG to clean up the mess.

Some people have shorter memories than I do 'though.

FF were bad, FF are worse leaving no credible alternatives ….

The FG legacy will be all of the Stealth taxes like water charges, nppr, USC etc, imposed while patting themselves on the back for not increasing income tax rates.

Phoebas

Not2Good wrote: »

The FG legacy will be all of the Stealth taxes like water charges, nppr, USC etc, imposed while patting themselves on the back for not increasing income tax rates.

And also lots of cuts to services. They'll also be remembered for that.

The rescue of the sovereign state will be soon forgotten.

FullblownRose

I got my 'application pack' today! A great time wasting excercise they have set for people, who have elderly and young people and people with medical needs..they request documentation to prove these needs, but they don't explain what kind of allowance we may be eligible for after going through the mill to furnish them with said documentation..well, they can whistle! Those are highly personal details that they have no right to ask for, and few people have the time nor the energy to go hither and tither gathering paperwork to prove their elderly family members or relatives with a disability need more water for personal hygiene and the washing of clothing or bedding, than Irish Water consider 'reasonable'

I will not be hassling irish water employees or sticking my foot under a jackhammer and claiming i was assaulted, as some protestors have done, but I won't be complying with any request for the return of forms of any kind and I won't pay for water that is essential for hygiene and health, not will I be told how often I can flush a toilet or how many minutes I can spend in the shower.. The manner in which they are going about it is degrading! If they cut my water supply down to a trickle I will consider taking them to court for depriving me and my household of essential water that has already been paid for, and I will look into suing them for damages for decreased quality of life for my family.

Phoebas

FullblownRose wrote: »

I got my 'application pack' today! A great time wasting excercise they have set for people, who have elderly and young people and people with medical needs..they request documentation to prove these needs, but they don't explain what kind of allowance we may be eligible for after going through the mill to furnish them with said documentation..well, they can whistle! Those are highly personal details that they have no right to ask for, and few people have the time nor the energy to go hither and tither gathering paperwork to prove their elderly family members or relatives with a disability need more water for personal hygiene and the washing of clothing or bedding, than Irish Water consider 'reasonable'

I will not be hassling irish water employees or sticking my foot under a jackhammer and claiming i was assaulted, as some protestors have done, but I won't be complying with any request for the return of forms of any kind and I won't pay for water that is essential for hygiene and health, not will I be told how often I can flush a toilet or how many minutes I can spend in the shower.. The manner in which they are going about it is degrading! If they cut my water supply down to a trickle I will consider taking them to court for depriving me and my household of essential water that has already been paid for, and I will look into suing them for damages for decreased quality of life for my family.

And you'll lose.

bladespin

Phoebas wrote:

The rescue of the sovereign state will be soon forgotten.

Not sure they can be credited with that one either, think our sovereignty is long gone.

FullblownRose

Phoebas wrote: »

And you'll lose.

Maybe, maybe not. If the court was to be made fully aware of the impact on a family with vulnerable elderly and/or kids maybe i would win. I think if people make claims against the owners of public toilets because they got their bum cheek stung by sitting on a toilet seat with bleach, and similar compensation-oriented and ludicrous cases have succeeded, why shouldn't this one win?
Either way the importance of access to water is being undermined here. When people are being dictated to as to what is a reasonable frequency for little kids to use the bathroom per day, there's something wrong.

BoJack Horseman

FullblownRose wrote: »

Maybe, maybe not. If the court was to be made fully aware of the impact on a family with vulnerable elderly and/or kids maybe i would win.

No, you wouldnt.
Contract law doesnt change based on the sob story placed in front of it.

When people are being dictated to as to what is a reasonable frequency for little kids to use the bathroom per day, there's something wrong.

Indeed, it would be a pretty monstrous parent to do that.

FullblownRose

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

No, you wouldnt.
Conrmtract law doesnt change based on the sob stpry placed in front of it.



Indeed, it would be a pretty monstrous parent to do that.

So how do you influence contract law, then? Are you saying you can't, and shouldn't try?

It's not parents that are doing the dictating, that refers to the figures irish water have given r.e allowances for children in the household. those figures cover daily water usage like toilet flushes. obviously parents are unlikely to restrict a childs toilet usage, they will pay, or not, but they won't prevent the child from using the toilet.. but the water company saw fit to cap it and label it a reasonable level of usage. how is that acceptable?! if they're basing their allowances or costing the bills on 'monstrous' principles like that?

BoJack Horseman

FullblownRose wrote: »

So how do you influence contract law, then? Are you saying you can't, and shouldn't try?

By all means, feel free to try.

Just don't expect a positive result as a given.

It's not parents that are doing the dictating,

No one anywhere is dictating how often anyone anywhere can flush the toilet.

You will be hard pressed to find such an order.

FullblownRose

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

By all means, feel free to try.

Just don't expect a positive result as a given.



No one anywhere is dictating how often anyone anywhere can flush the toilet.

You will be hard pressed to find such an order.

Yes, they are dictating in a sense, by alculating (using unknown data) a reasonable level of water consumption which is broken down into categories, obviously this includes all domestic water use i.e toilet flushing, washing, cooking.

