Season 14/15 Banter thread

cormee

Bogwoppit wrote: »

That does look like a very good policy, the premier plus option seems like excellent value.

Yes, that's the one I got, the equipment cover on the other options aren't great.

AlternateID

I use the multitrip thing plus I have the e111 card. Called something else now. When I did the wrist all they wanted to know was if I had an E111.

man_no_plan

AlternateID wrote: »

I use the multitrip thing plus I have the e111 card. Called something else now. When I did the wrist all they wanted to know was if I had an E111.

EHIC. apply online ehic.ie if you've lost your card get a replacement certificate online and have it stamped in local health office. With some policies you can avoid the excess if you produce the card.

I keep it in the pocket with my lift pass cos if I do go tits up it'll most likely be on the slopes. No point having it sitting pretty on the locker beside the bed!

Fattes

Warning about the multi trip the off piste cover has many caveats!!

I am covered due to my qualifications in most areas but, a normal holiday skier they have plenty of loopholes to work around.

Most resorts in France, and Switzerland offer insurance with the lift pass take it, worth it

Dr Nic

what grade did ye get with multitrip? assume grade1 with winter sports is ok?

you can only get an ehic card if youve a medical card which i dont have. im going on a ucpa off piste course next week and for once they didnt offer insurance. i think ill still get the multitrip stuff...

cormee

Fattes wrote: »

Warning about the multi trip the off piste cover has many caveats!!

I am covered due to my qualifications in most areas but, a normal holiday skier they have plenty of loopholes to work around.

Most resorts in France, and Switzerland offer insurance with the lift pass take it, worth it

This is the reply they sent me in Twitter when I asked did it cover off piste:

"Hi there, yes the policy covers off piste skiing except in areas designates as unsafe by local resort management unless you are ... accompanied by a locally qualified guide! Hope this answers your question!!"

Sounds fine to me.

Bogwoppit

cormee wrote: »

This is the reply they sent me in Twitter when I asked did it cover off piste:

"Hi there, yes the policy covers off piste skiing except in areas designates as unsafe by local resort management unless you are ... accompanied by a locally qualified guide! Hope this answers your question!!"

Sounds fine to me.

The only problem I can see here is what is unsafe, if you look at the avalanche risk scale then 2 or above could be deemed unsafe in their eyes.

cormee

Bogwoppit wrote: »

The only problem I can see here is what is unsafe, if you look at the avalanche risk scale then 2 or above could be deemed unsafe in their eyes.

Well it's what's deemed unsafe by management, not by Multitrip, so if you heed resort warnings you'll be fine.

Rew

cormee wrote: »

This is the reply they sent me in Twitter when I asked did it cover off piste:

"Hi there, yes the policy covers off piste skiing except in areas designates as unsafe by local resort management unless you are ... accompanied by a locally qualified guide! Hope this answers your question!!"

Sounds fine to me.

I think the resorts consider anything off a marked piste to be dangerous so you wouldn't be covered without a guide

cormee

Rew wrote: »

I think the resorts consider anything off a marked piste to be dangerous so you wouldn't be covered without a guide

I would have thought that means it applies to anywhere with an avalanche warning. I will tweet them back and ask.

... tweet sent, stay tuned.

Fattes

cormee wrote: »

Well it's what's deemed unsafe by management, not by Multitrip, so if you heed resort warnings you'll be fine.

Anything that is not patrolled or maintained, and with any avalanche risk greater than 2 would see your cover voided! Also, you would have to prove that the area was safe, post accident! A very difficult thing to do after you have creamed yourself there

prunudo

Dr Nic wrote: »

what grade did ye get with multitrip? assume grade1 with winter sports is ok?

you can only get an ehic card if youve a medical card which i dont have. im going on a ucpa off piste course next week and for once they didnt offer insurance. i think ill still get the multitrip stuff...

They must have changed the rules as I don't have a medical card but have had a ehic for years. I'd double check that as I thought it was available to all EU citizens.

zagmund

You definitely don't need a medical card for EHIC.

z

man_no_plan

From www.ehic.ie

The European Health Insurance Card or EHIC (formerly the E111 form) allows the holder to access health care services when travelling to or on holiday in another EU or EEA country. Choose from the options below to learn more, or to find out how to apply.

