If the Soviet Union never fell, would the world be better or worse?

Yogosan

DazMarz wrote: »

Communism: great idea in theory... absolutely appalling in practice.

Some of our most valued institutions are run on communist principles. Healthcare, education, social housing, water (perhaps not for long, I wonder if the quality improves under 'capitalism'). All communist ideals. Pure communism is of course a bad idea, but some of the ideas are great. Similarly if a country ran on purely capitalist ideals, the country wouldn't be long crumbling either. That doesn't make capitalism appaling in practice either though, it's just a matter of balance.

There are clearly still remnants from the Cold War propaganda campaign which sought to demonise communism back in the day. Looked at objectively, communism (community) has helped a great deal of people, especially in Ireland.

correa cristobal

Yogosan wrote: »

Some of our most valued institutions are run on communist principles. Healthcare, education, social housing. All communist.

Might you be confusing socialism with communism? It'd be a common mistake. Communism is a more radical doctrine, though both share some things.

(I'm from Venezuela, so I know first hand what a poor attempt at both/either is, and for that matter, I'm convinced the world is better off without any commies).

RobbingBandit

Given the relationship between George H Bush and Gorbachev if the USSR had not fallen Bush would have got a second term in office and his son Dubya would have succeeded him in 1996 rather than Clinton and Putin would have attained power in 1998/2000 leading to WW3 rather than 9/11 in 2001.

Yogosan

correa cristobal wrote: »

Might you be confusing socialism with communism? It'd be a common mistake. Communism is a more radical doctrine, though both share some things.

(I'm from Venezuela, so I know first hand what a poor attempt at both/either is, and for that matter, I'm convinced the world is better off without any commies).

Some of the communist ideals are great. The mistake Russia made was trying to implement communism everywhere. I guess you are right, socialism might be a more apt description, but there is no denying that communsim contained some good ideas which have found there way into many progressive societies. Just leave out the 'ownership of everything' part and certain aspects work very well.

I mainly got the definition of socialism and communism mixed up here. But they are fairly similar in their goals.

Hold the Cheez Whiz

Yogosan wrote: »

Some of the communist ideals are great. The mistake Russia made was trying to implement communism everywhere. I guess you are right, socialism might be a more apt description, but there is no denying that communsim contained some good ideas which have found there way into many progressive societies. Just leave out the 'ownership of everything' part and certain aspects work very well.

Like what?

I mainly got the definition of socialism and communism mixed up here. But they are fairly similar in their goals.

No they aren't and more than anyone else, Marx drew a clear distinction between what we think of as social democratic states and what a communist state would look like.

Yogosan

Hold the Cheez Whiz wrote: »

Like what?

Catering to peoples needs, instead of for profit.
Taking care of the most vulnerable in society.
Free education for all children (sound familiar).
Distrust of capitalism (Obviously outright rejection of capitalism is a bad idea).

No they aren't and more than anyone else, Marx drew a clear distinction between what we think of as social democratic states and what a communist state would look like.

I will have to educate myself further in this area.

Augmerson

Londyn Glamorous Spring wrote: »

The best thing that happened in the 20th century was the destruction of the "evil empire", the USSR. Thank you JP II. Thank you Reagan.

If you are going to thank anyone thank Jimmy Carter for his grain embargo, blocking Soviet oil exports to western Europe and the cheap price of oil during this period. Reagan just happened to be there when the old horse finally buckled.

Cienciano

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

The parents and two surviving grandparents of my current girlfriend grew up in the former East Germany. Every conversation I've had with them about the era is one filled with talk about stupidity, jealousy and pettiness. They received a TV in 1982 that was tuned exclusively into the state television extolling the virtues of socialism. Two days later they had the rabbit ears necessary to get the fuzzy pictures of TV broadcast from 'West Germany'. In return for cigarettes.

Couple more years of it. I find myself in on a holiday in Cuba with herself. Same old rubbish. Same anger, resentment and hopelessness. At least they have the weather. If you ever want to truly understand the complete tyranny of socialism then I'd suggest you dudes hop on a flight over there. From the airport of a beautiful and unquestioning social democracy.

Mate of mine is going out with an east german. Her parents were saying that they were on a 10 year waiting list for a Trabant.
Yeah, the good old days of communism.

Hold the Cheez Whiz

Yogosan wrote: »

Catering to peoples needs, instead of for profit.
Taking care of the most vulnerable in society.
Free education for all children (sound familiar).
Distrust of capitalism (Obviously outright rejection of capitalism is a bad idea).

Those aren't specifically communist principles - they are actually quite consistent with centuries-old religious teachings. And free education seems to be more a function of development than simple ideology.

Son Of A Vidic

ScumLord wrote: »

If the soviet union didn't dissolve they'd probably be much poorer. It was a failed system that was imploding. They'd more than likely be rightly screwed by now.

True but they may have also eventually adopted the Chinese model. One of flagrant capitalism that is controlled by the Party. The undermining and ousting of Gorbachev, means we'll probably never know how it would have panned out.

AllGunsBlazing

Iranoutofideas wrote: »

What about this guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zXiClnK8oE

The sight and sound of that man greeting me as I entered the 'free world' would have been enough to have me scampering back over the wall into communism's cold embrace.