You speak, scathingly it seems, of 'sob stories', these are no sob stories, they are practicalities of life. All parents are responsible for ensuring their children are clean, as are carers of elderly parents- there are suposed to be allowances available for such instances where there are medical conditions present, but I'm taking issue with the method of demanding, and making the household obtain and supply the 'proof' of medical needs. Maybe you're unfamiliar with people in those circumstances but it doesn't take a great stretch of the imagination to work out why, say, an alzheimers sufferer might have additional needs when it comes to hygiene. Those are very personal details that families shouldn't be pressed to 'prove'. There's something fundamentally wrong that they will have to do so, especially when we're all already paying for water! In going about it in this way Irish Water are putting extra pressure on households like that and I think it's deeply immoral and repugnant.

BoJack Horseman

FullblownRose wrote: »

Yes, they are dictating in a sense, by alculating (using unknown data) a reasonable level of water consumption which is broken down into categories, obviously this includes all domestic water use i.e toilet flushing, washing, cooking.

You speak, scathingly it seems, of 'sob stories', these are no sob stories, they are practicalities of life. All parents are responsible for ensuring their children are clean, as are carers of elderly parents- there are suposed to be allowances available for such instances where there are medical conditions present, but I'm taking issue with the method of demanding, and making the household obtain and supply the 'proof' of medical needs. Maybe you're unfamiliar with people in those circumstances but it doesn't take a great stretch of the imagination to work out why, say, an alzheimers sufferer might have additional needs when it comes to hygiene. Those are very personal details that families shouldn't be pressed to 'prove'. There's something fundamentally wrong that they will have to do so, especially when we're all already paying for water! In going about it in this way Irish Water are putting extra pressure on households like that and I think it's deeply immoral and repugnant.

You are right.
I don't take issue with providing proof.
It shouldn't be hard to have something proving disability, either from the HSE or DSP and it shouldn't be considered a personal affront asking for this.

ISIS publicly executing hundreds of civilians is immoral & repugnant.
I don't think a utility seeking confirmation of eligibility for discount warrants the same language.

FullblownRose

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

You are right.
I don't take issue with providing proof.
It shouldn't be hard to have something proving disability, either from the HSE or DSP and it shouldn't be considered a personal affront asking for this.

ISIS publicly executing hundreds of civilians is immoral & repugnant.
I don't think a utility seeking confirmation of eligibility for discount warrants the same language.

I'll concede there are degrees of 'bad' when you compare it to beheadings, for goodness sake. However, i consider it a degrading imposition by any standards.
In the pack I have been given, there's no detail about the allowances, which there should be. eople have a right to know what kind of charges they are facing before they scurry off to get official confirmation of their households personal circumstances. I am not impressed at all. An 'allowance', so for example an incontinent old person might be 'allowed' to be cleaned up free of charge? A child being toilet trained might get away with going to the loo several times a day? Pfft.

josip

FullblownRose wrote: »

I got my 'application pack' today! A great time wasting excercise they have set for people, who have elderly and young people and people with medical needs..they request documentation to prove these needs, but they don't explain what kind of allowance we may be eligible for after going through the mill to furnish them with said documentation..well, they can whistle! Those are highly personal details that they have no right to ask for, and few people have the time nor the energy to go hither and tither gathering paperwork to prove their elderly family members or relatives with a disability need more water for personal hygiene and the washing of clothing or bedding, than Irish Water consider 'reasonable'

I will not be hassling irish water employees or sticking my foot under a jackhammer and claiming i was assaulted, as some protestors have done, but I won't be complying with any request for the return of forms of any kind and I won't pay for water that is essential for hygiene and health, not will I be told how often I can flush a toilet or how many minutes I can spend in the shower.. The manner in which they are going about it is degrading! If they cut my water supply down to a trickle I will consider taking them to court for depriving me and my household of essential water that has already been paid for, and I will look into suing them for damages for decreased quality of life for my family.

This post motivated me to go online and register my details just now.
10 minutes from beginning to end including direct debit, paperless billing and nominating them as my next of kin.
The web page is a bit poor. The browser back button bombs you all the way out of the registration process if you press it by mistake, and if there's an error in a field that's off screen, it won't scroll so that it's visible.
So I could have finished it in about 6 mins.

FullblownRose

josip wrote: »

This post motivated me to go online and register my details just now.
10 minutes from beginning to end including direct debit, paperless billing and nominating them as my next of kin.
The web page is a bit poor. The browser back button bombs you all the way out of the registration process if you press it by mistake, and if there's an error in a field that's off screen, it won't scroll so that it's visible.
So I could have finished it in about 6 mins.

Good for you, I'm glad I motivated you into paying a bill you have no issue with paying (twice). *Slap on the back*

josip

FullblownRose wrote: »

Good for you, I'm glad I motivated you into paying a bill you have no issue with paying (twice). *Slap on the back*

As a business owner, my business has been funding the provision of water services in my local authority area since 1999.
I'm very happy that it will now change to a fair, "user pays" system, instead of the less fair, "businesses pay for all types of users" system.