Remember - there IS NO CHARGE for the EHIC card, it is a free public service. Anyone asking for money IS NOT CONNECTED with the HSE.

More infohere

They are a no brainer to carry

fannymagee

Just renewed the aul' health insurance there now, thanks for the reminder guys!

a148pro

covers off piste except in areas designated as unsafe by resort operators. Couldn't consider all off piste unsafe in these circumstances.

Don't ask them to confirm that skiing off piste at avalanche risk 2 is not covered! That's just encouraging them to downgrade and potentially reducing your cover by putting you on notice that you're not covered. The vaguer the Policy the better from our perspective. We're consumers, they're a company providing a regulated service to consumers, the vagueness would be interpreted in our favour.

fannymagee

VHI Multi-trip don't cover recreational racing. I wish I didn't know that ;-)

Fattes

a148pro wrote: »

covers off piste except in areas designated as unsafe by resort operators. Couldn't consider all off piste unsafe in these circumstances.

Don't ask them to confirm that skiing off piste at avalanche risk 2 is not covered! That's just encouraging them to downgrade and potentially reducing your cover by putting you on notice that you're not covered. The vaguer the Policy the better from our perspective. We're consumers, they're a company providing a regulated service to consumers, the vagueness would be interpreted in our favour.

Yes you can, because resorts operators in Europe consider everything beyond the piste markers as "At your own risk" they do not parol or maintain it. Does not matter how vague the policy is the conversation will be, Are you trained or do you have education in relation to the resort conditions or the are you were in at the time of the accident, No, Where you with someone who was, No. Dear Resort did you designate this area safe, No we are only responsible for the piste! You lose!!

Also most policies have a set number of days per season or consecutive number you are covered for !

cormee

Fattes wrote: »

Yes you can, because resorts operators in Europe consider everything beyond the piste markers as "At your own risk" they do not parol or maintain it. Does not matter how vague the policy is the conversation will be, Are you trained or do you have education in relation to the resort conditions or the are you were in at the time of the accident, No, Where you with someone who was, No. Dear Resort did you designate this area safe, No we are only responsible for the piste! You lose!!

Also most policies have a set number of days per season or consecutive number you are covered for !

They specifically say they cover you off piste, so what exactly do you think they are talking talking about when they say that?

Also, the resort doesn't have to designate the area safe for you to be covered, they have to designate it unsafe for you not to be covered, big difference.

Fattes

cormee wrote: »

They specifically say they cover you off piste, so what exactly do you think they are talking talking about when they say that?

Also, the resort doesn't have to designate the area safe for you to be covered, they have to designate it unsafe for you not to be covered, big difference.

It is impossible to meet their definition of deemed safe in EU Resorts outside of Itinerary runs.

Once there is an avalanche risk, it can be deemed as unsafe, which all off piste will have, and again Resorts do not do anything with off piste in Europe, so they will deem everything past a piste marker as "At your own risk" therefore the do not give an opinion on weather it is safe or not, all your insurance needs to do is get one local expert to illustrate a natural hazard or an aspect of the area they deem to be unsafe and you have zero chance of a claim. You have no way to show it was deemed safe, none.

Trust me I have liability insurance to take guests off piste, I know the workings of both resorts and insurance co all to well. To the point that of it's L4 now a lot of instructors stay on very mild terrain sub 20 degrees or not going off piste at all.

Even the Swiss have issued new regulations in relation to off piste and who can and can't teach and where.

The reality is if you are not qualified and don't know the area, especially in the EU any insurance company will have a lawyer and a case to prove some hazard or danger was present.

The difference with multi trip -V-VHI multi trip cover you for in Bounds off piste in N.America and Itinerary runs in the EU (Patrolled and controlled but not groomed and off piste) the VHI don't or didn't last time I checked.What multi trip are doing is providing low level cover for piste side accidents or areas very close to a piste AND Itinerary and controlled in bounds off piste.

cormee

Fattes wrote: »

It is impossible to meet their definition of deemed safe in EU Resorts outside of Itinerary runs.

Once there is an avalanche risk, it can be deemed as unsafe, which all off piste will have, and again Resorts do not do anything with off piste in Europe, so they will deem everything past a piste marker as "At your own risk" therefore the do not give an opinion on weather it is safe or not, all your insurance needs to do is get one local expert to illustrate a natural hazard or an aspect of the area they deem to be unsafe and you have zero chance of a claim. You have no way to show it was deemed safe, none.

Trust me I have liability insurance to take guests off piste, I know the workings of both resorts and insurance co all to well. To the point that of it's L4 now a lot of instructors stay on very mild terrain sub 20 degrees or not going off piste at all.

Even the Swiss have issued new regulations in relation to off piste and who can and can't teach and where.

The reality is if you are not qualified and don't know the area, especially in the EU any insurance company will have a lawyer and a case to prove some hazard or danger was present.

The difference with multi trip -V-VHI multi trip cover you for in Bounds off piste in N.America and Itinerary runs in the EU (Patrolled and controlled but not groomed and off piste) the VHI don't or didn't last time I checked.What multi trip are doing is providing low level cover for piste side accidents or areas very close to a piste AND Itinerary and controlled in bounds off piste.

So what you're saying is, Multitrip are making this up? They're saying they're selling off-piste cover when they're actually not? They're advertising and selling a product that they don't cover? They're basically lying to everyone?

Fattes wrote: »

therefore the do not give an opinion on weather it is safe or not, all your insurance needs to do is get one local expert to illustrate a natural hazard or an aspect of the area they deem to be unsafe and you have zero chance of a claim. You have no way to show it was deemed safe, none.

No, they don't have to deem it safe, you're correct, but they do have to deem it unsafe, and as I said above, there's a big difference.

Your insurance doesn't need to "get a local expert to illustrate a natural hazard" Multitrip have said repeatedly that resort management have to deem it unsafe to negate your cover, again there's a big difference. If there was no warning from the management relating to the area you had your accident in, on the day you had your accident, your local expert is going to be wasting his time turning up to court.

And to address your last point, you don't have to show it was deemed safe, they have to show it was deemed unsafe.

Tweet from Multitrip: "Multitrip.com ‏@MultitripCover 13h13 hours ago
If local resort management designate the area as unsafe, you're not covered skiing there unless with a locally qualified guide."

Fattes

OK I will repeat myself and try again

No ski resort in Europe will offer an opinion in anything outside of their piste markers it is automatically deemed UNSAFE and AT YOUR OWN RISK, once you leave the piste markers in all European resorts. Resort management have no responsibility or do they ever deem areas unsafe, THERE IS A PERMANENT ASSUMPTION THEY ARE UNSAFE . Next time you are at a lift office find the sign with T&C's you will see it in black and white. Or black and yellow.

The only exemption to the above is Avalanche terrain that could cause a danger to piste & are not part of the resort. These tend to be marked as permanently closed areas, due to the risk.

What multi trip sell is a product that covers Itinerary runs in European resorts and In bounds controlled terrain that is not groomed in N.America, or off piste with a guide. Both (excluding Guide bit) are deemed safe by resort management! For backcountry (USA) or off Piste in Europe (outside piste markers) it is automatically assumed as not safe. In the case of the guided off piste multi trip are unique in what they offer and it's an excellent product.

But the again as someone who is qualified to teach of piste in every Alpine country but France my grasp of the law is obviously not relevant here!!!

zagmund

How's about we all take the beer gloves off and leave this thread for banter sort of stuff, with technical discussions in their own thread where people will find them more easily. This thread is starting to look like some of those "bargain alert" threads which started in 2009 with a good value computer and have kept going with hundreds of pages of comments but nobody can ever find anything in them because it's so long.

Here's my contribution - 1 month to go to Kitzbuhel, yaaaay.

z

cormee

Fattes wrote: »

OK I will repeat myself and try again

No ski resort in Europe will offer an opinion in anything outside of their piste markers it is automatically deemed UNSAFE and AT YOUR OWN RISK, once you leave the piste markers in all European resorts. Resort management have no responsibility or do they ever deem areas unsafe, THERE IS A PERMANENT ASSUMPTION THEY ARE UNSAFE . Next time you are at a lift office find the sign with T&C's you will see it in black and white. Or black and yellow.

The only exemption to the above is Avalanche terrain that could cause a danger to piste & are not part of the resort. These tend to be marked as permanently closed areas, due to the risk.

What multi trip sell is a product that covers Itinerary runs in European resorts and In bounds controlled terrain that is not groomed in N.America, or off piste with a guide. Both (excluding Guide bit) are deemed safe by resort management! For backcountry (USA) or off Piste in Europe (outside piste markers) it is automatically assumed as not safe. In the case of the guided off piste multi trip are unique in what they offer and it's an excellent product.

But the again as someone who is qualified to teach of piste in every Alpine country but France my grasp of the law is obviously not relevant here!!!

So ... Multitrip.com are making this up? They're saying they're selling off-piste cover when they're actually not covering people for off-piste? They're advertising and selling a product that they don't cover? Is that what you're saying? In the interest of keeping this discussion as brief as possible, just a yes or no will do.

cormee

zagmund wrote: »

How's about we all take the beer gloves off and leave this thread for banter sort of stuff, with technical discussions in their own thread where people will find them more easily. This thread is starting to look like some of those "bargain alert" threads which started in 2009 with a good value computer and have kept going with hundreds of pages of comments but nobody can ever find anything in them because it's so long.

What are "beer gloves"?

I'd actually like to find out about off-piste insurance, as I was under the impression I had bought it, now someone on the internet has told me I haven't.

Fattes

zagmund wrote: »

How's about we all take the beer gloves off and leave this thread for banter sort of stuff, with technical discussions in their own thread where people will find them more easily. This thread is starting to look like some of those "bargain alert" threads which started in 2009 with a good value computer and have kept going with hundreds of pages of comments but nobody can ever find anything in them because it's so long.

Here's my contribution - 1 month to go to Kitzbuhel, yaaaay.

z

This is important, there is a cast iron definitive position on off piste in Europe and it's classification attempting to mislead or muddy the waters is not something anyone should be encouraging. Also most insurance companies will enforce a holy trinity clause for off piste.

As for Kitzbul friend skiing there today says conditions are best in the area, but it needs more snow. He said weather was lovely & the beer was cold though

zagmund

Fattes wrote: »

This is important, there is a cast iron definitive position on off piste in Europe and it's classification attempting to mislead or muddy the waters is not something anyone should be encouraging. Also most insurance companies will enforce a holy trinity clause for off piste.

As for Kitzbul friend skiing there today says conditions are best in the area, but it needs more snow. He said weather was lovely & the beer was cold though

I know it's important, that's why I think it deserves a thread of its own and not to get lost in a 42 (so far) page thread about general 2015 season stuff.

z

zagmund

cormee wrote: »

What are "beer gloves"?

I'd actually like to find out about off-piste insurance, as I was under the impression I had bought it, now someone on the internet has told me I haven't.

A bit like beer goggles, except they are used for fighting on the internet. Although beer may not always be involved. I know I've had some.

z

cormee

zagmund wrote: »

A bit like beer goggles, except they are used for fighting on the internet. Although beer may not always be involved. I know I've had some.

z

I haven't been drinking, only just in from the gym and waiting for my legs to calm down before heading to bed.

Fattes

cormee wrote: »

Tweet from Multitrip: "Multitrip.com ‏@MultitripCover 13h13 hours ago
If local resort management designate the area as unsafe, you're not covered skiing there unless with a locally qualified guide."

When you go wherever you are going hopefully somewhere snowy, find the T&C's of your lift pass (may be available on line) it will contain something along the lines of
"the ski are is marked patrolled and controlled, if you choose to leave that are you do so at your own risk and the resort can not Guarantee the area is free from risk, natural hazards or safe"

There is your insurance companies get out of jail card, it's standard accepted definition in Europe that all off piste is dangerous/ unsafe and at your own risk.

Secondly they will check the Avi risk for the day you were skiing and ask did you have a Transceiver, shovel and probe and are you trained to use them. If the answer is No they again can show it was unsafe to be in the area/ the area was unsafe. They sell a product designed to cover Itinerary runs and in bounds N.American off piste

As I said their policy is really good and something I would recommend, but it had it's limitations and as good as Blue insurance are, they are an insurance co and like to make money!